I just simply have to ask.. The latest fiasco in the Med. Sea (Turks & IDF soldiers)

[tralalala]

Well, I was gob-smacked when I saw the footage of what the so-called "humanitarian-aid" civilians had ready and waiting for the Naval-Commando on the ship that was on it's way to Gaza.. What more, the fact that Israel actually agreed that the ship could come to Ashdod port, and the stuff they brought be transferred from there to Gaza..
Shocking:
gYjkLUcbJWo

[start-patriotism]
What say you? In all honesty, it's cases like the above that make me damn-right proud to be wearing IDF fatigues at this very moment.[/end-patriotism]

[Barbarossa]

Yeah, that went well. :ermm:

[bigboab]

Well, I was gob-smacked when I saw the footage of what the so-called "humanitarian-aid" civilians had ready and waiting for the Naval-Commando on the ship that was on it's way to Gaza.. What more, the fact that Israel actually agreed that the ship could come to Ashdod port, and the stuff they brought be transferred from there to Gaza..
Shocking:
gYjkLUcbJWo

[start-patriotism]
What say you? In all honesty, it's cases like the above that make me damn-right proud to be wearing IDF fatigues at this very moment.[/end-patriotism]

What would you do Rafi if someone attacked your ship on high seas? Would you stand back and say go ahead everything you are doing is perfectly legal. When the British navy stopped the Exodus containing Jewish refugees bound for Palestine in 1947 was that OK in your eyes too?

[S3v3N]

Yeah the IDF released only the images showing their soldiers being hit with sticks and chairs, show us the images of IDF elites killing humanitarians now please .

Oh wait they didn't release that .

[torrentt]

tralalala, leave it, anti-israelins won't be convinced no matter what.
Israel is guilty as a premise, anytime anywhere, arabs are the victims, even when they lynch and murder.

[999969999]

I'm an isolationist, so I think the United States should stay out of the middle east entirely and not get involved with any country over there, but I have to say that I was personally shocked at the level of outright hatred other countries around the world have for Israel just because it is trying to defend itself from the possibility of more rockets being smuggled into Gaza and then fired at Israelis.

It reminds me of how the state of Arizona has been called racist and evil and has been boycotted by other states, counties, and cities merely because it wants to protect itself from all the crime sweeping across its border from Mexico.

It seems like if you want to defend yourself, you are somehow evil for doing so.

[devilsadvocate]

tralalala, leave it, anti-israelins won't be convinced no matter what.
Israel is guilty as a premise, anytime anywhere, arabs are the victims, even when they lynch and murder.
Out of curiosity, do you think Israel has done no wrong?

Define "anti Israel"

Israel has a right to exist and to defend itself, this doesn't mean that it should be taken for granted that they are always or even mostly acting justly or in self defense. The same applies to the Palestinians or anyone else for that matter

It seems that criticism or questioning of any Israeli policy or action makes one an anti Semite or or pro Arab.

[devilsadvocate]

It reminds me of how the state of Arizona has been called racist and evil and has been boycotted by other states, counties, and cities merely because it wants to protect itself from all the crime sweeping across its border from Mexico.

So you are happy to have to carry proof of citizenship or be detained until you can prove you are a citizen?

Nobody is complaining about trying to stop illegal immigration, they are complaining because the law sets up natural born and legal immigrants for harassment that, lets be honest, no white yahoo will have to endure.

[torrentt]

tralalala, leave it, anti-israelins won't be convinced no matter what.
Israel is guilty as a premise, anytime anywhere, arabs are the victims, even when they lynch and murder.
Out of curiosity, do you think Israel has done no wrong?

Define "anti Israel"

Israel has a right to exist and to defend itself, this doesn't mean that it should be taken for granted that they are always or even mostly acting justly or in self defense. The same applies to the Palestinians or anyone else for that matter

It seems that criticism or questioning of any Israeli policy or action makes one an anti Semite or or pro Arab.

of course Israel had done something wrong.
do you know any other army in the world that will try to stop a ship armed with paint-ball guns? and after its soldiers were beaten and lynched by terrorists the soldiers would still not use fire?
the soldiers started using their guns only after 2 of them got shot.
North Korea torpedoed a ship a few weeks ago, killing 46 people, but i don't see even a grain of rage

[devilsadvocate]

of course Israel had done something wrong.
do you know any other army in the world that will try to stop a ship armed with paint-ball guns? and after its soldiers were beaten and lynched by terrorists the soldiers would still not use fire?
the soldiers started using their guns only after 2 of them got shot.
North Korea torpedoed a ship a few weeks ago, killing 46 people, but i don't see even a grain of rage
The "no wrong" is a general question, not specific to this particular incident. It goes with your reasoning that people are anti Israeli, does the standard apply to pro Israeli?
The ship was in international water as far as I can tell. Does the crew have the right to repel an armed boarding party, any boarding party, in self defense?

