Well, It's Official.

[MediaSlayer]

For those that were wondering whether or not Palastine "is really" a country, it's not, according to EU spokesman Gerassimos Thomas. Recently the EU presented a survey to about 500 people from each of its member states. They were asked to choose from 15 countries which one was more of a threat to world peace. 59% of those polled said that Israel was the biggest threat to world peace. America was second. When pressed about why palastine wasn't included, Thomas said "It is not a country". Stay tuned for the next EU poll, due to be conducted when hell freezes over-"Is fascism dead?"

[blackhatknight]

and extremely evocitive post (and how they should be therefore excellent), i'm afraid i have to agree palistine is not a country, if it is why???

However i do take on the EU's comments i would also agree the the biggest threats to world peace are Israel and the USA is it not a pity however it was worded that way, i.e. the biggest threat to world peace, i would argue those most likely to revolutionise the world, whilst i can not argue that these countries have always had a wholesome responense (and those that read my post will know my criticisms of them) they are nations i believe have good if not at times misguided intentions

I would end with a word of warning to american diplomats now is your time to craft your empire, other nations have had their time, some have done better than others be careful of how history will record you. If ever, due to technoligical and connectivity advances your history will be more discriminationively judged than ours (european countries)

[nikita69]

I haven't read the details about yet, however, some questions:
why only 500 surveyed, and it reached the mass media
I briefly heard it on the news, that Israel said something relating EU shows deep roots of anti-semitism. they got to this conclusion based on 500 OPINIONS?

[j2k4]

So we ARE setting out to construct an empire!

I was lied to! :o

I feel so cheated. :(



Think I'll move to Canada, to live amid perfection; maybe it'll rub off, eh? EH?

[MediaSlayer]

Originally posted by nikita69@4 November 2003 - 05:10
I haven't read the details about yet, however, some questions:
why only 500 surveyed, and it reached the mass media
I briefly heard it on the news, that Israel said something relating EU shows deep roots of anti-semitism. they got to this conclusion based on 500 OPINIONS?

500 people from each of its member states

I think the timing of this is particularly bad(or good depending on your stance towards Israel), considering tensions are already high over this issue. I am eagerly awaiting those members who constantly preach "Jews control the media" to get their ass in here and explain how a Jewish controlled media would allow this.

[j2k4]

Originally posted by MediaSlayer+4 November 2003 - 07:59--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td>QUOTE (MediaSlayer @ 4 November 2003 - 07:59)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'> <!--QuoteBegin-nikita69@4 November 2003 - 05:10
I haven&#39;t read the details about yet, however, some questions:
why only 500 surveyed, and it reached the mass media
I briefly heard it on the news, that Israel said something relating EU shows deep roots of anti-semitism.&nbsp; they got to this conclusion based on 500 OPINIONS?

500 people from each of its member states

I think the timing of this is particularly bad(or good depending on your stance towards Israel), considering tensions are already high over this issue. I am eagerly awaiting those members who constantly preach "Jews control the media" to get their ass in here and explain how a Jewish controlled media would allow this. [/b][/quote]
Ooooooh.......

We shant wait long, I think.

They should be along shortly with inane speculation about an obscure (but somehow very well-known amongst anti-semites) conspiracy to gain sympathy through a cunningly perceived and constructed "veil" of oppression.

Think in terms of "The Wizard of Oz". ;)

[Billy_Dean]

Well I should think it&#39;s quite obvious&#33; The actual result was 80% thought it was Israel, but the fucking jewish media rigged the result&#33;



:)

[MediaSlayer]

yeah, what&#39;s more is there aren&#39;t even any Jews left in the world, but the Jewish media is suppressing that too&#33; Also, I can travel through space on my flying carpet and sip tea with a flying pig (http://www.comedycentral.com/mp/play.php?player=realplayer&type=v&quality=high&reposid=62901207)&#33;

[Rat Faced]

Its hard to not report something like this.

