Wikileaks

[iLOVENZB]

:blink:

[Cabalo]

I just would like to see all those journalists, all so tied up to their freedom of speech and information, defending him now.

[clocker]

Since "journalists" abdicated their positions as truth seekers after 9/11, it was inevitable that someone would step up to the plate.
You certainly don't have to admire Assange as a person but what Wikileaks is doing is necessary and in this increasingly totalitarian world, noble.

[sandman_1]

You know I don't mind people exposing corruption in our government but how are these latest leaks anything worth revealing? I mean most of it is foreign policy mumbo-jumbo that anyone knew anyway who has common sense. Waste of time and effort if you ask me. I would rather see tons of evidence showing these politicians are in bed with these corporations exposing them in the public eye.

[999969999]

since "journalists" abdicated their positions as truth seekers after 9/11, it was inevitable that someone would step up to the plate.
You certainly don't have to admire assange as a person but what wikileaks is doing is necessary and in this increasingly totalitarian world, noble.

wtf?

[clocker]

What part of that confuses you?

[999969999]

What part of that confuses you?

Are you one of those people who think 9-11 was some government conspiracy?

[clocker]

Reading comprehension fail.

To put it simply, post 9/11 no one- repeat, NO ONE, in the media ever questioned the total pack of lies fed by the Bush administration regarding the reasoning for invading Iraq.
It was all about "patriotism" and "supporting our troops" and stupid ribbons on your bumper.

[MagicNakor]

I can't recall observing such a classic case of shooting the messenger and drumming up charges.

:shuriken:

[clocker]

Yeah, it's not at all improbable that Assange will "mysteriously" die within a year.

[HeavyMetalParkingLot]

Assange has stated the wikileaks will probably end up with blood on its hands due to some of what is released...not real "noble" to serve up someone else's life.

[devilsadvocate]

:blink:I was just reading an article about Wikileak supporters hacking sites of people that say unfavorable things about wikileaks. Then I got a timeout screen when I clicked on this thread

[clocker]

Assange has stated the wikileaks will probably end up with blood on its hands due to some of what is released...not real "noble" to serve up someone else's life.
So, it's far more ethical to preserve the secrecy that allows the US (and it's allies) to continue drone bombing civilians in Pakistan, making deals with corrupt Saudi leaders in exchange for oil (on their terms, of course) and supporting the inept/unpopular government of Afghanistan?

Why is it that governments (and their real corporate leaders) are allowed to operate on a completely separate moral plane than individuals?
Why have banks/Wall Street been allowed to completely gut the world's financial structure and suffer no penalty?
Why do either of the above get to don a cloak of secrecy and claim "national security" as the excuse, when the same convenient self-serving defense would have zero traction for you as an individual?

Why is the outcry over what Wikileaks did more clamorous than the outrage at what was exposed?

Is the "free press" only free when they service the goals of government?

[999969999]

Is the "free press" only free when they service the goals of government?

Is the free press really free when they are so blatantly one sided on anything involving the Obama administration? I swear it seems like Chris Matthews wants to have Obama's baby.

[clocker]

Just because you keep harping on that tired canard doesn't make it so.
Have you any response pertinent to this discussion or will you continue to parrot Fox?

[999969999]

Just because you keep harping on that tired canard doesn't make it so.
Have you any response pertinent to this discussion or will you continue to parrot Fox?

Have you ever watched Chris Matthews?

[clocker]

Still irrelevant.

[999969999]

Still irrelevant.

Why?

[clocker]

Um, because we're discussing Wikileaks.

[iLOVENZB]

I would like a question answered; What defines a journalist?

How can 'professional' American journalist who work for American publishers not be threatened with execution for treason while a internet activist, who isn't even a U.S. citizen be?

Not that it matters because as far as I am aware Assange is being trialed for rape allegations not his involvement as a "terrorist organization". It's just a coincidence the rape allegations came shortly after sensitive cables were leaked.

Noob question: Why are they called cables and not something like documents?

[Burnsy]

Reading comprehension fail.

To put it simply, post 9/11 no one- repeat, NO ONE, in the media ever questioned the total pack of lies fed by the Bush administration regarding the reasoning for invading Iraq.
It was all about "patriotism" and "supporting our troops" and stupid ribbons on your bumper.

