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View Full Version : P2L = Good.



bblogs
10-27-2008, 11:11 AM
I know a lot of people here yell and scream about P2L and profiting from 'something that's meant to be free', and I used to agree...but then eventually I realised it's a good thing.

Money motivates staff to make their tracker better than everyone else's, or at least offer members something they want.
P2L lets lazy/unpriveleged members keep leeching, and gives desperate members a chance at keeping their account.
It makes it easier for others to seed, gives relief to an overseeded site.
It lets a site run a better server, or dedicate a seedbox to the site, etc.
If you don't want to pay, you don't have to...what's the big problem with an admin profiting...seriously??

Several of the notorious donation snatching sites, TL/SCT/Bitmetv etc, also happen to be at the top of their fields. Of course it will only work positively in a very good tracker, but if you're stupid enough to donate to a new site hoping to get reap mega dividends later, then that's your own problem.

I've never given a cent to a tracker before, but this is how it seems to me.

stoi
10-27-2008, 11:41 AM
My personal opinion.

1: Money does not do that, making the tracker as best as it can be (got nothing to do with making it better than other trackers) and pleasing the members, regardless if you get less donations for doing it. (our SP mod for example).

2: I would rather lazy/unpriviliged members, just kept seeding for awhile longer, so they can give a little of what they have, than hit and run then pay hmm ME for the privilage.

3: SP bonus is a great thing, members can seed till their hearts content, and those that do not have the BW or are just stuck with no leechers, still get a 1 ratio on every torrent.

4: If you need a better server, put the donation total price up for awhile to cover it.

5: I will let others answer that one. not because i profit, but im not going to sit here and call other tracker admins for the way they run their sites.

We are not that bad i hope, and we do not do it and manage OK, but again, its up to those trackers what they do, does not matter if i think its right or wrong, they wont take any notice of what i say anyway.

ben99
10-27-2008, 01:58 PM
My personal opinion.

1: Money does not do that, making the tracker as best as it can be (got nothing to do with making it better than other trackers) and pleasing the members, regardless if you get less donations for doing it. (our SP mod for example).

2: I would rather lazy/unpriviliged members, just kept seeding for awhile longer, so they can give a little of what they have, than hit and run then pay hmm ME for the privilage.

3: SP bonus is a great thing, members can seed till their hearts content, and those that do not have the BW or are just stuck with no leechers, still get a 1 ratio on every torrent.

4: If you need a better server, put the donation total price up for awhile to cover it.

5: I will let others answer that one. not because i profit, but im not going to sit here and call other tracker admins for the way they run their sites.

We are not that bad i hope, and we do not do it and manage OK, but again, its up to those trackers what they do, does not matter if i think its right or wrong, they wont take any notice of what i say anyway.


rofl, blackcats is also p2l...

stoi
10-27-2008, 01:59 PM
explain, because your talking crap.

ben99
10-27-2008, 02:28 PM
all I'm going to say is full sp bonus..

BlueLabel
10-27-2008, 02:37 PM
rofl, blackcats is also p2l...
try to be smart??
guess what... your hit and run didnt succeed
if you want to say something you better put some explanations or you making fun of yourself.

all I'm going to say is full sp bonus..
thats far away from P2L
you have SP without donation too
whats the difference seed another couple hours??

stoi
10-27-2008, 04:28 PM
honestly, if i was going to donate to a site just for gigs, or SP bonus or any other thing they have on the site, I would just get usenet every month.

I would hope that most members that do donate, do it because they like the tracker and they do not want it to vanish.

But how you can say ours is P2L i have no idea, you have totally lost me on that one.

integral
10-27-2008, 07:00 PM
As far as I know, the only true P2L site is TorrentLeech. If you pay for VIP at TL, you no longer have to follow ratio rules and are allowed to hit & run any torrent at will. Most other sites offer incentives for paying money to the tracker off GBs of uploads or invites, but it is not full leech as you do have to respect the ratio rules after that. Full SP Bonus at BCG is definitely not P2L, as you still have to maintain a 1:1 ratio on every torrent, even if paying makes it a little easier.

