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QPD
11-23-2009, 06:32 PM
Do you think Romania and Israel should ever be allowed again on SCC,SCT and GFT?And what should change in order to make it possible?

Cabalo
11-23-2009, 07:07 PM
What should change? Their mentality (the user's one, not the tracker).
On another note, egypt was banned at elek because over 75% of their users were cheaters. This at a .ro tracker. Go figure.

QPD
11-23-2009, 07:16 PM
And let's say that there are 75% cheaters form .ro. What about the rest 25%.Should they also be punnished? Or should they emmigrate?And don't tell me collateral dammage...I have no valid option here!!!

momassalha
11-23-2009, 07:30 PM
i believe that everyone must get his chance to enter anysite if he work hard to get it ,their is alot of good users in both countries that every staff must take care and give them access not all users at romania and israel and egypt are cheaters and traders there are users that can give alot to any community they enter and those users must get what they deserve like the old users that prove that they r u good and get access to the trackers why they dont give the new users a chance to prove themselves i hope the staff at those trackers read my reply and understand my point and thanks.

QPD
11-23-2009, 07:32 PM
i believe that everyone must get his chance to enter anysite if he work hard to get it ,their is alot of good users in both countries that every staff must take care and give them access not all users at romania and israel and egypt are cheaters and traders there are users that can give alot to any community they enter and those users must get what they deserve like the old users that prove that they r u good and get access to the trackers why they dont give the new users a chance to prove themselves i hope the staff at those trackers read my reply and understand my point and thanks.

The funny thing is that I have (minimum) buffer over 1Tb on all trackers I activate...

momassalha
11-23-2009, 07:41 PM
Do you think Romania and Israel should ever be allowed again on SCC,SCT and GFT?And what should change in order to make it possible?

i have an idea that a lot of trackers use it to take good user and ban the bad users they can interview us.
not all users the users that desreve to be interviewed and the user can decide if he desreve or not by his work to get in the tracker and work hard to get what he want and when he reach the point that they believe that its he is good they can interview him its simple and good for both users that have something to give to others and staff.

Cabalo
11-23-2009, 07:45 PM
i believe that everyone must get his chance to enter anysite if he work hard to get it ,their is alot of good users in both countries that every staff must take care and give them access not all users at romania and israel and egypt are cheaters and traders there are users that can give alot to any community they enter and those users must get what they deserve like the old users that prove that they r u good and get access to the trackers why they dont give the new users a chance to prove themselves i hope the staff at those trackers read my reply and understand my point and thanks.
The fact they gave the users a chance to prove themselves is the reason why they are banning them now, no ?
If they don't give them the chance, then they won't face potential problems, i suppose.
Not that I agree with the theory about banning entire countries, but when they present such arguments, as these 75%, what can one say?

momassalha
11-23-2009, 07:53 PM
^^^
there is a lot of il and ro users that are members at sct and have access to them at this time why those have access and another that there is a possiblity that there are better dont get access to those trackers i agree with u that not all users must have access to those trackers they must choose good users and there is alot of ways to do that.

QPD
11-23-2009, 07:53 PM
The fact they gave the users a chance to prove themselves is the reason why they are banning them now, no ?
If they don't give them the chance, then they won't face potential problems, i suppose.
Not that I agree with the theory about banning entire countries, but when they present such arguments, as these 75%, what can one say?

Cabalo, what you say is true , and a safe bet, but immagine if this would apply to wounded soldiers in a war...

There are a lot of simple precedures to prevent this,For example:

1.Controll the .ro invitations with speedtest, reccomendations and ohter trackers activity ( or forums activity )
2.Ban the inviter along with the invited one (in case of faking or other missbehaviour).This way the inviter will be more prudent in choosing his invitees.

I am a former admin on a 10k+ user tracker.I know that it;s not hard to put this in practice.

momassalha
11-23-2009, 07:54 PM
The fact they gave the users a chance to prove themselves is the reason why they are banning them now, no ?
If they don't give them the chance, then they won't face potential problems, i suppose.
Not that I agree with the theory about banning entire countries, but when they present such arguments, as these 75%, what can one say?

Cabalo, what you say is true , and a safe bet, but immagine if this would apply to wounded soldiers in a war...

There are a lot of simple precedures to prevent this,For example:

1.Controll the .ro invitations with speedtest, reccomendations and ohter trackers activity ( or forums activity )
2.Ban the inviter along with the invited one (in case of faking or other missbehaviour).This way the inviter will be more prudent in choosing his invitees.

I am a former admin on a 10k+ user tracker.I know that it;s not hard to put this in practice.
i agree with u.

lol87
11-23-2009, 07:54 PM
It's not fair to punish the ones who are not cheating. I think that Israel was banned for political reasons and/or for cheating.

Romanian users are causing too much problems for most international private trackers. Users are keep inviting cheaters ( mostly Romanians ) and this takes a lot of resources for the staff to deal with.

Many private trackers have issued a warning to Romanian users for the cheating issue. Bitmetv has warned their users to stop cheating, referring specially to Romanian users.

I personally have accounts on 2 Romanian trackers ( filelist and extremeshare ). I don't even like to use them, since it's very obvious that lots of them are cheating. When I download torrents from the *.Ro sites, then my download speed is low ( typically 200 kb/s ) and my upload speed is high (1,3Mb/s). Other Romanian users are downloading at 3-4 Mb/s and I’m downloading at 200 kb/s. This only happens with Romanian trackers. I am owner of a 100/10 Mbit connection.

Swift
11-23-2009, 08:00 PM
they already banned us , it's hard now to create a good image again and for them to unban us because what would the other users say : weak staff , easly influenced .
I hope they will come to a good conclusion and lift the ban's and individually ban users because i don't think that users will make the same mistake twice at least I hope not.

I wish good luck to all and hope this thread doesn't get flammed.

QPD
11-23-2009, 08:01 PM
It's not fair to punish the ones who are not cheating. I think that Israel was banned for political reasons and/or for cheating.

Romanian users are causing too much problems for most international private trackers. Users are keep inviting cheaters ( mostly Romanians ) and this takes a lot of resources for the staff to deal with.

Many private trackers have issued a warning to Romanian users for the cheating issue. Bitmetv has warned their users to stop cheating, referring specially to Romanian users.

I personally have accounts on 2 Romanian trackers ( filelist and extremeshare ). I don't even like to use them, since it's very obvious that lots of them are cheating. When I download torrents from the *.Ro sites, then my download speed is low ( typically 200 kb/s ) and my upload speed is high (1,3Mb/s). Other Romanian users are downloading at 3-4 Mb/s and I’m downloading at 200 kb/s. This only happens with Romanian trackers. I am owner of a 100/10 Mbit connection.

