Fuck Usa Law Policy!

[leonidas]

French airline steward detained for nine months in US
[Alex Lefebvre] jan.22.03


A 25-year old French airline steward, Michael Philippe, was held for nine months in the US on trumped-up charges of terrorist activity. On a January 2002 London-to-Orlando, Florida flight he discovered messages written in liquid soap in an airplane bathroom. The messages were: “Bin Laden is the best, all Americans must die,” and “There is a bomb on board—Al-Qaida.”
Philippe immediately notified the pilot, who landed in Reykjavik, Iceland. The plane was searched but no bombs were found, and the plane safely proceeded to Orlando.

Two months later, on March 28, 2002, the FBI arrested Philippe at Newark International Airport, charging him with “threatening to use weapons of mass destruction to annihilate the United States.” In violation of US law, he was not read his rights at the time of his arrest. (...) On April 19 a judge, while noting that the charges against Philippe were highly circumstantial, claimed that his French citizenship made him a flight risk. He reset bail at $500,000 and insisted on jailing Philippe, despite his parents’ request that he be allowed to stay under electronic surveillance with a host family in Orlando.

Thanks to a fundraising campaign in Philippe’s hometown of Aix-les-Bains in the Savoie district of southeastern France, his parents were able to post the $500,000 bail on April 22. On the 23rd Philippe was allowed to stay with the Orlando host family, but forced to wear an electronic bracelet enabling authorities to monitor his whereabouts.

Philippe protested his innocence during the entire ordeal. His lawyer, Olivier Morice, commented at the time that he was “the victim of the law-and-order phobia which currently reigns [in the United States].”

The FBI’s “evidence” against Philippe rested on four essential points: 1) Philippe’s fingerprints on the airplane bathroom mirror, 2) his fingerprints on a paper bag, 3) claims that handwriting analyses showed he had written the messages, 4) claims that inmates of an Orlando prison had heard him confess to having written the messages.

Each point turned out to be either inconclusive or bogus.

1) Philippe admitted to touching the mirror to determine the substance with which the message had been written. However, French police demonstrated that his fingerprints on the message were made when the soap had already dried, at least 13 minutes after the message was left.

2) French police also demonstrated that the position of Philippe’s fingerprints on the bag were consistent with someone holding it to read the message, not someone writing on it. The French police pointed to an unidentified palm print in a position consistent with someone writing on the bag. The FBI did not investigate the palm print.

3) The FBI initially relied on a private lab to certify that Philippe’s handwriting matched that on the bag. When a police lab in Orlando reanalyzed the sample, it claimed that the test was inconclusive because Philippe was altering his handwriting style. Philippe’s lawyer then hired two US experts, including the former national head of FBI handwriting analysis, who certified that Philippe’s handwriting did not match that on the bag, but that three passengers on the plane had similar handwriting, and that three other passengers were altering their handwriting in their handwriting samples.

4) The FBI obtained statements from prison inmates concerning Philippe’s alleged confession during interviews that were not recorded, under circumstances that the FBI refused to describe to Philippe’s lawyer. Philippe’s parents claimed that their lawyer had shown one of the inmate’s stories to be bogus, and suggested that the FBI had offered to reduce inmates’ sentences in exchange for manufacturing evidence against their son. Other inmates maintain that Philippe never confessed.

In December Philippe agreed to plead guilty to the charges. He explained: “I was told that the American justice system would never want to lose face by admitting its errors. The prosecutor harassed me and pressured me enormously. He threatened to bring new charges against me, with falsified evidence if necessary. If you are risking 15 years in jail without parole by pleading not guilty, but with parole by pleading guilty, the choice is easy.”

As France-Amérique, the New York edition of the conservative French daily Le Figaro, dryly commented, “The honor of the American criminal justice system had been saved.”

Philippe was sentenced to five years in jail with parole and a $176,000 fine, to be paid to his employer, the British airline Virgin Atlantic. He was released from jail shortly after the sentencing, but the fine still stands. In addition, the court is keeping $50,000 of the bail posted by his community.

Philippe returned to Aix-les-Bains for Christmas and has vowed to fight the fine, saying, “I’ll never pay, I don’t have the money...I don’t have anything anymore, I’ve lost my job, I’m back to square one.”

He added: “What happened to me was scandalous and unworthy of a great country... After what happened to me, I am never coming back to this country, which I loved and admired. I was persecuted, treated like dirt, maybe because I was French.”

