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Infested Cats
10-23-2003, 07:03 AM
Just for the sake of posting some news: It has been confirmed that SEXUAL IDENTITY IS GENETIC!

SOURCE (http://www.cnn.com/2003/HEALTH/10/20/sexuality.brain.reut/index.html)


Study: Sexual identity hard-wired by genetics

LOS ANGELES, California (Reuters) -- Sexual identity is wired into the genes, which discounts the concept that homosexuality and transgender sexuality are a choice, California researchers reported on Monday.

"Our findings may help answer an important question -- why do we feel male or female?" Dr. Eric Vilain, a genetics professor at the University of California, Los Angeles School of Medicine, said in a statement. "Sexual identity is rooted in every person's biology before birth and springs from a variation in our individual genome."

His team has identified 54 genes in mice that may explain why male and female brains look and function differently.

Since the 1970s, scientists have believed that estrogen and testosterone were wholly responsible for sexually organizing the brain. Recent evidence, however, indicates that hormones cannot explain everything about the sexual differences between male and female brains.

Published in the latest edition of the journal Molecular Brain Research, the UCLA discovery may also offer physicians an improved tool for gender assignment of babies born with ambiguous genitalia.

Mild cases of malformed genitalia occur in 1 percent of all births -- about 3 million cases. More severe cases -- where doctors can't inform parents whether they had a boy or girl -- occur in one in 3,000 births.

"If physicians could predict the gender of newborns with ambiguous genitalia at birth, we would make less mistakes in gender assignment," Vilain said.

Using two genetic testing methods, the researchers compared the production of genes in male and female brains in embryonic mice -- long before the animals developed sex organs.

They found 54 genes produced in different amounts in male and female mouse brains, prior to hormonal influence. Eighteen of the genes were produced at higher levels in the male brains; 36 were produced at higher levels in the female brains.

"We discovered that the male and female brains differed in many measurable ways, including anatomy and function." Vilain said.

For example, the two hemispheres of the brain appeared more symmetrical in females than in males. According to Vilain, the symmetry may improve communication between both sides of the brain, leading to enhanced verbal expressiveness in females.

"This anatomical difference may explain why women can sometimes articulate their feelings more easily than men," he said.

The scientists plan to conduct further studies to determine the specific role for each of the 54 genes they identified.

"Our findings may explain why we feel male or female, regardless of our actual anatomy," said Vilain. "These discoveries lend credence to the idea that being transgender --- feeling that one has been born into the body of the wrong sex -- is a state of mind."

blackhatknight
10-23-2003, 09:14 AM
Nature or nurture?

I honestly believe, contrary to your article, that instinct only provides us with the desire to procreate, and rest is nature. If we take a text book definition of prevision and fetishes homosexuality, leather, oral, and countless other practices would fall under this, though there is a definite need from some bodies to prove that some sexual practices, especially homosexuality are genetically gained, I can’t see how, if we did prove this it would change anything, maybe some of you have ideas on this???

ilw
10-23-2003, 09:47 AM
I'm not sure the article IC posted is really about homosexuality per se, though of course, homosexuality is a very likely outcome in people who feel they are in a body of the wrong sex. I suppose in some way its a subset of homosexuality.

I personally don't know how it would change anything if we did know the causes of homosexuality, I suppose that will become clearer as we learn more. However, understanding the phenomenon is definitely preferable to blind ignorance. If the causes are understood it will no doubt open up the question of whether homosexuality is valid or not, but I suspect that will be probably end up being down to the parents and may depend on our genetic manipulation abilities.
As far as understanding transgender issues, this has obvious advantages because being born in a body of the wrong sex (or feeling that way) seems bound to cause psychological stress/problems. With further understanding these problems could be avoided or alleviated.

Billy_Dean
10-23-2003, 10:29 AM
What if they found a "cure" for homosexuality, and it became a treatable illness?

What then for "gay rights"?

What would the argument be for special treatment?

Would they just say "take the pills and be like the rest of us"?

What if people refused to be treated?

What if Manchester United lose and Stuttgart win?

Is this post going anywhere?

Wha.......


:)

ilw
10-23-2003, 10:49 AM
What would the argument be for special treatment?
By special treatment do you mean special laws to ensure they get equal rights?

I don't think theres really much of an discussion to be had about the 'rightness' of homosexuality until we actually understand a lot more about it, theres too many possibilities.

Billy_Dean
10-23-2003, 10:53 AM
Isn't making laws especially to suit sexual orientation "special treatment"?

And what if it became treatable, by taking a few pills, wouldn't you take them?


:)

ilw
10-23-2003, 11:04 AM
Well its not really special treatment since there are lots of laws that are designed to only be relevant for a section of society. you could probably argue that the old, the sick, the young, the poor, the rich, the mentally ill, the disabled, people of different races etc all get 'special' treatment, but by that point its not really all that 'special' is it, its just normal laws protecting people who are not sufficiently close to the mean (or mode) of the population.