No-one in the British Army believed that bullshit either... we were just happy to go and do something... we didn't care where. Saddam was a cunt who deserved a kicking and got it... and the yanks kept banging on about whatever it was, trying to make the world believe that Iraq were in some way responsible for harbouring Al Qieada (or however the fuck you spell it) despite Bin Laden and Saddam, hating each other... in some ways the USA are admirable in the way they support whatever they are fed, no matter what... but in other ways... they come across as ignorant fuckwits, who believe whatever they are fed...

Yank troops... all the gear but no idea... Brit troops... saved a lot of things happening that shouldn't have happened, and all because this bravado overtook their sense of right and wrong... is it really a shootable offence for a 15 yr old lad to throw stones at a UK/USA checkpoint because he has nothing to drink? According to a NY Yankees reservist it was justifiable??!! :lol:


Yeah, it's not at all improbable that Assange will "mysteriously" die within a year.

More than likely and disgustingly so...


Assange has stated the wikileaks will probably end up with blood on its hands due to some of what is released...not real "noble" to serve up someone else's life.

So it's bullshit, is it, that 'spies' who go into the job to fuck over others, knowing full well they are supported by their respective governments suddenly end up exposed? It's the nature if the job, and if they don't have a decent 'escape' then, tbh, they were full of shite anyway...



Assange has stated the wikileaks will probably end up with blood on its hands due to some of what is released...not real "noble" to serve up someone else's life.
So, it's far more ethical to preserve the secrecy that allows the US (and it's allies) to continue drone bombing civilians in Pakistan, making deals with corrupt Saudi leaders in exchange for oil (on their terms, of course) and supporting the inept/unpopular government of Afghanistan?

Why is it that governments (and their real corporate leaders) are allowed to operate on a completely separate moral plane than individuals?
Why have banks/Wall Street been allowed to completely gut the world's financial structure and suffer no penalty?
Why do either of the above get to don a cloak of secrecy and claim "national security" as the excuse, when the same convenient self-serving defense would have zero traction for you as an individual?

Why is the outcry over what Wikileaks did more clamorous than the outrage at what was exposed?

Is the "free press" only free when they service the goals of government?

Totally agree with that...

[clocker]

I would like a question answered; What defines a journalist?

How can 'professional' American journalist who work for American publishers not be threatened with execution for treason while a internet activist, who isn't even a U.S. citizen be?

Not that it matters because as far as I am aware Assange is being trialed for rape allegations not his involvement as a "terrorist organization". It's just a coincidence the rape allegations came shortly after sensitive cables were leaked.


There is much talk in the US of trying to extradite Assange to America and trying him for espionage.
In the meantime there will probably be attempts to bring the Espionage Act of 1917 to bear on anyone who supports or expands on Wikileaks efforts.
Consumate slimeball Sen. Joe Lieberman has already called on the US Attorney General to do exactly this.

Fox News, already well practised in the art of confusing dissent with treason, has Bill O'Reilly leading their campaign to muzzle the American people and airwaves...pretty much exactly like Joseph Goebbels did in Nazi Germany.
A free society cannot exist without a free press and the ability to question/expose the government.

I can't really see how this works out anymore.
It used to be relatively easy to stifle the flow of information but the internet has really changed the landscape and it's no longer possible to silence a few outlets and control the flow of data, so without a really repressive and egregiously obvious crackdown, I'm not sure what can be done to stop the "damage".

[megabyteme]

Agreed. Very well put, clocker. Wikilinks is doing what journalist are supposed to do- expose corruption, give the masses something other than state-fed propaganda to discuss AND express their outrage against. All this is done to keep government reigned in.

Free speech/free press are not about warm, cuddly thoughts and well-wishes. Nobody needs to be protected for saying such pleasantries. It is the individual who points out corruption, or who offends, who needs protection to say such things.

[HeavyMetalParkingLot]

So, megabyteme, you are saying that freedom of speech trumps a persons life?

People are always saying do not judge Muslims by the actions of a few extremists. Ok, I can understand that. So when the nonextremists turn in these extremists to help stop them, they should have their names put out there for the extremists to be able to look up and retaliate against them and their families?

I am sorry, but I can not buy that.