Source: http://www.numbmagazine.com/world_detained.html


So will I be sued if I say that american justice is a complete moronic load of shit <_<

Well I&#39;ve just said it :)

Leonidas.

[balamm]

I was persecuted, treated like dirt, maybe because I was French.”


Yes, most likely. :) Now shut the fuck up

[titey]

Now b, that wasn&#39;t very nice........it was funny though&#33; http://piczonline.com/client/titey/LOL.gif

[leonidas]

Originally posted by balamm@6 December 2003 - 15:53

I was persecuted, treated like dirt, maybe because I was French.”


Yes, most likely. :) Now shut the fuck up
That&#39;s what I was talking about when I said "stupid yannkee" Here we got one&#33; <_<

I&#39;m sure he didn&#39;t even read the story.

[Billy_Dean]

You can&#39;t believe a word the French say, they said they didn&#39;t blow up the Rainbow Warrior.

Then when their secret service was found to have done it, they threatened New Zealand with trade sanctions unless they released the murdering bastards who did it.

I say, if he&#39;s French, he&#39;s probably guilty.


:)

[balamm]

I&#39;m Canadian actually but I too have had my fill of french whining.

I&#39;m kinda surrounded by them here as a matter of fact. My country is run by them even.

Seems if they aren&#39;t drinking, plotting a sneaky underhanded coup, blowing up some tropical island, or whining, they aren&#39;t happy.

It is a fact that france has produced some of the nastiest terrorists the world has seen. Hell, some of them are even employed by the french government. Remember GreenPeace?

Your boy should just keep his mouth shut and do his little bit for world peace maybe.

He did plead guilty after all.
Make all the excuses you want after the fact, claim you were a chickenshit coward that has no convictions, the confession of guilt still stands. :)

[TheDave]

stupid motherfuckers. whats the point who&#39;s ever heard of a french terrorist. they wont work for al-queda until they are made to speak french :angry: :rolleyes:

[balamm]

Are you not aware that there are many french speaking arabs? Yes it&#39;s true.
The international language of ..... ??? (you fill in the blanks :lol: )

[leonidas]

Wow :huh: &#33;

You guys just spent a lot of energy on moving away from the subject.
We are not talking about french policy which is of course bullshit in lots of ways (nuke stuff, ect) but about the usa justice.

@ Ballam : You&#39;re just a basical racist personn or maybe you&#39;re just stupid & unaware of world events which would be an excuse. And I repeat: You should definately read a topic before posting your comments and quoting sentences which doesn&#39;t make sense picked out of their context.

[balamm]

Well maybe me reading it in english and you reading it in ??? is what the problem is.

I think I was right on topic. Sure, call me a rascist because I see what&#39;s real and wrong with your "culture". Maybe if i said all french were fags or had no talent, you&#39;d have a case. But I only pointed out what some of my your countrymen were good at :) , while pointing out that that same problem was a major annoyance in my country too.

You started it anyway bud, with your topic title. And this other thing just cemented the deal >>


So will I be sued if I say that american justice is a complete moronic load of shit&nbsp;

Well I&#39;ve just said it&nbsp;

If you can&#39;t take it, don&#39;t shovel it :D

[leonidas]

-I call you a racist because of what you said about arabians:
Are you not aware that there are many french speaking arabs? Yes it&#39;s true.
The international language of ..... ??? (you fill in the blanks )


You started it anyway bud, with your topic title. And this other thing just cemented the deal >>
-What I said wasn&#39;t racist:
So will I be sued if I say that american justice is a complete moronic load of shit

Well I&#39;ve just said it


Well maybe me reading it in english and you reading it in ??? is what the problem is.
-Ok so let&#39;s read again:
Each point turned out to be either inconclusive or bogus.

1) Philippe admitted to touching the mirror to determine the substance with which the message had been written. However, French police demonstrated that his fingerprints on the message were made when the soap had already dried, at least 13 minutes after the message was left.

2) French police also demonstrated that the position of Philippe’s fingerprints on the bag were consistent with someone holding it to read the message, not someone writing on it. The French police pointed to an unidentified palm print in a position consistent with someone writing on the bag. The FBI did not investigate the palm print.

3) The FBI initially relied on a private lab to certify that Philippe’s handwriting matched that on the bag. When a police lab in Orlando reanalyzed the sample, it claimed that the test was inconclusive because Philippe was altering his handwriting style. Philippe’s lawyer then hired two US experts, including the former national head of FBI handwriting analysis, who certified that Philippe’s handwriting did not match that on the bag, but that three passengers on the plane had similar handwriting, and that three other passengers were altering their handwriting in their handwriting samples.

