We could do with this here

[devilsadvocate]

I've posted about Americans traveling for healthcare before.

http://online.wsj.com/article/SB125875892887958111.html?mod=WSJ_hps_MIDDLEThirdNews


The cost of heart surgery is less than we would pay for a visit to the emergency room for a broken arm.

[clocker]

Are you implying that the US doesn't have the best health care in the world?

[j2k4]

I'm all for this.

It is gratifying to see you agreeing with me, finally, and just think - no mention whatsoever of "public funding".

You people are learning fast.

[clocker]

I'm all for this.

It is gratifying to see you agreeing with me, finally, and just think - no mention whatsoever of "public funding".
At least not till you brought it up.


You people are learning fast.
Oh quit being so patronizing.
Where are all the doctors going to come from?
How do you feel about importing thousands of foreign doctors/nurses/technicians to feed the maw of this "mass-production" medical machine?

Dr. Shetty's plans call for reducing the cost of equipment by skipping the "middleman" and dealing with suppliers directly...oh, really?...sounds like "socialism" to me. Where's the incentive for the industry to completely change it's business model and what happens to all the newly unemployed "middlemen"?

Who applies the leverage necessary to convince Big Pharma to lower the price of the ocean of drugs that will be required? Do we count on corporate conscience?

What about the secondary infrastructure to support such a growth spurt?
The local hospital where my Mom volunteers has equipment (MRIs and the like) who's use must be rationed to keep electricity costs down- a hospital sucks up A LOT of municipal services.
Who pays to upgrade these-and other- vital support services?
You want a medical waste disposal facility in your neighborhood?
Hmm, funny...no one around here does either.

Finally (but only a temporary halt...I could go on), do you think it's just serendipity that facilities like Shetty's are being built in spots like the Caymans and Thailand?
Part of the attraction is the resort type atmosphere that caters to the family/caregivers who accompany the patients.
So, let's build some comparable facilities here...let's see, where should we build?
California? Florida? Arizona?
Or Detroit?
What happens to all the folks who can't afford a combined vacation/medical procedure?
After all, none of this addresses the fact that this is ALL supposedly paid for by insurance companies and what benevolent insurer is going to ferry your freezing ass down to Phoenix for a new heart valve and recuperative stay?

Hmm?

[j2k4]

At least not till you brought it up.

Talk to your buddy; try to find out what his point was in starting this thread?


You people are learning fast.


Oh quit being so patronizing.
Where are all the doctors going to come from?
How do you feel about importing thousands of foreign doctors/nurses/technicians to feed the maw of this "mass-production" medical machine?

Where did Shetty get his doctors?

And why are you all of a sudden concerned about productive immigrants?


Dr. Shetty's plans call for reducing the cost of equipment by skipping the "middleman" and dealing with suppliers directly...oh, really?...sounds like "socialism" to me. Where's the incentive for the industry to completely change it's business model and what happens to all the newly unemployed "middlemen"?

The incentive could be to compete in the health care market by price, which has naught whatsoever to do with socialism, and what, oh what, gives you entree to say it "sounds like socialism to me"?

Sounds like you don't really like the idea of less expensive health care.

As to the newly unemployed middlemen, let them apply for the newly available jobs provided by the heart care mill.


Who applies the leverage necessary to convince Big Pharma to lower the price of the ocean of drugs that will be required? Do we count on corporate conscience?

To what "ocean of drugs" do you refer?

Corporate conscience is blind in the face of profit, which would be based on volume; that's how it's supposed to work.


What about the secondary infrastructure to support such a growth spurt?

Sounds like a nice dose of "shovel-ready" projects (there's that jobs thing again) to me.


The local hospital where my Mom volunteers has equipment (MRIs and the like) who's use must be rationed to keep electricity costs down- a hospital sucks up A LOT of municipal services.

Rationed?

Sounds like socialism, to me.

How's about build a fucking power plant?

Ooops - more new jobs.


Who pays to upgrade these-and other- vital support services?

How about the doctors who provide the services?


You want a medical waste disposal facility in your neighborhood?
Hmm, funny...no one around here does either.

So we're in stasis?

We can't build a medical waste facility anywhere?

