Smoke Or Not To Smoke

[bunny67]

I am a smoker and from 2/5/07 in wales , smoking was banned in all public indoor spaces ,this also comes into effect 1/7/07 in england ,scotland started theres last year. Do you think pubs and clubs will lose out and end up closing? smokers i know say they wont bother going for a pint now and will drink at home so they can smoke in peace and outside the pubs the pavements are full of people running out for a quick fix blocking the pathway of ordinary pedestrians , the floors are littered with fag ends which dnt look good and extra road sweepers and health police are being employed .People are saying the goverment will lose millions of pounds so will taxs go up ? Do you agree with this move? Are you a smoker who feels persecuted by the new legislation? Or do you welcome it as a healthy step for society? Have your say.

[thewizeard]

I thought the Welsh prefered sheep..anyway...

[bunny67]

I thought the Welsh prefered sheep..anyway...only the men folk not us women;)

[thewizeard]

haha :) nice one

[Hairbautt]

I am a smoker.That's disgusting. Especially for women. http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v383/Hairbautt/Smilies/Ranting.gif So...stop.

[seh]

I am a smoker.That's disgusting. Especially for women. http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v383/Hairbautt/Smilies/Ranting.gif So...stop.

I agree! i quit smoking almost 5 years ago!:01:

[safa]

I am glad this ban is coming into effect, stops me from breathing other people focking smoke and why should i have to suffer because of their bad habits, if you wanna kill yourself dont take me down with you. Stopping will save you a small fortune also and you may see your kids grow old too :)

[Gripper]

What ever happened tofree will ffs?

[MediaSlayer]

i think it's very strange that these smoking bans should be happening simultaneously(sp.?) in many parts of the world around the same time frame. what freedoms will we lose next? how about, the whole world has to conform to a dress code, would that be suitable?

[Hairbautt]

Smoking is just stupid.

[JPaul]

what freedoms will we lose next? how about, the whole world has to conform to a dress code, would that be suitable?

Passive dressing, that would be a bad thing.

Smoke if you want, just don't make other people do it as well. In fact it's even better than that, the smoke from the lit end doesn't even go thro' the filter, so more tar and poisons.

[safa]

what freedoms will we lose next? how about, the whole world has to conform to a dress code, would that be suitable?

Yip we are all gonna be stripped and forced to wear borat clothes

http://img148.imageshack.us/img148/8025/boratws3.jpg

You like :lol:

[Bucktoof]

Here in Vancouver, Canada, they banned smoking I think too a little while ago. They are even looking to ban in some public outdoor places as well.

Personally, I don't smoke and I can't stand the smell of cigarettes. It's fine for people to smoke in my opinion but I don't want to have to smell that stuff. Some smokers are good about it - they go find places to smoke where they won't bother other people. However, too many stand in the centre of bus shelters, outside buildings by the entrances or by vents, etc.

[vidcc]

outside the pubs the pavements are full of people running out for a quick fix blocking the pathway of ordinary pedestrians , the floors are littered with fag ends which dnt look good and extra road sweepers and health police are being employed

Hmm... perhaps the authorities should enter all those establishments and issue "litterbug" fines to all the smokers, doesn't matter if they were seen littering as they are a sharing bunch. They complain they are not being allowed to share their smoke so they should be more than happy to share the litterbug fine as a compromise :shifty: ;)

Extra employment??????? I've heard the ban will increase unemployment. :unsure:

Private member only clubs that don't have open door policies should get an exemption though.

[JPaul]

Here in Vancouver, Canada, they banned smoking I think too a little while ago. They are even looking to ban in some public outdoor places as well.

Personally, I don't smoke and I can't stand the smell of cigarettes. It's fine for people to smoke in my opinion but I don't want to have to smell that stuff. Some smokers are good about it - they go find places to smoke where they won't bother other people. However, too many stand in the centre of bus shelters, outside buildings by the entrances or by vents, etc.

In Scotland there are rules about how close to building entrances people can stand. To avoid passive smoking by people either entering or leaving the building. To be honest tho' that seems to be pretty much ignored. Tho' like you say some smokers are more considerate than others.