4) The FBI obtained statements from prison inmates concerning Philippe’s alleged confession during interviews that were not recorded, under circumstances that the FBI refused to describe to Philippe’s lawyer. Philippe’s parents claimed that their lawyer had shown one of the inmate’s stories to be bogus, and suggested that the FBI had offered to reduce inmates’ sentences in exchange for manufacturing evidence against their son. Other inmates maintain that Philippe never confessed.

[Spider_dude]

google this

"french military victories"

[james_bond_rulez]

Originally posted by balamm@6 December 2003 - 16:34
Well maybe me reading it in english and you reading it in ??? is what the problem is.

I think I was right on topic. Sure, call me a rascist because I see what&#39;s real and wrong with your "culture". Maybe if i said all french were fags or had no talent, you&#39;d have a case. But I only pointed out what some of my your countrymen were good at :) , while pointing out that that same problem was a major annoyance in my country too.

You started it anyway bud, with your topic title. And this other thing just cemented the deal >>


So will I be sued if I say that american justice is a complete moronic load of shit

Well I&#39;ve just said it

If you can&#39;t take it, don&#39;t shovel it :D
damn balamm you start to remind me of my french teacher&#33;&#33;&#33;

arrrrggg i still can&#39;t speak good French lol :lol:

[3rd gen noob]

edit: removed pic

:-"

[ibelledthecat]

i agree with leonidas.
balamm stfu. :angry: :angry:

[Lamsey]

Ahem. Please treat this thread as a civilised discussion, and not as a field for racial hate and the proliferation of stfu.

[kAb]

:lol:

if you&#39;re flaming the usa law policy, can I flame the french army policies? :D

dont get me started... :shifty: :D

[james_bond_rulez]

wow balamm got soooo flamed ;)

oops i just farted :o

[Loomis]

D&#39;accord, Liam.

FTCDG, Balaam&#33;

Leonidas, ne t&#39;inquiète pas de ces niaiseux......je suis 100% en accord avec toi, le système juridique des États, c&#39;est une blague. Ils viennent d&#39;envoyer un canadien a sa mort, ou au moins a la torture, en Syrie. Sans raison, non plus.....bande de colons&#33;

J&#39;arrête ici, avant de me mettre dans le trouble....


If anyone would like a translation of the above, PM me and I&#39;ll gladly do so......the grammer&#39;s not quite proper enough for online translators to do it justice.

[james_bond_rulez]

Originally posted by Loomis@6 December 2003 - 19:40
D&#39;accord, Liam.

FTCDG, Balaam&#33;

Leonidas, ne t&#39;inquiète pas de ces niaiseux......je suis 100% en accord avec toi, le système juridique des États, c&#39;est une blague. Ils viennent d&#39;envoyer un canadien a sa mort, ou au moins a la torture, en Syrie. Sans raison, non plus.....bande de colons&#33;

J&#39;arrête ici, avant de me mettre dans le trouble....


If anyone would like a translation of the above, PM me and I&#39;ll gladly do so......the grammer&#39;s not quite proper enough for online translators to do it justice.
why dont you just speak Klingon we&#39;d all understand :lol:

[leonidas]

Originally posted by kAb@6 December 2003 - 20:05
:lol:

if you&#39;re flaming the usa law policy, can I flame the french army policies?&nbsp; :D

dont get me started... :shifty:&nbsp; :D
Of course you can. You&#39;re free to tell everybody about the highness strenght valiancy and exeptional morality of our army and politicians :lol: :lol:

@Loomis: Merci de ton soutient :) Faut pas leur en vouloir. Ils n&#39;ont probablement pas été à l&#39;école très longtemps. :lol: héhé...Tabarnak&#33;

@3rd gen noob: Could you reduce the dimension of your stfu please ? It makes the board dificult to read. thx in advance :D

[m.lawrence]

We all live in glass houses.I lived in Qc. thirty some years and never felt more like I belonged after I finally moved out of there.I have absolutely no sympathy for the french who whine about trampled civil rights.However,I also understand the nesessity of the "quiet revolution".The American&#39;s? Don&#39;t get me started.But who among us and our nation&#39;s do not have some nasty karma due? U.S. law policy sucks? Show me a country who&#39;s laws are fair to everyone. Is it fair that in many countries in the world you can be executed for what you think?Or who you like to f**k?Fortunately for most of us the laws of Saudi Arabia or Singapore do not affect us at all.Iran passed a death sentence on Madonna years ago for that lovely tune "Papa don&#39;t preach".But do we seriously care what the Iranians pass in terms of laws?The "problem" with U.S. policy is that it affects many people in the world,not just Americans.But since the Americans can back up their policies with unrivaled military strength,there&#39;s little that can be done to dissuade them.

