PDA

View Full Version : Disappearing Threads,unacceptable!



hobbes
12-06-2003, 06:22 AM
I was looking for a thread I posted on which centered on "white people forming their own group". The thread did degenerate into some name calling, but I posted some sincere material and attempted to be constructive on that thread.

The thread is now gone, as are several others, I have noticed. I agree with locking threads which have gone astray and have become flaming wars, but to delete the thread is unacceptable censorship.

I will not remain here if this persists. I understand the rules of conduct, as most do, no need to erase a thread because individual losers derail a discussion.

You can delete individual threads with an explanation given, but to delete the whole thread is unacceptable.

I cannot stress how strongly I feel about this. Threads must stop disappearing without explanation.

More people will leave because they feel censored than people who would leave because they have been offended.

Billy_Dean
12-06-2003, 06:35 AM
On the board I help run, we have a mod index, this tells admin what actions individual mods have taken. I'd like to see the stats on this forum, I think the same names will be popping up next to these actions. I know I have my own mod here, just for me, who follows me around deleting posts in case someone should get upset at any innocuous remark I may make, always anonymously tho.


:)

rf9rider
12-06-2003, 06:38 AM
I must agree with Hobbes on this one, i don`t frequent many forums, but i do enjoy this one as i like to see topics posted on different subjects, surely we are all "adult" enough to "censor" what we want to/don`t want to see?
If i don`t like the look of a topic heading, i don`t look.

[B][O][T]
12-06-2003, 06:43 AM
Originally posted by Board Rules
1. All posts are the property of the poster. Comments and opinions are those of the poster, and do not necessarily reflect the views or beliefs of this site and its administrators. Posts may be deleted for any reasons the administrators and moderators deem reasonable. Posts may be editted by the administrators and moderators if the post violates the board rules.

Actually We dont delete threads, however We sometimes move threads to Our trashcan (only staff can see this forum) for "any reasons the administrators and moderators deem reasonable"

BOT

hobbes
12-06-2003, 06:54 AM
Originally posted by &#091;B+--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td>QUOTE (&#091;B)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'> [O][T],6 December 2003 - 07:43]<!--QuoteBegin-Board Rules
1. All posts are the property of the poster. Comments and opinions are those of the poster, and do not necessarily reflect the views or beliefs of this site and its administrators. Posts may be deleted for any reasons the administrators and moderators deem reasonable. Posts may be editted by the administrators and moderators if the post violates the board rules.

Actually We dont delete threads, however We sometimes move threads to Our trashcan (only staff can see this forum) for "any reasons the administrators and moderators deem reasonable"

BOT[/quote]
Maybe you should stop trying be be my mother and let adults discuss controversial subjects.

Sure, idiots will intervene, but despite this, individuals can only grow when they openly are allowed to discuss controversial subjects.

In the thread I was referring to, a poster said to me "I found your post enlightening.....". That is what a forum is all about. Well, that is erased now.

Why not just lock the thread and explain why?

brotherdoobie
12-06-2003, 06:59 AM
I feel strongly about this as you hobbes.
I messaged a mod about deleted threads.....when I noticed ones that I
wanted to reply to or read were missing.

I was told that sometimes mod&#39;s delete threads they consider spam.
What is spam in the lounge? :blink:

As hobbes mentioned if it becomes to heated..... then lock the thread.
But to completley erase what is written is wrong.

Post in threads are written conversations amongst friends....members
and yes sometimes even enemies ;)

They are thoughts in so many kb&#39;s.....that we share with each other
because we choose to share.

In good or bad taste .........being without bodies in this web that we weave
to create the internet......all we have is our words.

Peace brotherdoobie

protak
12-06-2003, 07:52 AM
What a tangled web we&#39;ve weaved??&#33;&#33;&#33;&#33;&#33; ;) :lol:
@ hobbes, oh ya &#33;&#33; Perhap&#39;s you should start a pole, to see how strongly, some of us feel about that?

Evil Gemini
12-06-2003, 07:53 AM
:ph34r:

brotherdoobie
12-06-2003, 07:54 AM
Originally posted by protak@6 December 2003 - 02:52
What a tangled web we&#39;ve weaved??&#33;&#33;&#33;&#33;&#33; ;) :lol:
indeed. ;)

Peace brotherdoobie

hobbes
12-06-2003, 07:55 AM
Originally posted by protak@6 December 2003 - 08:52
What a tangled web we&#39;ve weaved??&#33;&#33;&#33;&#33;&#33; ;) :lol:
No Protak,

It is rather simple. Leave the forum alone. Any act of censorship will have more adverse effect on the forum than leaving a thread be.

protak
12-06-2003, 08:04 AM
Yes hobbes&#33;
I think you mist the point....what are there collective minds thinking of, to escape this one :lol:

Cheer&#39;s
Tim ;)

hobbes
12-06-2003, 08:09 AM
Originally posted by protak@6 December 2003 - 09:04
Yes hobbes&#33;
&nbsp; I think you mist the point....what are there collective minds thinking of, to escape this one :lol:

Cheer&#39;s
Tim ;)
Sure Tim, thanks for your support. :lol:

I think, big picture, that this is a topic which needs serious discussion amongst the mods.