There are also rules regarding what constitutes an enclosed public space, Often bus shelters would fit into that category, depending on the shape and what percentage of the area is enclosed.

[Mathea]

Everyone said that when they did that ban in ny that bars would lose money etc but it's bs... ppl still go to bars and everyone smokes outside. Period.

[Hairbautt]

Everyone said that when they did that ban in ny that bars would lose money etc but it's bs... ppl still go to bars and everyone smokes outside. Period.
We have the same ban in Florida - no problems.

[peat moss]

We're a dying breed literately , I'm most embarrassed when smoking outside at my boy's sporting events . When helping warm the team up or working the lines I won't smoke and if I must light up during a tight game ,when I not helping the coach I'll move away across the field from the kids and parents .


I quit smoking in the car with the kids but at home I have a computer room where its the only place I smoke . When I visit friends they put an ashtray outside for me if I must . Its called respect and it works both ways .

[pipsta]

I have to disagree with most of you on this one, because im a smoker myself and i believe in free will, actually funny someone should mention the littering thing, because last week my brother went to catch a bus into town and when the bus came he threw his cigarette on the floor (as you do when the bus comes)

Next thing he knows 2 cops are grabbing him and giving him a 80 GBP ($160) On-The-Spot fine :(

He has got 3 children all under the age of 3 (1 is newborn), he doesnt work and the cops have to do something like that, so just for them doing that i tell ya im gonna smoke where ever i feel fit to do so, public place or not, I can see myself getting arrested every week for it (ahh just like the good old days lol)

[Mr JP Fugley]

If you smoke in an enclosed public place you will be fined, or the owner will be fined, or both of you will be fined.

You won't do it, because you won't be allowed to.

I fully support your right to smoke and kill yourself. Please carry on. However you don't have the right to make that choice for other people.

[vidcc]

He has got 3 children all under the age of 3 (1 is newborn), he doesnt work and the cops have to do something like that,

Yet he can afford to smoke and complain if he gets a fine for littering :rolleyes:

[magicrabbit]

Not to smoke but leave other smokers alone

[MediaSlayer]

We're a dying breed literately,

Yeah, but do you see how everyone is ganging up on the smokers? is almost like a freakin' witch hunt, i do agree that second hand smoke is bad, but here in the states, one of the first smoking bans to become famous was the california smoking ban, which banned it from pubs. my logic is this, if you are that terribly concerned about your health, why are you in a pub? you like the peanuts? most people drink in pubs, and yes i agree that's less invasive because unlike the smoke, that doesn't affect the non-drinking people in the pub. but i do think that a smoky pub is an incentive for the patrons not to stay there all day and drink their life away, which is a good incentive imo. other public places bans are different, i agree with those, except outdoor ones that's a little h4rsh considering the smoke mostly just goes up into the atmosphere.

[magicrabbit]

We're a dying breed literately,

Yeah, but do you see how everyone is ganging up on the smokers? is almost like a freakin' witch hunt, i do agree that second hand smoke is bad, but here in the states, one of the first smoking bans to become famous was the california smoking ban, which banned it from pubs. my logic is this, if you are that terribly concerned about your health, why are you in a pub? you like the peanuts? most people drink in pubs, and yes i agree that's less invasive because unlike the smoke, that doesn't affect the non-drinking people in the pub. but i do think that a smoky pub is a good incentive for the patrons not to stay there all day and drink their life away, which is a good incentive imo. other public places bans are different, i agree with those, except outdoor ones that's a little h4rsh considering the smoke mostly just goes up into the atmosphere.

+1 :yup:

[JPaul]

There is nothing which is analogous with smoking.

So why do people keep trying to debate this issue by analogy.

[Chrys]

I don't smoke !

[Hairbautt]

There is nothing which is analogous with smoking.

So why do people keep trying to debate this issue by analogy.
You said it. :yup:

[MediaSlayer]

in the spirit of healthy debate, i'm going to have to disagree with this:



There is nothing which is analogous with smoking.