500 people from each nation in the EU is a lot of people, going back to Local papers, in addition to all the public owned media coverage.

I notice you never included a "Source"........whats the betting it was given as little coverage as could possibly be managed without raising eyebrows...I mean there were 1000&#39;s of people involved here, in a major International Consultation/Survey exercise. Its not exactly something that happens every day. :rolleyes:



Pallestine isnt a country. It lacks a very basic necessity for being a country..

Self-governing; independent: a sovereign state

[MediaSlayer]

for anyone who wanted a source (http://story.news.yahoo.com/news?tmpl=story&u=/afp/20031103/wl_mideast_afp/eu_poll_israel_031103172948).

[Rat Faced]

If you dont want to hear the answers..dont ask the questions.

:rolleyes:


In answer to your question re: Jewish Media.... that is yahoo.

Where is the media coverage?

I didnt hear about this at all, until you posted it...although in all fairness I&#39;ve been pre-occupied with my mates death/Cremation the last few days and havent looked for news..

Or maybe they are reacting to the Israeli comments:


"We are not only sad but outraged. Not at European citizens, but at those who are responsible for forming public opinion," the embassy added.



Forming public opinion?

You mean there is a spin to the news?

Well i never...

:-"

[chinook_apache]

lol there we go the illegal zionist state is the most threat for global peace. immediatly the zionist foreign minister called it &#39;propaganda&#39; and &#39;anti-semtic&#39;. see that for once the world has said somthing about the state and they dismiss it as &#39;anti semetic&#39;. one person who posted a post here is rite...the jewish media must have turned down the percentage. LOL whats the ppl coming to, cant we say something to the zionist state, so anything we say against them is propaganda and anti semetic. <_<

[MediaSlayer]

Originally posted by Rat Faced@4 November 2003 - 21:32
If you dont want to hear the answers..dont ask the questions.

:rolleyes:



@ratfaced-What question? Please explain.

@chinook apache-those same methods(attack a group of people and then accuse them of complaining too much) can be used for great evil, f.y.i. It has happened many times throughout history, go to the library and read about it.

[Rat Faced]

Just general Mediaslayer..........they werent the answers the EU leadership wanted either ;)

[MediaSlayer]

@Ratfaced-I didn&#39;t realize this

Just general Mediaslayer
was a proper sentence in English, perhaps I need to brush up on my grammar.
I&#39;m guessing you were making a general statement about the EU&#39;s asking of the question in the first place, but then this

If you dont want to hear the answers..dont ask the questions.

still doesn&#39;t make sense because you would be hard pressed to convince me Jews pushed to have that question asked. It looks like a politically motivated stunt, perpetrated by brussels, to further isolate Israel and mold/reinforce public opinion to suit their needs.

[internet.news]

both israel people and palestinians - although they are just humans, it is sad to see
a new attack every weel - must stop&#33;

ok, I think there are I am sure some israel people are living in peace
together with palestininans are good friends, sure...

~nice dreams...

[MediaSlayer]

Wimmern, das eine positive Anzeige war :)

[Billy_Dean]

Originally posted by Mediaslayer
It looks like a politically motivated stunt, perpetrated by brussels, to further isolate Israel and mold/reinforce public opinion to suit their needs.

Everthing is a plot with you lot, you just don&#39;t understand that the majority of the world doesn&#39;t like Israel, or what they are doing. How many UN resolutions has Israel ignored now? They act like they have a special place in the world, and everyone else can get fucked. The Israeli state is a terrorist state, that&#39;s how the world sees them. Trust you to muddy the waters with your "media plot" smokescreen.


"We are not only sad but outraged. Not at European citizens, but at those who are responsible for forming public opinion," the embassy added.

What an outrageous statement that was&#33;&#33; Anyone who says something anti-Israeli must have had their minds manipulated.

Stop murdering Palestinians; withdraw from the occupied territories; have the same respect for UN resolutions that you demand from others; then ask the world how they feel.


:)

[MediaSlayer]

I see your tone has changed a little bit since your moderation, I respect that.

