This Happened Yesterday...

[clocker]

I have been visiting my favorite junkyard for years- sometimes several times a week- and noticed a great deal of reorganizing and clearing lately, so yesterday I finally asked what was going on.

The counter guy said that the city was repairing/upgrading a 48" sewer line that ran beneath their property and the construction necessitated opening up space for the work.

I said that must be a real inconvenience and he laughed and said that they had negotiated a deal and were being paid a fee for every car they had to move and were taking advantage of the situation to reorganize the entire lot.

He finished by saying "This is your Obamie (sic) socialist money at work".

I said nothing, paid and left.

Thinking about it as I drove home, several things struck me...

His company was actually making out quite well, being paid for their inconvenience and probably profiting in the process.

Some contractor- and by extension, their employees- was profiting from the contract to repair the sewer line.

The city was upgrading the infrastructure.
The work being performed is part of a local bond issue, passed in 2008, which ultimately aims to make better use of the now dormant riverside area (currently occupied by junkyards and low rent industrial parks).

The whole deal seems like a win/win scenario for all concerned but somehow, at least in this guy's mind, it's become linked to Obama and "socialism" and is therefore, "BAD".

Seemed like a perfect example of what's wrong with the American electorate...misplaced/misinformed anger directed at the wrong person/people/party and in this case, anger over a situation which actually directly benefits the people involved.

Because I want to continue dealing with this company I said nothing, but it was truly a WTF? moment that struck me as very odd.

[megabyteme]

Great example of the pure cynicism that is permeating both sides right now. I believe this is largely due to people getting their "talking points" (and sadly, "educations") from media (talk radio and network news).

*This post is intended to be bi-partisan- is it possible for us to have a thread that looks at a greater problem than left v. right?

Forget forms of government and "sides", this mindset is everywhere, and needs to be changed if we want anything different. This one is on US.

[devilsadvocate]

Seems about right.

[j2k4]

Massive injection of tax-payer cash makes project "shovel-ready".

After this, no infrastructure work will ever even be contemplated without the same range of extraneous and peripheral finance in place, so everything just got alot more expensive.

That's good?

One wonders how emergency repairs would/could be handled.



Sorry - that's how I see it.

[clocker]

Massive injection of tax-payer cash makes project "shovel-ready".

After this, no infrastructure work will ever even be contemplated without the same range of extraneous and peripheral finance in place, so everything just got alot more expensive.

That's good?

One wonders how emergency repairs would/could be handled.



Sorry - that's how I see it.
How did a local bond issue turn into "massive injection of tax-payer cash"?

[j2k4]

Massive injection of tax-payer cash makes project "shovel-ready".

After this, no infrastructure work will ever even be contemplated without the same range of extraneous and peripheral finance in place, so everything just got alot more expensive.

That's good?

One wonders how emergency repairs would/could be handled.



Sorry - that's how I see it.
How did a local bond issue turn into "massive injection of tax-payer cash"?

It is taxpayer money; it doesn't matter how it was raised.

Passed in 2008, "ultimately intended" to make better use of the Riverside area?

I think that means it was raised on a, 'let's float a bond, we want to make this more desirable for commercial purposes; we'll worry about the spending specifics once we have the money'.

Put it this way:

The bond passed in '08 - did your junkyard boys already have a plan for this, or did the municipality just get the cash and start waving it around to attract customers.

Maybe they did have a plan - it would be helpful to know, but if they were making smart-ass remarks about Obama-money, one wonders.

Have you more relevant details?

[clocker]

I fail to see any relevance in your current tack.
My point was that whatever this project is, Obama had absolutely nothing to do with it.
This was a local bond issue, voted on by local residents and AFAIK, there is zero Federal money directly involved.

Furthermore, I don't see how repairing/upgrading a 48" sewer line could be a bad thing...would they rather it rupture and leak crap (literally!, no less) all over the place?
I was rather amazed the city was compensating the junkyard for the inconvenience, seemed likely that "eminent domain" or a legal variation thereof, would prevail.

The junkyards/metal recycler (there are still several junkyards in this area and they all service a giant crusher/recycling yard) and the various local planning boards have been at loggerheads for years.
The river location is almost incidental- the Platte is more of a creek than a river...it'll never be the Seine or the Thames...the real prize is property abutting Sante Fe Dr., a major thoroughfare.
Just a half mile upriver (OK, upcreek) a similar industrial area was cleared out and a Sam's Club/Home Depot mall thing grew up.

Think what you will about the aesthetic trade-off involved, the city of Sheridan is loving the new tax income and Littleton wants in on the action.

Again, just to be clear...Obama had nothing to do with any of this.

This is NOT Socialism- it's simply the inevitable friction between a local government and a local industry, a scenario played out identically since Andy was abusing Opie (Obama had no part in that either).

I don't think anyone involved isn't aware that ultimately the junkyards will move (or most likely, go out of business altogether) and what I'm seeing are the mid-game moves of a multi-year chess match with the ecological aspect being the elephant in the room.
As daunting a task as clearing the yards away would be, it pales in comparison to the environmental cleanup that will follow.
Those junkyards have been there for over 50 years (I visited them as a kid) and it's hard to imagine the quantities of motor oil, refrigerants, brake fluid, gasoline, etc. that have soaked into the soil.
Not to mention the tons and tons of bolts, nuts, scrap bits that have slowly sunk in.
So the real question is: Does the city want the property bad enough to mitigate the cleanup responsibility of the junkyard?

Finally...no Obama, no socialism.

[devilsadvocate]

Those junkyards have been there for over 50 years (I visited them as a kid) and it's hard to imagine the quantities of motor oil, refrigerants, brake fluid, gasoline, etc. that have soaked into the soil.

