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Diiyad
02-29-2008, 07:53 AM
After reading this thread :
http://filesharingtalk.com/vb3/f-bittorrent-43/t-arewere-you-cheater-281415

It got me wondering when trackers will put an end to all these "cheaters." Will there be a time when torrent sites have all their users with legitimate ratios?

I met this guy a few weeks ago through someone well known here on the board, and I made the mistake of inviting him to one of my favorite sites. After talking to him for a few nights, he slowly revealed to me that he uses a program to spoof his ratio on all of his sites. I got to know him pretty well, he told me all the methods he uses to cheat and not get caught like a drunk man at a bar. I won't mention these for obvious reasons, but he is smart and knows everything about tracker anti-cheating scripts. I look at his ratio on the tracker I invited him on, and it makes me angry to know he achieved it by spoofing data when someone like me paying 60$/month for a seedbox is seeding files back to people on a daily basis. I've thought about informing the staff, but that would put my account at risk and what good would it do when they have no proof?

What does everybody think about ratio cheaters? Obviously the normal people get caught, but the smart one's go unnoticed ... which leads me to believe that there is no way to stop the spoofing of data.

Totti
02-29-2008, 07:57 AM
i think that it will stop the seconed trackers only look at the seedtime and not the amount of data a user can upload it is a very unfair system for users with slow upload speeds it's been working on ftn fsc and even bcg for while now with great success(i can only talk about bcg from my experience)

tusks
02-29-2008, 08:07 AM
Cheating is basically pointless in my opinion. I get a genuine satisfaction of seeding data and waking up in the morning and seeing that I've given back to the community and other people will be able to enjoy the same content. Some people just want everything for nothing and they'll even disrupt the natural order of things to get it and eventually the dumb ones will get caught and the smart ones will persist and there's very little we can do about it. On a brighter note, their reckless leeching does increase the ratios of those legitimate users who downloaded the content and need to seed data back in order to keep a good ratio.

sert
02-29-2008, 09:41 AM
threads like these will bring more negative results

the more you talk about cheaters' success the more you encourage other members to try to cheat

captain jack sparow was cheating in his movies also, but you I see him on your ava :naughty:

yayyyyyy
02-29-2008, 09:42 AM
I think in the same way as Totti... but the solution is different imho: when all the ppl on slow pipes will be banned from accessing high level trackers...

at that point the ratio will be no more needed ... as everybody on 100mbit / gbit can seedback every torrent in less then 1hour :)

and no need to overseed for 36hours :)

stoi
02-29-2008, 09:47 AM
if you think BCG doesnt have any cheaters think again. they do it so they dont have to wait the 3 days to get SP, people are very greedy and thats basically the crutch of the matter, Greed.

Obviously you get the stupid ones, uploaded 10 gig in 10 seconds that are easy to spot, and then you get the harder to catch ones.

But we keep a record of every announce on every torrent, so its not hard to look at someones history and see if they are ok or a cheat, problem is with 47,000 members and only a handful of staff, its hard work. well not hard, just time consuming.

so even if you have no ratio and only a timefor seeding, they still dont want to wait the time for seeding, or they want PU/SPU so they still bloody cheat.

tutipute
02-29-2008, 10:17 AM
I think in the same way as Totti... but the solution is different imho: when all the ppl on slow pipes will be banned from accessing high level trackers...

at that point the ratio will be no more needed ... as everybody on 100mbit / gbit can seedback every torrent in less then 1hour :)

and no need to overseed for 36hours :)

This is "web racism" at its best! ;)
Now seriously, as part of a member in a group that have lousy ISPs and can not afford the the luxury of a seedbox just for sharing, I try out to find creative solutions in order to become/remain part of the communities that i appreciate and enjoy. An example is to replace the seedbox expense by investing in big storage and seeding for a long while...
I find your comment really offensive and ugly. In my opinion it is against the whole sharing principle... Having to post my speedtest is humiliating enough! :D
As someone who has been part of this communities long before the big bittorent rush (The "sharing woodstock" as i'd like to call it) I just hope that tracker owners and staff will maintain the old spirit and find better and creative solutions in order to fight with this epidemic.