What terrorists are you referring to? Are you saying that those on board the ship were terrorists?

Where did these guns used to shoot at the soldier come from?

Still waiting for you to define "anti Israel", seeing as you have accused previous posters of being such.


I can't say one way or the other who holds responsibility for the incident. I wasn't there and don't have all the facts. I doubt it's as cut and dry as either side are making out.

[torrentt]

of course Israel had done something wrong.
do you know any other army in the world that will try to stop a ship armed with paint-ball guns? and after its soldiers were beaten and lynched by terrorists the soldiers would still not use fire?
the soldiers started using their guns only after 2 of them got shot.
North Korea torpedoed a ship a few weeks ago, killing 46 people, but i don't see even a grain of rage
The "no wrong" is a general question, not specific to this particular incident. It goes with your reasoning that people are anti Israeli, does the standard apply to pro Israeli?
The ship was in international water as far as I can tell. Does the crew have the right to repel an armed boarding party, any boarding party, in self defense?

What terrorists are you referring to? Are you saying that those on board the ship were terrorists?

Where did these guns used to shoot at the soldier come from?

Still waiting for you to define "anti Israel", seeing as you have accused previous posters of being such.


I can't say one way or the other who holds responsibility for the incident. I wasn't there and don't have all the facts. I doubt it's as cut and dry as either side are making out.


http://www.icrc.org/ihl.nsf/385ec082...25641f002d49ce

67. Merchant vessels flying the flag of neutral States may not be attacked unless they:

(a) are believed on reasonable grounds to be carrying contraband or breaching a blockade, and after prior warning they intentionally and clearly refuse to stop, or intentionally and clearly resist visit, search or capture.



http://www.lawofwar.org/naval_warfar...ion_N-114M.htm

7.7.4 Breach and Attempted Breach of Blockade. Breach of blockade is the passage of a vessel or aircraft through a blockade without special entry or exit authorization from the blockading belligerent. Attempted breach of blockade occurs from the time a vessel or aircraft leaves a port or airfield with the intention of evading the blockade, and for vessels exiting the blockaded area, continues until the voyage is completed. Knowledge of the existence of the blockade is essential to the offenses of breach of blockade and attempted breach of blockade. Knowledge may be presumed once a blockade has been declared and appropriate notification provided to affected governments. It is immaterial that the vessel or aircraft is at the time of interception bound for neutral territory, if its ultimate destination is the blockaded area. There is a presumption of attempted breach of blockade where vessels or aircraft are bound for a neutral port or airfield serving as a point of transit to the blockaded area. Capture of such vessels is discussed in paragraph 7.10.

about the anti-israel, its someone who will always be against israel.

and about the terrorists on the ship, if you really want to know, watch the glenn beck show from yesterday.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wrIVg2r2VuI

[bigboab]

and about the terrorists on the ship, if you really want to know, watch the glenn beck show from yesterday.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wrIVg2r2VuI

Does anybody in America take this guy seriously?

Quote from the above: ' In 1917 most of Europe wanted to go to war. In fact most of Europe was preparing for war'.

Actually in 1917 most of Europe had been at war for 3 years. The first World War started in 1914 and ended in 1918.

I often wondered why some Americans scoffed at 'Fox' alleging that they distorted the truth. Know I know.

P.S. If you want to know a bit of history of this region and who was 'actually promised' the land now known as Israel then read 'The Seven Pillars Of Wisdom'.* It will give you a bit of insight into the duplicity in the forming of the state of Israel.


* That is if you have a spare couple of months.:lol:

[devilsadvocate]

http://www.icrc.org/ihl.nsf/385ec082...25641f002d49ce

67. Merchant vessels flying the flag of neutral States may not be attacked unless they:

(a) are believed on reasonable grounds to be carrying contraband or breaching a blockade, and after prior warning they intentionally and clearly refuse to stop, or intentionally and clearly resist visit, search or capture.



