This place is falling apart

[j2k4]

Several things:

This useless new format sucks; as of this morning, no dates, and entire chunks of postage are missing.

Also, this 'Arizona Immigration" thread...well, the idiocy contained therein well-exceeds even the very accomodating historical standards of this board.

Insinuations of racism are being deployed purely as tools intended to quell argument and debate, which tactic (in case no one has noticed) has the effect of making genuine racism much more difficult to discern.

It literally seems to be the case that the mere act of waking up in the morning constitutes an act of racism, subject to the bastardized sensibilities of such as the leet-pirate guy.

Now he wants a mod-sanctioned venue in order to conduct some sort of open-warfare.

I think he should be tossed, but for reasons of his obstinance rather than his ethnicity; after all, racism has nothing at all to do with it.

[Rart]

Are you suffering from this (http://filesharingtalk.com/threads/422150-Timestamps-amp-Skins) problem? Otherwise the dates have been working perfectly fine...

Where are giant chucks of postage missing?

And I'm grateful that at least someone understands where I'm coming from, rather than ridiculing all the moderating I'm doing in this section...

[megabyteme]

I am the one who requested the no-holds-barred transfer/new Lounge thread BECAUSE L33t's posts had been deleted (edit- AND HE HAD BEEN SINGLED OUT FOR INFRACTIONS). Not only was this an act of silencing L33t, it shows the climate we are in regarding the issue at hand. No one on the "Against side" (L33t, myself, clocker, devilsadvocate, and drop-ins) had even REPORTED 9's, or anyone else.

In terms of underhanded tactics, silencing someone- especially singling them out for removal from the site is very low.

J2, I have long held respect for you. I would NEVER resort to the type of down-and-dirty name calling that was thrown at 9's- he even admitted that he was trolling with some of his posts. This topic directly effects L33t's family, and himself. Emotional responses are quite understandable. Silencing him will NOT make the situation better.

[999969999]

I am the one who requested the no-holds-barred transfer/new Lounge thread BECAUSE L33t's posts had been deleted (edit- AND HE HAD BEEN SINGLED OUT FOR INFRACTIONS). Not only was this an act of silencing L33t, it shows the climate we are in regarding the issue at hand. No one on the "Against side" (L33t, myself, clocker, devilsadvocate, and drop-ins) had even REPORTED 9's, or anyone else.

In terms of underhanded tactics, silencing someone- especially singling them out for removal from the site is very low.

J2, I have long held respect for you. I would NEVER resort to the type of down-and-dirty name calling that was thrown at 9's- he even admitted that he was trolling with some of his posts. This topic directly effects L33t's family, and himself. Emotional responses are quite understandable. Silencing him will NOT make the situation better.

Hey, I did receive a message from a moderator to tone it down, and I have.

It won't be as funny, but oh well.

Now, I think everyone needs to tone it down.

[Rart]

I am the one who requested the no-holds-barred transfer/new Lounge thread BECAUSE L33t's posts had been deleted (edit- AND HE HAD BEEN SINGLED OUT FOR INFRACTIONS). Not only was this an act of silencing L33t, it shows the climate we are in regarding the issue at hand. No one on the "Against side" (L33t, myself, clocker, devilsadvocate, and drop-ins) had even REPORTED 9's, or anyone else.

MBM, I have always seen you as a decent fellow, but your stubbornness to recognize even the most basic of facts amazed me to no end.

Leet was infracted and so called "censored" long before 99996999 ever started posting in his thread. 999969999's posting habits have NOTHING to do with it. His outright hostile and racially sensitive posts clearly conflicted with the nature of this forum, and was completely uncalled for in a thread that, without him, was plenty civilized and aptly discussing the issues at hand without resorting to such unnecessary, uncalled for aggression. If anyone had posted in such a manner in any of the other sections (Aside from maybe the lounge) I would acted in the exact same manner (and many other mods have given out hostile posting infractions for much less).

999969999's and to some extent leet's posting habits after he started posting there are a completely different issue entirely, and I have already addressed that.

And either way, just because leet may be in some way "personally involved" with this issue is in absolutely no way an excuse for his behavior. If it's a personal issue, you keep it that way. You don't take it out on a public forum. You report the offensive issues, and move on. I am Asian, yet you don't see my freaking out every time someone stereotypes Asians on the forum (which has happened on the forum). Personal issues are personal for a reason, it's no excuse for how he has behaved on this forum.