stoi
02-29-2008, 10:24 AM
I think in the same way as Totti... but the solution is different imho: when all the ppl on slow pipes will be banned from accessing high level trackers...

at that point the ratio will be no more needed ... as everybody on 100mbit / gbit can seedback every torrent in less then 1hour :)

and no need to overseed for 36hours :)

This is "web racism" at its best! ;)
Now seriously, as part of a member in a group that have lousy ISPs and can not afford the the luxury of a seedbox just for sharing, I try out to find creative solutions in order to become/remain part of the communities that i appreciate and enjoy. An example is to replace the seedbox expense by investing in big storage and seeding for a long while...
I find your comment really offensive and ugly. In my opinion it is against the whole sharing principle... Having to post my speedtest is humiliating enough! :D
As someone who has been part of this communities long before the big bittorent rush (The "sharing woodstock" as i'd like to call it) I just hope that tracker owners and staff will maintain the old spirit and find better and creative solutions in order to fight with this epidemic.

but we do and they still bloody cheat, and its not just those on poor upload either, even those that have a decent upload try to get away with it.

we even had an uploader that cheated on his own uploads (2 in fact) seeding at 600KBs when there was no peers, now how bloody stupid can you be.

now that wasnt for promotion, as you cant get any higher than uploader, and a great ratio will never make you staff just for that.

it just boggles the mind sometimes the things we see.

ramishka
02-29-2008, 10:33 AM
I think in the same way as Totti... but the solution is different imho: when all the ppl on slow pipes will be banned from accessing high level trackers...

at that point the ratio will be no more needed ... as everybody on 100mbit / gbit can seedback every torrent in less then 1hour :)

and no need to overseed for 36hours :)

This would only increase the number of cheaters. They will actively search for workarounds for this type of ban. And this time they will have a reason.

Not all countries have the infrastructure to support high speed upload bandwidth. It's not the fault of the users is it?

Anyway it sort of makes file sharing limited to some elite class of users, which would suck donkey balls.

tutipute
02-29-2008, 10:44 AM
This is "web racism" at its best! ;)
Now seriously, as part of a member in a group that have lousy ISPs and can not afford the the luxury of a seedbox just for sharing, I try out to find creative solutions in order to become/remain part of the communities that i appreciate and enjoy. An example is to replace the seedbox expense by investing in big storage and seeding for a long while...
I find your comment really offensive and ugly. In my opinion it is against the whole sharing principle... Having to post my speedtest is humiliating enough! :D
As someone who has been part of this communities long before the big bittorent rush (The "sharing woodstock" as i'd like to call it) I just hope that tracker owners and staff will maintain the old spirit and find better and creative solutions in order to fight with this epidemic.

but we do and they still bloody cheat, and its not just those on poor upload either, even those that have a decent upload try to get away with it.

we even had an uploader that cheated on his own uploads (2 in fact) seeding at 600KBs when there was no peers, now how bloody stupid can you be.

now that wasnt for promotion, as you cant get any higher than uploader, and a great ratio will never make you staff just for that.

it just boggles the mind sometimes the things we see.

In my opinion, a big part of the problem is the strong competition and lack of sharing between the trackers...
Im not an owner nor a stuff, but as a user it seems to me that the only place that you guys really share your knowledge is forums like this one.
Again, as a user it seems that there is a big difference between the security measurements and implementations and i was wondering when was the last time you recieved (or gave) a tip, patch or briliant implemnetation suggestions directly to one of your fellow owners? (And i am not talking about TBDEV, etc...)
I really mean no offense and will be more than happy to be stand corrected and discover that these are just my handful clueless thoughts but in my opinion, the great competition over the prestige is a big part of it...

stoi
02-29-2008, 11:35 AM
well im not sure what that has to do with anything, but the biggest (i wont say best as it caught some innocents as well so i heard) was Oinks cheat script, but he/they did not share it with anyone.

but then im not saying thats a bad thing, as our SP system is exclusive to us and i very much doubt we will share the code for it any time soon, a tracker needs to have something to stand out from the rest.

but there are forums out there just for tracker staff. and no its not just for catching traders from here, there are coding forums as well. so they do exist just users dont know that they do exist lol