PS: as a pissant member, I cannot start a poll&#33;

Adster
12-06-2003, 08:19 AM
well i know how you feel one day there was shit being posted like where do you stick your fingers up your ass" do you wash your hands after you take a shit" I made a thread seeing all the crude humor in the lounge called "what do you do with your sperm" and it was deleted within 5 minutes but yet the other crap shit threads stayed

anyway i dotn care this is the INTERNET means shit to me

hobbes
12-06-2003, 08:25 AM
Originally posted by Adster@6 December 2003 - 09:19
well i know how you feel one day there was shit being posted like where do you stick your fingers up your ass" do you wash your hands after you take a shit" I made a thread seeing all the crude humor in the lounge called "what do you do with your sperm" and it was deleted within 5 minutes but yet the other crap shit threads stayed

anyway i dotn care this is the INTERNET means shit to me
So you have no problem that any MOD can delete your post on their own arbitrary criteria.

Silly posts can be just as important as a serious ones. We all just want to express ourselves and let it flow.

Adster
12-06-2003, 08:29 AM
Originally posted by hobbes+6 December 2003 - 18:25--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td>QUOTE (hobbes @ 6 December 2003 - 18:25)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'> <!--QuoteBegin-Adster@6 December 2003 - 09:19
well i know how you feel one day there was shit being posted like where do you stick your fingers up your ass" do you wash your hands after you take a shit" I made a thread seeing all the crude humor in the lounge called "what do you do with your sperm" and it was deleted within 5 minutes but yet the other crap shit threads stayed

anyway i dotn care this is the INTERNET means shit to me
So you have no problem that any MOD can delete your post on their own arbitrary criteria.

Silly posts can be just as important as a serious ones. We all just want to express ourselves and let it flow. [/b][/quote]
no hobbes I don&#39;t have a problem with them deleting my post however what I do have a problem with on that particular day was similar thread like that stayed the problem is the consistency of the mods which is what I have a problem with

protak
12-06-2003, 08:36 AM
Sure Tim, thanks for your support. &nbsp;

No prob&#39;s hobbes&#33;&#33; :D
I&#39;d like to here the excuse....um I mean..explanation of this. ;)

hobbes
12-06-2003, 08:37 AM
Originally posted by Adster+6 December 2003 - 09:29--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td>QUOTE (Adster &#064; 6 December 2003 - 09:29)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'>
Originally posted by hobbes@6 December 2003 - 18:25
<!--QuoteBegin-Adster@6 December 2003 - 09:19
well i know how you feel one day there was shit being posted like where do you stick your fingers up your ass" do you wash your hands after you take a shit" I made a thread seeing all the crude humor in the lounge called "what do you do with your sperm" and it was deleted within 5 minutes but yet the other crap shit threads stayed

anyway i dotn care this is the INTERNET means shit to me
So you have no problem that any MOD can delete your post on their own arbitrary criteria.

Silly posts can be just as important as a serious ones. We all just want to express ourselves and let it flow.
no hobbes I don&#39;t have a problem with them deleting my post however what I do have a problem with on that particular day was similar thread like that stayed the problem is the consistency of the mods which is what I have a problem with[/b][/quote]
Why should a thread be deleted and not just closed, with an explanation.

You must consider what the forum is about.

Do we want to protect members from any "evil posts", or are we here in the lounge, as adults, willing to trade ideas.

I don&#39;t want any corksucking mod removing a thread because he/she unilaterally decides to do so. That is called a "powerplay" or "censorship", not an incident of moderation.

protak
12-06-2003, 08:43 AM
Why should a thread be deleted and not just closed, with an explanation.
Because Kid&#39;s just don&#39;t think straight nowaday&#39;s ... :blink: Do they?? :phone:

james_bond_rulez
12-06-2003, 08:45 AM
hobbes i am not sure what you are trying to achieve by posting threads about race and skin colors. some other dude the other day started a "calling all indians" or whatever and that didn&#39;t go so well too

so why start something that you KNOW will end in name calling and flame wars? what message are you trying to get across? <_<

balamm
12-06-2003, 09:29 AM
I hate to say anything in defense of some mods <_< however,
the blame is often misplaced.
As it was when sharedholders threads disappeared from the lounge several months ago.
No mod was involved and that was proved.
The finger was pointed at me I&#39;m sure but the simple fact is that if an admin takes a disliking to you, if Paul thinks you&#39;re a pest,
you or your posts will disappear without a trace.
No explanation, no owning up, just gone.
That position and power may now have been given to the mods, but it wasn&#39;t the case while I was there.

JFYI :)

MagicNakor
12-06-2003, 09:45 AM
I&#39;ve been on at least two threads in the last week that, when I moved to read the next page, I "was not permitted" to view.

I can understand locking the thread and letting it sink into the forum depths, but to simply remove threads, however crude they may be, irks me.

I hope this behaviour lessens.