So why do people keep trying to debate this issue by analogy.


smoking is something that many people do, to lighten up and relax

drinking is something that many people do, to lighten up and relax



so the similarity is in the motivation, although the means are different

[thewizeard]

.."To be or not to be" that is actually the question...

[bytetorrent]

i dont smoke...

why do people smoke ??? lol

[thewizeard]

i dont smoke...

why do people smoke ??? lol

It often happens during "spontaneous combustion".. The smoke a by-product, caused by insufficient oxygen... ?

[Mr JP Fugley]

in the spirit of healthy debate, i'm going to have to disagree with this:



There is nothing which is analogous with smoking.

So why do people keep trying to debate this issue by analogy.


smoking is something that many people do, to lighten up and relax

drinking is something that many people do, to lighten up and relax



so the similarity is in the motivation, although the means are different

Have you ever sat in the same room as people drinking and become passively drunk, or subjected your liver to the dangers of alcohol. You are subjected to the dangers of smoking every time you sit in the same room as people who are smoking. The more smoking going on the more it effects you. The same cannot be said for sitting in a room where people are drinking.

A person who doesn't drink can go through their whole life without any of the physical effects of drinking. A person who does not smoke can die of throat cancer as a direct result of passive smoking

[pipsta]

If us smokers have to go without a cigarette while we are out and about, they should make fat people
stay indoors, because fat people make me feel sick and seriously damages my mental health :P

[vidcc]

Have you ever sat in the same room as people drinking and become passively drunk, or subjected your liver to the dangers of alcohol. You are subjected to the dangers of smoking every time you sit in the same room as people who are smoking. The more smoking going on the more it effects you. The same cannot be said for sitting in a room where people are drinking.

A person who doesn't drink can go through their whole life without any of the physical effects of drinking. A person who does not smoke can die of throat cancer as a direct result of passive smoking I get your point and you are correct, however if we were to able to compare the "innocent" deaths/injury attributed directly to both habits I'm guessing alcohol would win.:(

[weenden]

i used to enjoy my smokes but it got to the point i like breathing better but if someone said i was going to kick the bucket id go get a pack of smokes and light up caus i did enjoy em

[giant]

smoking kills!

[KRink]

i used to like smoking cigs, but now have moved onto healthier drugs like morphine and heroin, which dont damage the internal organs, unless you are using street shit with impurities of course.

[TYPE R]

i want 2 stop smoking it is a bad fucking habit, but it's really hard 2 stop

[Barbarossa]

Have you ever sat in the same room as people drinking and become passively drunk, or subjected your liver to the dangers of alcohol. You are subjected to the dangers of smoking every time you sit in the same room as people who are smoking. The more smoking going on the more it effects you. The same cannot be said for sitting in a room where people are drinking.

A person who doesn't drink can go through their whole life without any of the physical effects of drinking. A person who does not smoke can die of throat cancer as a direct result of passive smoking I get your point and you are correct, however if we were to able to compare the "innocent" deaths/injury attributed directly to both habits I'm guessing alcohol would win.:(

Good point.

Binge drinking has become the scourge of the English (British?) town centres at night.

If they had only just invented alcohol, it would be a banned substance. I dunno what the answer is. :emo:

[bunny67]

:huh:
i used to like smoking cigs, but now have moved onto healthier drugs like morphine and heroin, which dont damage the internal organs, unless you are using street shit with impurities of course.

[Chip Monk]

I get your point and you are correct, however if we were to able to compare the "innocent" deaths/injury attributed directly to both habits I'm guessing alcohol would win.:(

Good point.

Binge drinking has become the scourge of the English (British?) town centres at night.

If they had only just invented alcohol, it would be a banned substance. I dunno what the answer is. :emo:

Wow, let's be thinking about that. We can discount people who die/are injured as a direct result of their own drinking. The same as we do for smokers. So what are we left with in terms of people who are directly affected by the drinking of others.

It is impossible not to be affected by someone who is smoking in your direct vicinity. The more it goes on the greater the effect, the closer to them the greater the effect. Tho' possibly not as directly proportionate as one would have thought. Once the room is full of poison it's pretty much full of poison.