http://www.lawofwar.org/naval_warfar...ion_N-114M.htm

7.7.4 Breach and Attempted Breach of Blockade. Breach of blockade is the passage of a vessel or aircraft through a blockade without special entry or exit authorization from the blockading belligerent. Attempted breach of blockade occurs from the time a vessel or aircraft leaves a port or airfield with the intention of evading the blockade, and for vessels exiting the blockaded area, continues until the voyage is completed. Knowledge of the existence of the blockade is essential to the offenses of breach of blockade and attempted breach of blockade. Knowledge may be presumed once a blockade has been declared and appropriate notification provided to affected governments. It is immaterial that the vessel or aircraft is at the time of interception bound for neutral territory, if its ultimate destination is the blockaded area. There is a presumption of attempted breach of blockade where vessels or aircraft are bound for a neutral port or airfield serving as a point of transit to the blockaded area. Capture of such vessels is discussed in paragraph 7.10.

about the anti-israel, its someone who will always be against israel.

and about the terrorists on the ship, if you really want to know, watch the glenn beck show from yesterday.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wrIVg2r2VuI

Neither of your links work, but I'm asking you your opinion, if you think they have the right to defend themselves. Would Arab nations have the right to blockade or board Israel bound ships? You made a statement about who shot first, but didn't answer where the guns came from.

Thanks for the definition of "anti Israel", now please tell me why those you told tralalalala to ignore fit the profile. Do you consider me to be "anti Israel"? If so, why?

As for watching Beck as a source of any form of reality, I have a serious question-

ARE YOU ON DRUGS?

That's not meant to be an insult, seriously, are you?

[999969999]

It reminds me of how the state of Arizona has been called racist and evil and has been boycotted by other states, counties, and cities merely because it wants to protect itself from all the crime sweeping across its border from Mexico.

So you are happy to have to carry proof of citizenship or be detained until you can prove you are a citizen?

Nobody is complaining about trying to stop illegal immigration, they are complaining because the law sets up natural born and legal immigrants for harassment that, lets be honest, no white yahoo will have to endure.

Who doesn't carry a f*cking driver's license around with them in their wallet?!?! I have mine with me every time I go anywhere. It's not that hard.

And if they are here legally, they will have a driver's license or a state issued i.d. card, or if they are here on a green card they will have that with them. In fact the Arizona law is almost identical to the federal law requiring legal immigrants to carry documentation with them that provides proof they are here legally.

Oh and P.S.-- that is exactly what they are mad about, we are trying to stop illegal immigration. They don't want us to interfer with this mass migration until they swamp us and then it will be too late to do anything about it.

[999969999]

and about the terrorists on the ship, if you really want to know, watch the glenn beck show from yesterday.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wrIVg2r2VuI

Does anybody in America take this guy seriously?

Quote from the above: ' In 1917 most of Europe wanted to go to war. In fact most of Europe was preparing for war'.

Actually in 1917 most of Europe had been at war for 3 years. The first World War started in 1914 and ended in 1918.

I often wondered why some Americans scoffed at 'Fox' alleging that they distorted the truth. Know I know.

P.S. If you want to know a bit of history of this region and who was 'actually promised' the land now known as Israel then read 'The Seven Pillars Of Wisdom'.* It will give you a bit of insight into the duplicty in the forming of the state of Israel.


* That is if you have a spare couple of months.:lol:

Um, yes, we do like Glenn Beck and the Fox network. He is very popular in Arizona. And yes, he is a MORMON, and not Jewish, so he is not biased in favor of Israel for religious reasons.

The Fox network is the only one that comes anywhere close to being unbiased and fair.

[devilsadvocate]

Who doesn't carry a f*cking driver's license around with them in their wallet?!?! I have mine with me every time I go anywhere. It's not that hard.

And if they are here legally, they will have a driver's license or a state issued i.d. card, or if they are here on a green card they will have that with them. In fact the Arizona law is almost identical to the federal law requiring legal immigrants to carry documentation with them that provides proof they are here legally.

Oh and P.S.-- that is exactly what they are mad about, we are trying to stop illegal immigration. They don't want us to interfer with this mass migration until they swamp us and then it will be too late to do anything about it.
This is BEFORE the law comes into effect http://www.azfamily.com/news/local/Man-says-he-was-racially-targeted-forced-to-provide-birth-certificate-91769419.html

I only carry my license when I'm driving. If I take the dog for a walk or we go to the park and I'm not driving I leave my wallet at home.

You listen to way too much talk radio.

[devilsadvocate]

The Fox network is the only one that comes anywhere close to being unbiased and fair.