I disagree with your views.


Trust you to muddy the waters with your "media plot" smokescreen.


Was I ever preaching about how "Jews control the media"? No, it was chinook and others. I am only defending my people and asking for some eyewitness accounts of mistreatment at the hands of Jews. Not a single person could even present one. However, many have responded with propaganda as you have. Just because your TV tells you something doesn&#39;t make it true. If the Israelis are notorious human rights violators wouldn&#39;t some of those violations involve people on this forum? I have met many Israelis and didn&#39;t notice anything out of the ordinary about them. If they are murderers, wouldn&#39;t they murder outside their homeland as well? Israelis living in Europe, for example. Are they killing Europeans left and right? I have alot of contact with Europeans, especially people from the UK, in my everyday life. Many of them are anti-Israeli. When pressed about why, though, they normally can&#39;t give a reason without mentioning Israel or Palastine(which, as noted in the 1st post, isn&#39;t a country). That&#39;s pretty scary. If America went on a french canadian killing spree because of stuff France was doing, wouldn&#39;t that be just as bad? Wouldn&#39;t there be an outcry? Use common sense. If the Israelis you meet in everyday life don&#39;t seem like murderers, but you are told "they really are" you might want to work it out for yourself, rather than trusting the judgement of someone else. Who is brainwashing who?

[Rat Faced]

But you are using the same arguments that we use re: Pallestinians.

ie: They arent all murderers/terrorists.

As such, we have to agree.

And, you would have to agree with us.

Which of the following do you think is justified?

In 1948 thousands of Palestinians took refuge or were driven from their homes during the war that followed the proclamation of the state of Israel. Many settled in Lebanon.... Israel refuses to acknowledge their Right of Return, despite UN resolutions to that effect.

In 1968, Israeli commandos blew up 13 airliners at Beirut airport Israel said the attack on Beirut airport was a reprisal for an attack in Athens by Palestinian guerrillas. ...... since when have the Palestinians had Airliners?

In March 1978, in retaliation for the killing of more than 30 bus riders in a raid by sea-borne guerrillas near Tel Aviv, Israel attacked PLO positions in south Lebanon and occupied a 10 km (six mile)-wide strip north of the Lebanese border. About 1,500 people were killed, mostly Lebanese and Palestinian civilians. Some of the Israeli forces pulled out, but not before handing over the area

Lebanon&#39;s civil war: U.N. Security Council resolution 425 ordered the Israelis to leave. They refused. The United Nations set up UNIFIL, a 5,000-strong peacekeeping force to help restore Lebanese state authority down to the border. Israeli troops did not let it reach the border.

In 1981, PLO guerrillas rained Katyusha rockets into the border strip. Israel launched air raids on Beirut in retaliation, killing hundreds of of civilians. ..........remember, the Border Strip wasnt Israel, and shouldnt have been occupied by Israeli troops, however they bombed a city in reprisal.

In July 1982, Israel invaded Lebanon with the declared aim of routing Palestinian guerrillas. It cited as justification an attack that seriously wounded its ambassador in London. Israeli Defence Minister Ariel Sharon promised his army would stop after 40 km (25 miles) but it encircled Beirut, 40 km further north. After bombardments, PLO fighters agreed to leave the city. About 20,000 people were killed, mostly Palestinian and Lebanese civilians.

In September 1982, Israeli forces stormed west Beirut after pro-Israeli Christian leader Bashir Gemayel, who days earlier had been elected president, was assassinated. Israeli troops ringing the Palestinian refugee camps of Sabra and Shatila allowed revenge-seeking Christian militiamen into the shantytowns. More than 1500 of refugees were slaughtered and Israel was widely condemned.

In 1985, Bruised by world outrage and hurt by mounting guerrilla attacks by Hizbullah guerrillas, Israel, under Prime Minister Shimon Peres, pulled most of its forces out of Lebanon and set up a 15 km (nine mile) wide occupation zone . But its continued presence stirred the resentment of local south Lebanese. Israel then faced a more relentless resistance, Hizbullah.