However it is entirely possible to sit in a room with other people drinking and for it to have no effect at all, other than having a laugh. It happens to most people, most of the time. Even if there is fighting or whatever it is entirely possible to walk away from it.

Yes some people get caught up in it, however my "guess" would be that less poeple are affected by others drinking than are affected by others smoking.

The pictures of boys fighting in the street are dramatic, however in the overall scheme of people taking a wee shandy, just how big a percentage are we talking here. It is also a reasonably specific demographic we are talking about here. 40 year old woman rarely rampage through the streets of Auchterarder.

Again I have no figures to support this, just an intuitive reaction. I suspect the survival rates from an A&E on a Saturday night are significantly better than the oncology ward in the same hospital.

[Barbarossa]

Good point.

Binge drinking has become the scourge of the English (British?) town centres at night.

If they had only just invented alcohol, it would be a banned substance. I dunno what the answer is. :emo:

Wow, let's be thinking about that. We can discount people who die/are injured as a direct result of their own drinking. The same as we do for smokers. So what are we left with in terms of people who are directly affected by the drinking of others.

It is impossible not to be affected by someone who is smoking in your direct vicinity. The more it goes on the greater the effect, the closer to them the greater the effect. Tho' possibly not as directly proportionate as one would have thought. Once the room is full of poison it's pretty much full of poison.

However it is entirely possible to sit in a room with other people drinking and for it to have no effect at all, other than having a laugh. It happens to most people, most of the time. Even if there is fighting or whatever it is entirely possible to walk away from it.

Yes some people get caught up in it, however my "guess" would be that less poeple are affected by others drinking than are affected by others smoking.

The pictures of boys fighting in the street are dramatic, however in the overall scheme of people taking a wee shandy, just how big a percentage are we talking here. It is also a reasonably specific demographic we are talking about here. 40 year old woman rarely rampage through the streets of Auchterarder.

Again I have no figures to support this, just an intuitive reaction. I suspect the survival rates from an A&E on a Saturday night are significantly better than the oncology ward in the same hospital.

There are loads of secondary effects from binge-drinking. I'm going to list them as I think of them.

1). People who live on the main routes to and from a pub routinely have their cars vandalised, their letter-boxes pishes through, and their trees sicked on.

None of the above has actually happened to me, but once someone dived headfirst into one of my flowerbeds as a result of being drunk, and flattened all my daffodils. :angry:

2). Staff at A&E have to deal with rude, aggressive and violent patients as a result of excessive drinking, putting themselves in danger at their place of work.

3). Bouncers in clubs often have to break up fights etc, not knowing if whoever they are man-handling is going to suddenly pull out a knife and stab out, in their stuporific rage.

4). Taxi drivers who are picking up people at the end of the night are at risk from vomit and violence.

5). Police have to dedicate resources to patrolling known trouble-spots at night, rather than catching burglars and paedophiles.

6). People dive headfirst into your daffodils FOR FUCKS SAKE. That alone should be enough. :angry:




Yeah, I'm not saying it's worse than passive smoking, but it can get pretty bad. I'm all in favour of the smoking ban, for the reasons you've been giving.

I like a few drinks myself, and I get merry and silly when I'm drunk, but some people seem to not be able to cope with it all, and go mental. :(

[Chip Monk]

"Yeah, I'm not saying it's worse than passive smoking, but it can get pretty bad"

So, in short and not beating about the bush or gilding the lilly, we are pretty much, what could be described as, in a word, agreed.

I had mistakenly thought you agreed that the drinking thing was worse, given you described it as a "good point".

[Barbarossa]

"Yeah, I'm not saying it's worse than passive smoking, but it can get pretty bad"

So, in short and not beating about the bush or gilding the lilly, we are pretty much, what could be described as, in a word, agreed.

I had mistakenly thought you agreed that the drinking thing was worse, given you described it as a "good point".

:lol: Self-pwned first thing on a tuesday.

I must have been thinking of a point that was not actually the point being made. :pinch:

[Chip Monk]

Maybe you were talking about the presentation, rather than the content.

