Ron Arad

[tralalala]

Hi,

Thought id come back here to see whats going on and post this :P

well, has anyone here heard of Ron Arad? to do so, youll need to jump back 17 (!!!) years in time, to the day he and his fellow partner in their aircraft made a little mistake and flew into Lebanese air territory, and crashed the plain.
The partner was rescued soon after the crash, but Arad was taken in captivity by hizballah...
17 years later, he is still there.

Lately, there has been an outbreak in an ongoing deal to swap 3 israeli soldiers, who are known are dead that were taken by hizballah 3 years ago, and Elhannan Tennenboim, a citizen who was kidnapped in Abu Dhabi while making businness (or so that was told), and for these four people, there will be 457 (if i remember correctly), 457 arab prisoners (in israel) let free (palestinians, arabs, the lot) including the guy who tortured Ron for years in Iran who i cannot currently remember his name.
the thing is, that latest news shows that Ron may still be alive, 17 years after he was taken prisoner in Lebanon and later transferred to Iran, and the Israeli government (which i live under) is doing absolutely NOTHING to include Ron in this ongoing deal!!!

dont get me wrong, but more and more people are getting invloved in this unfairness, and actually, the fact is that for Israel, a persons life is worth a lot more here than for hizballah, 100 or so prisoners for every person, which also gives a hint about how much hizballah cares about the people they call "holy fighters".

just to give us people something to talk about.

tralalala

[Billy_Dean]

Israel needs the prison space so they can go on arresting 100's more arabs and imprisoning them without charges or trials.



... he and his fellow partner in their aircraft made a little mistake and flew into Lebanese air territory, and crashed the plain.

Edit: I should just add here that Ron Arad was an Israeli air force navigator whose plane was shot down in an illegal incursion into Lebanon, in which many innocent civilians were killed. The raid was later condemned by the United Nations. It was not a little mistake.


:)

[Billy_Dean]

I will just say here, seperately, that I hope he is alive, and well, and I hope he is returned as part of this deal.



:)

[billyfridge]

Originally posted by Billy_Dean@16 November 2003 - 13:10
Israel needs the prison space so they can go on arresting 100's more arabs and imprisoning them without charges or trials.



... he and his fellow partner in their aircraft made a little mistake and flew into Lebanese air territory, and crashed the plain.

Edit: I should just add here that Ron Arad was an Israeli air force navigator whose plane was shot down in an illegal incursion into Lebanon, in which many innocent civilians were killed. The raid was later condemned by the United Nations. It was not a little mistake.


:)
Looks to me Billy that Isreal is building the biggest prison in the world. <_<

i like yer avatar :D

[Billy_Dean]

i like yer avatar biggrin.gif

Thanx Billy, how about this one for you?
http://www.uploadit.org/files2/161103-surfer.jpg

Just copy and paste it into your avatar settings.



:)

[tralalala]

theres still one thing you dont understand:
hizballah take israeli prisoners because they know we care more about our prisoners than they do, and that they will get some 100&#39;s for every prisoner they take.

i dont see why we cant give all theirs back andtake all ours back... :(

tralalala

[Billy_Dean]

Why don&#39;t they care as much as Israel? Are they less human? How many Israeli prisoners do they have? Very few&#33; Against 100&#39;s that have been arrested without charges or trials. So they take yours to get theirs back, what&#39;s your problem?

And what about your original post, what about the little "mistake" comment? Those planes bombed refugee camps, they killed innocent civilians, you made it sound like they were on a day trip and wandered across the border by mistake.

I&#39;m not surprised MediaSlayer has stayed away from this thread.


:)

[tralalala]

right lets get something straight here:
they are not less human, but care less about their "freedome fighters", the imprison our people with no trial because they know we will give them 100&#39;s of prisoners per person taken by them.
about the little mistake: they were s-h-o-t d-o-w-n its not that difficult to understand....

i dont see why all of our prisoners for all of theirs is a good deal...

tralalala

[Alex H]

Originally posted by tralalala@17 November 2003 - 14:21
about the little mistake: they were s-h-o-t d-o-w-n its not that difficult to understand....

i dont see why all of our prisoners for all of theirs is a good deal...
Well obvoiusly it was a bit of a mistake for the guys who got shot down&#33; The Arabs doing the shooting didn&#39;t make the mistake: they hit them&#33; And they hit them because they were flying somewhere they shouldn&#39;t: Lebannon.

And the Lebannese (and Palistinians) don&#39;t have the huge resources that the US provides to Isreal. Thats why the only way they can have an effect is by suicide bombings. Everyone makes a big deal about "holy warriors being rewarded in heaven". You&#39;d be lucky to have such a cool deal with God, especially when you only have a few kilos of C4&#33;

[tralalala]

ok Alex, so what your saying now is that suicide bombings is ok, lets let all the arabs do as many of those as we want, like in istanbul a couple days ago, all ok with bombings. i think not.


just something to chew on

tralalala

[Billy_Dean]

Come on then Tralala, let&#39;s hear you condemn the rocket attacks on apartment blocks, the bulldozing of peoples homes, the stealing of their land, imprisonment without trial, denial of basic human rights, and all the other attrocities commited by the Israeli government on the Palestinians.

Just something for you to chew on&#33;


:)

[3RA1N1AC]

wow, funny how tralalala consistently ignores that whole "the reason Ron Arad was in Lebanon was to kill Palestinians" issue. he presents it more like a case of "they were out for a sunday drive and then the dirty arabs had the nerve to shoot them down." sometimes you really have to cut out a big part of the truth, to make a hero out of a killer. :unsure:

[Billy_Dean]

I wonder if I&#39;m right to presume that "Proud to be British" Tralala, who calls Israel "Our country" is a settler in occupied Palestine?


:)

[Alex H]

Originally posted by tralalala@18 November 2003 - 06:00
ok Alex, so what your saying now is that suicide bombings is ok, lets let all the arabs do as many of those as we want, like in istanbul a couple days ago, all ok with bombings. i think not.

No I&#39;m not saying its OK to go around bombing places willy-nilly. I&#39;m saying that these tactics are understandable given the complete lack of support by many western nations. Certainly, they receive less miltary support than Israel.

Blowing yourself up to make a political point just shows the desperation of your situation

[tralalala]

ok, so what you wanna say is that jews SHOULD NOT have their own country?
funny, i thought most of the countries in the UN decided on a jewish state in the LAND OF ISRAEL. is this true?

another chewy thing to chew on

tralalala

[Alex H]

YES&#33; FINE&#33; THEY (why am I saying they?) SHOULD HAVE THEIR OWN COUNTRY IF THEY WANT IT&#33;

However I don&#39;t think it would hurt them to be a bit nicer to the Palestinians. Cause they want their own country too, just like the Jews. And you gotta remember that Israel is a very small space to fit the people of an ENTIRE RELIGION into. I think Israel needs to accept that they don&#39;t have enough room for everybody, and putting them on the next door neighbor&#39;s land isn&#39;t a real solution.

[tralalala]

right lets get something straight here: the muslim religion is of about 1 billion people, palestinians are about 2 million (nothing to argue here).
second: wouldnt you agree that its INSANE that nearly every muslim (ok not muslim, PALESTINIAN nothing racist here) has 7-15 children??????

and another thing: im very left wing, i support giving back the WHOLE west bank and the gaza strip. i support bringing down to earth those prat settlers that live in caravans like ignorant a**holes, and i support a palestinian state that will live in peace and harmony.

too bad (for me, the country and the world) that we, israel, have a government that i think monkeys are smarter than it...

tralalala

[Alex H]

First: Sorry, I meant Israel is a small place to fit an entire religion (being the Jews).

Re: Palestinian families, yeah I reckon 15 kids is a bit much, but large families are symptomatic of third world living conditions. Hopefully one day Israel can have their bit of land, Palestine can have their bit of land and both countries can have better sex education :)

And you can be proud to have helped make a positive change in the world.

:)

[tralalala]

thanks Alex, im glad we got our little misunderstanding solved :):):):):)

do you know, apparently in about some 100 million years, central israel to the north of it, syria, lebanon and jordan will "float" up and will become an island? lol, im glad i wont be there then... i cant imagine what will happen then...


tralalala :D

[Alex H]

Pehaps God has decided to trash the pace rather than hav people fighting over it :D Seriously, its a pretty shitty environment round there. I dunno why people keep having wars about who owns some sand with a few rocks in it.

Talking about landscapes I heard a great convesation the other day: I was in a pub and some Pommy guy over here for the Rugby World Cup was going on about Australians being convicts etc. who got kicked out of England. Some guy at the other end of the bar yelled out: "Well thanks for finding us a prison with the BEST BEACHES IN THE FUCKING WORLD&#33;" Pommy guy shut up after that. Funny how the English could have sent their social rejects to an island paradise... :D

[tralalala]

lol... i liked that story in the bar.. lol... but WE ARE THE WORLD CHAMPIONS&#33;&#33;&#33;&#33;&#33;&#33;&#33;&#33;

:D:D:D:D:D



tralalala

[Billy_Dean]

Originally posted by tralalala@26 November 2003 - 20:45
lol... i liked that story in the bar.. lol... but WE ARE THE WORLD CHAMPIONS&#33;&#33;&#33;&#33;&#33;&#33;&#33;&#33;

:D:D:D:D:D



tralalala
Really? What has Israel won now then?


:)

[tralalala]

actually, we have the windsurfer world champion, a ranked 16 in the womens WTA tour, a wrestling european (or world, cant remember) champion... we are rising you know&#33;&#33; :P


tralalala

[Alex H]

Maybe one day you guys will have the chance to let us kick your arse in a real sport :D :D :D :D

[junkyardking]

Originally posted by tralalala@24 November 2003 - 20:54
right lets get something straight here: the muslim religion is of about 1 billion people, palestinians are about 2 million (nothing to argue here).
second: wouldnt you agree that its INSANE that nearly every muslim (ok not muslim, PALESTINIAN nothing racist here) has 7-15 children??????

and another thing: im very left wing, i support giving back the WHOLE west bank and the gaza strip. i support bringing down to earth those prat settlers that live in caravans like ignorant a**holes, and i support a palestinian state that will live in peace and harmony.

too bad (for me, the country and the world) that we, israel, have a government that i think monkeys are smarter than it...

tralalala
That&#39;s a very stereotypical view to have, what is the amount of children got to do with anything, my great grandmother had 8 kids in the UK.

I think it stupid to say every Palestine family has 7 - 15 children what a load of rubbish.

Giving back the west bank and the like has never been the major issue unless your an orthodox Jew, the major stumbling block has always been the return of Palestine refugees to Israel,
Which would if it went ahead would upset the ideal of having a Jewish only state which in itself is an eugenic/racist ideal like the Nazis had of Germany being Aryan(white), the same goes for any other state which bases itself on one religion e.g. Iran.

If you base your state on one religion/race you’re asking for trouble.

You can go over all the history but we are here now not in the Past, solving these issues wont be easy.

[Alex H]

Originally posted by junkyardking@30 November 2003 - 02:41
If you base your state on one religion/race you’re asking for trouble.

You&#39;re right. Most western countries based themselvs on Christianity and look where it&#39;s got us&#33; And like Judaism and Islam, it&#39;s supposed to be a peaceful religion (A summary of the new testament: Don&#39;t shit on other people, live a happy life and remember the big guy upstairs thinks you&#39;re cool).

Go figure&#33;

[junkyardking]

Originally posted by Alex H+30 November 2003 - 23:16--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td>QUOTE (Alex H @ 30 November 2003 - 23:16)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'> <!--QuoteBegin-junkyardking@30 November 2003 - 02:41
If you base your state on one religion/race you’re asking for trouble.

You&#39;re right. Most western countries based themselvs on Christianity and look where it&#39;s got us&#33; And like Judaism and Islam, it&#39;s supposed to be a peaceful religion (A summary of the new testament: Don&#39;t shit on other people, live a happy life and remember the big guy upstairs thinks you&#39;re cool).

Go figure&#33; [/b][/quote]
I would have to argue it&#39;s not the same thing, while early on western countries based themselves on Christianity it has slowly been diluted, we can hardly base concepts of democracy and anti discrimination on Christianity.

The extremist attitudes from some religious followers is not new, Israel is very hypocritical in it’s stance against Palestine, before Israel became Israel Jewish extremists terrorists bombed buses and killed civilians in what was Palestine.

Alot of the extremist behavior from some Muslims can be traced back to the disgusting treatment they received during the last 50 years including the CIA sponsored coup in Iran which replaced democracy with the shah this in turn was used by extremists to gain power.

It&#39;s all pretty sad, the oil has been more a curse to these people than a blessing.

[tralalala]

wait just a minute there: where did i say that there shouldnt be a Palestinian state?&#33;
actually, i dont mind having all the refugees come back (to Palestine of course)... i dont care if they have to shove 4 million refugees into a tiny country, that would be their problem then cos they will be a country, right?


tralalala

[junkyardking]

Originally posted by tralalala@3 December 2003 - 12:11
wait just a minute there: where did i say that there shouldnt be a Palestinian state?&#33;
actually, i dont mind having all the refugees come back (to Palestine of course)... i dont care if they have to shove 4 million refugees into a tiny country, that would be their problem then cos they will be a country, right?


tralalala
I dont quite understand what you mean, they woundnt be comming back to Palestine they would be comming back to what is now Israel, they got booted out lost there land and property which they deserve back,
but if this happened Israel would no longer be a Jewish state as it would upset the ratio of Jews to Arabs, it might actualy make Arabs the majority in Israel.

Dont see it happening thou. ;)

[tralalala]

NO NO NO NO
the palestinians would get a state consisting of the gaza strip and the western bank actually... and they wil have a road joining the 2 which would be heavily guarded (this is seriouse, the governments idea).
then, they can do whatever they wish: bring back their people and all that, and they wouldnt be a majority of arabs in israel....... they would be the majority of arabs in their own state: Palestine :P

tralalala

[Rat Faced]

Originally posted by tralalala@3 December 2003 - 17:27
NO NO NO NO
the palestinians would get a state consisting of the gaza strip and the western bank actually... and they wil have a road joining the 2 which would be heavily guarded (this is seriouse, the governments idea).
then, they can do whatever they wish: bring back their people and all that, and they wouldnt be a majority of arabs in israel....... they would be the majority of arabs in their own state: Palestine&nbsp; :P

tralalala
No, you misunderstand...

The UN resolution was the return of Refugee&#39;s to their homes, not to the state next door.

ie: return to Israel.



Personally, I&#39;d be happy for 2 "States" to recognise each other and not kill each other...

[tralalala]

Rat Faced, im pleased to announce you have the same mind as me... 2 states is most definately better than 1 state and an automony (i think thats how you spell it... sorry if im wrong) fighting and killing...

tralalala