In February 1992, Israeli helicopter gunships rocketed the car of Hizbollah leader Sheikh Abbas Musawi, killing him, his wife and son. Rocket attacks into northern Israel followed, then Israeli forces stormed two villages north of the occupation zone.

In July 1993, Israel unleashed "Operation Accountability," of week-long air, artillery and naval blitz in which 130 people, mostly Lebanese civilians, died and 300,000 fled their homes. This was in response to killing seven Israeli soldiers by Hizbullah resistance.

In April 11, 1996, Israel unleashed "Operation Grapes of Wrath" in which more than 170 people, mostly women and children were killed, including 102 refugees shelled at a U.N. base in the south.



Quite frankly, Israel is its own worst enemy.

I Find no surprise in the findings of the survey, except in that most of the above is not given the media coverage that a bomb in Israel is.....

[MediaSlayer]

rat faced i&#39;m not picking on you but can you please use less pronouns or be more clear. I&#39;m talking about the notion that "Jews control the media" in an effort to find out if it exists, because I have never seen any 1st hand proof that it does. Where do Palastinians fit into that?

[Rat Faced]

The thread is about why Europeans think Israel is a threat to world peace..

If you want to talk jewish conspiracies again (which i have already stated do not exist, imho), feel free to bump your thread back up.

:P

[MediaSlayer]

Let me be more clear. I started the thread to discuss the fact that an EU representative confirmed that Palastine is not a country. This was interesting to me, because many people talk about Israelis living on "stolen land" and about "Palastine". Then that story broke, confirming that Palastine is not a country. It would seem then, all the talk about "illegal occupation" would stop. Of course that representative&#39;s remarks could be taken several different ways, but nonetheless. Anyway, after that Billy Dean said this


Well I should think it&#39;s quite obvious&#33; The actual result was 80% thought it was Israel, but the fucking jewish media rigged the result&#33;



which brought up the subject of a "Jewish controlled media".

[Rat Faced]

Well, put it this way..

I put in Google the words:

EU Israel World Peace

No "Search for news" etc....you usually dont need it.

The only major UK media to have anything online, easily found by IT newbies, about this huge story is "The Gardian"

Where is the reports from The Sun (widest distribution), owned by Rupert Murdoch...or even The Times, that bastian of reporting for a couple of centuries...until Rupert Murdoch bought them out.

I havent seen any newspapers, or watched any TV.....but both these papers, and many others have their stories on the web...without need for special search criteria, usually.

We often quote them as sources.

In fact, out of all the millions of possible sources...I got 1 (one) page that mentioned it, the 2nd page etc were going back to news stories earlier in this year and previous years.

You have to actually instruct the engine to look for "news", on this one, to get any results....I have never had to do this before...ever.




Edit:

FINALLY...found some BBC coverage.

Unfortunately even the BBC, is scared to actually report this story, and are just quoting others....... (http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/middle_east/3243305.stm)

Press debates &#39;peace threat&#39; poll


Arabic newspapers have warmly welcomed a recent EU survey suggesting that nearly 60% of Europeans regard Israel as the greatest threat to world peace.

Unlike Americans, Europeans have not been fooled by Israeli propaganda and see Israel for the aggressive state it really is, the papers say.

Reaction to the poll in Israeli papers, by contrast, ranged from angry rejection to calls for a change of policy towards the Palestinians.


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Something is moving in Europe. Indeed, the optimists can say the De Gaulle "project" - of a Europe free to make its own decisions from the Urals to the Atlantic - is no mere pipedream... The most significant indication of this qualitative shift is what is happening within the context of public opinion and not in official circles... This transformation in the European mindset indicates the beginning of the collapse of the appeasement of Israel which has lasted for decades.

Al-Ba&#39;th - Syria


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

The Zionists are angry because of what Europe said about them... It is odd that the Zionist killers are venting their anger on whoever reveals the truth about them to the world, yet they freely move about spreading whatever they wish - from misleading ideas to biased allegations - without censorship.