:eyebrows:

Oh come on, even the guy form the MRC admits fox has conservative bias (http://spectator.org/archives/2010/06/03/provincial-times)


We conservatives have our own newspapers, led nationally by the Wall Street Journal. Actually, against mainstream Liberal media we have our own conservative counterculture led by the Journal, Fox News, talk radio, our think tanks and magazines. We can hold our own against the Kultursmog the mainstream media culture besmogged as it is by Liberal prejudice and bugaboos.

[999969999]

Out of curiosity, do you think Israel has done no wrong?

Define "anti Israel"

Israel has a right to exist and to defend itself, this doesn't mean that it should be taken for granted that they are always or even mostly acting justly or in self defense. The same applies to the Palestinians or anyone else for that matter

It seems that criticism or questioning of any Israeli policy or action makes one an anti Semite or or pro Arab.

of course Israel had done something wrong.
do you know any other army in the world that will try to stop a ship armed with paint-ball guns? and after its soldiers were beaten and lynched by terrorists the soldiers would still not use fire?
the soldiers started using their guns only after 2 of them got shot.
North Korea torpedoed a ship a few weeks ago, killing 46 people, but i don't see even a grain of rage

This is a very good point.

The outrage against Israel always seems to be blown way out of proportion.

They seem to be held to very different standard than the rest of the world.

Much like Arizona, again.

Arizona's anti-illegal immigration law is called racist and evil, but Mexico's own immigration laws (Ley de poblacion) is much more strict with very harsh penalties for crossing their borders illegally, and they even have not just racial profiling, but a part of the law which states that if immigration from another country would upset their demographic balance, then it is not allowed. But no one calls them racist or evil. It's okay for them to try to defend themselves and protect the sovereignty of their borders, but it we do it in ARIZONA then we're evil and horrible people.

[999969999]

Who doesn't carry a f*cking driver's license around with them in their wallet?!?! I have mine with me every time I go anywhere. It's not that hard.

And if they are here legally, they will have a driver's license or a state issued i.d. card, or if they are here on a green card they will have that with them. In fact the Arizona law is almost identical to the federal law requiring legal immigrants to carry documentation with them that provides proof they are here legally.

Oh and P.S.-- that is exactly what they are mad about, we are trying to stop illegal immigration. They don't want us to interfer with this mass migration until they swamp us and then it will be too late to do anything about it.
This is BEFORE the law comes into effect http://www.azfamily.com/news/local/Man-says-he-was-racially-targeted-forced-to-provide-birth-certificate-91769419.html

I only carry my license when I'm driving. If I take the dog for a walk or we go to the park and I'm not driving I leave my wallet at home.

You listen to way too much talk radio.

Oh channel 3 (azfamily) is quite liberal, so I'm not surprised about them promoting such garbage.

If you want an Arizona driver's license you must provide a birth certificate. What's wrong with that?

Would it kill you to take your driver's license with you when you walked to the park? I don't think it would be that big of a deal. They're not that heavy or hard to carry, you know?

[devilsadvocate]

Oh channel 3 (azfamily) is quite liberal, so I'm not surprised about them promoting such garbage.

If you want an Arizona driver's license you must provide a birth certificate. What's wrong with that?

Would it kill you to take your driver's license with you when you walked to the park? I don't think it would be that big of a deal. They're not that heavy or hard to carry, you know?
And I thought you were for government out of our lives. Yet you seem to be fine with what amounts to compulsory id.

No it's not heavy and it's not hard to carry, I probably wouldn't even be asked for it because I'm white. The issue is that as an Americans we don't have to carry ID and our liberty shouldn't be at risk because we don't always have it on us.

I just linked to the first site I found with the story. Are you saying it didn't happen because it doesn't fit your world view? I mean the guy was born here, had a driving license and a social security number yet was still detained. Do you think that's okay?

[bigboab]

Does anybody in America take this guy seriously?

Quote from the above: ' In 1917 most of Europe wanted to go to war. In fact most of Europe was preparing for war'.

Actually in 1917 most of Europe had been at war for 3 years. The first World War started in 1914 and ended in 1918.

I often wondered why some Americans scoffed at 'Fox' alleging that they distorted the truth. Know I know.

P.S. If you want to know a bit of history of this region and who was 'actually promised' the land now known as Israel then read 'The Seven Pillars Of Wisdom'.* It will give you a bit of insight into the duplicty in the forming of the state of Israel.


* That is if you have a spare couple of months.:lol:

Um, yes, we do like Glenn Beck and the Fox network. He is very popular in Arizona. And yes, he is a MORMON, and not Jewish, so he is not biased in favor of Israel for religious reasons.

The Fox network is the only one that comes anywhere close to being unbiased and fair.