P.S. Why is there absolutely nothing in the leaks that mentions the Israel/Lebanon conflicts? I find it hard to believe that the U.S. had nothing what so ever to communicate about that. Surely someone who feels information should be free wouldn't leave out pertinent information like that.

OT: whats with the noneditable smilie on the top of this post?

[clocker]

P.S. Why is there absolutely nothing in the leaks that mentions the Israel/Lebanon conflicts? I find it hard to believe that the U.S. had nothing what so ever to communicate about that. Surely someone who feels information should be free wouldn't leave out pertinent information like that.


Only about 1% of the material has been released so far, so wait and see.

[MagicNakor]

Noob question: Why are they called cables and not something like documents?

When communications ran on telegram, special (secret) cables were laid for diplomats to use for sensitive messages. If it was from the "diplomatic cable" it was supposed to be privileged information.


A free society cannot exist without a free press and the ability to question/expose the government.

Since this is one of the founding principles of your country and enshrined in the Constitution, the reactions are all the more disturbing. The cognitive dissonance down there must be extreme; however, this does explain many popular "media personalities" and politicians.


Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof; or abridging the freedom of speech, or of the press; or the right of the people peaceably to assemble, and to petition the government for a redress of grievances.


P.S. Why is there absolutely nothing in the leaks that mentions the Israel/Lebanon conflicts? I find it hard to believe that the U.S. had nothing what so ever to communicate about that. Surely someone who feels information should be free wouldn't leave out pertinent information like that.

It's clear through his interviews that Assange has a motive outside freedom of information. His motivation (an end to involvement in Middle Eastern wars) and its impact on any Wikileaks documents is a separate (albeit related) topic though-- the events documented would have occurred regardless, the only difference is that they are now public.

Just a quick search reveals at least one cable regarding Lebanon/Israel/USA (sent from Embassy Beirut).

VZCZCXRO1782
OO RUEHBC RUEHDE RUEHKUK RUEHROV
DE RUEHLB #0372/01 0711608
ZNY SSSSS ZZH
O 111608Z MAR 08
FM AMEMBASSY BEIRUT
TO RUEHC/SECSTATE WASHDC IMMEDIATE 1273
INFO RUEHEE/ARAB LEAGUE COLLECTIVE PRIORITY
RUEHROV/AMEMBASSY VATICAN PRIORITY 1112
RUEKJCS/SECDEF WASHDC PRIORITY
RHMFISS/HQ USEUCOM VAIHINGEN GE PRIORITY
RUCNDT/USMISSION USUN NEW YORK PRIORITY 2041
RUEHNO/USMISSION USNATO PRIORITY 2308
RHEHNSC/NSC WASHDC PRIORITY
RHMFISS/CDR USCENTCOM MACDILL AFB FL PRIORITY
Content
S E C R E T SECTION 01 OF 04 BEIRUT 000372

SIPDIS

NOFORN
SIPDIS

DEPT PASS TO EU MEMBER STATES COLLECTIVE
NSC FOR ABRAMS/SINGH/YERGER

E.O. 12958: DECL: 03/10/2018
TAGS: PGOV, PREL, PTER, PARM, PINR, SY, IS, LE
SUBJECT: LEBANON: MINDEF WORRIED THAT HIZBALLAH WAR WITH
ISRAEL IMMINENT

REF: A. BEIRUT 355
B. IIR 6 857 0185 08
C. IIR 6 857 0189 08
D. BEIRUT 324

BEIRUT 00000372 001.2 OF 004

Classified By: Charge D'Affaires a.i. Michele J. Sison
for reasons 1.4 (b) and (d).

SUMMARY
-------

1. (S) In a March 10 meeting with Charge, MinDef Murr
expressed his growing concern that a Hizballah war with
Israel is imminent. His assessment is based upon recent
Hizballah preparations, reported movement of families, and
the precipitous increase in Israeli overflights of Lebanon.
Murr does not think that Hizballah can win another war with
Israel and will be defeated. Describing Hizballah as
"scared," Murr opined that they are scared because they know
that Israel might be about to attack, or, more probably, they
fear the retribution Israel will heap upon them when
Hizballah takes revenge for the killing of terrorist Imad
Mughniya. Murr offered some ideas aimed at avoiding turning
the Christian population against Israel when the next war
with Hizballah occurs. Murr also outlined his orders to the
Lebanese Army when/if Israel invades to counter Hizballah.
End summary.