I belive you, but I cannot take my wife, quit my job and move to Sweden ( although I would like to). I am just seeking for another viable solution...


they already banned us , it's hard now to create a good image again and for them to unban us because what would the other users say : weak staff , easly influenced .
I hope they will come to a good conclusion and lift the ban's and individually ban users because i don't think that users will make the same mistake twice at least I hope not.

I wish good luck to all and hope this thread doesn't get flammed.

Honestly i belive that after 20 years since the dictatorship ended here, the people did not learm much.But opressing the inncocent ones along with the masses completly ruin any chance of progress...

Swift
11-23-2009, 08:33 PM
We will not know anything untill a staff from the above mentioned trackers reply here.

QPD
11-23-2009, 08:36 PM
We will not know anything untill a staff from the above mentioned trackers reply here.
Pretty sure they will not!
I am more interested in member's opinion here.Changes won't happen soon...but if more members are aware of that, things might move in the favorable manner.

Swift
11-23-2009, 08:39 PM
Yes the opinion of all users is welcome'd.

Bad-Day
11-23-2009, 08:44 PM
Execptions should be made. Fact.

If they want, they can use their seedboxes ip, to enter such sites, i did it on bitmtv while, us portuguese were banned, and will, do it again! once we get banned again.

Romanians, i have met some great guys over at Iplay, theyre stuff is remarkably friendly, and very helpfull! Czone was great also, there are many cheaters and traders everywhere, the difference is, they know how to do things better.

Ps: The biggest cancer, on p2p. - S B I N N O V A T I O N - Is german! And u dont seed germans being globally banned from anywere do you ?


Anon - G O F U C X Yourself :)

lol87
11-23-2009, 09:07 PM
Ps: The biggest cancer, on p2p. - S B I N N O V A T I O N - Is german! And u dont seed germans being globally banned from anywere do you ?

I don't understand you. What do you mean? That Germans are the worst cheaters?

Cabalo
11-23-2009, 09:15 PM
They're known for creating fake clients.

QPD
11-23-2009, 09:19 PM
They're known for creating fake clients.

Bottom line: not creators are bad, but the ones who uses it.I agree to that.
But why should I pay for somebody else's mistakes?

susiserken
11-23-2009, 09:57 PM
I belive you, but I cannot take my wife, quit my job and move to Sweden ( although I would like to). I am just seeking for another viable solution...


U cant download the exact same stuff from other trackers? or is pre times and teh leetnes that important to you that you cant use other trackers?

hagckz0r
11-23-2009, 10:22 PM
I am the blue son of Obama, the RO Obama, and I request immediate ban lifting for RO's.

anon
11-23-2009, 10:55 PM
Ps: The biggest cancer, on p2p. - S B I N N O V A T I O N - Is german! And u dont seed germans being globally banned from anywere do you ?


Anon - G O F U C X Yourself :)

I bet you weren't expecting a reply. :P

Cabalo
11-23-2009, 11:03 PM
well, you guys at sb-i do know you're harming an entire filesharing method with what you do?
You are in part responsible for people from countries with small bandwidth to cheat their way into some trackers, thus causing the good users to be banned.

anon
11-23-2009, 11:14 PM
Things aren't as black as white as you may think. Should have a look at our "why do you cheat" thread. It's not cheating that hurts trackers - but hit & run that does. A lot of us do actually try to give back by uploading, but sometimes it just isn't enough.

And I have always thought country bans are for lazy admins that prefer making one click and shut the door for everyone over actually making efforts to ban cheaters.

Cabalo
11-23-2009, 11:17 PM
But the concept of sharing has evolved, and now there are plenty of ratioless sites, plus RS links, plus newsgroups, plus emule, plus DC etc etc.
There's no explanation nowadays to defend the use of such clients.

And how does a hit n runner creates the need to use a fake client? It will even make people more able to send data, as there is one less seeder on the swarm, thus making it easier for everyone else to seed.

anon
11-23-2009, 11:42 PM
Ratioless sites: you're right. I totally respect these and have never cheated there. If you can't simply leave your client open for 48/72 hours, you shouldn't be a part of them in the first place.
Rapidshare: even though I do have access to one, a lot of people don't have a Premium account. And you probably know that as a free user you have to deal with a speed limit, very annoying wait times, and the fact that they "don't" always have enough slots.
Newsgroups: you have to pay for access to most of them. Isn't this the same as Pay2Leech?
eMule: it's a great resource for rare files - however, speeds leave a lot to be desired.
DC: never tried it, so I couldn't tell.

If you need an explanation to cheat, take sites like ScT. There's a thread right on this board about how they reached 190MB/s, which is 9500 times my upload speed of 20kB/s. On my eyes, such sites simply don't need me to seed.


And how does a hit n runner creates the need to use a fake client? It will even make people more able to send data, as there is one less seeder on the swarm, thus making it easier for everyone else to seed.

Needless to say, someone that takes without giving back ruins the whole concept of sharing. Of course, the people that uploaded to him will have their upload counted, but it'd be a lot better if he joined the seeders to make the torrent faster for everyone. My point was:

1. someone snatches a torrent and seeds. He manages to upload. 1.0 ratio.
2. someone snatches a torrent having cheated on it, but seeds. He manages to upload. 1.0 (real) ratio.

There's no difference. So I'd say cheating itself isn't the problem, but how some people handle the fact they no longer have to really seed back.

And about this:

You have received an infraction worth 5 point(s).
Reason: Disabled Privileges
-------
Dupe account of Icarus.

I don't even know who Icarus is. However, I'm not stupid enough to use my real IP on FST. It's probably the latter that triggered your multiple account detector.

IdolEyes787
11-24-2009, 12:11 AM
If you need an explanation to cheat, take sites like ScT. There's a thread right on this board about how they reached 190MB/s, which is 9500 times my upload speed of 20kB/s. On my eyes, such sites simply don't need me to seed.


Wtf does that have to do with the price of tea in China?
In reality the true reason why someone like you cheats is far different than that.:dry:

QPD
11-24-2009, 07:38 AM
I belive you, but I cannot take my wife, quit my job and move to Sweden ( although I would like to). I am just seeking for another viable solution...


U cant download the exact same stuff from other trackers? or is pre times and teh leetnes that important to you that you cant use other trackers?