If that is the case then I am genuinely sorry for the state of journalism in the USA. That program is riddled from start to finish with inaccuracy. It smacks to me like Sky News in the UK. Not news but opinion. Does Rupert Murdoch have anything to do with Fox?

[Skiz]

The issue is that as an Americans we don't have to carry ID and our liberty shouldn't be at risk because we don't always have it on us.

That is incorrect. Being American has nothing to do with it. That is a state law and will differ from state to state. In the State of Texas you are required to show the officer your ID if the officer has a right to detain you, or any vehicle you're in. If you refuse, they can (and will) take you in for a fingerprint check and legally hold you until your identity has been determined. But, before an officer can require you to show ID he/she first must be able to lawfully detain you. All the officer needs is to be able to articulate reasonable suspicion.

In the case of the AZ man, I'd like to hear the other side of that story before fingering any blame. The reporter said he was taken in because he could not (or would not) answer some of the officers questions. The news story also stated he was born in the U.S., but he could barely speak English. :ermm:

[Skiz]

Um, yes, we do like Glenn Beck and the Fox network. He is very popular in Arizona. And yes, he is a MORMON, and not Jewish, so he is not biased in favor of Israel for religious reasons.

The Fox network is the only one that comes anywhere close to being unbiased and fair.

If that is the case then I am genuinely sorry for the state of journalism in the USA. That program is riddled from start to finish with inaccuracy. It smacks to me like Sky News in the UK. Not news but opinion. Does Rupert Murdoch have anything to do with Fox?

Yes, Murdoch owns Fox News. He started it with the intent of reaching a more conservative audience. He did that because the other stations are incredibly liberal.

That being said, it's all biased. Here. There. Everywhere. Even the precious BBC.

The Glenn Beck show is also not "news" and should not be lumped in with the proper news forum on the Fox News channel. It's commentary based media; just like any talk radio show. Just because he says something, it should not be taken as gospel and he says that on every single episode, not to take his word for it - 'Don't take it from me. Go out there and find this information yourself. Do the research yourself.'

Fox News is a good source for news however and the large ratings advantage it reaps over all of the other cable news stations should help attest to that.

[bigboab]

If that is the case then I am genuinely sorry for the state of journalism in the USA. That program is riddled from start to finish with inaccuracy. It smacks to me like Sky News in the UK. Not news but opinion. Does Rupert Murdoch have anything to do with Fox?

Yes, Murdoch owns Fox News. He started it with the intent of reaching a more conservative audience. He did that because the other stations are incredibly liberal.

That being said, it's all biased. Here. There. Everywhere. Even the precious BBC.

The Glenn Beck show is also not "news" and should not be lumped in with the proper news forum on the Fox News channel. It's commentary based media; just like any talk radio show. Just because he says something, it should not be taken as gospel and he says that on every single episode, not to take his word for it - 'Don't take it from me. Go out there and find this information yourself. Do the research yourself.'

Fox News is a good source for news however and the large ratings advantage it reaps over all of the other cable news stations should help attest to that.

Murdoch wants the BBC to close down or be privatised. That would be the last nail in the coffin of genuine news. He does not realise that we own the BBC, paid for by licence fees.

[999969999]

http://www.kfyi.com/pages/jimsharpe.html ...


There comes a time
When we need to make a show
For the world, the Web and CNN
There's no people dying,
so the best that we can do
Is create the greatest bluff of all

We must go on pretending day by day
That in Gaza, there's crisis, hunger and plague
Coz the billion bucks in aid won't buy their basic needs
Like some cheese and missiles for the kids

We'll make the world
Abandon reason
We'll make them all believe that the Hamas
Is Momma Theresa
We are peaceful travelers
With guns and our own knives
The truth will never find its way to your TV

Ooooh, we'll stab them at heart
They are soldiers, no one cares
We are small, and we took some pictures with doves
As Allah showed us, for facts there's no demand
So we will always gain the upper hand

[999969999]

If that is the case then I am genuinely sorry for the state of journalism in the USA. That program is riddled from start to finish with inaccuracy. It smacks to me like Sky News in the UK. Not news but opinion. Does Rupert Murdoch have anything to do with Fox?

Yes, Murdoch owns Fox News. He started it with the intent of reaching a more conservative audience. He did that because the other stations are incredibly liberal.

That being said, it's all biased. Here. There. Everywhere. Even the precious BBC.