And what if it became treatable, by taking a few pills, wouldn't you take them?
I wasn't aware i needed to :lol: Or do you know something i don't :unsure:

Billy_Dean
10-23-2003, 11:10 AM
No offence ilw, what you choose to tell people is your business, I'm just discussing gay laws in general, not you in particular.


;)

ilw
10-23-2003, 11:17 AM
takes one to know one :rolleyes: :blink:

Billy_Dean
10-23-2003, 11:26 AM
I'll have to take your word for that, I'm afraid. :)



:)

ilw
10-23-2003, 11:29 AM
Billy, what you choose to tell people is your business.

Billy_Dean
10-23-2003, 11:35 AM
Originally posted by ilw@23 October 2003 - 20:29
Billy, what you choose to tell people is your business.
I wouldn't do that mate, it'll be our little secret till you're ready.


:)

ilw
10-23-2003, 11:41 AM
I don't know if i can hide it Billy, our love burns so bright that others are bound to notice :ph34r:

MagicNakor
10-23-2003, 12:36 PM
Like, omigod, what's J2 going to say!?! I bet he'll freak out!

:ninja:

AussieSheila
10-23-2003, 12:51 PM
:o OMG! I'm freaking out! That's 2 in 2 days I've lost to the other side!

:lol: :lol: :lol:

bigboab
10-23-2003, 01:32 PM
Originally posted by Infested Cats@23 October 2003 - 07:03
Just for the sake of posting some news: It has been confirmed that SEXUAL IDENTITY IS GENETIC!

SOURCE (http://www.cnn.com/2003/HEALTH/10/20/sexuality.brain.reut/index.html)


Study: Sexual identity hard-wired by genetics


For example, the two hemispheres of the brain appeared more symmetrical in females than in males. According to Vilain, the symmetry may improve communication between both sides of the brain, leading to enhanced verbal expressiveness in females.


What more proof is required than this paragrah? :lol: :lol: :lol:

billyfridge
10-23-2003, 06:25 PM
Originally posted by Billy_Dean@23 October 2003 - 10:29
What if they found a "cure" for homosexuality, and it became a treatable illness?

What then for "gay rights"?

What would the argument be for special treatment?

Would they just say "take the pills and be like the rest of us"?

What if people refused to be treated?

What if Manchester United lose and Stuttgart win?

Is this post going anywhere?

Wha.......


:)
Don't say things like that Billy, i know ones sexual genre is important, and if your
sex was preordained, and stuff, but to say MU will lose to Stuttgarte, that's blasphemy, go to bed without any tea. :angry: :P :lol:

j2k4
10-23-2003, 09:02 PM
Originally posted by MagicNakor@23 October 2003 - 07:36
Like, omigod, what's J2 going to say!?!  I bet he'll freak out!

:ninja:
:huh:

Why?

Has "burning love" been outlawed?

Seriously-

1. It's a fact of life, and I made my peace with it long, long (did I say long?) ago.

2. Who is or is not so inclined on this board is of precisely -0- interest to me; it is a "So What?" proposition.

The only problem I have is with those who LEAD with their sexual orientation: If you somehow feel this legitimizes you, or that you even need legitimization, for whatever reason, this approach, in my opinion, accomplishes precisely the opposite.

How can you people misread me so completely? <_<

MagicNakor
10-23-2003, 10:34 PM
*sigh* This is why I keep the winkies in.

ilw&#39;s stealing Billy_Dean from you. This is why you&#39;ll freak out. The teenage-girl high-school flavour seemed fitting, given the couple posts before I said that. ;)

:ninja:

j2k4
10-24-2003, 06:01 AM
Originally posted by MagicNakor@23 October 2003 - 17:34
*sigh* This is why I keep the winkies in.

ilw&#39;s stealing Billy_Dean from you. This is why you&#39;ll freak out. The teenage-girl high-school flavour seemed fitting, given the couple posts before I said that. ;)

:ninja:
Ah, yes.

Billy is a whore, and will go &#39;round with anybody. :P

I find ilw a trustworthy sort who will not abuse our Billy too badly.


MN-sorry for seeming touchy-I&#39;m really not, but my token status requires an occasional whine.

Just keeping it sharp, ya&#39; know? :D

Busyman
10-24-2003, 06:37 AM
Anyway back on subject...

Sexual identity is choice. It&#39;s like choosing Jif or Peter Pan peanut butter.
The actual behavior that alot of times accompanies this identity is learned.
Example:

There are gay males that try to act and sound like women. They like males and try to imitate a female.

In every one&#39;s life there has been an instance where some form of homosexuality has either in a small or big way crossed your path. You either rolled with it or you didn&#39;t. Plus what about bisexuals?