2. (S) Charge, Defense Attache and ODC Chief met with Deputy
Prime Minister and Minister of Defense Elias Murr on March 10
at his home in Rabieh. The atmosphere of the meeting was
cordial and friendly.

HIZBALLAH MEMBERS RENTING SUMMER HOMES;
NOT ALL REPORTED ACTIVITY
DIRECTLY RELATED TO WAR PLANNING
---------------------------------------

3. (S) Contacts such as Amine Gemayel (ref A) and Walid
Jumblatt have been telling us recently that the Shia, and in
particular senior Hizballah members, have been acquiring land
or renting homes in the Christian areas of Jezzine, Jebel
Rihan, Junieh, Zahle as well as in Druze areas. This is
causing alarm among the Christian populations in these
locations and is being taken as a sign by some that Hizballah
is planning for war.

4. (S) MinDef Murr told us that he has looked into these
rumors and, indeed, it was impossible to find a rental
property in these areas. Regarding the activity in Jezzine,
Murr assured us that this was nothing more than investing in
Lebanon by Lebanese Shia expats based in West Africa. As for
the buying of Christian properties, Murr reported that the
Christians want to sell their property so they can leave
Lebanon. In any case, Murr did not see a military linkage
between the sale of homes in Jezzine and Hizballah planning.

5. (S) As for the areas further north in Lebanon such as
Keserwan and the Metn, Murr confirmed that Shia are renting
in high numbers there because they feel that Israel is going
to attack soon. Such action could take place as early as
April 2008, he warned. (Comment: Shia took refuge
throughout Christian areas in south Lebanon during the July
2006 war, with as many as 300-400 people crowded into a
single church for weeks on end. End Comment.) Murr also told
us that Hassan Nasrallah's cousin has moved his family out of
the southern suburbs, the Dahiyya, and rented a chalet in the
resort town of Farayya for a year. According to Murr, this
means that Nasrallah is on high alert.

6. (S) In addition to renting homes in these areas, Hizballah
is making many concessions to the Christians who live in
these areas. In a meeting three weeks ago between top
Hizballah officials such as Wafiq Safa and March 14 members
at MoD Headquarters in Yarze, Hizballah agreed to all of the
Christians demands. The two most notable concessions were
that Hizballah will not place any signage with Nabih Berri or
Hassan Nasrallah's image in these locations and that
Hizballah will not have a visible presence in these areas.

BEIRUT 00000372 002.2 OF 004

(Comment: This is significant. During the July 2006 war,
Hizballah members moved into Christian areas and started
converting them to Hizballah strongholds. On one occasion,
Hizballah attempted to place a Nasrallah banner on the facade
of a local church. When the inhabitants protested, the were
intimidated into acquiescing. The banner was later hung
inside the church. End Comment.) Murr thinks that Hizballah
agreed to these concessions because it wants to avoid
internal problems at all costs while it prepares for its
external fight with Israel. During this same meeting, March
14 members learned that Hizballah has rockets that can fly
over 200 kilometers.

HIZBALLAH NOT CONVINCED THEY CAN WIN
THEY WILL LOSE IF THEY TRY WAR WITH ISRAEL
------------------------------------------

7. (S) Murr told us that Hizballah is not "internally
convinced" that it can win this time. It was internally
convinced that it could win in 2006. Murr predicted that
Hizballah's war with Israel will not be like 2006 and that
the fight in the Beka'a Valley will be very different.
Saying that Israel paid the price by fighting in the villages
in 2006, Murr harbors no illusion that they will not get
bogged down in the village a second time. Instead, Murr
thinks they will bypass strongholds in villages and pursue
the main forces, the rockets.

8. (S) "I am sure Hizballah is scared and they are preparing
for a severe lesson this time," Murr said. Hizballah must
respond to the Mughniya assassination, but they know it will
bring retribution. Murr thinks that an attack in West Africa
or South America would be easier for Hizballah but he thinks
Nasrallah would prefer to attack inside of Israel if
possible. Hizballah will attempt to bring in Syria to absorb
some of the Israeli response to their attack, he added.