:ninja:

Edit: If my memory serves, I&#39;d only had the non-permitting message happen once before this week, and it was quite some time ago. The instances, for me at least, have at least doubled. In a week.

sharedholder
12-06-2003, 09:55 AM
Two threads dissapeard in the development this week , both talking about Kazaa .

thewizeard
12-06-2003, 10:04 AM
Originally posted by MagicNakor@6 December 2003 - 09:45
I&#39;ve been on at least two threads in the last week that, when I moved to read the next page, I "was not permitted" to view.

I can understand locking the thread and letting it sink into the forum depths, but to simply remove threads, however crude they may be, irks me.

I hope this behaviour lessens.

:ninja:

Edit: If my memory serves, I&#39;d only had the non-permitting message happen once before this week, and it was quite some time ago. The instances, for me at least, have at least doubled. In a week.
Same here, in the past week while reading a thread, when I took another look I was not allowed to view it any more&#33; For some reason this seems to be happening more often recently.

Two days ago someone posted a link in the lounge to my radio station, completely without my knowledge or permission. I posted in that thread explaining that I had not given permission. My post was deleted. Why not just remove the link?

Soulseek&#39;s discussion board used to have,"The Graveyard,"for depositing closed threads, a similar forum would be a good idea here.

Billy_Dean
12-06-2003, 10:38 AM
The threads you were not permitted to view were the ones with large numbers of posts, this was for the same reason they were locked, they cause a drain on the board. This was then resolved, apparently, it was decided to allow them to be viewed, and sink naturally.



:)

jetje
12-06-2003, 10:43 AM
we kinda have such a place...

btw this specific topic was moved there by me. Even after i asked to keep it decent some abused it ;)
Then got a load of pm&#39;s complaining about it, got some pm&#39;s forwarded that contain really abusive language i thought the best to do was to let it cool down
and i moved it to that temp folder...
I could have closed it but this would probably have brought up this same debate ;) Now the topic is back, just took out the most nasty stuff...

fact is we don&#39;t censor this board...
we just try to control it as much as possible to keep it a decent place for all
It is impossible to take decissions then that pleases all ;)

Yogi
12-06-2003, 11:02 AM
I really loooove disappearing threads&#33;&#33;&#33;&#33;&#33;http://members.shaw.ca/wenpigsfly/smileys2/diepig.gif

Especially when i wrote my life&#39;s piece in it.http://members.shaw.ca/wenpigsfly/smileys2/director.gif
Showing how incredibly smart and witty i am....... :angry: :angry: :angry:

Nothing more refreshing then bellybutton-watching and to discover it is gone.....
http://members.shaw.ca/wenpigsfly/smileys2/apple.gif

O, me, oh, my, they stole my brilliance&#33;&#33;&#33;&#33;http://members.shaw.ca/wenpigsfly/smileys2/blahblah1.gif

I&#39;d say: Delete more threads&#33;&#33;&#33;http://members.shaw.ca/wenpigsfly/smileys2/giljotiini.gif

Keeps the board real fresh and keeps my vanity from exploding http://members.shaw.ca/wenpigsfly/smileys2/blowup.gif&#33;&#33;&#33;&#33;


Yogi-WhoDoesn&#39;tTakeHimselfTooSeriousThankGod

brotherdoobie
12-06-2003, 11:12 AM
Originally posted by SensualGardening@6 December 2003 - 06:02
I really loooove disappearing threads&#33;&#33;&#33;&#33;&#33;http://members.shaw.ca/wenpigsfly/smileys2/diepig.gif

Especially when i wrote my life&#39;s piece in it.http://members.shaw.ca/wenpigsfly/smileys2/director.gif

Showing how incredibly smart and witty i am....... :angry: :angry: :angry:

Nothing more refreshing then bellybutton-watching and to discover it is gone.....
http://members.shaw.ca/wenpigsfly/smileys2/apple.gif

O, me, oh, my, they stole my brilliance&#33;&#33;&#33;&#33;http://members.shaw.ca/wenpigsfly/smileys2/blahblah1.gif

I&#39;d say: Delete more threads&#33;&#33;&#33;http://members.shaw.ca/wenpigsfly/smileys2/giljotiini.gif

Keeps the board real fresh and keeps my vanity from exploding http://members.shaw.ca/wenpigsfly/smileys2/blowup.gif&#33;&#33;&#33;&#33;


Yogi-WhoDoesn&#39;tTakeHimselfTooSeriousThankGod
:sleep1: .......Did you say something?
Excuse me for dozing off


Peace brotherdoobie

MagicNakor
12-06-2003, 11:19 AM
Originally posted by Billy_Dean@6 December 2003 - 11:38
The threads you were not permitted to view were the ones with large numbers of posts...


:)
The threads I was looking at didn&#39;t top 6 pages. ;)

:ninja:

Yogi
12-06-2003, 11:19 AM
DoobieBlatter wrote:

.......Did you say something?
Excuse me for dozing off





Ohh.......