Polarbear
02-29-2008, 11:44 AM
well im not sure what that has to do with anything, but the biggest (i wont say best as it caught some innocents as well so i heard) was Oinks cheat script, but he/they did not share it with anyone.

but then im not saying thats a bad thing, as our SP system is exclusive to us and i very much doubt we will share the code for it any time soon, a tracker needs to have something to stand out from the rest.

but there are forums out there just for tracker staff. and no its not just for catching traders from here, there are coding forums as well. so they do exist just users dont know that they do exist lol

... and sometimes you sysops do invite each other ... :naughty:

Actatoi
02-29-2008, 11:48 AM
You will never stop cheating, but you do can get the upper hand on the more noob cheaters out there. The more experienced and the ones with great knowledge about it will not do anything stupid, they will make sure that what they're using is safe and at what speeds etc. It's a neverending fight like with "thiefs" in the real life.

saqib
02-29-2008, 12:08 PM
well i ll not go in details about the reasons that why ppl do cheat , sometimes it is because of low pipes ( mostly in indian sub continent ) even though not all of them are cheaters , i use the highest commecial bandwidth here in pakistan ( 2mbit ) with shitty upload speed ( around 70 / 80 KB/s ) but still i do care about the communities i have to sedback , and it took me about 3 or 4 days to seed back properly ) .. and i aint find any reason that i should cheat on high level trackers coz many of them have seedbox , although it does effect low bandwidth users like me, but i think users like me from developing countries deserve some appreciation as i pay about 50% of my pocket money ( m a graduation student and do no job as of now ) for highest at the time bandwidth available .
but this theory does not apply on all cheaters , as stoi has said that they have caught 2 ratio cheaters who actually cheated on their own uploaded stuff , i dont know what to call it , as i know 110% that they should had high bandwidth ( atleast 20 mbit + ) ..

Diiyad
02-29-2008, 12:14 PM
threads like these will bring more negative results

the more you talk about cheaters' success the more you encourage other members to try to cheat

captain jack sparow was cheating in his movies also, but you I see him on your ava :naughty:

Wow you're clever :rolleyes:


if you think BCG doesnt have any cheaters think again. they do it so they dont have to wait the 3 days to get SP, people are very greedy and thats basically the crutch of the matter, Greed.

Obviously you get the stupid ones, uploaded 10 gig in 10 seconds that are easy to spot, and then you get the harder to catch ones.

But we keep a record of every announce on every torrent, so its not hard to look at someones history and see if they are ok or a cheat, problem is with 47,000 members and only a handful of staff, its hard work. well not hard, just time consuming.

so even if you have no ratio and only a timefor seeding, they still dont want to wait the time for seeding, or they want PU/SPU so they still bloody cheat.

Yeah I can imagine, but this is exactly what I'm talking about, you're trying to catch them by checking for signs of cheating on the torrents. Will there ever be a way to stop them from spoofing data completely?

stoi
02-29-2008, 12:14 PM
well for our uploaders we do not specify that they need a good bw to apply, anyone can apply as long as you use your comment sense, if your on dial up stick to NDS single roms and dont do 25 gig PS3 games sort of common sense lol

well like i mentioned Oink had a script and they never shared it, and i very much dowubt they will now lol

but that doesnt mean it wont happen again and someone else wont create one, but i still think human intervention is best, auto banning by the tracker (unless its totally obvious) just doesnt work 100% of the time imo.

tutipute
02-29-2008, 12:45 PM
Wow you're clever :rolleyes:

Yeah I can imagine, but this is exactly what I'm talking about, you're trying to catch them by checking for signs of cheating on the torrents. Will there
ever be a way to stop them from spoofing data completely?

Currently, the protocol doesn't allow it... In the future, i guess the protocol will support data spoofing detection.

mrnobody
02-29-2008, 01:19 PM
report him and maybe they will spare you.

if they find out he is a cheater by themself, u might also be in trouble.

sert
02-29-2008, 01:19 PM
well im not sure what that has to do with anything, but the biggest (i wont say best as it caught some innocents as well so i heard) was Oinks cheat script, but he/they did not share it with anyone.

but then im not saying thats a bad thing, as our SP system is exclusive to us and i very much doubt we will share the code for it any time soon, a tracker needs to have something to stand out from the rest.

but there are forums out there just for tracker staff. and no its not just for catching traders from here, there are coding forums as well. so they do exist just users dont know that they do exist lol

Well you overestimate oink's staff about this, for two reasons:

1. they had way smaller files than scene trackers (compare an album with mp3s with a DVD-R) and ratio differences were easier to notice

2. they had always a person watching. This means that they were not relying only in checking client's announcements to the tracker but they also had an observer. You know if you actually watch the peers in a torrent its easy to note upload discrepancies. It is not difficult but its time consuming as you said in another post - this person(s) was doing the most work in the tacker.

All above for fake upload. As for ghost leeching, I think most trackers can now spot it.


Wow you're clever

At least smarter than someone using jack sparow as avatar, are you a teenager or not yet?

Polarbear
02-29-2008, 01:24 PM
i think cheating methods shouldn't be discussed here at all. it just gives members and guests(!) wrong ideas.

if you want to talk about cheating meet in a private chat room or something and share your experiences there.

sert
02-29-2008, 01:34 PM
i think cheating methods shouldn't be discussed here at all. it just gives members and guests(!) wrong ideas.

if you want to talk about cheating meet in a private chat room or something and share your experiences there.

Exactly this was my first reply to the thread and I fully agree with your comment.

AugustoP
02-29-2008, 01:54 PM
but then im not saying thats a bad thing, as our SP system is exclusive to us and i very much doubt we will share the code for it any time soon, a tracker needs to have something to stand out from the rest.

It's because of that kind of attitude we're still stuck with sluggish and insecure TorrentBits engine. Trackers should be differentiated by communities not by the tools they provide. Seed points? Power search? Jeez, how difficult could it be to code this?

stoi
02-29-2008, 02:10 PM
well getting a bit offtopic here.

I didnt code it, one of my staff did, if he turned around and said he wanted to share it, i would back him, but if he says he wants it as a blackcats only mod, then i back him as well.

Diiyad
02-29-2008, 02:13 PM
report him and maybe they will spare you.

if they find out he is a cheater by themself, u might also be in trouble.

He doesn't get caught.





Wow you're clever

At least smarter than someone using jack sparow as avatar, are you a teenager or not yet?

A little judgmental now are we?
I make a thread to discuss how cheating can be stopped and your first reply is "Oh your avatar has Jack Sparrow on it, and he 'cheated' in his movie, so maybe you cheat?" So excuse me for being sarcastic instead of saying something rude for your worthless comment. From what I can see you're just hitting puberty, probably 13-14 years old right? See, you judge me by my avatar, I judge you by your posts. Don't post in my thread again unless you have something useful to say kiddo.

briand5379
02-29-2008, 03:29 PM
As long as you have dishonest people out there in the world who think they won't get caught you'll have cheaters. That's just a way of life.

AugustoP
02-29-2008, 03:30 PM
well getting a bit offtopic here.

I didnt code it, one of my staff did, if he turned around and said he wanted to share it, i would back him, but if he says he wants it as a blackcats only mod, then i back him as well.

Yeah, it makes sense and perfectly understandable. But it's kinda against the whole idea of p2p - like I give something to you today and you'll give me something tomorrow. I guess competition and rivalry between tracker operators has something to do with it too.

It applies to cheating detection as well - if your system is secure only as long as its security algorithms are secret it's in fact a piece of crap.

I think everything torrent-related should be open and available to general public - no secret closed forums, no "private" hacks etc. Maybe torrent community will finally create a good tracker - secure, extensible, with presentation layer separated from logic. Some guys work on that "Gazelle" project but I highly doubt their ability to get the job done.

stoi
02-29-2008, 03:37 PM
ok, we post a vulnerabilty or a piece of code that will stop a cheating programme.

20 minutes later, 10 trackers have been hit and a new programme has been made.

this is why code of this nature is not in the public eye, you see an exploit, you exploit it before trackers have a chance to plug it. (not you just whoever)

C-mos
02-29-2008, 03:40 PM
it seems that every day are more cheaters :-<..