[MediaSlayer]

There are loads of secondary effects from binge-drinking.

Do they call stella "wife beater" for nothing?

i would have thought that would have been the first one listed, is why i ask.

[Chip Monk]

There are loads of secondary effects from binge-drinking.

Do they call stella "wife beater" for nothing?

i would have thought that would have been the first one listed, is why i ask.

Every person who smokes in their home subjects the other members of their family to the effects of passive smoking.

I know at least one person who drinks Stella, but rarely beats his wife.

[Proper Bo]

I know at least one person who drinks Stella, but rarely beats his wife.

I drink stella and don't have a wife:snooty:

[MediaSlayer]

Every person who smokes in their home subjects the other members of their family to the effects of passive smoking.

I know at least one person who drinks Stella, but rarely beats his wife.

I think you are cross-arguing, because I don't remember arguing with you, that second hand smoke does not affect other people in the vicinity of the smoke.

my original post> i do agree that second hand smoke is bad, but here in the states, one of the first smoking bans to become famous was the california smoking ban, which banned it from pubs. my logic is this, if you are that terribly concerned about your health, why are you in a pub? you like the peanuts? most people drink in pubs, and yes i agree that's less invasive because unlike the smoke, that doesn't affect the non-drinking people in the pub. but i do think that a smoky pub is an incentive for the patrons not to stay there all day and drink their life away, which is a good incentive imo. other public places bans are different, i agree with those, except outdoor ones that's a little h4rsh considering the smoke mostly just goes up into the atmosphere. /

what i was arguing was this:

quote> There is nothing which is analogous with smoking.

So why do people keep trying to debate this issue by analogy. /

I then drew an analogy between smoking and drinking, because you had claimed there was "nothing analogous with smoking", by saying this:

smoking is something that many people do, to lighten up and relax

drinking is something that many people do, to lighten up and relax

so the similarity is in the motivation, although the means are different /

~sweet dreams

[Smoker09]

dont smoke your waste your money! hhhhaa

[Chip Monk]

Every person who smokes in their home subjects the other members of their family to the effects of passive smoking.

I know at least one person who drinks Stella, but rarely beats his wife.

I think you are cross-arguing, because I don't remember arguing with you, that second hand smoke does not affect other people in the vicinity of the smoke.

my original post> i do agree that second hand smoke is bad, but here in the states, one of the first smoking bans to become famous was the california smoking ban, which banned it from pubs. my logic is this, if you are that terribly concerned about your health, why are you in a pub? you like the peanuts? most people drink in pubs, and yes i agree that's less invasive because unlike the smoke, that doesn't affect the non-drinking people in the pub. but i do think that a smoky pub is an incentive for the patrons not to stay there all day and drink their life away, which is a good incentive imo. other public places bans are different, i agree with those, except outdoor ones that's a little h4rsh considering the smoke mostly just goes up into the atmosphere. /

what i was arguing was this:

quote> There is nothing which is analogous with smoking.

So why do people keep trying to debate this issue by analogy. /

I then drew an analogy between smoking and drinking, because you had claimed there was "nothing analogous with smoking", by saying this:

smoking is something that many people do, to lighten up and relax

drinking is something that many people do, to lighten up and relax

so the similarity is in the motivation, although the means are different /

~sweet dreams


That's just a mess. Both in presentation and in reasoning.

It is perfectly possible, indeed normal for people to have a drink without adversely affecting anyone else. Whether that other person is drinking or not. How old or young, healthy or infirm that person is.

The same cannot be said when one smokes in the presence of another person. If you smoke in the presence of another poerson, you adversely affect them. Fact.

They are therefore not analogous in the context of how they effect other people. Which is the point, when discussing whether smoking should be banned in enclosed public places.

[MediaSlayer]

They are therefore not analogous in the context of how they effect other people. Which is the point, when discussing whether smoking should be banned in enclosed public places.

Would it make you feel better, if I admit to you, that it's a weak analogy? :P You see, the problem with an absolute like "nothing" is that it corresponds to the number "0". That is to say, that only if there were 0 similarities between the two (and therefore not satisfying the definition of "analogy") would it be correct to say "nothing is analogous".