SYRIA'S ASSAD SEES NO SIGNALS OF WAR
THINKS HIS SUMMIT WILL SUCCEED
------------------------------------

9. (S) Murr related that Saudi journalist Ghassan Charbel of
the Al-Hayat newspaper recently returned to Beirut from
Damascus where he met with Bashar Al-Assad. Charbel told
Murr that Bashar Assad told him "I have no Israeli signal of
a strike or a war even if Hizballah thinks this way."

10. (S) Assad feels that his Arab Summit will happen and that
he can continue to pursue his agenda in Lebanon, Charbel
informed Murr. Specifically, he intends to push for the
10-10-10 Cabinet formula while waiting for the term of the
Bush Administration to expire. He does not see anything at
all happening this year in Lebanon, Charbel had said. Murr
seemed to think otherwise, reporting that Syria has recalled
250,000 migrant agricultural workers from Lebanon who also
serve in the Syrian military reserves.

UNSCR 1701 AREAS OF LEBANON ARE PROTECTED
HIZBALLAH WILL NOT FIGHT ON THIS TERRAIN
-----------------------------------------

11. (S) Murr said that Hizballah does not want to move inside
the UNSCR 1701 areas or to provoke any problems with the
United Nations Interim Force in Lebanon (UNIFIL). However,
if Israel violates the 1701 battlespace, Hizballah will use
this opportunity to flood back into this area. If Israel does
not go into the 1701 area, Hizballah will not enter these
areas either.

12. (S) Returning to the theme of a wary Hizballah, Murr told
us that "they (Hizballah) are scared, terrorized. They know
the Israelis will not lose again." Murr thinks that Ehud
Barak is a very different Minister of Defense than the one
who tried to win a war using airpower. Additionally,
Hizballah knows that President Bush is coming to Israel in
May, so they think that this new war must be completed by
that time.

MICHEL AOUN "GOING INSANE"
--------------------------

BEIRUT 00000372 003.2 OF 004

13. (S) When asked what role Free Patriotic Movement leader
Michel Aoun is playing right now, Murr deadpanned that he is
"going insane." Retired BG Fouad Ashkar, an Aoun advisor
dating to Aoun's time as Lebanese Army Commander, came to see
Murr on March 9 to discuss weapons permits for Aoun's
bodyguards. Murr told Ashkar that he was authorized only ten
permits. Aoun had recently contacted Murr's father to try and
pressure the MinDef into agreeing to fifty weapons permits.
A defiant Murr told Ashkar to "go get some of your Hizballah
suicide bombers to serve as bodyguards," the sub-context
being that perhaps Michel Aoun would get blown up along the
way.

14. (S) Murr is also limiting the number of visitors that can
drive up to Aoun's house in the protected enclave of Rabieh.
Murr only allows official visitors such as MPs to approach
the house; all the others must park outside and ride
shuttles. Murr says that the residents of Rabieh are
exhausted with Aoun being a bad neighbor and going against
Christian traditions by backing Hizballah.

15. (S) Indeed, Murr assesses that Aoun is "going insane." He
is increasingly responding to the demands of Ghassan Gebril
and his daughters, no matter how outlandish the ideas. He is
allergic to any mention of Army Commander General Michel
Sleiman and cannot accept a Sleiman Presidency; all this,
while taking up to five insulin shots a day to try and
control his increasingly severe diabetes.

ENTER "THE PRESIDIUM";
CONVINCING THE PATRIARCH
------------------------

16. (S) The idea of a more permanent arrangement where the
Cabinet exercises more of its executive (Presidential)
authorities is being discussed. Some have even dubbed this
arrangement a "Presidium" since the Cabinet would move to
exercise full Presidential prerogatives. Murr thinks that
the Maronite Patriarch will be reluctant to accept this idea
as it will effectively terminate the existence of the
Presidency to some indeterminate time in the future. Even so,
some leaders intend to address this subject with the
Patriarch in order to revive some government functions that
are lying dormant.

17. (S) Murr expressed skepticism about this concept, saying
leaders such as Amine Gemayel and Saad Hariri will use this
to elevate "stupid" people so that their own political light
is not obscured or risk being dimmed by another rising
politician. They are looking at this from their selfish
parochial views, an approach not uncommon in Lebanese
politics, Murr complained.