AugustoP
02-29-2008, 03:57 PM
ok, we post a vulnerabilty or a piece of code that will stop a cheating programme.

20 minutes later, 10 trackers have been hit and a new programme has been made.

this is why code of this nature is not in the public eye, you see an exploit, you exploit it before trackers have a chance to plug it. (not you just whoever)

This policy works out in the big world (OSes, DBMS etc), why it can't work out in the torrent world? I guess after some time all serious vulnerabilities will be patched and integrated into the common codebase. Only things you can justify keeping secret are inherent protocol weaknesses cause bittorrent protocol can't really be changed as far as I understand.

stoi
02-29-2008, 03:59 PM
as for the SP mod we have got.

every tracker under the sun does freeleech these days, and 2* upload, so its nothing new.

the SP mod i unique to BCG, an I personally do not believe its a freeleech system.

But i have just made a post today regarding the SP mod and if its freeleech here.

http://filesharingtalk.com/vb3/f-bittorrent-43/t-is-bcg-sp-system-freeleech-system-281489

and i think your slightly missing the point.

lets say windows has an exploit, someone finds it and its reported on the news, Microsoft get their asses in gear, fix the exploit and release it as a windows update.

millions of users use windows, so it 100 get effected by the exploit tough. but it takes one update and all those millions of OS are fixed within minutes/hours max.

a tracker does the same, one coder will find the fis for it, they share it on a public forum, other tracker staff may not be aware, and those tracker staff that are have to code it. problem is the public know about it and some will exploit it, and it might take weeks for all trackers to plug that hole.

also there is only about 100 tbdev trackers (probably a bit more but not many more) so the damage from exploiting the exploit would be considerable, even if they just hit 10 trackers.

mrnobody
02-29-2008, 04:05 PM
He doesn't get caught.


may be the system dosn't detect it but if staffer look at his account/activity personally i am sure they can dig something.

jjdekroon
02-29-2008, 04:11 PM
I don't know exactly how they do it, but i think that when they have one way disabled, the real cheaters will find other ways of cheating.

supper
02-29-2008, 04:24 PM
u want to stop the cheaters then forget about how much internet speed conaction u have and try to make onther ratio system like removeing the ratio system or make bounse ( focus more on for how long u can seed better then focus on how much u can upload) thats why cheaters cant give up on cheating coz not every one have seedbox or not every one have high speed conaction

@off topic its relly funny that who made this thread and who want to stop cheaters he is scammer him self:happy:

he told me he have rabbit invite and he will send it to me immediately after i will give him invites and accounts to other trackers in return even i know u cant have any invites on ur rabbit account unless u make req with ratio proof and ip of that one u want him to get the invite even though he told one of my friends he is an forum mod at the rabbit:D what a lame:lol: oh and when i told him if u dont trust me we can ask for middleman he just refused i still keep ur pm Diiyad (http://filesharingtalk.com/vb3/../../members/diiyad-193767)



and u can keep this pm in ur min too it wasnt only trying to trade it was trying to scammeing me also http://i28.tinypic.com/ou8dy1.gif


http://filesharingtalk.com/vb3/p-should-acct-trades-allowed-here-post2696052/postcount320

O yea:lol:

Diiyad
02-29-2008, 05:34 PM
u want to stop the cheaters then forget about how much internet speed conaction u have and try to make onther ratio system like removeing the ratio system or make bounse ( foucas more on for how long u can seed better then foucas on how much u can upload) thats why cheaters cant give up on cheating coz not every one have seedbox or not every one have high speed conaction

@off topic its relly funny that who made this thread and who want to stop cheaters he is scammer him self:happy:

he told me he have rabbit invite and he will send it to me immediately after i will give him invites and accounts to other trackers in return even i know u cant have any invites on ur rabbit account unless u make req with ratio proof and ip of that one u want him to get the invite even though he told one of my friends he is an forum mod at the rabbit:D what a lame:lol: oh and when i told him if u dont trust me we can ask for middleman he just refused i still keep ur pm Diiyad (http://filesharingtalk.com/vb3/../../members/diiyad-193767)