Al-Bayan - UAE


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

To be precise, this survey was not surprising in the light of the aggressive policies which Israel has practised for years, especially since Ariel Sharon came to power... The result of this survey should ring a alarm bell for Israelis. Those voices in Israel claiming that others are anti-Semitic should review Israel&#39;s aggressive policies instead.

Al-Ahram - Egypt


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

The significance of the poll is that it reflects a predominant European view that is free in its choices... It promises a major qualitative transformation. It is up to us to benefit from it by engaging in dialogue and cooperation with those other Europeans who miss the facts.

Al-Thawrah - Syria (commentary by Khalid al-Shahab)


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

This time round the US-Zionists are annoyed about the dissemination of the European public opinion survey which affirms that the Zionist entity is the greatest danger to world peace, and that the Americans, with their wars all over the place, are no model of security and are a threat to humanity.

Al-Vefagh - Iran (in Arabic)


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

The European public has not been fooled by Israel&#39;s powerful propaganda machine... Israel&#39;s outrage at the results of the poll was as hypocritical as it was futile. Europeans have rated the Jewish state below many "rogue states"... not because they are anti-Semitic, but because they have realized that Israel has been oppressing and repressing in violence and blood the legitimate aspirations of a nation fighting for its right to self-determination and independence.

Jordan Times


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

This arrow is one of many - if it is all right for Israeli pilots, journalists, and politicians to criticise the essence of the occupation and its policy, then why is it forbidden for others? Israel is an outcast state because it is the last occupying country in the world.

Al-Ayyam - Palestinian


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Europe, two generations after World War II and the Jewish Holocaust, is not sympathetic to Israel. The old image of a people&#39;s state recovering from a terrible disaster and defending itself against greater forces has given way to the image of an oppressive occupying power that fights to hold onto land that doesn&#39;t belong to it. Instead of complaining about ignorance and anti-Semitism, Israel should be improving both its policies and the way they are reflected in public opinion.

Ha&#39;aretz - Israel


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

It seems that whoever ordered the poll sought a certificate of approval for a very certain type of European foreign policy. But the reply Brussels received was... a boomerang in the face of those who financed it. The poll will be remembered as another landmark in the abyss towards which Israel-Europe relations are galloping, and another justification for keeping the continent from the political process it so eagerly wants to take part in.

Ma&#39;ariv - Israel


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Ironically, the same poll found that 81 per cent of Europeans thought the EU should become more involved in Middle East peacemaking efforts... Obviously, such polls confirm every Israeli instinct about the need to keep Europeans as far away from any position of diplomatic influence as possible. Memo to Europe: demonizing a democracy under attack is no way to win friends and influence people.

Jerusalem Post - Israel

[MediaSlayer]

Here is the definition of the word "controlled" according to www.dictionary.com

---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

5 entries found for controlled.
con·trol ( P ) Pronunciation Key (kn-trl)
tr.v. con·trolled, con·trol·ling, con·trols
1. To exercise authoritative or dominating influence over; direct. See Synonyms at conduct.
2. To adjust to a requirement; regulate: controlled trading on the stock market; controls the flow of water.
3. To hold in restraint; check: struggled to control my temper.
4. To reduce or prevent the spread of: control insects; controlled the fire by dousing it with water.

5.
a. To verify or regulate (a scientific experiment) by conducting a parallel experiment or by comparing with another standard.
b. To verify (an account, for example) by using a duplicate register for comparison.

n.
1. Authority or ability to manage or direct: lost control of the skidding car; the leaders in control of the country.

2.
a. One that controls; a controlling agent, device, or organization.
b. An instrument or set of instruments used to operate, regulate, or guide a machine or vehicle. Often used in the plural.
3. A restraining device, measure, or limit; a curb: a control on prices; price controls.