I&#39;ll repeat myself&#33;&#33; Just for You&#33;&#33;&#33;

I really loooove disappearing threads&#33;&#33;&#33;&#33;&#33;http://members.shaw.ca/wenpigsfly/smileys2/diepig.gif

Especially when i wrote my life&#39;s piece in it.http://members.shaw.ca/wenpigsfly/smileys2/director.gif

Showing how incredibly smart and witty i am....... :angry: :angry: :angry:

Nothing more refreshing then bellybutton-watching and to discover it is gone.....
http://members.shaw.ca/wenpigsfly/smileys2/apple.gif

O, me, oh, my, they stole my brilliance&#33;&#33;&#33;&#33;http://members.shaw.ca/wenpigsfly/smileys2/blahblah1.gif

I&#39;d say: Delete more threads&#33;&#33;&#33;http://members.shaw.ca/wenpigsfly/smileys2/giljotiini.gif

Keeps the board real fresh and keeps my vanity from exploding http://members.shaw.ca/wenpigsfly/smileys2/blowup.gif&#33;&#33;&#33;&#33;


Yogi-WhoDoesn&#39;tTakeHimselfTooSeriousThankGod

brotherdoobie
12-06-2003, 11:30 AM
Originally posted by SensualGardening@6 December 2003 - 06:19
DoobieBlatter wrote:

.......Did you say something?
Excuse me for dozing off





Ohh.......

I&#39;ll repeat myself&#33;&#33; Just for You&#33;&#33;&#33;

I really loooove disappearing threads&#33;&#33;&#33;&#33;&#33;http://members.shaw.ca/wenpigsfly/smileys2/diepig.gif

Especially when i wrote my life&#39;s piece in it.http://members.shaw.ca/wenpigsfly/smileys2/director.gif

Showing how incredibly smart and witty i am....... :angry: :angry: :angry:

Nothing more refreshing then bellybutton-watching and to discover it is gone.....
http://members.shaw.ca/wenpigsfly/smileys2/apple.gif

O, me, oh, my, they stole my brilliance&#33;&#33;&#33;&#33;http://members.shaw.ca/wenpigsfly/smileys2/blahblah1.gif

I&#39;d say: Delete more threads&#33;&#33;&#33;http://members.shaw.ca/wenpigsfly/smileys2/giljotiini.gif

Keeps the board real fresh and keeps my vanity from exploding http://members.shaw.ca/wenpigsfly/smileys2/blowup.gif&#33;&#33;&#33;&#33;


Yogi-WhoDoesn&#39;tTakeHimselfTooSeriousThankGod
Thank you :)

Peace brotherdoobie

J'Pol
12-06-2003, 12:44 PM
I agree with hobbes - I despise book burning and that is all the total removal of threads is. Lock them, fine - remove them entirely - no.

If for no other reason it is how I get to know who I am conversing with. Not by start date, or number of posts, or sig or avatar. I judge people by what they say and do. Like Cromwell I want it warts and all.

As hobbes said, I wish to be able to discuss things that I chose to discuss, in an adult (or sometimes puerile) way. I will do my own censorship thank you very much.

If the thread got so bad that it had to be totally removed then it should have been locked much earlier.

JJ

Thank you for coming forward and explaining the situation. Perhaps you will carry our message back to the admin / mod area. This is no joke or knee-jerk reaction. Some of us really are not very pleased.

Lamsey
12-06-2003, 12:52 PM
I&#39;ve never used the trashcan for this kind of thing myself, it&#39;s more for outwar spammers and the like as far as I&#39;m concerned.
However, each moderator does things differently and if a thread gets out of hand to the degree where it reflects badly on the board then it may be removed.

J'Pol
12-06-2003, 12:58 PM
Previously in these instances the bulk of the thread was left and the extreme posts removed - even that was rare.

If necessary the thread was then locked, but for preference it was left open with a mods warning to the participants. I think most of us have been there once or twice.

I believe it was the consensus that this was the right way. Things appear to have become somewhat draconian of late.

Billy_Dean
12-06-2003, 01:25 PM
I think a public warning to offenders in the thread they posted in is a better solution than locking or deleting threads. Although I do realise they do have to be locked sometimes.


:)

vivitron 15
12-06-2003, 01:53 PM
i agree with the need to remove any clear attempts at racism/flaming/spamming etc, but i do think that many threads just need a "spring clean"...if the easiest way for mods to do this is to move to a "cleaning" area, with the intent to tidy it, then move it back, then i am all for it, however i think its a bit much to remove threads/lock threads which contain interesting/useful stuff.

hobbes
12-06-2003, 04:59 PM
Originally posted by james_bond_rulez@6 December 2003 - 09:45
hobbes i am not sure what you are trying to achieve by posting threads about race and skin colors. some other dude the other day started a "calling all indians" or whatever and that didn&#39;t go so well too

so why start something that you KNOW will end in name calling and flame wars? what message are you trying to get across? <_<
I was just citing that thread as an example of a trend I have been noticing. I certainly did not start that thread. Despite it&#39;s provocative title certain people were able to devlelop a sub-discussion within that thread amid "STFU you racist :angry: ".