Oh really? We shall see about that :happy:
I don't trade by the way - I'm completely against sales/trades/giveaways of any invites/accounts. Keep that in mind.

supper
02-29-2008, 05:36 PM
u want to stop the cheaters then forget about how much internet speed conaction u have and try to make onther ratio system like removeing the ratio system or make bounse ( foucas more on for how long u can seed better then foucas on how much u can upload) thats why cheaters cant give up on cheating coz not every one have seedbox or not every one have high speed conaction

@off topic its relly funny that who made this thread and who want to stop cheaters he is scammer him self:happy:

he told me he have rabbit invite and he will send it to me immediately after i will give him invites and accounts to other trackers in return even i know u cant have any invites on ur rabbit account unless u make req with ratio proof and ip of that one u want him to get the invite even though he told one of my friends he is an forum mod at the rabbit:D what a lame:lol: oh and when i told him if u dont trust me we can ask for middleman he just refused i still keep ur pm Diiyad (http://filesharingtalk.com/vb3/../../members/diiyad-193767)

Oh really? We shall see about that :happy:
I don't trade by the way - I'm completely against sales/trades/giveaways of any invites/accounts. Keep that in mind.then why u pmd me asking about my offer and wanted me to go first if u are anti trader?:huh: even the only rep point u got its about tradeing also:pinch:

AugustoP
02-29-2008, 05:44 PM
also there is only about 100 tbdev trackers (probably a bit more but not many more) so the damage from exploiting the exploit would be considerable, even if they just hit 10 trackers.

Maybe you're right, we should take into account the pressure trackers under but I still don't like security based on secrecy. There will be some fuck-ups and disasterous hacks but after some time all major vulnerabilities will be fixed. According to my knowledge current state of TBDev could be described as clusterfuck - it's very insecure out of the box and difficult to customize.

markupmaster
02-29-2008, 05:46 PM
Cheating ruins the entire BT system.


If you feel the need to cheat then you don't know the true meaning of torrenting.


The whole point of seeding is "Sharing".

When you cheat,You do the exact opposite.

Cheaters don't get the real Bittorrent experience which is really sad because the torrent experience is one that you don't want to miss..


:(

stoi
02-29-2008, 05:55 PM
also there is only about 100 tbdev trackers (probably a bit more but not many more) so the damage from exploiting the exploit would be considerable, even if they just hit 10 trackers.

Maybe you're right, we should take into account the pressure trackers under but I still don't like security based on secrecy. There will be some fuck-ups and disasterous hacks but after some time all major vulnerabilities will be fixed. According to my knowledge current state of TBDev could be described as clusterfuck - it's very insecure out of the box and difficult to customize.

tbh i have never really worked that one out myself, why release a tracker with more holes than swiss cheese to the pubic, when the fixes for 99% of the holes are already known.

I have nothing to do with TBdev, we just use the tracker (well torrentstrike thats based off TBdev) but we have ripped it apart and put it back together again so to speak.

only people that knows the answer to that are the TBdev devs.

KFlint
02-29-2008, 07:57 PM
please don't post public accusation on this forum guys,if you have anything to say, use the report section

FashionSTAR
02-29-2008, 08:39 PM
my biggest hobby is catching cheaters.
it is really very interesting.
finally you will be caught, just a matter of time.

Green Goblin
02-29-2008, 08:45 PM
my biggest hobby is catching cheaters.
it is really very interesting.
finally you will be caught, just a matter of time.


lol, your hobby is catching cheaters? you need to go outside more.

predateur
02-29-2008, 09:39 PM
there is some people who have realy poor upload speed, and they will never get the ratio:1 in some high tracker, they dont have money to spend in seedbox, and dont know anyone the help him , (too unlucky but its true lol) i understand these people when they cheat to survive in the tracker (just to have good ratio, not fot the show :P ) , and specialy in tracker where they sell upload credit ( < do you think its fair ? pay to leech something meant to be free)

the best solution in my opinion to stop cheaters and no one will need to cheat is to have a ratio system who help all people , the best one ofc is FTN system (you dont need to pay for filesharing , you can help by seeding back and it help all)

PS. i am not cheater and i dont say cheating is good, and i will never be happy by inviting a cheater to any of my tracker, thats just my opinion about cheaters ;)

peace :P

Actatoi
02-29-2008, 11:16 PM
my biggest hobby is catching cheaters.
it is really very interesting.
finally you will be caught, just a matter of time.