All that aside, my personal belief is that if a tracker uses money that its users give to benefit the tracker and its users, then it isn't really my concern what they do with the 'leftovers'. Let's take FTN for example. They're actively trying to benefit their userbase and upgrade their site with user donations, so I hope they exceed their donation amount by 300%. Now let's look at BitMeTV. The site lags out on popular TV days because the owner is too cheap to upgrade hardware and get better hosting. I wish that no one would give money to BMTV.

bblogs
10-27-2008, 08:47 PM
I would rather lazy/unpriviliged members, just kept seeding for awhile longer, so they can give a little of what they have, than hit and run then pay hmm ME for the privilage.


But you have to admit, exploiting lazy members is a good system :) I can't argue with your SP system, but your opinion is revolving around BCG alone.




rofl, blackcats is also p2l...



/ignore ;)


As far as I know, the only true P2L site is TorrentLeech.

...and look where they are on the charts.


Now let's look at BitMeTV. The site lags out on popular TV days because the owner is too cheap to upgrade hardware and get better hosting. I wish that no one would give money to BMTV.

Why? If Bitmetv keeps offering something that people are willing to pay for, then it's the user's problem to decide whether or not they want to donate. It's not like it's ever stolen something from you.

...and let me make it clear that I'm not suggesting P2L = success, I'm saying it seems to do good things for a site.

stoi
10-27-2008, 10:15 PM
Well i only know BCG but believe it or not when we started we were the same as TL if TL does what people suggest they do anyway.

But i just hated seeing members donating, and hit and running on a hell of a lot of torrents, then donating again, and just keep doing it over and over again, so we stopped it. It wasnt so much they were getting free ride, it was more there was no sense in uploading anything if most just hit and run on the things

as for BitmeTV, i cant reallyy speak for them, but i know that they are with the same hosts as us, and we are experiencing slowdowns, now we think that is because of the 5200rpm laptop hdds in the servers we have, in a couple of weeks we will know for sure, but if they are having problems as well as us, it may be the Pipe to our servers.

I know we have only got a 10MBs line, and im sure thats all these hosts do, but i am not sure if thats a problem or not, and im also not sure if they only have a 10MBs line as well, but if they have, that may be why it goes on a go slow when it gets really busy (but then it could be any number of things lol) but if it is that, its out of their control really, so you cant really blame the admin if it is that.

respawn40
10-27-2008, 10:24 PM
But you have to admit, exploiting lazy members is a good system :)

Exploiting members of your own site is a good thing :o?

roh101
10-27-2008, 10:28 PM
As a past and hopefully future user of BCG the SP system works you get it pretty fast and you can move on if you like, It also keeps seeders at a high almost all the trackers there have a higher seeder count then leachers. If you allow people to pay it would cuase people to just leach and destroy your trackers on your site.

Now i'm not saying dont try to make money im all for it but think off away to get both (Money and a High seeder count) and you will be happy and you community will be happy in the long run

(I)
10-27-2008, 10:56 PM
If a site wants to go p2l, then there's no problem, but if a site saying that they aren't p2l and they are, then this is the issue

TL is p2l ofc, but it offers latest releases to 150000 human beings, so it's a deal, you upload, VIPs pay, staff offer the effort and earn, what's the prob then

The only useful totally non p2l tracker I've seen is torrentbytes, they only ask for server dues, not even for seed boxes, and treat donors as anybody else, and in the same time offering good contents, pres and speed for 70000 users, of course they having some donations shortage from time to time but this is expected

As for BCG, I don't think it's p2l, with their target announced in the home page, closing the donations after hitting the small target, and the exellent service they offer, they can't be p2l, and about the full sp bonous, I think it's normal, they won't get any donations if they didn't so

bblogs
10-28-2008, 12:51 AM
But you have to admit, exploiting lazy members is a good system :)

Exploiting members of your own site is a good thing :o?