[Rock Tonic Juice Magic]

http://www.notbored.org/uncle-sam.jpg

[internet.news]

...

[leonidas]

Originally posted by m.lawrence@6 December 2003 - 22:11
We all live in glass houses.I lived in Qc. thirty some years and never felt more like I belonged after I finally moved out of there.I have absolutely no sympathy for the french who whine about trampled civil rights.However,I also understand the nesessity of the "quiet revolution".The American&#39;s? Don&#39;t get me started.But who among us and our nation&#39;s do not have some nasty karma due? U.S. law policy sucks? Show me a country who&#39;s laws are fair to everyone. Is it fair that in many countries in the world you can be executed for what you think?Or who you like to f**k?Fortunately for most of us the laws of Saudi Arabia or Singapore do not affect us at all.Iran passed a death sentence on Madonna years ago for that lovely tune "Papa don&#39;t preach".But do we seriously care what the Iranians pass in terms of laws?The "problem" with U.S. policy is that it affects many people in the world,not just Americans.But since the Americans can back up their policies with unrivaled military strength,there&#39;s little that can be done to dissuade them.
The point is that lots of US people like to boast about how much freedom and justice is important and respected in their country, which is not the case.

Comparing the us laws to the feodals one in use in Iran..... :( Everybody knows that Iran is not a democraty, but they are still people who doesn&#39;t know about the US unfair system. & most of western european countries law are by far better than us law. ( I speack only about US penal laws, because Usa national commercial laws are pretty good )

[balamm]

"blah blah blah.... "

"It only happens in the USA.. Blah blah blah... "

You don&#39;t give a shit about this guy. Admit it. This is just an opportunity for you to jump on on your soapbox and show how much better you think the french are.

Grow up&#33;&#33;

It does happen everywhere.

I&#39;ve been jailed unfairly even in Canada but I didn&#39;t take it to an international forum and start whining that I was being discriminated against because of some minority bullshit.
I was in the wrong place, in the wrong company, at the wrong time.
It happens.

Damn I wish I was some poor, misunderstood, maligned frenchman then, if that&#39;s all it takes to have people bail you out of jail and pay your legal defense.
I think I&#39;d still stop short of calling down an entire nation because of my stupidity though.

But, no..... You wanna go to war over it. Keep it up&#33; This is how it starts.

Tell me I&#39;m wrong about you, the guy with the military dictator for an avatar&#33;

And what&#39;s the connection here?


The bravery of Leonidas and the treason of Ephialtes impressed Hitler, asit does almost every schoolboy. The incident is referred to again in MeinKampf (Chap. VIII, Vol. I), where Hitler compares the German troops thatfell in France and Flanders to the Greeks at Thermopylae, the treachery ofEphialtes being suggested as the prototype of the defeatist policy of theGerman politicians towards the end of the Great War.


You got some shit up your sleeve boy, try to deny that http://klboard.ath.cx/style_images/winter/icon7.gif

[leonidas]

Originally posted by balamm@7 December 2003 - 01:39
"blah blah blah.... "

"It only happens in the USA.. Blah blah blah... "

You don&#39;t give a shit about this guy. Admit it. This is just an opportunity for you to jump on on your soapbox and show how much better you think the french are.

Grow up&#33;&#33;

It does happen everywhere.

I&#39;ve been jailed unfairly even in Canada but I didn&#39;t take it to an international forum and start whining that I was being discriminated against because of some minority bullshit.
I was in the wrong place, in the wrong company, at the wrong time.
It happens.

Damn I wish I was some poor, misunderstood, maligned frenchman then, if that&#39;s all it takes to have people bail you out of jail and pay your legal defense.
I think I&#39;d still stop short of calling down an entire nation because of my stupidity though.

But, no..... You wanna go to war over it. Keep it up&#33; This is how it starts.

Tell me I&#39;m wrong about you, the guy with the military dictator for an avatar&#33;

And what&#39;s the connection here?


The bravery of Leonidas and the treason of Ephialtes impressed Hitler, asit does almost every schoolboy. The incident is referred to again in MeinKampf (Chap. VIII, Vol. I), where Hitler compares the German troops thatfell in France and Flanders to the Greeks at Thermopylae, the treachery ofEphialtes being suggested as the prototype of the defeatist policy of theGerman politicians towards the end of the Great War.