Finally...no Obama, no socialism. But there is an oil refinery in Kenya , the Bidco Oil Refinery. Some of that oil could have been refined there and as we all know, because we heard it so it must true, Obama was born in kenya.

Kevin Bacon.

[clocker]

OK, I'm convinced.

Damn you and your logic!

[j2k4]

I fail to see any relevance in your current tack.
My point was that whatever this project is, Obama had absolutely nothing to do with it.
This was a local bond issue, voted on by local residents and AFAIK, there is zero Federal money directly involved.

Furthermore, I don't see how repairing/upgrading a 48" sewer line could be a bad thing...would they rather it rupture and leak crap (literally!, no less) all over the place?
I was rather amazed the city was compensating the junkyard for the inconvenience, seemed likely that "eminent domain" or a legal variation thereof, would prevail.

The junkyards/metal recycler (there are still several junkyards in this area and they all service a giant crusher/recycling yard) and the various local planning boards have been at loggerheads for years.
The river location is almost incidental- the Platte is more of a creek than a river...it'll never be the Seine or the Thames...the real prize is property abutting Sante Fe Dr., a major thoroughfare.
Just a half mile upriver (OK, upcreek) a similar industrial area was cleared out and a Sam's Club/Home Depot mall thing grew up.

Think what you will about the aesthetic trade-off involved, the city of Sheridan is loving the new tax income and Littleton wants in on the action.

Again, just to be clear...Obama had nothing to do with any of this.

This is NOT Socialism- it's simply the inevitable friction between a local government and a local industry, a scenario played out identically since Andy was abusing Opie (Obama had no part in that either).

I don't think anyone involved isn't aware that ultimately the junkyards will move (or most likely, go out of business altogether) and what I'm seeing are the mid-game moves of a multi-year chess match with the ecological aspect being the elephant in the room.
As daunting a task as clearing the yards away would be, it pales in comparison to the environmental cleanup that will follow.
Those junkyards have been there for over 50 years (I visited them as a kid) and it's hard to imagine the quantities of motor oil, refrigerants, brake fluid, gasoline, etc. that have soaked into the soil.
Not to mention the tons and tons of bolts, nuts, scrap bits that have slowly sunk in.
So the real question is: Does the city want the property bad enough to mitigate the cleanup responsibility of the junkyard?

Finally...no Obama, no socialism.

I thought your question was more along the lines of 'why is this guy dinging Obama?'

He's probably pretty pleased with himself atm.

Personally, I would be inclined (in the municipal role) to press it's 'eminent domain' abilities to make things a bit less expensive.

I would make every attempt to accommodate your junkyard friend while pinching every penny until it bled.

I sure as fuck wouldn't be paying him 'by the car' to move his shit, when he spends enough time moving it around, anyway.

[clocker]

I thought your question was more along the lines of 'why is this guy dinging Obama?'

He's probably pretty pleased with himself atm.


I know why he's "dinging" Obama, he's an ignorant peckerwood who will blame everything he doesn't like on Obama, relevance be damned.
And, like most idiots, I'm sure he's quite pleased in his ignorance.

Republicans must be unbearably happy all the time, now that Obama is around to be the whipping boy.

[j2k4]

I thought your question was more along the lines of 'why is this guy dinging Obama?'

He's probably pretty pleased with himself atm.


I know why he's "dinging" Obama, he's an ignorant peckerwood who will blame everything he doesn't like on Obama, relevance be damned.
And, like most idiots, I'm sure he's quite pleased in his ignorance.

Republicans must be unbearably happy all the time, now that Obama is around to be the whipping boy.

Other shoes, other feet, my friend.

I could type stale adages until my fingers are blue in the face.

[clocker]

I could type stale adages until my fingers are blue in the face.
I thought you already had.

[999969999]

I thought your question was more along the lines of 'why is this guy dinging Obama?'

He's probably pretty pleased with himself atm.


I know why he's "dinging" Obama, he's an ignorant peckerwood who will blame everything he doesn't like on Obama, relevance be damned.
And, like most idiots, I'm sure he's quite pleased in his ignorance.

Republicans must be unbearably happy all the time, now that Obama is around to be the whipping boy.

Okay, so he made a mistake claiming that it was Obama's fault in this case. But can you see why he would jump to such a conclusion? Obama seems to be trying to get the economy going again by doing road construction, which is a stupid idea. It doesn't bring money into our economy, it just circulates taxpayer money in a closed system. And from what I could see on my road trip to Oregon, there are a lot of roads being torn up which were fine and did not need any repairs. It's just busy work. A better use of the taxpayer money would have been to just have a tax holiday for one year, so everyone would have 100% of their income for take home pay. Can you imagine how much that would have done to the economy?

[clocker]

Okay, so he made a mistake claiming that it was Obama's fault in this case. But can you see why he would jump to such a conclusion?
Of course, Fox has conditioned him to blame Obama for everything he doesn't like.
Obama seems to be trying to get the economy going again by doing road construction, which is a stupid idea.
Given our dilapidated and inadequate infrastructure, I must disagree.
It doesn't bring money into our economy, it just circulates taxpayer money in a closed system.
It's not a "closed system" because you have product (i.e., highways/bridges/dams, whathaveyou...) at the end that didn't exist before.
A better use of the taxpayer money would have been to just have a tax holiday for one year, so everyone would have 100% of their income for take home pay. Can you imagine how much that would have done to the economy?
I can imagine what effect that plan would have on the millions of unemployed...absolutely zero.
I can also imagine what effect a complete cessation of tax revenue would have on cities nationwide already struggling with budget shortfalls...disaster.

You need to think things through slightly more than Fox prefers.