GO GET THEM TIGER!

henry_fw
02-29-2008, 11:40 PM
I guess there will always be cheaters... the tracker makes a mod to catch them, but they still find another way to cheat.

DianaMaclay
03-01-2008, 12:50 AM
So what do we do us with a low speed? I want to give back what I've taken, but damn if it's not hard! Do any of you have any advice on this? I don't want to be thrown out of my communities, and I want to give back.

grimms
03-01-2008, 01:20 AM
So what do we do us with a low speed? I want to give back what I've taken, but damn if it's not hard! Do any of you have any advice on this? I don't want to be thrown out of my communities, and I want to give back.

Never cheat. I hear all day on here, how you have to cheat to get a good decent ratio on some sites without a seedbox. Bullshit. I have a crappy connection and manage to do just fine. Not saying my ratio was always good the first few months I join a tracker, but I manage pretty well. I don't see why so many people cry foul, who don't have seedboxes. I'm one of those members who don't have a seedbox. I tend to do ok with regards to my ratio. When I hear a member state, I need to cheat, due to not having a seedbox? I consider that a cop out (Bold Excuse).:bleh:

DianaMaclay
03-01-2008, 02:05 AM
So what do we do us with a low speed? I want to give back what I've taken, but damn if it's not hard! Do any of you have any advice on this? I don't want to be thrown out of my communities, and I want to give back.

Never cheat. I hear all day on here, how you have to cheat to get a good decent ratio on some sites without a seedbox. Bullshit. I have a crappy connection and manage to do just fine. Not saying my ratio was always good the first few months I join a tracker, but I manage pretty well. I don't see why so many people cry foul, who don't have seedboxes. I'm one of those members who don't have a seedbox. I tend to do ok with regards to my ratio. When I hear a member state, I need to cheat, due to not having a seedbox? I consider that a cop out (Bold Excuse).:bleh:

I'm not cheating. I'm pretty newbie with the whole torrent thing and I do not know hot to cheat (sounds lame, but really true) and anyway, I don't want to cheat, that is why I need advice on how to improve my ratio with a lowspeed upload. Some members here have been nice enough to give me some invites to private trackers, and I don't want to pass as a hit and runner, so any help would be most appreciated.

(I had to edit a lot of times this post... Really newbie)

grimms
03-01-2008, 02:21 AM
I never said you was personally cheating. I was giving you the best advice you can get if you ever want to become respected and trusted around here and hopefully every your bt journey takes you. Best Path? Share by seeding, uploading, helping others, and making whatever trackers your apart of a better place for other members. Just give back. Thats really it. Keyword "Seed". Also don't hit and run if you don't have to. It's always good to try and seed back for at least 36 hours or 1:1 ratio, strive for much longer then that, but Just throwing you an example out there.

SenorBubbz
03-01-2008, 02:41 AM
I think in the same way as Totti... but the solution is different imho: when all the ppl on slow pipes will be banned from accessing high level trackers...

at that point the ratio will be no more needed ... as everybody on 100mbit / gbit can seedback every torrent in less then 1hour :)

and no need to overseed for 36hours :)

No comment on how utterly mentally retarded that comment was.

TP635
03-01-2008, 02:54 AM
I think in the same way as Totti... but the solution is different imho: when all the ppl on slow pipes will be banned from accessing high level trackers...

at that point the ratio will be no more needed ... as everybody on 100mbit / gbit can seedback every torrent in less then 1hour :)

and no need to overseed for 36hours :)

No comment on how utterly mentally retarded that comment was.