You got some shit up your sleeve boy, try to deny that http://klboard.ath.cx/style_images/winter/icon7.gif
Common&#33; This is not the first story of injustice you&#39;ve heard which happend in USA

Did you know that a guy who kill someone and a nother who steal twice a pizza can get the same penalty? Yes because you get a penalty for repeating your crime. It&#39;s written on the texts, and applicated. Such thingdoesn&#39;t exist in France for example. I don&#39;t mean that french law are that great, but they are not that unfair.

I quoted this story because I saw the guy on the news in France and the guy could be french or not, it wouln&#39;t change anything to my point. I&#39;m not crying & saying "you bad american people why are you so malicious aginst us? :( "

My former avatar :http://212.234.185.8/IMG/arton362.jpg is a photo of Charles de Gaules. This guy wasn&#39;t a dictator at all browse your books deeper please&#33;


And for my name "Leonidas", it&#39;s just a very common one in Belgium. I guess you see ghosts everywhere <_<

[TheDave]

what happened to all those brits in that american concentration camp (in cuba i think). i havent heard anything for ages? :huh:

[balamm]

Oh the irony :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:


I guess you see ghosts everywhere

http://members.shaw.ca/userkey/leonidas.jpg


How old are you ? 14? 15?

I&#39;m done with this one, you don&#39;t have the capacity to have an adult conversation.

[TheDave]

admit your wrong or stop posting. it&#39;s more dignified

[atiVidia]

fuck the patriot act

fuck all the judges

fuck bush

fuck all bastards who think terrorism is a big deal


cuz its NOT

the code is shit

its all SHIT

BUSH IS SHIT&#33;&#33;&#33;

and also, sharman networks is gay, and the site which took over klite should be shut down&#33;

everyone, switch to direct connect. RIAA cant bust u cuz its encrypted, and its FUCKING AWESOME&#33; DC++ here&#33; (http://www.neo-modus.com)

[TheDave]

rofl. we&#39;re just here for the free nibbles

[balamm]

Read this leonidas. All of it&#33;&#33;


Some political refugees continued to be subject to administrative detention measures. Criminal proceedings were under way against conscientious objectors to the national service laws. A trial of 138 people breached international norms. Reports were received of ill-treatment and excessive use of force by law enforcement officers, and of ill-treatment by prison guards. Some people held for several years under a provisional detention regime were reportedly subjected to prolonged isolation. Criminal proceedings continued against police officers and gendarmes involved in ill-treatment and fatal shootings.
&nbsp; &nbsp; In January, shortly after fatal shootings by police officers of unarmed civilians, a draft law was introduced to create the Conseil supérieur de la déontologie et de la sécurité (csds) to oversee the working and implementation of codes of practice governing the different police forces and the gendarmerie. The Minister of Justice presented a series of draft laws aiming at a radical overhaul of the justice system. These included measures to confer a greater degree of independence on public prosecutors and to reinforce the principle of presumption of innocence. In May a new law on rights of entry and residence of foreign nationals and on the right of asylum came into force. It was widely criticized as too restrictive, particularly as regards access to asylum procedures.

&nbsp; &nbsp; An agreement on the future status of New Caledonia was signed in May by Prime Minister Lionel Jospin and leaders of the main parties in New Caledonia. The Nouméa agreement established a gradual transfer of power from the French state to the Pacific territory and was endorsed by a November referendum.

&nbsp; &nbsp; The European Committee for the Prevention of Torture and Inhuman or Degrading Treatment or Punishment pub- lished a report in May on a visit conducted in 1996 to detention centres in Paris, Marseille and Montpellier. It expressed concern about ill-treatment of suspects immediately after arrest and in police custody and described conditions in parts of Paris-La Santé prison as “inhuman and degrading”.

&nbsp; &nbsp; In May the un Committee against Torture examined France&#39;s second periodic report on its implementation of the un Convention against Torture and Other Cruel, Inhuman or Degrading Treatment or Punishment. The Committee was “seriously” concerned that the police were handing people over to officials of countries where there was a substantial likelihood they would be at risk of torture. It also expressed concern about a number of allegations of ill-treatment of suspects by police forces and the gendarmerie during arrest and interrogation. It recommended that the authorities give “the greatest possible attention” to allegations of violence and ill-treatment by law enforcement officers and to ensuring that judicial inquiries were impartial and punishment appropriate. It stressed that the authorities should also ensure that judicial inquiries into every reasonable allegation of torture and ill-treatment were prompt and systematic.