[megabyteme]

My point, Rart, is that the "against side" has not been reporting people (at any time) in an effort to silence them.

It is obvious that this blatant attempt to single out Mexican-Americans in Arizona will be struck down as unconstitutional. The real underlying issue here (in Arizona and this site, sadly), is that racism IS still a prevalent mind-set. Sitting back and let the (unknowing) racists talk amongst themselves is a poor way to run an open forum.

As I have been arguing... let all voices be heard with as much passion and insight as they can bring. If that gets "ugly" so be it.

[j2k4]

Now, I just came back in here to check this thread, and there are no dates or time-stamps, and the posts are ordered in reverse.

WTF?

I finished my last visit by re-ordering my settings; apparently none of it 'took'.

When I typed my last post, I found my last post in the Immigration thread was gone, and the last wad of back-and-forth about starting a bitch-thread in The Lounge was entirely missing.

I am going to try one more time to find it...

[Skiz]

Several things:

This useless new format sucks; as of this morning, no dates, and entire chunks of postage are missing.

Also, this 'Arizona Immigration" thread...well, the idiocy contained therein well-exceeds even the very accommodating historical standards of this board.

Insinuations of racism are being deployed purely as tools intended to quell argument and debate, which tactic (in case no one has noticed) has the effect of making genuine racism much more difficult to discern.

It literally seems to be the case that the mere act of waking up in the morning constitutes an act of racism, subject to the bastardized sensibilities of such as the leet-pirate guy.

Now he wants a mod-sanctioned venue in order to conduct some sort of open-warfare.

I think he should be tossed, but for reasons of his obstinance rather than his ethnicity; after all, racism has nothing at all to do with it.

THIS JUST IN!!! SPELLING POLICE NABS J2!!1 :O

Back to your comment... I started that AZ thread but gave up on it weeks ago with the incoherent ramblings of l33tpirate guy. It was just the last straw for me in that section; I haven't been able to foster a discussion in that section for some time. If it isn't rambling members, it's the same ol' partisan-line blame games in every thread. The responses from the regulars are about as predictable as clockwork, and I don't want to read it any more. Thus it doesn't get moderated unless someone reports it.

If someone is posting in a manner that doesn't adhere to the section guidelines or board rules, just report it and we'll deal with it promptly. I wish we had a higher caliber of member in that section, but with the ever growing number of members the pool is growing more diluted. You've been a mod; you know our best line of defense is the report button. :mellow:

[Rart]

My point, Rart, is that the "against side" has not been reporting people (at any time) in an effort to silence them.

Why do you feel the need to completely over dramatize everything? :ermm:

This is no "attempt" to silence any one or anything, and the fact that you're even mentioning this is absurd. It was reported because the post was clearly against the rules of the section, and as of such it was deleted. There's nothing else to it.



As I have been arguing... let all voices be heard with as much passion and insight as they can bring.

If
oh and another thing you fucking moron bitch of an idiot, you can tell you didnt learn anything in that sweatbox you called school for 5 years till you dropped out. is your idea of contructive passion to bring "insight" into a discussion, then maybe you're in the wrong forum.

[megabyteme]

We've already discussed context and escalation. The fact that L33t's posts were the only ones being deleted did not help "tone him down".

If you read the last 5-8 pages, L33t mentioned what I already knew- he really has no problem with whites, or anyone else. His problem was with the mentality of the participants. And, yes, sometimes they deserved to get slapped. Hopefully, they are tough enough to take someone "not playing nice". Some of his deleted posts were not offensive, BTW.

[megabyteme]

Oh, and just noticed the irony that I am the one being "overly dramatic"- by posting in someone else's thread entitled, "This Place Is Falling Apart" bases on the postings of one individual. :lol:

Just let L33t, and everyone else, post (as long as it is on-topic) what they want. If their posts make them look like a buffoon, everyone will be able to read that they are.


And, yes, silencing opponents is a centuries-old (cowardly) tactic used when one has a weak argument, yet holds a popular position. It's a way of maintaining power through majority.

[j2k4]

Well, then.

I have been labelled a racist by 'leet' (I suppose I am leaving myself open to another charge by not fully typing out his name).

My basic curiosity over just what border states are to do about the flood of inbound and undocumented people is unabated, and all that he has offered are blanket slams of racism and a proffer of biometrics as an infallible solution.