Seedbox users are the minority; they over-seed and give no chance for those with slow line to seed back. They are the one that should be ban. How is that for a rebuttal.:happy:

Sanka113
03-01-2008, 02:57 AM
+1

Sonnentier
03-01-2008, 05:00 AM
Seedbox users are the minority; they over-seed and give no chance for those with slow line to seed back. They are the one that should be ban.
Actually a complex situation if you are unhappy about resources ready to leech..

perhaps global ratio rules should be a bit more relaxed then, also taking the last excuse away from the cheaters ;P

soulreaper
03-01-2008, 10:14 AM
One way to atleast reduce cheating is by eliminating ratio systems or atleast making them less stringent.
Developing anti-cheat scripts is a surefire way of complete elimination.

danio
03-01-2008, 12:19 PM
off-topic: it's funny when people with slow connection speeds complain about users with seedboxes, saying that they "overseed and give no chance for those with slow connection". i'm sorry if i sound a little harsh now but noone forces you to use the top speed sites where most people have seedboxes.. stick with torrentleech and such, or invest in a seedbox yourself..what's the point of using the top speed trackers if your connection is slow anyways? (nup, i don't have a seedbox :P)

on-topic: i think the best way to fight cheaters is to keep improving the anti-cheating scripts.. with good scripts i don't think cheating is a problem. i mean if most cheaters get caught it wouldn't be such big of a problem.

Gilgameshx
03-01-2008, 01:08 PM
If you eliminate the ratio there would be dramatic increase in hit n run+users limiting their upload. For a start it would be wise not to talk about cheaters this way here cause every guest can see comments like "if you are cheater and smart you can cheat and get away with it"

popcop23
03-01-2008, 01:16 PM
If you eliminate the ratio there would be dramatic increase in hit n run+users limiting their upload. For a start it would be wise not to talk about cheaters this way here cause every guest can see comments like "if you are cheater and smart you can cheat and get away with it"
That is wrong!

TP635
03-01-2008, 02:46 PM
off-topic: it's funny when people with slow connection speeds complain about users with seedboxes, saying that they "overseed and give no chance for those with slow connection". i'm sorry if i sound a little harsh now but noone forces you to use the top speed sites where most people have seedboxes.. stick with torrentleech and such, or invest in a seedbox yourself..what's the point of using the top speed trackers if your connection is slow anyways? (nup, i don't have a seedbox :P)



What you said is very true. (note the smilely I use) I have a slow pipe and use T*B:whistling for most of my need. Rapidshare is the other source. I have acc in some mid level trackers that I keep active and use them only when I can't get files from my normal sources.:yup:

Dilly786
03-01-2008, 03:24 PM
it sometimes is hard to seed back when your on such a good website that has about so many seeders on every torrent wouldnt it be a good idea to give more upload credit to begin with to the users who have a slow connection this way they can achieve a better ratio easily without being banned so quick

Femto
03-01-2008, 06:25 PM
The only cheater in a torrent site is that donation button.

Actatoi
03-01-2008, 06:34 PM
The only cheater in a torrent site is that donation button.

Yes, because every owner of a torrent site want to pay 500-3000$ a month themself.

Femto
03-01-2008, 06:42 PM
The only cheater in a torrent site is that donation button.

Yes, because every owner of a torrent site want to pay 500-3000$ a month themself.

If you can't pay it, don't ask others to do it for you. Simple business ethic.

Night0wl
03-01-2008, 08:11 PM
Yes, because every owner of a torrent site want to pay 500-3000$ a month themself.

If you can't pay it, don't ask others to do it for you. Simple business ethic.

What kind of bullshit is it you're teaching??

I would go and take a good long look at what business ethics involve, before opening my mouth about how private trackers go against it.

Are you saying that someone providing a service that people want, is not entitled to get help running that service? Because if you are, then you couldn't be more wrong.

The only business ethics tracker staff go against is not using this service to make profit, which is a nono in ethics. Providing time and knowledge without getting paid. That goes against everything a business should stand for. Maybe because a private tracker isn't a business.

From now on, I would suggest you do your homework and pay attention in class. I sure hope your teachers in ethics didn't teach you what you just claimed, because then they should be replaced with someone that actually knows what they is teaching.

Actatoi
03-01-2008, 10:41 PM
If you can't pay it, don't ask others to do it for you. Simple business ethic.

:lol::lol:


What Blue_Skies said.