BUT ISRAEL IS STILL MY MAIN CONCERN;
OVERFLIGHTS THE MOST SINCE 1982
------------------------------------

18. (S) Making clear that he was not responsible for passing
messages to Israel, Murr told us that Israel would do well to
avoid two things when it comes for Hizballah One, it must not
touch the Blue Line or the UNSCR 1701 areas as this will keep
Hizballah out of these areas. Two, Israel cannot bomb bridges
and infrastructure in the Christian areas. The Christians
were supporting Israel in 2006 until they started bombing
their bridges. If Israel has to bomb all of these places in
the Shia areas as a matter of operational concern, that is
Hizballah's problem. According to Murr, this war is not with
Lebanon, it is will Hizballah. Murr also told us that the
number of overflights recently (reftel B and C) are the
highest number since 1982. The last time there were this many
overflights was just prior to Israel invading south Lebanon
in April 1982, he stated flatly.

IT'S NOT OUR WAR
WE HAVE TO PRESERVE THE ARMY
----------------------------

19. (S) Murr said that he had summoned LAF Commander General
Sleiman to discuss preparations for a Hizballah conflict with

BEIRUT 00000372 004.2 OF 004

Israel on March 7. Murr was especially concerned for members
of the 1st and 8th Brigades in the Beka'a valley. Murr thinks
that these units will be cut off from LAF HQ support while
Israel is conducting operations against Hizballah in the
Beka'a. As such, they will have to turn to the local
populace for food, water etc. Since the populace is mainly
Hizballah supporters, Murr is afraid that these two units
could be dragged into the fight, the ultimate disaster that
Murr hopes to avoid. As such, Murr is trying to ascertain
how long an offensive would be required to clean out
Hizballah in the Beka'a. The LAF will move to pre-position
food, money, and water with these units so they can stay on
their bases when Israel comes for Hizballah--discreetly, Murr
added.

20. (S) Murr also gave guidance to Sleiman that the LAF
should not get involved "when Israel comes." This guidance
came four days after Sleiman had instructed his officers to
be prepared (ref D). Murr told us that he promised Sleiman
the political cover for LAF inaction. Murr's opinion is that
an Israeli action against Hizballah would not be a war
against Lebanon and that Syria and Iran did not ask Lebanon's
permission to equip Hizballah with its rockets. As such, the
LAF has been ordered to not get involved with any fighting
and to fulfill a civil defense role, such as humanitarian
support, when/if hostilities break out. Murr told us that he
would personally speak to the Shia officers in the Army to
make sure they understood why the Army was not going to
participate. For Murr, the LAF's strategic objective was to
survive a three week war "completely intact" and able to take
over once Hizballah's militia has been destroyed. "I do not
want thousands of our soldiers to die for no reason," Murr
declared.

COMMENT
-------

21. (S) Murr's concern over another Hizballah war with Israel
appeared to be genuine. The length of time spent on this
topic given the other political machinations in Lebanon
during the two and a half hour conversation was indicative of
his level of concern. Murr seems intent on ensuring the Army
stays out of the way so that Hizballah bears the full weight
of an Israeli offensive. While we have noted the increase in
Israeli overflights, to include one over downtown Beirut
Friday, March 7, we have not seen indications that validate
Murr's concern that an Israeli offensive might be imminent.

SISON


Supposedly this is an "exclusive" to Al-Akhbar, but rumours suggest that it was leaked from Wikileaks as their publishing schedule is not controlled by one person. Wikileaks has (to date) published 1295/251,287 documents. You don't start right off with the good stuff.

:shuriken:

Let's see if it eats this post.

[clocker]

The cognitive dissonance down there must be extreme...

You presuppose the presence of cognition, which is ah, dubious.

[megabyteme]

So, megabyteme, you are saying that freedom of speech trumps a persons life?

People are always saying do not judge Muslims by the actions of a few extremists. Ok, I can understand that. So when the nonextremists turn in these extremists to help stop them, they should have their names put out there for the extremists to be able to look up and retaliate against them and their families?

I am sorry, but I can not buy that.

P.S. Why is there absolutely nothing in the leaks that mentions the Israel/Lebanon conflicts? I find it hard to believe that the U.S. had nothing what so ever to communicate about that. Surely someone who feels information should be free wouldn't leave out pertinent information like that.