Leaving the first aside, how is it that biometrics/implants are to be considered a solution?

How long before biometrics can be had on the street-corner, just like a one-off driver's license or passport?

It occurs to me that such an implant could seriously compromise one's privacy, but perhaps 'leet' hasn't considered this.

I wonder, too, why no one initiates a discussion as to why these people seem not to be the least inclined to expend much effort in aid of improving their lot in Mexico.

You don't like it where you are?

Break out the brooms and clean up your own shit.

What (if anything) does he propose we do about the sheer size of the influx of people and the load it puts on an inadequate U.S. infrastructure?

I went back to the beginning of the thread - well before my minimal involvement - and he was breaking out the racism charge almost immediately.

The rest is pretty much blather; there was something about manifest destiny being 'bullshit', which I took to be a jab at the southern aspect of America's westward expansion, but I would point out that the idea was formulated/ideated by people with bigger brains than 'leets', and quite possibly bigger even than my own.

I think, in order to effectively rebut an idea like manifest destiny, something more substantial than a label of 'bullshit' is required.

He seems to believe mere belligerence is sufficient to make his point, and any resistance need only be met by a requisite increase in belligerence or the volume with which it is broadcast.

His participation in the thread began with an outrage that escalated throughout; the only horn he blew was "racism", and the only tactic he employed was...well, I don't remember any tactics, actually.

I would normally forgo any involvement in a thread he posts in, but I find his bullying style off-putting; I think it chills any prospect of the wider participation the Drawing Room needs.

[Rart]

We've already discussed context and escalation. The fact that L33t's posts were the only ones being deleted did not help "tone him down".

The point of moderation is not to comfort people in a certain manner to their liking and "hope" they it tones them down. He was breaking the rules, simply put. And as of such, he gets warned (and moderated) for it. He doesn't receive any exclusion from rules that apply to every single member of the board, in every single section of the board. I'm not here to baby him into cooperation with the rules. If he doesn't like the rules here (which by the standard of most forums, is extremely lenient), he doesn't have to post.

And there was no "context and escalation". For the entire first half of the thread, I can see no faults in the discussion. It was a perfectly well civilized and productive discussion, aside from the obvious brash remarks from leetpirateperson. You can argue that to an extent 999969999's posts matched that criteria of "context and escalation", but as for this discussion, it is completely irrelevant (as I've mentioned over and over again now...), as leet's infractions and warnings were all received well before 9 started posting.



If you read the last 5-8 pages, L33t mentioned what I already knew- he really has no problem with whites, or anyone else. His problem was with the mentality of the participants. And, yes, sometimes they deserved to get slapped. Hopefully, they are tough enough to take someone "not playing nice". Some of his deleted posts were not offensive, BTW.

You seem to have some sort of mentality that just because you sympathize with whatever sort of situationexcuse leetpirate puts out for his brash posting habits, that he should recieve some sort of exclusion from the rules. This is not the case. He is just like anyone else on this board. People in other parts of the board have been warned for less. I'm not about to treat him differently for whatever he claims dignifies his actions. All the people he brashly insulted with incredibly hostile posts did not "deserve to get slapped". As far as I can see, it was very well civilized and productive without his posting habits. There is no need to bring that kind of attitude into the discussion.

And I'd love to see from any of those posts that I quoted of his a remark that you claim is "not offensive".

[Cabalo]

I've went through most of that thread (finally) and I agree with all the actions Rart took. Not that this was something in need to be reinforced.

This board must be one of the most lenient ones on the web, but there are a few quite simple and clear rules that were broken. If someone breaks the rules, then he gets warned/infracted. It doesn't matter if I (or any other mod) has any kind of sympathy for the cause or not. It's not relevant to the issue. Acting otherwise would be sloppy moderation.

I'm a white European Latin, as the Portuguese, Spanish, Italian and French are, for example. I could certainly be compelled to to have sympathy for his cause, but the board's rules come first. Everyone can feel sympathy for a cause, but when having responsibilities on any place, he must try to keep it as unbiased as possible, given everyone makes mistakes, of course.

See, neither Rart or anyone else on the mod team has anything against l33tpirata13, or holds any grudges. Don't try to make things personal, when they aren't. It didn't happen that way.

[megabyteme]

I thank both of you for your time and efforts on this.

There are still some unresolved topical issues (regarding the Ariz. mentality/law), but am satisfied with the modding ones as they stand. :)