&nbsp; &nbsp; Measures of administrative detention (assignation à résidence) were used against some political refugees. In April Salah Ben Hédi Ben Hassen Karker, a Tunisian political refugee who had been detained under an order of assignation à résidence for four years but who faced no criminal charges in France (see Amnesty International Report 1998), left Digne, where he was being confined, to see his family in Paris. He was arrested while taking his daughter to school and sentenced to a six-month suspended prison term by the Correctional Court of Pontoise, Val d&#39;Oise, for infringing the detention order. In May the un Committee against Torture raised the case of Salah Karker&#39;s long detention without trial with the French government.

&nbsp; &nbsp; Criminal proceedings were pursued against conscientious objectors failing to conform to the national service laws, but the majority of objectors remained at liberty. A law enacted in 1997 providing for the total suspension of compulsory national service by 2002 (see Amnesty International Report 1998) meant that only male citizens born before 1979 re-mained liable for call-up. There was still no provision for conscientious objection developed during military service and the alternative civilian service available to recognized conscientious objectors remained, at 20 months, twice the length of ordinary military service. Refusal to perform military or alternative service remained punishable by terms of imprisonment.

&nbsp; &nbsp; The right to a fair trial was denied to 138 people in a mass trial that opened in September in a gymnasium for prison staff close to the remand prison of Fleury-Mérogis, Essonne. The defendants, detained during mass arrests in 1994 and 1995, were accused of belonging to support networks for Algerian armed opposition groups and charged with “criminal association. with a terrorist enterprise”. Twenty-five were still in custody at the opening of the trial before the 11th Correctional Court of Paris. Another 34 had been released for lack of evidence after spending several weeks or months in provisional detention. A small minority of defendants was accused of trafficking in, or possession of, weapons. Most denied any connection with “terrorist” groups; none was charged with any specific act of violence. On the first day of the trial, about 50 of the defence lawyers refused to continue to appear before the court. Their request for a dismissal of the proceedings and retrial was supported by the Bar Council of Paris and the legal-aid lawyers it represented. The request was based on, among other things, the belief that the large number of defendants, the consequent huge size and expense of the 50,000-page case file, and the restrictions placed on access to the whole case file and on the period of time during which it was available for study, made a proper defence of their individual clients impossible. Judgment was reserved until January 1999.

&nbsp; &nbsp; Reports of ill-treatment by law enforcement officers, and of ill-treatment by prison guards continued to be received. In many cases the victims were of non-European ethnic origin. In January there were reports that eight detainees of North African origin, including three minors, had been severely beaten by seven guards at the prison of Grasse, Alpes-Maritimes, on New Year&#39;s Eve. Medical examinations reportedly confirmed the detainees&#39; allegations. Administrative and judicial inquiries were opened and the prison guards were provisionally detained. They were subsequently charged with committing violent acts while in positions of authority, suspended from work, and forbidden from approaching the prison to meet victims or witnesses.

&nbsp; &nbsp; There were a number of allegations of ill-treatment of asylum-seekers and undocumented foreign nationals, some of whom were returned to countries where they faced persecution. In September, three Sri Lankans _ Narendran Yogeswaran, Nadarajah Vijeyalalitha and Mylvaganan Arunan _ claimed they were kicked, punched, handcuffed and muzzled with tape by French police while being forcibly expelled from France. Nadarajah Vijeyalalitha claimed that the tape was removed from her mouth after an hour, but when she cried out a pillow was pressed over her face and the tape replaced. She said she fainted from pain. An inquiry was initiated but the outcome was not known at the end of the year.

&nbsp; &nbsp; Some prisoners were reportedly held in prolonged isolation. In November Ilich Ramírez Sánchez (known as “Carlos”), who was held in the remand prison of Paris-La Santé, went on hunger strike in protest at his total isolation, allegedly since his arrest in 1994. He had been sentenced to life imprisonment for murder in 1997, but remained under investigation in connection with other alleged crimes. Joëlle Aubron and Nathalie Ménigon _ two members of the group Action directe (Direct Action) (see Amnesty International Report 1989) who were still being provisionally detained at Fleury-Mérogis prison despite having been definitively sentenced to life imprisonment in 1994 _ were also reportedly subjected to strict and prolonged isolation. Nathalie Ménigon was reported to be suffering from severe depression and to have suffered a heart attack.