It's not about that I don't have other accounts, It's the apperheid that enoys me.If you don't know the term google it!

Benjamin
11-24-2009, 07:47 AM
Do you think Romania and Israel should ever be allowed again on SCC,SCT and GFT?

No, keep them banned.

QPD
11-24-2009, 10:18 AM
Do you think Romania and Israel should ever be allowed again on SCC,SCT and GFT?

No, keep them banned.
Oh how I whish you were born in Africa...Sudan or Ciad.Even Congo would suffice.And yes, you should remain white!

And then talk...

Swift
11-24-2009, 10:37 AM
No, keep them banned.
Oh how I whish you were born in Africa...Sudan or Ciad.Even Congo would suffice.And yes, you should remain white!

And then talk...

he's not from USA so don't worry.

QPD
11-24-2009, 10:45 AM
Oh how I whish you were born in Africa...Sudan or Ciad.Even Congo would suffice.And yes, you should remain white!

And then talk...

he's not from USA so don't worry.

It doesn't matter where is he from.His mentality ennoyed me...

ovisan
11-24-2009, 11:20 AM
The yank was just messing about QPD.

SCT is the best scene tracker. [full stop]
I agree that banning a whole country is not fair but I am pretty sure that decision whas not taken over night. And above all SCT is not a public tracker, it is private, it is Feeling's tracker. He can do whatever he wants with it, he can take it down, he can ban half of the world's countries, he can ban top users without reason. Also if the MPAA will catch him we will not hear about him for a pretty long time I guess, power implies taking risks.
So let's respect him and his decisions and move on, there are many brilliant trackers, good speed, community, anything you need and guess what: they accept Romanian users.

Benjamin
11-24-2009, 12:38 PM
he's not from USA so don't worry.

I'm actually from Romania, but I am still using ScT because I don't cheat or trade.

anon
11-24-2009, 01:06 PM
Wtf does that have to do with the price of tea in China?
In reality the true reason why someone like you cheats is far different than that.:dry:

Have to do with what? :huh: I think my point was quite clear. 90% of ScT's users have seedboxes or 100Mbit lines. I don't see the need to seed with my crappy upload speed.

And please define how someone like me is.

Bubbles
11-24-2009, 01:53 PM
The yank was just messing about QPD.

SCT is the best scene tracker. [full stop]
I agree that banning a whole country is not fair but I am pretty sure that decision whas not taken over night. And above all SCT is not a public tracker, it is private, it is Feeling's tracker. He can do whatever he wants with it, he can take it down, he can ban half of the world's countries, he can ban top users without reason. Also if the MPAA will catch him we will not hear about him for a pretty long time I guess, power implies taking risks.
So let's respect him and his decisions and move on, there are many brilliant trackers, good speed, community, anything you need and guess what: they accept Romanian users.

Oh there you have it, wise comment. His house, his rules.

QPD
11-24-2009, 01:57 PM
The yank was just messing about QPD.

SCT is the best scene tracker. [full stop]
I agree that banning a whole country is not fair but I am pretty sure that decision whas not taken over night. And above all SCT is not a public tracker, it is private, it is Feeling's tracker. He can do whatever he wants with it, he can take it down, he can ban half of the world's countries, he can ban top users without reason. Also if the MPAA will catch him we will not hear about him for a pretty long time I guess, power implies taking risks.
So let's respect him and his decisions and move on, there are many brilliant trackers, good speed, community, anything you need and guess what: they accept Romanian users.

Oh there you have it, wise comment. His house, his rules.

please read my previous posts...I AM INTERESTED IN USER'S OPINION!

If i wanted staff opinion I could have PM'd them...

TrollinThunder
11-24-2009, 02:06 PM
To sleep, perchance to dream of FTN.

IdolEyes787
11-24-2009, 02:22 PM
Wtf does that have to do with the price of tea in China?
In reality the true reason why someone like you cheats is far different than that.:dry:

Have to do with what? :huh: I think my point was quite clear. 90% of ScT's users have seedboxes or 100Mbit lines. I don't see the need to seed with my crappy upload speed.

And please define how someone like me is.

With why you cheat.
And since I don't know you I cannot say definitively what kind of person you are but at the risk of generalization I would say that the vast majority of people you cheat or steal don't do it out of necessity.

Swift
11-24-2009, 02:28 PM
he's not from USA so don't worry.

I'm actually from Romania, but I am still using ScT because I don't cheat or trade.

Ok then I didn't really care but anyway good luck


To sleep, perchance to dream of FTN.

every post of your seems familiar :lol:

QPD
11-24-2009, 02:57 PM
Have to do with what? :huh: I think my point was quite clear. 90% of ScT's users have seedboxes or 100Mbit lines. I don't see the need to seed with my crappy upload speed.

And please define how someone like me is.

With why you cheat.
And since I don't know you I cannot say definitively what kind of person you are but at the risk of generalization I would say that the vast majority of people you cheat or steal don't do it out of necessity.

You are perfectly right, that's why I don't belive in sudden change about .ro banning.The question is what should the rest of us do...

Benjamin
11-24-2009, 03:26 PM
Ok then I didn't really care but anyway good luck


Jokes.




Have to do with what? :huh: I think my point was quite clear. 90% of ScT's users have seedboxes or 100Mbit lines. I don't see the need to seed with my crappy upload speed.


I was keeping 1:1 ratio on ScT with SBC DSL 20kb/s upload . You have no idea what you're doing.

Bad-Day
11-24-2009, 04:41 PM
Ps: The biggest cancer, on p2p. - S B I N N O V A T I O N - Is german! And u dont seed germans being globally banned from anywere do you ?


Anon - G O F U C X Yourself :)

I bet you weren't expecting a reply. :P

:w00t::w00t::w00t::w00t::w00t::w00t::w00t: ANON !!!!!!!!! OMFG Is it really you?

Geeeez great to see you in here my friend!

Ps: I know that if i called you names, you would eventually came out and play :D

PS: i have never cheated ok. beleive it or not i dont give a fuck, and i dotn support it.

do not quote me.



They're known for creating fake clients.

Bottom line: not creators are bad, but the ones who uses it.I agree to that.
But why should I pay for somebody else's mistakes?

The same reason 60% off romanians doesnt mean 100% off romanians.

Do u need a draw ? i can draw u a pic if u like.:dry:





Have to do with what? :huh: I think my point was quite clear. 90% of ScT's users have seedboxes or 100Mbit lines. I don't see the need to seed with my crappy upload speed.