The Glenn Beck show is also not "news" and should not be lumped in with the proper news forum on the Fox News channel. It's commentary based media; just like any talk radio show. Just because he says something, it should not be taken as gospel and he says that on every single episode, not to take his word for it - 'Don't take it from me. Go out there and find this information yourself. Do the research yourself.'

Fox News is a good source for news however and the large ratings advantage it reaps over all of the other cable news stations should help attest to that.

Perhaps the reason it is so popular is that average people in the United States are sick and tired of only getting to hear the news from the left wing liberal perspective on CNN and NBC.

[999969999]

If that is the case then I am genuinely sorry for the state of journalism in the USA. That program is riddled from start to finish with inaccuracy. It smacks to me like Sky News in the UK. Not news but opinion. Does Rupert Murdoch have anything to do with Fox?

Yes, Murdoch owns Fox News. He started it with the intent of reaching a more conservative audience. He did that because the other stations are incredibly liberal.

That being said, it's all biased. Here. There. Everywhere. Even the precious BBC.

The Glenn Beck show is also not "news" and should not be lumped in with the proper news forum on the Fox News channel. It's commentary based media; just like any talk radio show. Just because he says something, it should not be taken as gospel and he says that on every single episode, not to take his word for it - 'Don't take it from me. Go out there and find this information yourself. Do the research yourself.'

Fox News is a good source for news however and the large ratings advantage it reaps over all of the other cable news stations should help attest to that.

Exactly. All the other stations are so liberal that they don't even really to try to even pretend to be unbiased anymore. And obviously it is wonderful for them to do that, but for conservatives to have a voice on a news station is considered to be evil and unfair.

[tralalala]

OK, getting back on topic... As torentt said a couple pages back, I can't think of any other armed force in the world that would raid a ship using paint-balls as their main ammo. More to the point, the ship was told to reach Ashdod, then the cargo would be inspected and then shipped to Gaza if found clear.

On top of that, it's clearly obvious the people aboard that ship had themselves well prepared for a battle with the Navy Seals (grenades, knives, rods etc.) - Hardly a "quiet attempt" at breaching the blockade.

Re. blockade - Not many people may know this, but the strips entire gas, petrol and water supplies come from Israel. It's all "ours", yet we hand it over to people who's leaders are totally for firing rockets and co. over into Israel.. Sometimes I ask myself why we bother. Let them live for themselves and cut off the supplies which we give them off of our resources.


Anyway, with all due respect, these people were completely up to cause mischief, and try show the world how nasty the Israeli soldiers are, when in fact the actually proved the opposite - We are, in fact, probably the most humane army on the planet. The footage speaks for itself.

[999969999]

OK, getting back on topic... As torentt said a couple pages back, I can't think of any other armed force in the world that would raid a ship using paint-balls as their main ammo. More to the point, the ship was told to reach Ashdod, then the cargo would be inspected and then shipped to Gaza if found clear.

On top of that, it's clearly obvious the people aboard that ship had themselves well prepared for a battle with the Navy Seals (grenades, knives, rods etc.) - Hardly a "quiet attempt" at breaching the blockade.

Re. blockade - Not many people may know this, but the strips entire gas, petrol and water supplies come from Israel. It's all "ours", yet we hand it over to people who's leaders are totally for firing rockets and co. over into Israel.. Sometimes I ask myself why we bother. Let them live for themselves and cut off the supplies which we give them off of our resources.


Anyway, with all due respect, these people were completely up to cause mischief, and try show the world how nasty the Israeli soldiers are, when in fact the actually proved the opposite - We are, in fact, probably the most humane army on the planet. The footage speaks for itself.

http://www.kfyi.com/pages/jimsharpe.html

Like the video on the above website points out, they are trying to make the IDF look like Jack the Ripper, and they are trying to make Hamas look like Mother Theresa. Liberals just love to turn the truth upside down on its head.

[tralalala]

Link doesn't work, but yes, the point was to show how barbaric we, the IDF soldiers are, when in reality we are trained and taught to only use brutal force when in definite need. Fatal force may only be used in a life-threatening case, i.e the case above.

[bigboab]

This has all happened before. The only difference was that it was the Jewish refugees that the British Navy stopped. Just in case anyone is thinking that they were only refugees remember that the Jews were the terrorists in those days. blowing up British establishments and killing British soldiers. I dont take sides in either case. Unlike Fox I just point to the truth.:)

http://www.guardian.co.uk/commentisfree/2010/jun/02/israel-flotilla-exodus

[torrentt]

something interesting IDF has just released:
http://www.ynetnews.com/articles/0,7340,L-3899131,00.html
listen to the audio and listen carefully for the words of the peace activists.

of course all the anti-israeli won't be convinced even with this proof that these people are anything but peace activists.

[Skiz]

Didn't they find someone who was on the terrorist watch list, listed among the "peace activists"?

[999969999]

Link doesn't work, but yes, the point was to show how barbaric we, the IDF soldiers are, when in reality we are trained and taught to only use brutal force when in definite need. Fatal force may only be used in a life-threatening case, i.e the case above.

Hmmmm... the link works for me.

Try this direct link... http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2KUcv452KbU

Or go to YouTube.com and search for "We Con The World" and it will come up.

[999969999]

This has all happened before. The only difference was that it was the Jewish refugees that the British Navy stopped. Just in case anyone is thinking that they were only refugees remember that the Jews were the terrorists in those days. blowing up British establishments and killing British soldiers. I dont take sides in either case. Unlike Fox I just point to the truth.:)

http://www.guardian.co.uk/commentisfree/2010/jun/02/israel-flotilla-exodus

Yeah, it's so evil to have any conservative point of view in the news. We must only hear from the liberal point of view when we watch the news on CNN and NBC. Everything else is evil and should not be listened to. But wait a minute, I thought liberals were supposed to be open minded?

[devilsadvocate]

Me, I'm not looking for a "point of view". I'm looking for facts and accurate reporting.

Truth has no bias. On the other hand, lies -----

[bigboab]

This has all happened before. The only difference was that it was the Jewish refugees that the British Navy stopped. Just in case anyone is thinking that they were only refugees remember that the Jews were the terrorists in those days. blowing up British establishments and killing British soldiers. I dont take sides in either case. Unlike Fox I just point to the truth.:)

http://www.guardian.co.uk/commentisfree/2010/jun/02/israel-flotilla-exodus

Yeah, it's so evil to have any conservative point of view in the news. We must only hear from the liberal point of view when we watch the news on CNN and NBC. Everything else is evil and should not be listened to. But wait a minute, I thought liberals were supposed to be open minded?

There should be no point of view, Liberal or otherwise. It should be factual. That is the trouble with people. they only hear what they want to hear then make arguments to support their own theories. 95% of the time that is just what they are, theories. Most of them stop reading dictionaries when they reach the word consecutive, because the next word is consensus. I must admit to buying two daily papers. One with a right wing view and the other a left wing view. It opens my eyes. Otherwise I could not read them.:lol:

[torrentt]

bigboab, all bbc, skynews, al-Jazeera are clearly not showing all the facts which are in favor of Israel, and they dedicate much more time showing the Palestinian side of the story, then the Israeli side.
sometimes when i watch those channels, I can see they are interviewing maybe 4 pro-Palestinians (not only Palestenians but also British and Americans - this is important because that when the viewers are seeing that one of their own is pro-Palestinians, the effect on them is greater) and only 1 pro-Israeli, while the interviewer is clearly much more satisfied with the pro-Palestinians answers. The time dedicated for each to answer is also in favor of the pro-Palestinians.

you can't possibly say that they aren't biased.

[devilsadvocate]

bigboab, all bbc, skynews, al-Jazeera are clearly not showing all the facts which are in favor of Israel

On what do you base this theory?

[999969999]

bigboab, all bbc, skynews, al-Jazeera are clearly not showing all the facts which are in favor of Israel

On what do you base this theory?

Oh come on, are you serious? Every time I watch any "mainstream" (read liberal) news station such as CNN, NBC, ABC, CBS, etc., the reporting about Israel is always very slanted against Israel. And these aren't muslim dominated stations (yet). Al-Jazeera is a muslim news network, so it is going to be blatantly biased against the Jewish state of Israel.

What's weird about the liberals being so in step with the radical muslims is that if they get their way, and they take over the western nations, liberals are going to quickly find their freedoms taken away from them as sharia law would not allow liberals to do a lot of the things that they currently enjoy doing. Imagine all the abortion loving left wing feminists having to wear burqas? I know their current ideology is that the enemy of their enemy is their friend, and they will support anything that is against traditional conservative American values and principles, but in the end, the law of unintended consequences is going to jump up and bite them in the ass. Be careful what you wish for, liberals. You just might get it.

Well, this is my last post until fall. I'm going to be very busy for the next few weeks preparing for my trip and summer vacation, and then I'm out of Eagar and Arizona for months. So, have a fun summer everybody! I'll be back later to be the forum troll you all love to hate....

p.s.-- what happened to Clocky? He was mean, but fun to fight with.