4.
a. A standard of comparison for checking or verifying the results of an experiment.
b. An individual or group used as a standard of comparison in a control experiment.
5. An intelligence agent who supervises or instructs another agent.
6. A spirit presumed to speak or act through a medium.


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
[Middle English controllen, from Anglo-Norman contreroller, from Medieval Latin contrrotulre, to check by duplicate register, from contrrotulus, duplicate register : Latin contr-, contra- + Latin rotulus, roll, diminutive of rota, wheel; see ret- in Indo-European Roots.]

------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
The reason I posted this is because I think we might be arguing about diction, not principles. When people say "Jews control the media" that makes me think of the first definition listed above. I don&#39;t think this is a black and white issue. I don&#39;t believe any race or group has 100% control of the media. Do I think Jews have influence over it? Yes. How much influence? <50%, which is not a majority, therefore I don&#39;t think they "control" the media.

[Rat Faced]

You need substantialy less than 50% to have a controlling interest in any company that is on the Stock Market.

In addition, any commercial enterprise will not last long if they piss off the advertisers...


I agree its not black and white.... but its even more suptle than the definition of "Controlling"...... and im not into the Jewish conspiracy theory :P

[MediaSlayer]

agreed

[Billy_Dean]

Where to start ...

Country: # A region, territory, or large tract of land distinguishable by features of topography, biology, or culture:

State: # Of or relating to a body politic or to an internally autonomous territorial or political unit constituting a federation under one government:

Palestine is a country, peopled by Palestinians.


Let me be more clear. I started the thread to discuss the fact that an EU representative confirmed that Palastine is not a country. This was interesting to me, because many people talk about Israelis living on "stolen land" and about "Palastine". Then that story broke, confirming that Palastine is not a country. It would seem then, all the talk about "illegal occupation" would stop. Of course that representative&#39;s remarks could be taken several different ways, but nonetheless.
One person&#39;s flippant remark is not confirmation.

Palestine was, until WW1, a part of the Ottoman empire. In 1947 Britain, who held the mandate over Palestine following the defeat of Turkey in WW1, informed the UN that it was giving up it&#39;s mandate and moving out of Palestine, and handing power to Jewish and Arab majorities.

1948 -- March 10: British House of Commons votes on ending the mandate on May 15. The Haganah drafts "Plan Dalet" (Dalet is Hebrew for D) for military operations in Palestine.
- March 18: American president, Truman, receives Chaim Weizman and promises to support the declaration of the Jewish State on May 15.
- March 19 - 20: USA representative in the Security Council asks it to suspend the partition plan and calls for a General Assembly session to discuss a trusteeship on Palestine. Arabs accepted a limited one with a truce conditioned by Jewish acceptance. The Jewish Agency rejected.
- March 25: Truman calls for an immediate truce, announces willingness to participate in temporary trusteeship
- March 30 - May 15: 2nd coastal cleansing operation by the Haganah against Palestinians between Haifa and Yafa.
- April 1: First arms shipment to Jewish organizations lands in Haifa, more in air cargo. Security Council calls for a General Assembly session according to US suggestion.
- April 4: The Haganah starts executing "Plan Dalet (D)".
- April 4 - 15: Battle of Mishmar Ha &#39;Emeq. Haganah wins and Palmach occupies villages in the plains of marj bin Aamer
- April 6 - 15: Operation Nachshon (first part of Dalet Plan). Villages and towns on the Jerusalem - Tel Aviv road fell to Haganah.
- April 8: Abdur Qadir Husseini dies in counter offensive to restore al-Qastal (near Jerusalem)
- April 9: Deir Yassin massacre. Irgon and Stern terrorists kill 250 civilians in this village in Jerusalem district
- April 12: General Zionist Council decides to establish an independent state in Palestine on May 16.
- April 20: Operation Hariel of Plan Dalet. Palestinian villages on Jerusalem road targeted and destroyed. Continues till May 15.
- April 15 - May 25: Operation Yiftah captures Safad and uses psychological war to expel Palestinians. Operation Sweeper drives bedouins to Jordan River.
- April 16 - 17: Golani and Palmach units occupy Tabariyya (Tiberias) after British forces leave. Palestinian residents leave.
- April 17: Security Council calls for a military and political truce.