&nbsp; &nbsp; There were new reports of excessive use of force by gendarmes and police officers. In March about 60 Chinese “boat people”, who had taken refuge in New Caledonia in November 1997 and were being held in a military hangar at Tontouta airport in Nouméa, staged a two-day rooftop protest against their imminent expulsion to China. Among them were young children and a baby. The protest came to an end when gendarmes attempted to dislodge them using tear gas, to which the refugees reportedly responded by throwing stones and other projectiles. The gendarmes then opened fire with rubber bullets. Nine refugees were taken to the Gaston Bourret hospital in Nouméa. Two, whose injuries were life-threatening, required intensive surgery. Several hours later the French government suspended deportation of the boat people and ordered their release from the hangar.

&nbsp; &nbsp; In August administrative and judicial inquiries were opened after Eric Benfatima was shot dead in Tarbes, Hautes-Pyrénées, by an off-duty officer of the Brigade Anticriminalité, Anti-crime Brigade. Eric Benfatima reportedly approached the officer, who was not in uniform, and asked him for a cigarette. The officer replied that begging was banned in Tarbes. Following an argument, the officer allegedly chased him into an alley and shot him three or four times with a revolver. The officer was provisionally detained and charged with murder.

&nbsp; &nbsp; In December, 17-year-old Habib Ould Mohamed was shot and fatally wounded in disputed circumstances in Toulouse by a police officer who suspected him and his friend of attempted car theft. Habib Mohamed, who was unarmed, managed to stagger away, but was not pursued. His body was later found by a passer-by. The officers on the patrol did not report firing their weapons when they returned to their station, as required by law, and the acting Minister of the Interior stated that “fundamental rules were not respected”. It was also unclear why the officers had failed to follow or provide assistance to Habib Mohamed after the shooting. The police sergeant who fired the fatal shot was placed under investigation for manslaughter. Habib Mohamed&#39;s death and the subsequent release from detention, under judicial control, of the police sergeant involved provoked a wave of riots in Toulouse.

&nbsp; &nbsp; Judicial inquiries continued into cases of ill-treatment and fatal shootings by gendarmes and police officers in previous years. In April the criminal chamber of the Court of Cassation rejected an appeal by the police officer who shot and killed Todor Bogdanoviç, a Romani child, in 1995. The decision upheld the December 1997 finding of an Aix-en-Provence appeal court that there was sufficient doubt that the officer&#39;s action had fulfilled the criteria for “legitimate defence” to justify sending the case for trial before the Court of Assizes of Alpes-Maritimes (see Amnesty International Reports 1996 and 1998). The trial opened in December. The prosecutor, who concurred that the officer had fired at the car from behind and had therefore not acted in “legitimate defence”, asked the jury to consider only a nominal prison sentence, accompanied by suspension. The Court of Assizes acquitted the officer.

&nbsp; &nbsp; In July the Grenoble Court of Appeal overturned the November 1997 decision of the Correctional Court of Valence to acquit the gendarme who shot dead Franck Moret in 1993 (see Amnesty International Report 1998). Sentencing the officer to an 18-month suspended prison term, a small sum of compensation and court costs, the Court held that although the gendarme was entitled under French law to shoot to stop the car, the fatal shot had been fired in a “particularly imprudent and clumsy way from the viewpoint of height and direction”. The officer&#39;s appeal was pending at the end of the year.

&nbsp; &nbsp; In March the Ministry of the Interior wrote to Amnesty International, confirming the length of time Salah Karker had been detained and the reason for the assignation à résidence, but stating that his material conditions were “perfectly satis-factory” and there was no reason to review the situation. The Ministry did not respond to Amnesty International&#39;s concerns that Salah Karker had never been charged with a criminal offence in France and had never been given an effective opportunity to be heard by a judicial authority.

&nbsp; &nbsp; In March Amnesty International wrote to the Minister of Justice to request information about the progress of inquiries into the assault by prison staff on inmates at Grasse prison. In November Amnesty International requested information from the Minister of Justice about the alleged prolonged isolation of Ilich Ramírez Sánchez, Joëlle Aubron and Nathalie Ménigon and expressed its belief that prolonged isolation can have a detrimental effect on the physical and mental health of prisoners, in some cases amounting to cruel, inhuman or degrading treatment or punishment. In December Amnesty International wrote to the Minister of Justice to express its concern that the trial of 138 alleged members of Algerian support networks breached international norms governing fair trial. The organization raised the issues of “equality of arms” between defence and prosecution and the length of provisional detention. No replies had been received to any of these letters by the end of the year.