[devilsadvocate]

Seriously, you listen to WAY too much talk radio. Your posts are almost verbatim transcripts of any generic talker.

The link Torrent posted by Beck started with Beck complaining that "you won't see this on the "other stations" and he wondered why. Except that it was shown on every station (you see Beck is telling fibs). And Torrent wants us to take the rest seriously.

You are fine with bias, as long as it fits your worldview.

Why are you leaving AZ? I thought you'd be part of the "buycott"

[sez]

These videos clearly speak towards the Israeli version of this story http://goo.gl/XCko

[devilsadvocate]

These videos clearly speak towards the Israeli version of this story http://goo.gl/XCko

That's one of the better summations of the "video evidence", thanks for the link. Seems that fake acorn pimp guy is not the only one with video editing software.

With the released videos carefully edited to portray competing narratives of victim and aggressor, it remains unclear who initiated the violence.

[torrentt]

That's one of the better summations of the "video evidence", thanks for the link. Seems that fake acorn pimp guy is not the only one with video editing software.

With the released videos carefully edited to portray competing narratives of victim and aggressor, it remains unclear who initiated the violence.

you're that typical anti-Israel guy, no matter what evidence you'll get, either it doesn't prove anything or its edited or i don't know what.
Hence, i'm ceasing my participation in this debate, cuz its a waste of time.

[devilsadvocate]

That's one of the better summations of the "video evidence", thanks for the link. Seems that fake acorn pimp guy is not the only one with video editing software.


you're that typical anti-Israel guy, no matter what evidence you'll get, either it doesn't prove anything or its edited or i don't know what.
Hence, i'm ceasing my participation in this debate, cuz its a waste of time.

You are a typical pro Israel guy who supports every action without question, no matter the evidence, and when any inconvenient question is put forth resorts to calling the questioner anti Israel or "with the terrorists" instead of actually answering. A tactic common to your ilk when you lack a coherent response.

Actually I'm totally disinterested in taking either side. I am with number 9 on the USA remaining neutral (except he says he's neutral while taking the Israeli side). I simply pointed to an opinion in a link that I agree with- that BOTH SIDES have released EDITED video to make their case. Apparently agreeing with this fact makes me anti Israel.

I already stated
Israel has a right to exist and to defend itself, this doesn't mean that it should be taken for granted that they are always or even mostly acting justly or in self defense. The same applies to the Palestinians or anyone else for that matter

[Totti]

A simple video to explain the whole situation
FOGG_osOoVg

[Expeto]

A simple video to explain the whole situation
FOGG_osOoVg

Thanks for the link, call me weird but I prefer getting my explanations about international events not from a youtube music video.

Turks was very disrespectful in the Davos, it was unacceptable.

But attacking an unarmed ship in international waters? This isn't disrespectful, this is illegal.

Video was just a joke, in such low quality even my granny can edit that video, what they can pay for a helicopter strike but they can't buy a average camera?
Also there was only few minutes...who knows what happened before that events?

And lets don't forgot the fact that all of the eye witnesses wasn't turks, there were people from other nations that said there was no arms in the ship.

[Totti]

If you prefer to get your facts from the news then sorry to say but they are not so credible. before saying they where innocent peace activists get your fact's right! these people were payed terrorists with links to al-queda in the past. Unarmed i suppose the soldiers hit them self's with mettle rods :\.... You my friend are seriously outdated and misinformed

[Skiz]

If you prefer to get your facts from the news then sorry to say but they are not so credible. before saying they where innocent peace activists get your fact's right! these people were payed terrorists with links to al-queda in the past. Unarmed i suppose the soldiers hit them self's with mettle rods :\.... You my friend are seriously outdated and misinformed

Genius.

The news is biased to a point that it is not worth watching, so you fall back on youtube as a credible inlet. No irony there at all... :whistling

[Totti]

I'm not saying all news is bias and this did start out as a youtube video but on a Israeli political site http://www.latma.co.il/ made to show the situation in a more truthful point of view !

[Expeto]

a more truthful point of view !

the thing about truthful point of view is, you can't get it from Israel or Turkey when the it is a Israel vs Turks argument.

There is no denying they just made a show in DAVOS, this song might be right for that case.

I'm neither in both sides and the facts and logic suggests turks are right in this one.

Its also pretty interesting that the government apologized for "THE TRUTH" (http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/world/middle_east/10253357.stm)


You my friend are seriously outdated and misinformed
You cite youtube for facts and I'm the misinformed?

Also, you know turks can also sing and they also have political websites...