By this time, the jewish plan to take over the whole of Palestine was in full swing.

This all took place in Palestine, the UN declarations, British mandates etc. were all in regards to Palestine, not a swathe of unoccupied desert, but a country and a people, Palestinians. UN resolutions since, and to this day, recognise the right of Palestinians to self determination, and to the right of the state of Palestine to exist.


If the Israelis are notorious human rights violators wouldn&#39;t some of those violations involve people on this forum? I have met many Israelis and didn&#39;t notice anything out of the ordinary about them. If they are murderers, wouldn&#39;t they murder outside their homeland as well? Israelis living in Europe, for example. Are they killing Europeans left and right?
Subtitute Germans for Israelis and you have a denial of Nazi culpability in WW2.

For your information, I don&#39;t watch TV, and I am not, unlike you, brainwashed. I have also been to Israel, I doubt you have.


Anyway, after that Billy Dean said this ..

Well I should think it&#39;s quite obvious&#33; The actual result was 80% thought it was Israel, but the fucking jewish media rigged the result&#33;
For a people well known for their comedians, you sure are slow to spot a joke&#33;






:)

[MediaSlayer]

Originally posted by Billy_Dean@6 November 2003 - 05:50
One person&#39;s flippant remark is not confirmation.


Yeah, I know it pains you that they said it, but that&#39;s life.

[Billy_Dean]

Originally posted by MediaSlayer+6 November 2003 - 16:07--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td>QUOTE (MediaSlayer @ 6 November 2003 - 16:07)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'> <!--QuoteBegin-Billy_Dean@6 November 2003 - 05:50
One person&#39;s flippant remark is not confirmation.


Yeah, I know it pains you that they said it, but that&#39;s life. [/b][/quote]
It doesn&#39;t pain me at all. It&#39;s just not true, Palestine is a country, soon to be a state. One person saying something does not make it a fact.

Why don&#39;t you comment about my other points, or is that too painful for you?


:)

[MediaSlayer]

Originally posted by Billy_Dean@6 November 2003 - 06:22

Why don&#39;t you comment about my other points, or is that too painful for you?


:)
No problem.

Comments:
If you say that Palastine is a country, that&#39;s ok with me. Believe me when I say I don&#39;t lose much sleep over whether it "really is" a country or not. I started the thread because of the story about the EU, which I found interesting. I realize that the EU had to say that in order to hide what they were doing. In other words, I don&#39;t expect to convince anybody either way. Some people believe palastine is a country. Some don&#39;t.

As for the main part of your post, I don&#39;t doubt any of that happened. I&#39;m sure you are leaving out little facts here and there, but on the whole that is what I have read on my own. That mostly fits with the history of the middle east for the last half century. There is nothing to argue, really.

F.Y.I. here is my thoughts on the occupation of land in general:

If you or your nation owns land, its not permenant because one day you will die. Nations don&#39;t die all at once, so they can "keep" land but true ownership never actually happens because a stronger nation can always force them out. Time after time, generation after generation, different groups have displaced other groups. Its unavoidable. The only way it would slow down or stop is a drastic drop in the population. The land you are standing on was once "owned" by another group. Will you give back that land? I would be quite shocked to see Australia give back the state of Victoria to the native people. I don&#39;t expect it. We must do our best to get along with each other. You can cut and paste all the propaganda you want, it&#39;s no replacement for sympathy and understanding. I think the root problem is the nature of humans, not ownership of land.

[Billy_Dean]

So tell us your opinion of the "occupied territories" issue then.

Do the Palestinians deserve a state?

Does Israel have any obligation to abide by UN resolutions?

Should Israelis be allowed to continue taking land that is owned by other people?

Should the settlements be allowed to stay?

Give us some opinions of your own regarding these issues.


:)