;)

and btw, it was you who inspired all this pedantic behaviour in me in teh first place. :lol:

methinks u created a monsta'

[Barbarossa]

Things are either analogous or they aren't. There's no middle ground.

[Chip Monk]

You have to bear in mind the context.

If we were discussing the reasons people smoke, or are unable to quit, then I may have to look at your analogy with drinking and think again. There is no doubt there are similar reason for each.

However we are discussing the ban on smoking in enclosed public places. This being because of the direct effect it has on other people. Which is the basis upon which I consider your analogy.

I'll give you this, it's a weak analogy. However I have to go on and say that it is weak to the extent that it serves no useful purpose in the debate.

[Chip Monk]

Things are either analogous or they aren't. There's no middle ground.

I've given him "weak analogy", by way of encouragement.

[MediaSlayer]

Things are either analogous or they aren't. There's no middle ground.

You mean * is black and white? i fear such!!!!!!


@jpaul - it's a deal. if i had a smilie for it, it would be the one where i'm extending my hand as if to shake on it : )

[Barbarossa]

I wonder what the world would be like if you drank tobacco and smoked alcohol :dabs:



I'm having a 100% moment...

[Barbarossa]

@jpaul - it's a deal. if i had a smilie for it, it would be the one where i'm extending my hand as if to shake on it : )

This one? :wank:

[Chip Monk]

Things are either analogous or they aren't. There's no middle ground.

You mean * is black and white? i fear such!!!!!!


@jpaul - it's a deal. if i had a smilie for it, it would be the one where i'm extending my hand as if to shake on it : )

:chapeau:

[MediaSlayer]

@jpaul - it's a deal. if i had a smilie for it, it would be the one where i'm extending my hand as if to shake on it : )

This one? :wank:

I RESENT THAT SMILIE!!! :hrrmmph:



:P


edit: who knew i would need my boxing gloves in the lounge? :boxing: whateva happened to lighthearted dingleberries and n00bs :wacko:

[Chip Monk]

@jpaul - it's a deal. if i had a smilie for it, it would be the one where i'm extending my hand as if to shake on it : )

This one? :wank:

:lol::earl:

teh harsh.

[MediaSlayer]

it was a setup.

lies, you've givenme gall to drink.

[Hairbautt]

dont smoke your waste your money! hhhhaa
Don't smoke you're wasting your life. Maybe for the better actually...

[JPaul]

Can you waste your life for the better.

[Hairbautt]

What I was trying to say was that:

Smoking is stupid->smoking kills stupid people->less stupid people in the world, the better

Meant it as a joke ;) Sorta.

[SaveFerris]

People should be allowed to smoke if they want, these laws are stupid. They will most certainly effect places, I feel sorry for the owners who're gonna have their lives totally fucked by what's happening.

[Adster]

never smoked once in my life not even one puff

whats the point?? whats your money waste your health waste your time and its disgusting

but people who want to smoke its their choice let them we all have our own reasons for doing things

[Alien5]

People should be allowed to smoke if they want, as long as they don't smoke near me. :snooty:

[thag57]

Hi!
For a year and a half we have those restrictions in Sweden too..all public places, restaurants and pubs - smoking is prohibited. All around the year you can see small groups of brave smokers (me included) huddling under umbrellas in rain and sleet with misty eyes remembering the good ol' days when a man could take a beer and a smoke with his friends inside the pub.
Curiously enough, pub incomes doesn't seem to diminish, quite the opposite actually. The pubs are crowded with beer-lovers, and the streets outside the pubs are crowded with us smokers.
thag57

[Roxxy]

The smoke thst comes while a cigarette burns in the ashtray contains twice as much nicotine

[owl92]

Smoking is just stupid.


and ur smart?:noes:

[popeye09]

Smoking is just stupid.


and ur smart?:noes:

maybe his is!:w00t:

[bytetorrent]

quit smoking .. use acid :yup:

[JPaul]

Just say no, kids.

or

Just say, no kids.

you choose.