I only noticed it was gone because I wanted to quote something from it that I had posted and place in response to a different thread. So I was not really concerned about THAT particular thread, just worried about a new trend of disappearing threads in general.

brotherdoobie
12-06-2003, 05:42 PM
http://www.chinkii.com/uploads/album/cars/Censorshipno.gif

Peace brotherdoobie

leonidas
12-06-2003, 05:51 PM
I totally agree with hobbes.

It&#39;s a transgression of the speach freedom principle.

What we write is also some kind of history. And we can learn a lot about history.

The threads from this forum might be studied by historians 50 or 100 years later. Who knows? This forum&#39;s one of the first places where lots of people from lots of countries all over the world can discuss of miscelanous subjects without having to be carefull of what they are saying.

I hope some overzealed/overzelt forum moderator won&#39;t waste this :(

jetje
12-06-2003, 06:14 PM
well maybe you guys should realize you just can&#39;t say all in public, the topic wasn&#39;t shut because of the debate, but because of the flaming and the personal attacks also done by pm. A lot of you talk about censorship then but i think you guys sonmetimes need to realize what you post. If you try to post sharp as a knife expect a sharp remark back. It was past 3 in the night over here, no other mods around.. You guys have an easy chat sitting behind your keyboard <_< if the topic would get out of hand you were accusing us of not do the mod job right, if i locked you also would have started a debate about censorship. In these cases mods only do wrong... now i just took some cooldown time... placced it right back when i was awake...

Oh JP i already posted in that topic and asked to keep it clean, if people don&#39;t take that serious expect topics to get locked or deleted. ;)

For myself I just did what i thought was best at that time. Simple as that...

Lamsey
12-06-2003, 06:15 PM
Originally posted by brotherdoobie@6 December 2003 - 16:42
http://www.chinkii.com/uploads/album/cars/Censorshipno.gif

Peace brotherdoobie
Waht does that say? :blink: ;)

hobbes
12-06-2003, 06:19 PM
Originally posted by SensualGardening@6 December 2003 - 12:02
O, me, oh, my, they stole my brilliance&#33;&#33;&#33;&#33;http://members.shaw.ca/wenpigsfly/smileys2/blahblah1.gif

Yogi-WhoDoesn&#39;tTakeHimselfTooSeriousThankGod
Nice cheap shot Yogi.

So you are saying that I am concerned about losing my post and not the idea of censorship at all?

You are reading a hidden agenda into my thread, suggesting that I am a vain person who takes himself too seriously.

I would admit to taking pride in creating a well thought out post. I prefer to post about "ideas" not simply idle banter (which I do partake of in moderation). When I take the time to express myself on a subject, I would like to be able to use that post again if the subject or a spin off of the subject re-emerges. I certainly would get tired re-inventing the wheel everyday.

That thread is a good case in point. If you review that thread, my 3 posts (and 1 silly quip)are actually very short and are buried deep in this thread which is 91 posts long. None of my posts has more than 10 lines.

I did provide a link to a thread I started about 2 years ago in another forum. So the loss of that thread actually cost me nothing. I just stated my opinion and provided a link which explained why I thought that. I did not fill up the page with text, imposing my thoughts on the forum, just a link if someone were interested. The link did go to a series of posts which had taken me several hours to write and I would, in fact, be quite angry if that thread were to be "cleansed" because some Mod took arbitrary offense at another poster.

The point is this. I lost no heartfelt speech, merely a link, so it doesn&#39;t hold much water that I was concerned about losing something precious on that thread and was wrapped up in my own ego.

I was using that thread as an example to discuss a bigger issue, censorship. Most of the threads which have vanished were not ones in which I had posted.

What irks me is Mods acting as my mother.

brotherdoobie
12-06-2003, 06:30 PM
Couldn&#39;t we just put one of these stickers on post that might be considered offensive............
It&#39;s good enough for the RIAA ;)


http://www.chinkii.com/uploads/album/guys/censorship-pic.jpg

Peace brotherdoobie

J'Pol
12-06-2003, 06:31 PM
Originally posted by jetje@6 December 2003 - 19:14
well maybe you guys should realize you just can&#39;t say all in public,
A fairly concise definition of censorship.

JJ

I am not saying that you as the mods are not entitled to close threads, give people warnings, delete seriously offensive posts (preferably leave the post but change the content to "deleted for racist flaming" or whatever). There is nothing stopping you moderating or banning recidivists. That is part of what the mods job is.

However I do not agree with the total deletion of a thread because some of it is out of order. As I said earlier, that is just book-burning.

I can appreciate that you wanted to put a stop to the thread, however why not just lock it, even just put a comment that it is locked to cool down the participants. However leave what they say for all to see.

I want to read the opinions of others, whether I agree with them or not.

brotherdoobie
12-06-2003, 06:45 PM
I don&#39;t hold vauge esoteric reasons for not wanting post to be deleted.
These are my thoughts and electronic conversations with friends
and members of this forum.

Deleting these conversations eradicates memories
that belong to the collective.

Censorship often starts off quite innocent.........Where it ends is another matter.


Peace brotherdoobie

7thElement
12-06-2003, 06:54 PM
I don&#39;t like censorship too, but sometimes we need to move posts to protect the community.