OT: whats with the noneditable smilie on the top of this post?

Can you post the document/report you are referring to? There are limitations a journalist should put on the information being released, I'll agree with that. However, much of what has been released by wikilinks NEEDS to be discussed and brought to the attention of the American citizens- and the rest of the world, honestly. This has not been done by the obviously in-pocket "news" sources who have a duty to bring us news- not just cute stories, consumerism, and propaganda.

As for stories that bring about injury/death. The Rodney King tape comes to mind here. Should that tape have been kept out of public viewing? People got injured (killed?) because of its airing and resulting riots. That was newsworthy, IMO. It showed an underlying problem- racism, brutality, and out-of-control police in LA. People needed to be aware of the problem so it could be changed.

Not showing/releasing the documents showing corruption, and special interests will do nothing but allow it to continue AND grow. Backlash results when appropriate (sometimes lethal) reactions occur in the face of injustice. Ignorance may seem nicer, but it never results in fixing a problem that already exists. These things need to be brought to light.

[clocker]

People are always saying do not judge Muslims by the actions of a few extremists. Ok, I can understand that. So when the nonextremists turn in these extremists to help stop them, they should have their names put out there for the extremists to be able to look up and retaliate against them and their families?
Has this actually happened or is it a theoretical scenario?

[999969999]

People are always saying do not judge Muslims by the actions of a few extremists. Ok, I can understand that. So when the nonextremists turn in these extremists to help stop them, they should have their names put out there for the extremists to be able to look up and retaliate against them and their families?
Has this actually happened or is it a theoretical scenario?

Even if it is a theoretical scenario, what do you think about it?

[megabyteme]

Has this actually happened or is it a theoretical scenario?

Even if it is a theoretical scenario, what do you think about it?

I think you are stretching to cling to what the radio said was "bad". I've seen nothing that indicates wikileaks would be interested in doing what HMPL described (made up?).

[clocker]

Assange is out on bail.

[bigboab]

Assange is out on bail.

He is back in prison. Could not meet the high cost of bail(£200,000?). He also faces extradition to Sweden on alleged sex offences. Hearing due next week.

We cannot allow people to go around revealing the truth. It's just not not cricket, old boy.:cry:

[clocker]

Actually he could/can make bail but Sweden is appealing the ruling.

[whatcdfan]

We cannot allow people to go around revealing the truth. It's just not not cricket, old boy.:cry:

have you ever thought about who you are?

btw who you think dont know your truth?

[iLOVENZB]

Assange swaps Victorian jail for mansion,,, freed on bail (http://www.sbs.com.au/news/article/1445171/Assange-swaps-Victorian-jail-for-mansion)

Oh noze the terrorist has been released :shutup:

[bigboab]

We cannot allow people to go around revealing the truth. It's just not not cricket, old boy.:cry:

have you ever thought about who you are?

btw who you think dont know your truth?
Irony lost on someone who's first language is obviously not English.:(

[whatcdfan]

have you ever thought about who you are?

btw who you think dont know your truth?
Irony lost on someone who's first language is obviously not English.:(

that dosent make me any inferior or incapable to anyone whose first language is english and since you exactly understood what i meant to say i dont feel the need of any improvements either and in case if you dont know no one needs to be proficient in any language to spark the revolution and drag the culprits to justice be it a person or a nation
btw you are not the first idiot from the west who tends to evade questions when held accountable

EDIt: now did i get the irony part right?

[clocker]

Sorry but I didn't understand your point as originally stated either.
Perhaps you could rephrase?

[chalice]

have you ever thought about who you are?

btw who you think dont know your truth?
Irony lost on someone whose first language is obviously not English.:(

Fixed.

Irony. It's bloody well everywhere.

[bigboab]

Irony lost on someone who's first language is obviously not English.:(

that dosent make me any inferior or incapable to anyone whose first language is english and since you exactly understood what i meant to say i dont feel the need of any improvements either and in case if you dont know no one needs to be proficient in any language to spark the revolution and drag the culprits to justice be it a person or a nation
btw you are not the first idiot from the west who tends to evade questions when held accountable

EDIt: now did i get the irony part right?

I still do not know what you are trying to say. If I tell you I totally agree with what Assange is doing would that help?

Chavis! :lol: