Uh Oh!

[999969999]

Eagar is in the news again...

http://abcnews.go.com/US/wallow-fire-largest-arizona-history/story?id=13766077



http://azstarnet.com/news/local/article_5fcd78d1-87f1-52f6-850a-1cd0ef98cafe.html


http://www.azcentral.com/news/articles/2011/06/05/20110605wallow-fire-strategy0605.html


Lookout Albuquerque!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Od11LrWpZWc

[mjmacky]

Private/commercial fire services would have let your town burn down long ago.

[megabyteme]

Then again, so would about half the members who have read his posts... :shifty:

[mjmacky]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=n-y1-eXjJ_g

[999969999]

Environmentalists stopped the thinning of the trees for lumber, and this out of control fire is the end result of their efforts.

So now the burned trees are worthless for lumber and worthless for recreation as well.

On the positive side, there will be a lot more open range grass lands for cattle.


Eagar is actually mentioned directly in this video!


http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/43290922/ns/weather/

[devilsadvocate]

Environmentalists stopped the thinning of the trees for lumber, and this out of control fire is the end result of their efforts.


Are you suggesting that this fire wouldn't be if the land was opened to logging?

[clocker]

He isn't "suggesting" anything, he's making a one-to-one causal assertion.
As far as 9 is concerned, "environmentalists caused the fire".

I guess extreme drought and high winds don't count as causes because Republicans don't hate them yet.

[devilsadvocate]

He isn't "suggesting" anything, he's making a one-to-one causal assertion.
As far as 9 is concerned, "environmentalists caused the fire".

I guess extreme drought and high winds don't count as causes because Republicans don't hate them yet. From what I read 9 appears to be confusing commercial logging with forest management.

Thinning trees has benefits for ground flora, overgrown canopies allow little light to reach the ground. What it does not do is prevent forest fires or even slow the spread.

If he is talking about commercial logging that clears stretches of forest then that still wouldn't act as a fireblock as brush will take over. Brush will be just as dry as the forests and fire would spread just as fast.

[999969999]

I'm not the only one who feels this way...



http://tucsoncitizen.com/view-from-baja-arizona/2011/06/05/reports-from-the-wallow-fire-near-alpine/


Update – Senator Sylvia Allen

June 3, 2011

My heart goes out to those families in Alpine and Nutrioso, Arizona, who had to evacuate last night (June 2) because of the Wallow fire, which swept down from the ridge above Alpine. This is the community where my father was born and where some of my family still live. Sadly, there will be some who will have no home to go home to. I know what it is like to be forced to leave your home on a few hours notice. In 2002, we were forced to evacuate our home due to the Rodeo/Chediski Fires.

I once again must express my anger at the lack of forest management that, for the last 20 years, has turned our forests into a tinderbox of undergrowth, small trees, brush, and downed trees. In some areas of the forest around Alpine, the undergrowth was so thick that you could not even walk across the forest floor.

In 1990, Arizona had a thriving forest industry with 15 sawmills bringing $550 million a year to the Arizona economy and employing thousands of rural Arizona citizens. Many rural ranching families ran cattle across the forest land, helping to keep keep the undergrowth down and cleaned out. Over the years, their allotment numbers have been cut to the point that many have gone out of business.

Living through the “timber wars” of the 1990s, I know that the Forest Service was knee deep in lawsuits brought by environmentalist groups pushing for efforts to list the Mexican Spotted Owl and the Goshawk. The timber companies hung on as long as they could, spending thousands of dollars defending their legal contracts in court. Eventually, one by one, they went out of business, and their infrastructure was sold at auction.

There was a time when the Forest Service operated in the black with a very healthy return on their investment. The natural resources that were developed on Forest Service lands created jobs and products benefitting the American people. They were the only federal agency that accomplished such things.

All that changed when misinformation, faulty science, lawsuits, and downright lies were used to shut down our forests by those environmental groups that built multi-million-dollar businesses putting families out of work. These flawed environmental philosophies have made their way into federal policies that have now resulted in an unhealthy forest environment.

The castastrophic fires of the last few years are an indication of the health and vitality of our forests. This overgrowth of trees has depleted our watersheds. If the current disastrous Wallow fire burns for the next 15 days, it will put as much pollution into our air as 700 million cars running 24 hours a day for a year.

We must return to common-sense forest management. The federal government held 12 western states hostage and only agreed to grant us statehood if we gave up control of 60% of our land, assuring the states that they (the states) would have use of the land and be able to use the resources within the boundaries of our respective states. The federal government has broken its word.

Sylvia Allen
Senator Sylvia Allen
President Pro Tempore
602-926-5219
[email protected]

[devilsadvocate]

Oh I feel so foolish.

A lawmaker says environmentalists are to blame for the fire, so we have all the proof needed that it wouldn't have happened if not for them and their radical agenda to destroy jobs.

Again I ask, do you really think that fires don't happen in managed areas?

Do logged areas have fire reproof irrigation systems that I don't know about.


I've stated that forest management has benefits, but even the most efficient tending doesn't produce flame immune trees.

[clocker]

All that changed when misinformation, faulty science, lawsuits, and downright lies were used to shut down our forests by those environmental groups that built multi-million-dollar businesses putting families out of work.
What "multi-million dollar business" is she referring to?

[mjmacky]

All that changed when misinformation, faulty science, lawsuits, and downright lies were used to shut down our forests by those environmental groups that built multi-million-dollar businesses putting families out of work.
What "multi-million dollar business" is she referring to?

Questioning a politician's rhetoric has become a laborious exercise these days. They aren't, after all, intended to be factual statements.

[clocker]

So true, however I was interested in sending a resume.

[megabyteme]

What "multi-million dollar business" is she referring to?

Selling sandwiches to the camera crews. :mellow:

[999969999]

More info about econuts and forest fires...

http://www.mountainsofstone.com/forest_fires.htm




And here's a link to the Eagar webcam, to see the actual progress of the fire, and not the media hype...

http://www.instacam.com/InstaCAM/imagelist_by_week.asp?id=SPRVH


My family has relocated to the ranch house northwest of Springerville, in the grasslands, away from the path of the fire.

And in a few weeks, I'm taking off for Eugene, Oregon.

[megabyteme]

And in a few weeks, I'm taking off for Eugene, Oregon.

I never did see you as the stay and help/fight type, 9's...

Enjoy your vacation, sweet prince. :dry:

[mjmacky]

And in a few weeks, I'm taking off for Eugene, Oregon.

I never did see you as the stay and help/fight type, 9's...

Enjoy your vacation, sweet prince. :dry:

Of course not, labor without pay falls under the jurisdiction of a handout. You know he can't stand to see someone in need get a handout.

[999969999]

And in a few weeks, I'm taking off for Eugene, Oregon.

I never did see you as the stay and help/fight type, 9's...

Enjoy your vacation, sweet prince. :dry:


Ah, you're so jealous! But no, it's not a vacation this time around. I'm relocating to Eugene, Oregon to attend the University of Oregon for 4 years. I'll still come back to Eagar on some major holidays to visit my folks, and when I do, if I get really bored (because Eagar can be a bit boring at times), I'll come back on here and rattle your cage again. Just for shits and giggles and old times' sake.


Hans

[bigboab]

You might have trouble getting back in with these new immigration laws in force. Especially if you look Latino.:whistling

[megabyteme]

I never did see you as the stay and help/fight type, 9's...

Enjoy your vacation, sweet prince. :dry:


Ah, you're so jealous! [...]

No, I've had a difficult life, but I've learned A LOT from my struggles. You, on the other hand, remain blind and hypocritical in your bubble. You may receive an education (free, NTL), but you will not learn anything until you actually live as a man. I don't see that happening ANY time soon.

It is EXTREMELY hard to look at you with any kind of respect. Outside of luck, there is NOTHING separating you from the "welfare trash" you condemn. A free ride, is a free ride. :dry:

[mjmacky]

It is EXTREMELY hard to look at you with any kind of respect. Outside of luck, there is NOTHING separating you from the "welfare trash" you condemn. A free ride, is a free ride. :dry:

It's kind of mean to lump him in with welfare recipients. I mean some of those people have character and really do need help, no reason to insult them by comparison.

[Hologram]

I know some truly hardworking people that life pissed on and they ended up receiving welfare. Truly sad.

[wpagan13]

This guy from Arizona is clueless and doesn't know shit

[999969999]

You might have trouble getting back in with these new immigration laws in force. Especially if you look Latino.:whistling

No problem there, unless they're looking for people who look sort of like this...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NwW0q65VIas


But then, how many Austrians are flooding across the Arizona border with Mexico?

Some think profiling is evil, but really it is just common sense. Who is coming across? Look for them. Not Austrians.

[megabyteme]

I don't imagine the Polish welcome you crossing their borders freely...

[mjmacky]

Some think profiling is evil, but really it is just common sense. Who is coming across? Look for them. Not Austrians.

You oversimplify. Profiling for Arabic terrorists might work, because they are so delusional in their devotion to their religion that they won't break from an easily identifiable and stereotypical image. This notion is what prevents it from being inherently evil, there's a logic to it (the touted common sense). The day you see muslim-immigrant terrorists in Armani suits is the day the profiling becomes practically ineffectual for that sort of thing.

Profiling for South/Central Americans and Mexicans because you're a xenophobe/racist/ignoramus (or all the above), THAT has an inherent evil to it. Hunting down people for the sole infraction of illegal immigration and establishing an abuse-worthy tool for those rabid bean flickers is nothing noble, and a Mexican (legal or illegal) is no more deserving of that than an Austrian douchebag.

[mjmacky]

I don't imagine the Polish women welcome you crossing their borders freely...

/modernized

[999969999]

From the Arizona Republic newspaper, June 13th, 2011:

"The trees once grew farther apart, and the open space was maintained by the periodic fires that swept through forests, slow-burning blazes that rarely killed established trees."


"The timber industry helped keep forests thin ... Lawsuits by environmentalists to stop old-growth logging drove much of the timber industry out of business, and the forests grew denser still.

In such a condition, the forests can't stand up to a punishing drought when a fire breaks out. Any doubt about that burned up with the forests scorched years earlier by the Rodeo-Chediski Fire an hour up the highway from where the crews were working last November outside Greer."

"Early reports from the Wallow Fire suggest that, in areas that had been thinned under the stewardship project, flames dropped closer to ground level and burned more slowly. Firefighters have told people on the scene, including visiting lawmakers and resource managers, that they were able to better protect Alpine because trees had been thinned around the perimeter of the community."

"The environmental groups have come under heavy criticism in recent weeks by people in the Wallow Fire's path. They blame the groups for killing the timber industry with endangered-species lawsuits, allowing the forests to grow dangerously dense."


The evacuation of Eagar is now over and people are returning to their homes again. Fortunately, the fire did not harm Eagar, mainly due to the natural fire break of the grass lands in between most of Eagar and the forest. But when everyone was streaming out of Eagar on the day of the evacuation, it felt like the Anatevka scene for awhile there http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RWiRetxeviw (except you need to picture a bunch of Germanic people rather than Jews to get the idea :) ).

[999969999]

I don't imagine the Polish welcome you crossing their borders freely...

We crushed them! :)

And you see, this is what can happen when a country is either unwilling or unable to defend the sovereignty of its borders.

[mjmacky]

I don't imagine the Polish welcome you crossing their borders freely...

We crushed them! :)

And you see, this is what can happen when a country is either unwilling or unable to defend the sovereignty of its borders.

You mean the Mexican military is going to crush the U.S. if we don't metaphorically buttfuck their expats? Does the color red scare you?

[bigboab]

We crushed them! :)


How many millions of people died because of that action? I hope you are not proud of that.

[mjmacky]

We crushed them! :)


How many millions of people died because of that action? I hope you are not proud of that.

I don't think he even understands what comes out of his own mouth sometimes. He has the reading comprehension of a tape recorder