Thanks for your contribution, Mr politically correct. I see no problem with taking money from people who can't be bothered seeding, or feel the urge to continually hit & run.

kingrob
10-28-2008, 12:53 AM
If a site wants to go p2l, then there's no problem, but if a site saying that they aren't p2l and they are, then this is the issue

TL is p2l ofc, but it offers latest releases to 150000 human beings, so it's a deal, you upload, VIPs pay, staff offer the effort and earn, what's the prob then

The only useful totally non p2l tracker I've seen is torrentbytes, they only ask for server dues, not even for seed boxes, and treat donors as anybody else, and in the same time offering good contents, pres and speed for 70000 users, of course they having some donations shortage from time to time but this is expected

As for BCG, I don't think it's p2l, with their target announced in the home page, closing the donations after hitting the small target, and the exellent service they offer, they can't be p2l, and about the full sp bonous, I think it's normal, they won't get any donations if they didn't so

i know i don't post much on fst any more but in this case i will break my own rule
you can say what you like about tl ect tbh i do not mind
but NONE of the admins or staff get payed a penny for the work we put in
all the money donated to tl go's to the site owners
i work on tl for free and have done for 3 years plus now reason is simple i like the site.
so feel free to say what you want about tl but never think for a sec that the staff get payed as that is untrue

danio
10-28-2008, 01:16 AM
If a site wants to go p2l, then there's no problem, but if a site saying that they aren't p2l and they are, then this is the issue

TL is p2l ofc, but it offers latest releases to 150000 human beings, so it's a deal, you upload, VIPs pay, staff offer the effort and earn, what's the prob then

The only useful totally non p2l tracker I've seen is torrentbytes, they only ask for server dues, not even for seed boxes, and treat donors as anybody else, and in the same time offering good contents, pres and speed for 70000 users, of course they having some donations shortage from time to time but this is expected

As for BCG, I don't think it's p2l, with their target announced in the home page, closing the donations after hitting the small target, and the exellent service they offer, they can't be p2l, and about the full sp bonous, I think it's normal, they won't get any donations if they didn't so

i know i don't post much on fst any more but in this case i will break my own rule
you can say what you like about tl ect tbh i do not mind
but NONE of the admins or staff get payed a penny for the work we put in
all the money donated to tl go's to the site owners
i work on tl for free and have done for 3 years plus now reason is simple i like the site.
so feel free to say what you want about tl but never think for a sec that the staff get payed as that is untrue

but the owners profit from it? :) kind of sounds like that's what you're saying. if the staff gets payed or not is not really the question in this thread anyways, but whether a p2l system benefits the tracker or not.

kingrob
10-28-2008, 01:26 AM
i know i don't post much on fst any more but in this case i will break my own rule
you can say what you like about tl ect tbh i do not mind
but NONE of the admins or staff get payed a penny for the work we put in
all the money donated to tl go's to the site owners
i work on tl for free and have done for 3 years plus now reason is simple i like the site.
so feel free to say what you want about tl but never think for a sec that the staff get payed as that is untrue

but the owners profit from it? :) kind of sounds like that's what you're saying. if the staff gets payed or not is not really the question in this thread anyways, but whether a p2l system benefits the tracker or not.

ok i will reply with my view :)

in my view the system that is used on tl works well for tl i do not see it as p2l as when a members vip runs out they must have a ratio over 0.4 like any other member but others do see it as p2l there is no point me debating this as i have done so many times in the past

but what i do know is with the donations tl gets the hardware for the site is kept upto date the site runs fast has content in good times and the speeds are good so in my view the system on tl is good for the users and has worked for almost 4 years now.

bblogs
10-28-2008, 03:05 AM
what i do know is with the donations tl gets the hardware for the site is kept upto date the site runs fast has content in good times and the speeds are good

Which is exactly my point. When TL disabled invites for a while, and the only way to get in was paying for VIP status, most people shunned TL for it, but even if the money is going to the owner then people should get over it. It's a good site.

Funkin'
10-28-2008, 03:38 AM
rofl, blackcats is also p2l...

rofl, you are an idiot...and that's all I'm going to say.

ben99
10-28-2008, 03:51 AM
rofl, blackcats is also p2l...

rofl, you are an idiot...and that's all I'm going to say.

but it was p2l, now by you guys definition, it's not technically p2l, but you do get seeding benefits by donating.

I still can't believe you guys are backing up stoi after all the shit he's done. So many fucking scandals.

1. Staff openly said that they took money from the site, hell Stoi has been earning money from the site.

2. After Oink got busted, Stoi step down immediately. It wasn't until all the Oink shit cooled down that he came back.

When it comes to it, bcg is a sketchy site with a terrible past, if it weren't the only decent games tracker, it would be long gone.

WhoopDeDoo
10-28-2008, 05:28 AM
rofl, you are an idiot...and that's all I'm going to say.

but it was p2l, now by you guys definition, it's not technically p2l, but you do get seeding benefits by donating.

I still can't believe you guys are backing up stoi after all the shit he's done. So many fucking scandals.

1. Staff openly said that they took money from the site, hell Stoi has been earning money from the site.

2. After Oink got busted, Stoi step down immediately. It wasn't until all the Oink shit cooled down that he came back.

When it comes to it, bcg is a sketchy site with a terrible past, if it weren't the only decent games tracker, it would be long gone.

Who cares if he makes money from the site? If they're providing a service that people are damn well willing to pay for then why not let them? You're forgetting that no one is making anyone donate to these sites.

Now as far as whether it's good for these trackers or not, it can be very useful in some ways:

1. Those that actually seed will reap the benefits of having a high ratio, therefore being able to download more.
2. Those that choose to hit & run constantly will eventually run out of money and be required to seed or be banned. If they don't run out of money they're still supporting the tracker by paying its bills and maybe putting some extra change in the owner's pockets.

I don't see anything wrong with p2l personally, but it all depends on having a select few who are willing to do some work and upload, without the uploaders we wouldn't have p2l. In my opinion if anything the uploaders should be paid a small amount for their work.

stoi
10-28-2008, 01:11 PM
rofl, you are an idiot...and that's all I'm going to say.

but it was p2l, now by you guys definition, it's not technically p2l, but you do get seeding benefits by donating.

I still can't believe you guys are backing up stoi after all the shit he's done. So many fucking scandals.

1. Staff openly said that they took money from the site, hell Stoi has been earning money from the site.

2. After Oink got busted, Stoi step down immediately. It wasn't until all the Oink shit cooled down that he came back.

When it comes to it, bcg is a sketchy site with a terrible past, if it weren't the only decent games tracker, it would be long gone.

what the hell are you going on about.

I have never once said or any of my staff said that we take money, or make money, there has been a lot of insinuations, just like you get on most sites, but thats life im afraid.


I had my reasons, and tbh it had nothing to do with the cash, my name was on the server and address, and i couldnt sleep at night, every time a copper passed the house i was ready to bolt out the back door, i just couldnt live like that, and i was always coming back after a month away.

We have been going for 5 years, we have used nearly all of our 9 lives i admit, but we do keep coming back, and for you Information, I dont even think we are the best games tracker, but if we are like you say we are, then that has only been achieved in the last year, so why didnt we not vanish in the 4 years before that.

tbh mate you know fuck all of what goes on, you just hear crap on the grapevine, and take it as gospel. whatever your perogotive, but your opinion is very much deluded.

btw most sites have very sketchy pasts, ours has just basically been, Public tracker, Private tracker, Changed tracker software too early, had to revert back, hacked, hacked again, i left for a month, came back, thats about it, the Owner has never really changed apart from that 1 month, not like some other sites i know of, where the ownership changes quite a lot.

and btw if it wasnt for ME BCG would be long gone, not because it a good tracker, or a crap tracker, 1st 3 years i got 20 in donations and that was from the same member twice lol I could have quite easily jacked it in then, but i kept it going, im not in this for the cash, i dont care about the cash. (people tend to forget the early years though, and just believe whats happening now and all the lies and crap that floats around the net, from ppl that usually have been banned, or just cant get in)

(I)
10-29-2008, 02:08 PM
To stoi, Thanks, your efforts and fears haven't gone, I really appreciate the risk you take :)





......

TL is p2l ofc, but it offers latest releases to 150000 human beings, so it's a deal, you upload, VIPs pay, staff admin offer the effort and earn, what's the prob then..........

i know i don't post much on fst any more but in this case i will break my own rule
you can say what you like about tl ect tbh i do not mind
but NONE of the admins or staff get payed a penny for the work we put in
all the money donated to tl go's to the site owners
i work on tl for free and have done for 3 years plus now reason is simple i like the site.
so feel free to say what you want about tl but never think for a sec that the staff get payed as that is untrue

Sorted, ofc I've never known where the money goes, and the staff is the 1st simplest word coming to ur mind when you post such a post so, sorted