Does the world exist solely of your backyard?

Besides which, who says you should have a say about what happens in your backyard?

Did you forget - you're the guy who doesn't think the Alaskans should control what happens in their backyard.


Finally (but only a temporary halt...I could go on), do you think it's just serendipity that facilities like Shetty's are being built in spots like the Caymans and Thailand?
Part of the attraction is the resort type atmosphere that caters to the family/caregivers who accompany the patients.
So, let's build some comparable facilities here...let's see, where should we build?
California? Florida? Arizona?
Or Detroit?

Seriously, what do you care, and why not Detroit?

Are you such a regular participant at existing resort facilities you would begrudge others enjoying them as well?


What happens to all the folks who can't afford a combined vacation/medical procedure?

So, they've lowered the cost of an operation normally approaching six figures to the low three-figure range, and all you can say is 'who's gonna pay'?


After all, none of this addresses the fact that this is ALL supposedly paid for by insurance companies and what benevolent insurer is going to ferry your freezing ass down to Phoenix for a new heart valve and recuperative stay?

Oh please.

You know, I was going to just say I was kidding in my last post, but while you were busy trying to keel-haul me, you "went on" just a bit overmuch.



Hmm?

Hmm, indeed.

[clocker]

Where did Shetty get his doctors?

And why are you all of a sudden concerned about productive immigrants?
Shetty got his doctors from state supported schools (in India) which, in case you haven't been paying attention, are currently going down the tubes here in the US. Schools require taxes, an anathema to the conservative right.
I'm not concerned about immigrants but it sure has been a flashpoint issue for the right- "They're takin our jawbs!"



Who applies the leverage necessary to convince Big Pharma to lower the price of the ocean of drugs that will be required? Do we count on corporate conscience?

To what "ocean of drugs" do you refer?

Corporate conscience is blind in the face of profit, which would be based on volume; that's how it's supposed to work.
"Supposed to work" and how it does work are two different things.
Having successfully lobbied to increase patent protection and discourage collective bargaining (sure as shit don't want the guvvmint involved!), there is absolutely NO incentive whatsoever for a drug company to lower prices.
When a company is the sole producer of- and has an ironclad monopoly on- a drug, increased volume simply means increased profits...why lower prices if there isn't an alternative available and you're the sole source?



What about the secondary infrastructure to support such a growth spurt?

Sounds like a nice dose of "shovel-ready" projects (there's that jobs thing again) to me.
Oh really?
Infrastructure is state/federal supported...again, this means taxes.
You want lower taxes and more infrastructure.
How does this delusional economy of yours work?



The local hospital where my Mom volunteers has equipment (MRIs and the like) who's use must be rationed to keep electricity costs down- a hospital sucks up A LOT of municipal services.

Rationed?

Sounds like socialism, to me.

How's about build a fucking power plant?

Ooops - more new jobs.
Who's gonna pay for this new power plant?



You want a medical waste disposal facility in your neighborhood?
Hmm, funny...no one around here does either.

So we're in stasis?

We can't build a medical waste facility anywhere?

Does the world exist solely of your backyard?

Besides which, who says you should have a say about what happens in your backyard?

Did you forget - you're the guy who doesn't think the Alaskans should control what happens in their backyard.
You mean the federally subsidized Alaskan backyard?
You think they should be able to trash a federal wildlife preserve so Sarah can cash a few more Exxon checks and buy snowmachines?





What happens to all the folks who can't afford a combined vacation/medical procedure?

So, they've lowered the cost of an operation normally approaching six figures to the low three-figure range, and all you can say is 'who's gonna pay'?
Uh huh.
Not having health insurance myself, they could lower the cost to the low hundreds and it would still exceed my ability to pay.

[Snee]

If we had socialism, I could have a snow machine too.

[j2k4]

Not having health insurance myself, they could lower the cost to the low hundreds and it would still exceed my ability to pay.

Okay, so society is required by government to do for you.

A couple of things-

1. Is this constitutional?

Why does/doesn't it matter?

Why should/shouldn't it matter?

2. Why should this be forced on everyone else?

3. Would it be accurate to say that you believe the government should address everything the Constitution does not?