Let&#39;s take this "white people" topic as example. Maybe it was just to start something funny, some ironic post or something else, but don&#39;t forget that people have feelings and searchengines visit us frequently to index our boards.

Would you really like it, if searchengines index such a topic and some racists join our board because they think that it is ok to "share their racist thoughts"* on a big board.

I really don&#39;t like that idea.

Be sure that our mods don&#39;t enjoy to close / move topics, but sometimes it is needed to protect the community.

*"share their thougths" borrowed from internet.annoy

Lamsey
12-06-2003, 06:55 PM
Originally posted by 7thElement@6 December 2003 - 17:54
"share their racist thoughts"
:blink: That sounds familiar.

Interesting...

J'Pol
12-06-2003, 06:59 PM
Originally posted by 7thElement@6 December 2003 - 19:54
I don&#39;t like censorship too, but sometimes we need to move posts to protect the community.

Let&#39;s take this "white people" topic as example. Maybe it was just to start something funny, some ironic post or something else, but don&#39;t forget that people have feelings and searchengines visit us frequently to index our boards.

Would you really like it, if searchengines index such a topic and some racists join our board because they think that it is ok to "share their racist thoughts" on a big board.

I really don&#39;t like that idea.

Be sure that our mods don&#39;t enjoy to close / move topics, but sometimes it is needed to protect the community.
I take it the concept of

"I disagree with what you say, but defend to the death your right to say it"

is one to which you do not subscribe.

If I may quote an earlier post


I don&#39;t deal with user issues at all since our mods know you all better than I do. I don&#39;t delete messages, I don&#39;t change any basics and until today I only added new smilies and the Kl Board radio forum on my own.

Seems like you don&#39;t want editorial control, as long as things are being done in a manner which suits corporate policy.

kAb
12-06-2003, 07:01 PM
wait... the board is communist? ever since this locking and trashcanning of posts?

ooooOOOO00000OOOOOOOoooooo

:ph34r:

bigboab
12-06-2003, 07:03 PM
Maybe some of the mods have daytime jobs with the &#39;Invisible Menders&#39;.

J'Pol
12-06-2003, 07:10 PM
Originally posted by bigboab@6 December 2003 - 20:03
Maybe some of the mods have daytime jobs with the &#39;Invisible Menders&#39;.
Whoosh, looks up but it&#39;s too late.

bigboab
12-06-2003, 07:30 PM
Originally posted by J&#39;Pol+6 December 2003 - 19:10--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td>QUOTE (J&#39;Pol @ 6 December 2003 - 19:10)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'> <!--QuoteBegin-bigboab@6 December 2003 - 20:03
Maybe some of the mods have daytime jobs with the &#39;Invisible Menders&#39;.
Whoosh, looks up but it&#39;s too late. [/b][/quote]
Disappearing threads?

james_bond_rulez
12-06-2003, 07:33 PM
Originally posted by kAb@6 December 2003 - 19:01
wait... the board is communist? ever since this locking and trashcanning of posts?

ooooOOOO00000OOOOOOOoooooo

:ph34r:
i love communism :lol:

ideally it&#39;s about sharing of wealth and knowledge. Helping other ppl when in need.

Great concept but sadly it doesn&#39;t work economicallly as it does not provide enough incentive.

otherwise i&#39;d be a happy commie ;)

Yogi
12-06-2003, 08:01 PM
Nice cheap shot Yogi.

So you are saying that I am concerned about losing my post and not the idea of censorship at all?


No. If my criticism would be pointed just at you, i would certainly name you.

I have no doubt whatsoever concerning your integrity.

However:


You are reading a hidden agenda into my thread, suggesting that I am a vain person who takes himself too seriously.


Correct. But not just this thread. It&#39;s in your style.

I think vanity is no problem, i do my fair share; i do find lack of insight in your

own needs/motives annoying. Especially if lot&#39;s of your reply&#39;s in certain threads

analyse those of others.

Maybe i should state more often to take a certain reply more lightharted.

As i meant it lightharted.


As for the &#39;mother&#39;-part.
Sounds traumatic. Sure it isn&#39;t, but that is how it comes off to me.


If you feel offended: my apologies.

I find your precence here highly complementary to the board.

Though i might sometimes read more then you actually write, it is because i tend

to read between the lines.

Someones real story is mostly not in his words. It&#39;s in his attitude.

And, yes, i think you take life and yourself(and this board&#33;&#33;) way too serious.

No wonder life disappoints you sometimes.


If this again makes no sense to you whatsoever, disregard it.

I think you&#39;re a good guy. Serious.

Enough to criticise and mock by occasion.


Yogi

jetje
12-06-2003, 08:14 PM
Originally posted by J&#39;Pol+6 December 2003 - 19:31--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td>QUOTE (J&#39;Pol @ 6 December 2003 - 19:31)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'> <!--QuoteBegin-jetje@6 December 2003 - 19:14
well maybe you guys should realize you just can&#39;t say all in public,
A fairly concise definition of censorship.

JJ

I am not saying that you as the mods are not entitled to close threads, give people warnings, delete seriously offensive posts (preferably leave the post but change the content to "deleted for racist flaming" or whatever). There is nothing stopping you moderating or banning recidivists. That is part of what the mods job is.

However I do not agree with the total deletion of a thread because some of it is out of order. As I said earlier, that is just book-burning.

I can appreciate that you wanted to put a stop to the thread, however why not just lock it, even just put a comment that it is locked to cool down the participants. However leave what they say for all to see.

I want to read the opinions of others, whether I agree with them or not. [/b][/quote]

However I do not agree with the total deletion of a thread because some of it is out of order. As I said earlier, that is just book-burning.

by moving it to that area it isn&#39;t moved j&#39;pol please read what i wrote&#33; I MOVED it
so we could do an easy job cleaning and taking out the nasty posts, also give it a rest and a second thought, the freakin post is cleaned and already back on the board, but hey if you guys wanna live with these kind of remarks just say it, and i&#39;ll won&#39;t bother to interfer anymore...

and your mom is a fucking prostitute with HIV AIDS

Ohh Jpaul, gues you are around long enough to be able to aply for the job anytime... also you shoulda know better that selfcensoring is what some people should need that would make our job a lot easier,

also the topic title is totally wrong,
It had to be "fucking up threads with stupid replies is totally unacceptable&#33;"

Don&#39;t blame the mods but blame your fellow members that can&#39;t control themselves,

have a nice night i&#39;m of for now ...

Snee
12-06-2003, 08:14 PM
nm

:)

bigboab
12-06-2003, 08:24 PM
Originally posted by SnnY@6 December 2003 - 20:14
nm

:)
Could be that nitrogen is not as inert as we think Snny. :ph34r:

hobbes
12-06-2003, 08:29 PM
@Sensual:

I think we both read between the lines and we both have minor traits which irritate the other, but overall we appreciate the contributions of the other.

What I do take very seriously is any infringement on my freedom of expression here. Also, I think that cleaning up threads is pointless, the damage has already been done and alters the historic accuracy of the forum. Forum interactions are a great area for research and it is impossible to understand the true dynamics of the board when the mods have revised the history.

We don&#39;t want to look like a bunch of Stepford wives, do we?
http://www.dollsoup.co.uk/wives.htm


"i do find lack of insight in your own needs/motives annoying."- You&#39;re annoyed by me not knowing what I am not aware of. That is a tough one to fix&#33;

What are my motives do you think? And how would you know if you were wrong?


Edit: I meant "mother" as the general mother figure, my actual mother is rather a good friend.

J'Pol
12-06-2003, 08:32 PM
Flippin heck, I thought I was being supportive of the mods difficult position.

Whilst supporting what hobbes said, as I thought it was a reasonable position and worthy of mature debate.

Fuck it.

brotherdoobie
12-06-2003, 08:44 PM
Originally posted by J&#39;Pol@6 December 2003 - 15:32
Flippin heck, I thought I was being supportive of the mods difficult position.

Whilst supporting what hobbes said, as I thought it was a reasonable position and worthy of mature debate.

Fuck it.
Yes it seems that our comments were taken as an attack.
When realy they were a defense.

jetje I have no problem with you as a mod.
I consider you to be excellent at your position.

Yet it is as simple as this.........Deleting threads is wrong.
Lock them if you must.

Do not take this personal jetje......My problem is with policy
not you my friend :)

Peace brotherdoobie

Yogi
12-06-2003, 09:03 PM
Originally posted by hobbes@6 December 2003 - 22:29
@Sensual:

I think we both read between the lines and we both have minor traits which irritate the other, but overall we appreciate the contributions of the other.

What I do take very seriously is any infringement on my freedom of expression here. Also, I think that cleaning up threads is pointless, the damage has already been done and alters the historic accuracy of the forum. Forum interactions are a great area for research and it is impossible to understand the true dynamics of the board when the mods have revised the history.

We don&#39;t want to look like a bunch of Stepford wives, do we?
http://www.dollsoup.co.uk/wives.htm


"i do find lack of insight in your own needs/motives annoying."- You&#39;re annoyed by me not knowing what I am not aware of. That is a tough one to fix&#33;

What are my motives do you think? And how would you know if you were wrong?

What I do take very seriously is any infringement on my freedom of expression here.

Excactly my feelings in allmost every situation.
No argument there.
I think though, i take this whole board a little less serious then you, hence my mocking.


Also, I think that cleaning up threads is pointless, the damage has already been done and alters the historic accuracy of the forum.

See above.
To be honest, i don&#39;t give a rats ass about the "historic accuracy".
With some deleted topics, i can still find enough to investigate, if needed.*

But to be honest, i am all for a MOD-free forum. Not because i don&#39;t like them or think them malfunctioning. I think selfregulation makes the best places. If a forum dies due to lack of moderation, it is it&#39;s destiny.

I think i need to tell i don&#39;t disagree with the points you make.(about deleting threads)
I just think fighting windmills is a waste of time, unless you see it as frivolous passtime.(Coming from a former committed windmill-fighter)


Forum interactions are a great area for research and it is impossible to understand the true dynamics of the board when the mods have revised the history.

See * again. And as for your own needs, you can allways keep records for yourself, though i understand the hassle.


We don&#39;t want to look like a bunch of Stepford wives, do we?


:lol: Actually that&#39;s the majority&#33;&#33;
And agreed, we are not&#33;&#33;


"i do find lack of insight in your own needs/motives annoying."- You&#39;re annoyed by me not knowing what I am not aware of.&nbsp; That is a tough one to fix&#33;


Well done.
But i think you are ducking here, hence making my point.


What are my motives do you think?&nbsp;

Surely i can only guess&#33;&#33;
I have to come back on that one. I might do you unjust.


And how would you know if you were wrong?

Not. As much as knowing if i&#39;m right.


Thanks. You are a true sport.

Yogi

hobbes
12-06-2003, 09:46 PM
But to be honest, i am all for a MOD-free forum. Not because i don&#39;t like them or think them malfunctioning. I think selfregulation makes the best places. If a forum dies due to lack of moderation, it is it&#39;s destiny.


I agree with that in principle, but I do see the MODs as having two very important roles and thus being necessary.

1) They need to control "SPAM". By "spam" I mean people and businesses that fill up the forums with false posts and links to their site. I witnessed a rather decent forum become disabled by this. You would have 50 posts per page and 48 were not just spam, but hidden spam. The title would sound ok, but once you clicked on the links you were re-directed.

2) Trolls- people who come to disrupt and upset. I salute the mods for ridding the forum of the octopussys, Hypoluxas and the like. Just a few rotten apples like these can cause the forum to lose its spirit and people drift away. I think the mods should be empowered to ban these people based on complaints from forum members. The discretion part is a mod deciding if the complaints are valid or a conspiracy.


Aside from these 2 roles, I thinks Mods should be totally hands off.


Aside: Have you seen Donnie Darko? Donnie to Father:"So they don&#39;t want us to tell anybody what we don&#39;t know?" Sound kinda familiar from my last post ;)

I am not planning any research. I&#39;m talking about future archeologists unearthing the forgotten derelict server which stores the data of the forum. They will attempt to reconstruct life in the year 2000, I want them to get the real "stuff".

Yogi
12-06-2003, 09:56 PM
I agree with that in principle, but I do see the MODs as having two very important roles and thus being necessary.

1) They need to control "SPAM". By "spam" I mean people and businesses that fill up the forums with false posts and links to their site. I witnessed a rather decent forum become disabled by this. You would have 50 posts per page and 48 were not just spam, but hidden spam. The title would sound ok, but once you clicked on the links you were re-directed.

2) Trolls- people who come to disrupt and upset. I salute the mods for ridding the forum of the octopussys, Hypoluxas and the like. Just a few rotten apples like these can cause the forum to lose its spirit and people drift away. I think the mods should be empowered to ban these people based on complaints from forum members. The discretion part is a mod deciding if the complaints are valid or a conspiracy.


Aside from these 2 roles, I thinks Mods should be totally hands off.


Totally true. Very convincing.


Aside: Have you seen Donnie Darko? Donnie to Father:"So they don&#39;t want us to tell anybody what we don&#39;t know?" Sound kinda familiar from my last post&nbsp;


:P ;)
Seen it. Point taken&#33;&#33;


I am not planning any research. I&#39;m talking about future archeologists unearthing the forgotten derelict server which stores the data of the forum. They will attempt to reconstruct life in the year 2000, I want them to get the real "stuff".


:lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:
Sometimes i tend to forget your sense of humor&#33;&#33;&#33;
That&#39;s my failure, btw. ;)


Yogi

j2k4
12-06-2003, 10:00 PM
Having just kinda skimmed this, I have to say I think J&#39;Pol and hobbes have been pretty congenial and reasonable throughout.

As for my two cents, lock it, edit it, whatever-

NOTHING SHOULD JUST "DISAPPEAR".

FULL STOP&#33;



edit: :P


An unlawful exercise was just committed by a "mad mod"

Just so you know. :)

I really preferred the other, though. ;)

Yogi
12-06-2003, 10:06 PM
Having just kinda skimmed this, I have to say I think J&#39;Pol and hobbes have been pretty congenial and reasonable throughout.


Did i anywhere state otherwise??? :blink: :blink: :blink:

Yogi

j2k4
12-06-2003, 10:12 PM
Originally posted by SensualGardening@6 December 2003 - 18:06

Having just kinda skimmed this, I have to say I think J&#39;Pol and hobbes have been pretty congenial and reasonable throughout.


Did i anywhere state otherwise??? :blink: :blink: :blink:

Yogi
For what it&#39;s worth, Yogi, I have no problem with your participation here, either.

&#39;Course, I&#39;m not a mod. ;)

lynx
12-06-2003, 10:12 PM
Although I realise that some members can get a little out of hand and something has to be done, if only in the short term (as with Jetje&#39;s moving and returning a thread), most members posting in this sort of thread are trying to have a serious debate about something.

So apart from the censorship issue, deleting reasonable posts is just as much bad manners as those posts which are causing problems in the first place. Solving one problem by creating another seems a little pointless to me.