And please define how someone like me is.

With why you cheat.
And since I don't know you I cannot say definitively what kind of person you are but at the risk of generalization I would say that the vast majority of people you cheat or steal don't do it out of necessity.

Hes cool, unfortanly hes connected to that place but hes cool!

can u reenable is privs please ?


well, you guys at sb-i do know you're harming an entire filesharing method with what you do?
You are in part responsible for people from countries with small bandwidth to cheat their way into some trackers, thus causing the good users to be banned.

From a guy ( cabalo ) who his a mod on a forum, that allows trading, you re being an hypocrite the size off the empire state bulding.:lol:

anon
11-24-2009, 05:18 PM
And since I don't know you I cannot say definitively what kind of person you are

Probably the most sensible comment I have read so far.


but at the risk of generalization I would say that the vast majority of people you cheat or steal don't do it out of necessity.

People like that exist, although I don't think it's the vast majority. Either way, those of us that are experienced enough will also shun the ones that cheat just because they can, or think flashing a few PBs is cool.


I was keeping 1:1 ratio on ScT with SBC DSL 20kb/s upload . You have no idea what you're doing.

I never said it was impossible, but if you're talking about legit seeding, I have enough knowledge about how BitTorrent and P2P in general work. I know how to be connectable, fine tune my client, and which torrents to jump on. I only meant that for the average user with a normal upload speed that doesn't want to spend a lifetime seeding, getting a good buffer at ScT is next to impossible - in the short term, at least - when torrents jump from 1 seeder to 40 while you're 3% done.


:w00t::w00t::w00t::w00t::w00t::w00t::w00t: ANON !!!!!!!!! OMFG Is it really you?

Geeeez great to see you in here my friend!

Yes, it's me. Do I know you?


Hes cool, unfortanly hes connected to that place but hes cool!

can u reenable is privs please ?

I'm not interested on editing my profile, sending PMs or accesing the trading area (I don't even trade), so why should he? Furthermore, "Disabled Privs" looks much better than "n00b". :cool:

Bad-Day
11-24-2009, 05:22 PM
in 30 days no one will be able to pm you. duh!

anon
11-24-2009, 05:24 PM
That's too bad, I guess.

QPD
11-24-2009, 05:28 PM
Why dont you move your reunions outside this topic?
The original theme was :
Do you think Romania and Israel should ever be allowed again on SCC,SCT and GFT?And what should change in order to make it possible?

IdolEyes787
11-24-2009, 05:43 PM
Maybe Romulans need to stop telling other people what to do?:idunno:






You are in part responsible for people from countries with small bandwidth to cheat their way into some trackers,.


Leave out the word cheat and it seems to be almost a saintly act.:OOf course leave the words "She was brutally raped " out this sentence " and then she had a lovely baby"and it doesn't sound kinda heart-warming too.
Anyway some sites are unreasonable and apparently run by idiots ,some cheaters are probably decent people, the average torrenter cares only about others so far as it effects himself and believe it or not apparently some Canadian mods are cawks .(I know I'm shocked by the last one as well)
Now that we have that all clear could someone explain to the OP why life isn't fair so that we may all move on.
Btw clearly anon-sbi isn't a dupe account but since Cabalo gave the infraction it's Cabalo decision whether to re-enable the account or not.

anon
11-24-2009, 07:05 PM
Why dont you move your reunions outside this topic?

FST is notorious for the constant off-topic discussions inside threads, but I'll try to stay on topic :P


Do you think Romania and Israel should ever be allowed again on SCC,SCT and GFT?And what should change in order to make it possible?

Yes. I don't think country bans are the solution. Cheaters come from all sides of the world, and it's not fair to ban a whole country just because a lot of members coming from it wanted to see what happened if they grabbed their ratio cheating tool (I'll try to keep it cool, so I won't mention names) and faked 1000GB in one minute. Also, I have read on TL's FAQ that at least one Israeli ISP modifies your tracker announces to report millions of terabytes of upload, to get you banned and thus save international bandwidth. It's possible that a lot of people from that country were banned for this "cheating" a.k.a. violation of Net neutrality, while they have no real control over that, other than using SSL trackers if the site allows it.

How to make it possible:
Implement actual anti-cheating scripts ("detect abnormal uploads" doesn't count). Make them warn the staffers if someone is caught, and have one of them review the case. Don't act like on BitMeTV, where they once banned a donor with a good ratio beacuse their anti-cheat picked up Vuze's latest version as a cheat mod (there's a well-known Vuze mod to disable uploading, cheat, and spoof other clients, but he wasn't using that).

When someone is caught for the first time, give them a warning and remove their fake upload, like a few trackers have done with me back when I was new to cheating. Perhaps the guy will change his mind and start seeding honestly, and if he doesn't, ban him - you won't have wasted but 5 minutes.

If you want to keep track of ratios, that's fine - but mathematically, it's impossible for everyone to have one above 1.0 if we take real upload as the only factor that can increase it. Implement a system where simply seeding counts, like BCG's Seed Points, for example. I only cheated there very few times, and it was to know if certain mods and tools worked. After that, I simply left my client open to gain SP and survive honestly. What I like about them is that the torrent's size is taken into consideration when calculating how much time you'll have to seed it for, so it won't be the same for a 10MB mobile game pack as with the latest PC game weighting 10GB.

Bonus points and/or a ratio-free system are also cool, although I think you should have enough activity on your tracker before switching to the latter.

As I see it, you need to basically give users an incentive to seed that doesn't consist on "do or die". Those of you that think "so you want to let people leech GBs by just leaving their client open" can make the amount of both real and "artificial" upload traffic be shown in profiles. This way you can know exactly how much you've really uploaded, and if you could be doing better at real seeding.

There have also been more suggestions on how to make the system more fair to everyone. These two are from Bram Cohen, the BitTorrent protocol's creator:

"A better approach would be to not count it against people when they download from heavily overseeded torrents. Or to just not use total upload/download ratios at all, or if you do only make them advisory and not a source of banning"

"When a client reports new downloads to the tracker, the tracker can multiply the amount by (number of current peers total - number of current seeds) / (number of current peers total) and add that to the 'total downloaded'. This results in most people having a 'ratio' of more than 1, but that isn't actually a problem unless you're more interested in mathematical purity than practical behavior."

And I found these on the Azureus wiki:

* Cap the ratio someone can achieve and discard any amount of upload until they fall below it again
* Weight bytes uploaded/downloaded accounting by the seed to peer ratio of the swarm, this will encourage seeding on swarms in need, allow people to download from overseeded swarms without (huge) penalty, discourage leeching from swarms in need, discourage overseeding since it's less rewareded
* apply the same penalties that apply to low ratios to ratios that are too high (this may seem counterintuitive but would force everyone to stay within a certain ratio window)
* dynamically adjust the rules based on the global statistics... if 1 person overseeds to a 2.0 ratio someone else could have a free ride or the whole community can stay below 1.0 on average.


Source: http://www.azureuswiki.com/index.php/User:The8472/Private_trackers

Based on the "why do you cheat" thread on SB-I, the top reasons why people cheat would be:
1. having a crappy upload speed
2. not having a seedbox or money to rent one to make up for that
3. the Internet "stops" when they run their BitTorrent client
4. having an ISP traffic cap/sandvining
5. they don't think the tracker deserves their upload
6. the "thrill of the chase"
7. he only wants to leech

How I think you can deal with them:
1. what I mentioned above + what's on point 3 - sometimes people can't upload as much as their connection allows them to simply because of bad settings. Also make sure users know about uTP, uTorrent's UDP torrenting protocol. With it, you can leave your upload speed limit set to unlimited and still surf/chat/etc. almost lag-free. This gives a great incentive to seed, just leave the icon in the tray and work as you improve your ratio.
2. inform the user about cheap seedbox resellers. Go to point 1 if that's still not within his reach.
3. have a topic about correct client settings and port forwarding in the tracker's forum. Some people are simply unaware they shouldn't set uTorrent to make a maximum of 1000 connections when they have a cheap router on an average Broadband connection. Highlight its importance (via a System PM everyone gets when joining, for example) and make sure they read it.
4. check if the possibility of renting a seedbox or changing his ISP is within reach. Give him the possibility of using another IP that's not capped (a friend's, for example) for torrenting. In the case of sandvining, inform users about how uTP can't be shaped, or uTP transfers reset.
5. have a look at how you're handling things. Perhaps the thought is justified? (Many users with fast lines, a huge userbase where 2000 others will seed if he doesn't, etc.)
6. banning and improving your scripts every time will just make him want to get another invite to see if a new mod/method works. I guess there's no real solution, other than waiting until he gets tired of it.
7. making sure the user knows he's not on a One-Click Hoster or Usenet where he can download anything without uploading, and ask him to retire if he doesn't get it.

tippertime
11-24-2009, 07:22 PM
it may not be fair to ban people who have not had a chance to prove themselves...but it is a lot of work to keep tabs on people and check all the abnormals the tracker reports...75% is just too high of a number to justify the work finding good members

Bad-Day
11-24-2009, 07:28 PM
@ anon And this is why ;) youre a genius. :)

anon
11-24-2009, 07:46 PM
75% is just too high of a number to justify the work finding good members

Then find the bad ones instead. :D

The_Martinator
11-24-2009, 08:00 PM
I've heard from a staffer that over 80% of Romanian users got banned at his tracker.

Here's a story (a true one at that):

A Romanian user comes into IRC. Says: "How much to lift the Romanian global ban? Everyone's got a price."

I don't agree with banning whole countries, btw, but there's one thing you're forgetting, OP; torrenting is a hobby for people (even for staffers who do have RL jobs). So their time is limited plus the "budget" is limited. Not so with countries at war (well, all budgets are limited in some way, but you get what I mean).

sez
11-24-2009, 09:34 PM
A villain yes but you can't take the fact that he's a genius away from him.Like its got to take a real whiz to re-mod BT clients they way he does although I wish he could transfer that energy into developing safer torrent clients for the wider BT community.
This was originally intended to be a flame post but I kinda feel that for his articulacy he does transcend the slight(plus I don't feel like going first lol).

The way I see it,its just like the way xtians see pigs as bacon and sausages while muslims consider them to be evil or something.

Simply put,we've been cultured differently.That and the fact that not all of us get to have choices to reality.

That said,I think he made a pretty descent argument as to why some people cheat,especially on scT a case that if am to disagree with,I'd maybe do so as a matter of principle.

I think he should post more often.I've enjoyed reading him.
Wonder what's his take on invite/account trading?

On a much more serious note,like really serious,I think they should get rid of country bans and start banning people by nationality.Its not like everyone who lives in romania is romanian.I've heard of romanians telling gypsies to get out of their country,wonder what's up with that.

And you know its the fuckin internet here.Assumptions are everything.If statistics say that 75 % of romanians BT users are bad users then they just assume that the other 25% are those that haven't yet been caught.
Appealing to human emotion isn't gonna help you.As far as they are concerned numbers don't lie.Besides if you were actually a good romanian user,chances are that they would have spared you just like they did the other good romanian users.Life is unfair you just gotta deal.

QPD
11-24-2009, 10:20 PM
And you know its the fuckin internet here.Assumptions are everything.If statistics say that 75 % of romanians BT users are bad users then they just assume that the other 25% are those that haven't yet been caught.
Appealing to human emotion isn't gonna help you.As far as they are concerned numbers don't lie.Besides if you were actually a good romanian user,chances are that they would have spared you just like they did the other good romanian users.Life is unfair you just gotta deal.


Where did you guys take that 75%bad users from?

Why banning the inviter along with the one who cheat is not a viable solution?I am 100% sure that the inviters will be more than carefull who do they invite! ( On this matter I'd like to hear a staffer opinion )

That1Guy
11-24-2009, 10:27 PM
I think the problem is that when you ban someone. They may have a dynamic ip and just get another account and do it again. If there are a large number of people doing it in a region then to keep them out you end up having to ban huge IP ranges.

If it is a tiny tracker that has a small amount of members then it is easier for staff to keep tabs. But when you have 10,000 plus members I can see why some trackers think it's just not worth the work. I'm not saying I agree with banning countries, but I dont think the sites that do it are doing it for fun or something.

emperorIX
11-24-2009, 10:40 PM
I would have to agree with the country bans if the stats show that the vast majority are bad users. Like was mentioned earlier, those individuals running the trackers we all use do have real lives to live and can't spend all of their time monitoring each and every user. It only makes sense to institute such broad bans.

As for cheating, I am of the mindset that cheaters do not deserve a second chance. These are private communities after all with their own rules of conduct. Why would a community such as ScT or SCC tolerate a cheater when a good user is more than willing to take their place? If someone can't follow the rules of any private community (online or irl), they simply do not belong there.

Also, afaik, some country bans were not instituted only based on the amount of ratio cheaters or traders, but also because of the large amount of credit card fraud involved in those countries (donations), which has much more serious implications than simply cheating one's ratio.

anon
11-24-2009, 10:46 PM
@sez: Thanks for your kind words. They mean a lot. If you want to see our users' stances on the matter, you can read this thread:

http://SB-I URL/f56/cheating-etiquette-15523/
I don't know if it's OK to post the full address, but it probably isn't, and since I want to "keep it cool" I'll leave it at that. You can probably Google your way through it anyway, just like we're first for many "cheating on (tracker name)" queries.

Tracker staff are against trading because invites were meant to get your friends and/or trusted people inside, not to get you inside other sites, in a lot of cases by trading with unknowns. What's to prevent someone from an anti-P2P company to make an account here (or on any trading board, I'm not attacking FST), make some posts, wait enough until you can access the BitTorrent Trades area, then start trading or applying for giveaways, and harvest IPs once he's in? There's rep, but that's a simple "the more the better" indicator of who's given a lot of invites away, or is less likely to scam you. And don't say "but the ranges they use are known" - IP filters are not and will never be 100% perfect, and if they were, they could simply "work" at home instead. Also, traders, just like cheaters, aren't "always caught" as the admins of trackers and invite forums (many of which have allowed trading in the past) want you to think. If you know how to do things correctly and take a few basic steps to ensure your security, no one but you and the person you traded with will know how you made your way in. I mean, I recently got two new accounts after being banned at a site claiming their technology for detecting dupes is beyond description.

But enough about that. I'll write my thoughts on the matter. I don't trade myself, but fail to see the problem with it if you do it with someone you know and trust, which ideally you should. If you care about the security of the tracker (whose members are kind enough to provide you with what you download), you won't do it with people you don't even know just because they have a good offer, or that high-level site you've always dreamed of having. (I have never understood what's the urge to get on sites that are difficult to get an invite to. Basically, BitTorrent is about getting your stuff, which you can do regardless of a tracker being level 2 or 10. It's sad to see how many people claim certain great ones are crap just because they're low in the levels list. Personally, I've never seen a good reason to prefer using ScT over TL, or BitMeTV over TvT.com) Traders that seem to do almost anything to get inside rare sites (like that one guy that created so many stupid threads here, for example) are just pathetic. Most of the time they'll only keep their account alive to be able to say "I'm at X" (as if there was a prize to that...), using the slot of someone that would actually participate.

About safer BitTorrent clients... private trackers should be glad stats are actually reported in the first place. We could say that was implemented "just because", since back in the day they weren't used for absolutely anything. Some developers do show support for private trackers, though - to give some examples, BT Inc. made uTorrent "forget" about all peers if you edit the tracker list for private torrents - it takes editing 7 bytes inside the EXE to bypass this, though. The Vuze team also recently fixed the "feature" that hammered trackers when they didn't return peers, after one of our coders pointed this out on a news thread. If you have any ideas to make clients safer I, as well as developers, would be interested to know them. :)

@emperorIX: that's a good argument. Let's just say communities such as ScT or SCC won't notice the difference.

mievmo
11-24-2009, 10:59 PM
GFT, didn't ban Israel.

rubix
11-24-2009, 11:05 PM
The entire attitude that "i own a seedbox, i don't cheat, i don't sell invites or trade so i'm a good users and hence deserve a spot in any tracker i wish" is messed up.

just understand that you are a "guest" to private tracker and it'll make your torrent experience much easier. You do NOT deserve to be a member in any torrent sites. If you are part of one, be glad of it. Get that in your head by all means necessary. If you must, write that out in a piece of paper, cut your brain out, put the paper in, and seal your brain up.

anon
11-24-2009, 11:07 PM
Yep. I suppose access to private trackers "is a privilege, not a right" and can "be revoked from you at any time".

OlegL
07-17-2010, 09:51 PM
If you need an explanation to cheat, take sites like ScT. There's a thread right on this board about how they reached 190MB/s, which is 9500 times my upload speed of 20kB/s. On my eyes, such sites simply don't need me to seed.


That's not the point. The point is that you don't have a moral right to cheat. When you cheat, you send fake data to a tracker and it doesn't matter that some people have the upload speed that can reach 190 MB/sec.

anon
07-17-2010, 09:55 PM
When you cheat, you send fake data to a tracker

Nope, I just edit a base 10 integer sent in the query string. You can do this with just telnet and notepad, actually.


and it doesn't matter that some people have the upload speed that can reach 190 MB/sec.

I think it does. They can make up for this "damage" my leeching does in literally seconds.

Quarterquack
07-17-2010, 10:00 PM
you don't have a moral right to cheat.

This again.

You are a pirate. You are on this board specifically because you don't abide by the morality rules set in place by society; and go as far as downloading material illegally to ignore those rules. Who do you think you are determining what other people's moral impediments should be?

Please. If you're going to argue that cheating is wrong; then say that it's because it's cheating. It's not how the system works. They are not working for what other people spend months to do. Etc etc etc. Give a legitimate reason, not some verbal nonsense that's supposed to pry on a pirate's non-existent sense of self-righteousness.

Then again, religions thrive on this sort of bollocks.

caoh
07-17-2010, 10:22 PM
you don't have a moral right to cheat.

This again.

You are a pirate. You are on this board specifically because you don't abide by the morality rules set in place by society; and go as far as downloading material illegally to ignore those rules. Who do you think you are determining what other people's moral impediments should be?

Please. If you're going to argue that cheating is wrong; then say that it's because it's cheating. It's not how the system works. They are not working for what other people spend months to do. Etc etc etc. Give a legitimate reason, not some verbal nonsense that's supposed to pry on a pirate's non-existent sense of self-righteousness.

Then again, religions thrive on this sort of bollocks.

That so? Download some files, forfeit right to any moral standards whatsoever. So: no authority to comment on rapists, child killers, terrorists and the like. After all, we've broken society's pact. No different than anyone else who has, really.

I assume jaywalkers should shut the hell up as well. Damn scofflaws.

Aristocles
07-17-2010, 11:28 PM
This again.

You are a pirate. You are on this board specifically because you don't abide by the morality rules set in place by society; and go as far as downloading material illegally to ignore those rules. Who do you think you are determining what other people's moral impediments should be?

Please. If you're going to argue that cheating is wrong; then say that it's because it's cheating. It's not how the system works. They are not working for what other people spend months to do. Etc etc etc. Give a legitimate reason, not some verbal nonsense that's supposed to pry on a pirate's non-existent sense of self-righteousness.

Then again, religions thrive on this sort of bollocks.

That so? Download some files, forfeit right to any moral standards whatsoever. So: no authority to comment on rapists, child killers, terrorists and the like. After all, we've broken society's pact. No different than anyone else who has, really.

I assume jaywalkers should shut the hell up as well. Damn scofflaws.

This is an appropriate reply to the argument that one "finds no honor among thieves".

Of course one can find a certain ethos among certain criminals. There are certain dictates that even the most hardened of confederated criminals do not violate. Call it the 'moral code' of the confederated criminal.

It's still the old adage about oxen and goring :blink:

Quarterquack
07-18-2010, 12:48 AM
That so? Download some files, forfeit right to any moral standards whatsoever. So: no authority to comment on rapists, child killers, terrorists and the like. After all, we've broken society's pact. No different than anyone else who has, really.

I assume jaywalkers should shut the hell up as well. Damn scofflaws.

You know, mockery only works when you have an understanding of the subject. I didn't say cheating was right. I didn't say it was wrong, either. And you're welcome to point me out to where I hinted at the slightest of what it should be or whether it should be allowed. I didn't point out the moral implications of an immoral individual talking about ethics. I don't give a rats ass about any of those subjects.

What I do have a problem with are hypocrites. This must be the thousandth time I'm explaining it but here it goes. We are pirates, we discard the rules society imposes on us. And yet, some of us go as far as attempting to establish a moral doctorate [EDIT:] doctrine by which we all must abide by. Do you not see how hypocritical it is for a law breaker to attempt and set laws and expect people to follow them? The same people that raise a finger to "the system" because they have a fundamental understanding that not all rules should be followed are distraught when someone breaks their own rules; nay, they go as far as referring to it (with great audacity, if I may add so myself) as immoral.

All of us act by the unspoken acceptance of the fact that we all are allowed to make choices based on our personal and exclusive moral codes instilled within out personalities. You don't see two pirates pointing fingers at one another and blaming the other for torrenting the latest movie. It's basic logic and understanding. Yet it is lost when someone demeans or crosses the "moral" borders that we as pirates decided not to cross. We lose that understanding and go on a ridiculous witch hunt to ban traders/cheaters, when really, all they're doing is cheating the cheaters by the same code the cheaters cheat the system.

My argument is, as long as one reserves the liberty to set his own moral code, he has no right to impose said code on another individual. Do I think traders are wrong? I do. Do I think cheaters are wrong? Yes. Will I tell them so? Heck to the no. I let them make their own choices, just as they let me make mine.


This is an appropriate reply to the argument that one "finds no honor among thieves".

Of course one can find a certain ethos among certain criminals. There are certain dictates that even the most hardened of confederated criminals do not violate. Call it the 'moral code' of the confederated criminal.

It's still the old adage about oxen and goring :blink:

Thank you for understanding and not resorting to low forms of wit to argue. :yes: (for once, I'm not being sarcastic when giving a compliment)

caoh
07-18-2010, 05:40 PM
You know, mockery only works when you have an understanding of the subject.

Oh, aye. I can only understand what you express, no?


You are a pirate. You are on this board specifically because you don't abide by the morality rules set in place by society; and go as far as downloading material illegally to ignore those rules. Who do you think you are determining what other people's moral impediments should be?

Like this, for example.


We lose that understanding and go on a ridiculous witch hunt to ban traders/cheaters, when really, all they're doing is cheating the cheaters by the same code the cheaters cheat the system.

Yes, quite ridiculous. If I am running an illegal fruit picking and distribution scheme, why expend any effort to find the day laborers who are pissing on the fruit? After all, I'm a criminal.

OlegL
07-19-2010, 11:47 AM
You know, mockery only works when you have an understanding of the subject. I didn't say cheating was right. I didn't say it was wrong, either. And you're welcome to point me out to where I hinted at the slightest of what it should be or whether it should be allowed. I didn't point out the moral implications of an immoral individual talking about ethics. I don't give a rats ass about any of those subjects.

What I do have a problem with are hypocrites. This must be the thousandth time I'm explaining it but here it goes. We are pirates, we discard the rules society imposes on us. And yet, some of us go as far as attempting to establish a moral doctorate [EDIT:] doctrine by which we all must abide by. Do you not see how hypocritical it is for a law breaker to attempt and set laws and expect people to follow them? The same people that raise a finger to "the system" because they have a fundamental understanding that not all rules should be followed are distraught when someone breaks their own rules; nay, they go as far as referring to it (with great audacity, if I may add so myself) as immoral.

All of us act by the unspoken acceptance of the fact that we all are allowed to make choices based on our personal and exclusive moral codes instilled within out personalities. You don't see two pirates pointing fingers at one another and blaming the other for torrenting the latest movie. It's basic logic and understanding. Yet it is lost when someone demeans or crosses the "moral" borders that we as pirates decided not to cross. We lose that understanding and go on a ridiculous witch hunt to ban traders/cheaters, when really, all they're doing is cheating the cheaters by the same code the cheaters cheat the system.

My argument is, as long as one reserves the liberty to set his own moral code, he has no right to impose said code on another individual. Do I think traders are wrong? I do. Do I think cheaters are wrong? Yes. Will I tell them so? Heck to the no. I let them make their own choices, just as they let me make mine.


This is an appropriate reply to the argument that one "finds no honor among thieves".

Of course one can find a certain ethos among certain criminals. There are certain dictates that even the most hardened of confederated criminals do not violate. Call it the 'moral code' of the confederated criminal.

It's still the old adage about oxen and goring :blink:

Thank you for understanding and not resorting to low forms of wit to argue. :yes: (for once, I'm not being sarcastic when giving a compliment)

Your argument is flawed because private trackers are not illegal. They were created to service people with their specific needs. Downloading something from a tracker is the same thing as borrowing something from someone. However, cheaters don't simply download stuff; they steal stuff, and it's as bad as stealing something from a store or a friend in real life.
As you know, the Oink founder is now free because he was found innocent of any crime. It just proves to us that private trackers are legal.

A
07-19-2010, 01:54 PM
Your argument is flawed because private trackers are not illegal. They were created to service people with their specific needs. Downloading something from a tracker is the same thing as borrowing something from someone.
That is your concept of private trackers.Why do you think people are punished for pirating?


However, cheaters don't simply download stuff; they steal stuff, and it's as bad as stealing something from a store or a friend in real life.
How do you explain the seedbox users making a buffer and then hit and run on every other torrent after they have enough "Positive ratio"?And why arent those people banned?


As you know, the Oink founder is now free because he was found innocent of any crime. It just proves to us that private trackers are legal.
And yet many others are punished.Exceptions exists,that dosent mean those exceptions is the reality.If you want to understand why the founder of OiNK was not punished then read the old articles in torrentfreak.

Quarterquack
07-19-2010, 04:28 PM
Oleg, if you really think of private trackers in that way, then as a Japanese friend of mine would say, "You have a ways to go" before you understand what I'm arguing about.

Aby, I like your new signature. :happy:

QPD
07-19-2010, 05:54 PM
OMG...My thread is still alive.!!!!

pilda
07-19-2010, 07:46 PM
OMG...My thread is still alive.!!!!

is alive bcoz we are here ! ROMANIAN PEOPLE !

i will love to be unbanned from scc , gft and others ....

QPD
07-19-2010, 08:27 PM
We will remain banned and we deserve it !!!
But as RevTT does, certain people who proved themselves to be worthy should be allowed in.

caoh
07-19-2010, 08:32 PM
is alive bcoz we are here ! ROMANIAN PEOPLE !

i will love to be unbanned from scc , gft and others ....

Sure, so you can get banned for trading instead. :frusty:

ca_aok
07-19-2010, 08:34 PM
OMG...My thread is still alive.!!!!

is alive bcoz we are here ! ROMANIAN PEOPLE !

i will love to be unbanned from scc , gft and others ....
Do you enjoy knowing that it's partly because of you scumbags that you got your entire country banned from various sites?

Slickerey
07-19-2010, 08:41 PM
Romanians are practically guilty by alliance.

The good ones have to suffer because of the dirty deeds of the greedy bad ones...

Quarterquack
07-19-2010, 11:03 PM
Romanians are practically guilty by alliance.

The good ones have to suffer because of the dirty deeds of the greedy bad ones...

Logically that argument should extend to people of all nationalities/different ethnicity.

becomehokage
07-20-2010, 09:09 AM
hmm

I'd say to ban!

Asterix
07-20-2010, 10:49 AM
i think they never unban those countryes

A
07-20-2010, 11:40 AM
Aby, I like your new signature. :happy:
me too :D,tired of all the moral BS.

OlegL
07-20-2010, 02:47 PM
lol.

anon
07-20-2010, 04:57 PM
i think they never unban those countryes

And I think you've been making a lot of what Cabalo would categorize as "SHIT posts" today.

Mihai
07-20-2010, 05:41 PM
I myself am disappointed but glad at the same time that we are banned on SCC and GFT.Why?That's simple.Because people here, in Romania, don't know how to appreciate a tracker and tend to put the trading level first and then the content.For example, if a guy says he has TV and TL he still says he needs SCC.Why?He would probably say because he wants the best speeds.But that's bullshit.He just wants it to brag with his new 0-day ubercool tracker that he will use only for 1-2 weeks and then will just keep it to show off.So us being banned on these trackers makes us see the truth, that there are plenty more very good trackers out there that we can use.
Of course that's not the case for every romanian here.No, it's just the majority do this.I know since I was one of them...

ca_aok
07-20-2010, 06:24 PM
I'm sure they also thank you for cheating and getting them banned from these sites in the first place. You're a great example to your countrymen.

Mihai
07-20-2010, 07:20 PM
I'm sure they also thank you for cheating and getting them banned from these sites in the first place. You're a great example to your countrymen.

Yeah.I got the whole country banned on SCC you know:lol:
Serios now, Romania was banned because of too many noobs who cheat too much and just want those accounts to trade them or sell them.And I'm sure none of my 4 accounts I had there were banned until this day...

anon
07-20-2010, 09:22 PM
I'm sure they also thank you for cheating and getting them banned from these sites in the first place.

While this obviously isn't Mihai's case, some aren't that knowledgeable with torrents and think cheating is the way to increase your ratio, so they don't even see it as such. This view is further fueled by the fact most Romanian trackers don't even care about faking upload and have no scripts against it, the administration of one of them openly admitting this. Then they join international sites where the staff does care, try to cheat as in .ro trackers, get banned, and probably don't even know why.

It sounds stupid to informed users like you and me, but how do you convince someone that doesn't know any better?

QPD
07-20-2010, 09:54 PM
I'm sure they also thank you for cheating and getting them banned from these sites in the first place. You're a great example to your countrymen.

Yeah.I got the whole country banned on SCC you know:lol:
Serios now, Romania was banned because of too many noobs who cheat too much and just want those accounts to trade them or sell them.And I'm sure none of my 4 accounts I had there were banned until this day...

You have no idea why we ended up banned at SCC...it involves Paypal and hacking accounts...three times over!!! Oh,and a formidable stupid racist female !
Hei, good news ! I saw a pabstein note floating around here about you ! You are famous !

anon
07-20-2010, 09:55 PM
Hei, good news ! I saw a pabstein note floating around here about you ! You are famous !

He's not special. A few .ro guys have been banned for being me. :snooty:

QPD
07-20-2010, 09:56 PM
I'm sure they also thank you for cheating and getting them banned from these sites in the first place.

While this obviously isn't Mihai's case, some aren't that knowledgeable with torrents and think cheating is the way to increase your ratio, so they don't even see it as such. This view is further fueled by the fact most Romanian trackers don't even care about faking upload and have no scripts against it, the administration of one of them openly admitting this. Then they join international sites where the staff does care, try to cheat as in .ro trackers, get banned, and probably don't even know why.

It sounds stupid to informed users like you and me, but how do you convince someone that doesn't know any better?

I am not sure this info is updated Anon ! **-Inn should dig a little harder, maybe creating a poll on that !

anon
07-20-2010, 10:00 PM
I am not sure this info is updated Anon !

I'm just saying it does happen, and not only with .ro guys.

OlegL
07-20-2010, 11:00 PM
I don't know if Israel and Romania should or should not stay banned at private trackers. I never staffed a tracker, so I don't know if whole countries should be banned. I just know that if I lived in either of those countries and was banned, I would be upset.

Quarterquack
07-21-2010, 02:25 AM
It sounds stupid to informed users like you and me, but how do you convince someone that doesn't know any better?

Perhaps this is cross-thread sniping, but thank god for this. Some people really don't know that what they're doing is wrong, sometimes. I believe you fully.

OlegL
07-21-2010, 04:22 PM
Mihai, are you a smart cheater? I mean, were you ever banned from the trackers you cheated on?