&nbsp; &nbsp; In May Amnesty International submitted to the un Committee against Torture, and to the French government, a report entitled France: Excessive force _ a summary of Amnesty International&#39;s concerns about shootings and ill-treatment. This described a number of individual cases and underlined the problem of effective impunity in the way they were handled by the courts. It also found that the use of rubber bullets against the Chinese “boat people” in New Caledonia had been disproportionate and excessive.

&nbsp; &nbsp; In December Amnesty International sent an observer to the trial of the police officer who shot dead Todor Bogdanoviç in 1995. The observer stated that the trial resembled the “chronicle of acquittal foretold”. The President of the court did not show strict impartiality and the extent of bias displayed by the state prosecutor in support of the defence case was a cause for concern.

&nbsp; &nbsp; The organization sought information from the authorities about the progress of investigations into incidents of shootings, killings and ill-treatment.

&nbsp; &nbsp; Amnesty International continued to express concern that, because of its punitive length, civilian service did not provide an acceptable alternative to military service and that there was still no provision for conscientious objection developed during military service.


Nice country YOU live in :)

[james_bond_rulez]

aahahahahahahhh balamm fuck you i fell out of my chair lol :lol: :lol: :lol:

[LTJBukem]

Originally posted by james_bond_rulez@7 December 2003 - 01:41
aahahahahahahhh balamm fuck you i fell out of my chair lol :lol: :lol: :lol:
Can you explain what it is you found funny?

You&#39;re always following Balamm around, kissing his ass. Why is that?

[james_bond_rulez]

Originally posted by LTJBukem+7 December 2003 - 01:49--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td>QUOTE (LTJBukem @ 7 December 2003 - 01:49)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'> <!--QuoteBegin-james_bond_rulez@7 December 2003 - 01:41
aahahahahahahhh balamm fuck you i fell out of my chair lol :lol:&nbsp; :lol:&nbsp; :lol:
Can you explain what it is you found funny?

You&#39;re always following Balamm around, kissing his ass. Why is that? [/b][/quote]
err? why do YOU follow me around and kiss my ass? i find that strange :blink:

[TheDave]

i read half of that and got bored. why dont you select important bits instead of quoting a whole page.

ive heard it all before except with america being used instead of france... ok thats a childish arguement but its true. and if you ask me, the french armies efforts for peace are better than the americans effort for a peice

[atiVidia]

you kno? that was too FUCKING much&#33;


dont put so much shit onto the forum&#33; NO ONE WANTED TO READ ALL OF THAT

friggin republi-errr-bitchin losers...

fuckem all. its all useless

[leonidas]

Originally posted by balamm@7 December 2003 - 02:40
Read this leonidas. All of it&#33;&#33;


[b]Some political (...) provision for conscientious objection developed during military service.


Nice country YOU live in :)
Well good work. You show me news I didn&#39;t know. But :

-Some were just "usual" stuff, like cop violent acts. I think this happened in every country.

-French prisons are really crap compared to other european countries. But please just have a look on the american one&#33; Even some are managed by private compagnies. People go to jail for 2 years because they have been caught smoking crack or even cannabis...ect. I really think you can&#39;t compare french justice and prisons with american ones.

About political refugees I totally agree with you. France act like shit. That&#39;s a fact. Our fucking governers want us to make lots of children while we could just welcome those political refugees. But don&#39;t forget one thing: racists are many in France. During last presidencial elections the extreme right wing mother fucker "Jean Marie Le Pen" had 20 percent of the votes. ( Hé hé you forgot to mention that :lol: )

You know I don&#39;t really wanna flamme (Even if it&#39;s funny) I just think it&#39;s important to denounce when things are working like shit.

[k-liteuserintheworld]

balamm stfu :angry: , he is entitled to post this topic, I found it interesting


It is a fact that france has produced some of the nastiest terrorists the world has seen. Hell, some of them are even employed by the french government. Remember GreenPeace? I think the biggest terrorist at the moment is bush, to be a terorist you have to strike terror into the lives of people and he has done plenty of that.

[leonidas]

Originally posted by k&#045;liteuserintheworld@7 December 2003 - 03:25
balamm stfu :angry: , he is entitled to post this topic, I found it interesting


It is a fact that france has produced some of the nastiest terrorists the world has seen. Hell, some of them are even employed by the french government. Remember GreenPeace? I think the biggest terrorist at the moment is bush, to be a terorist you have to strike terror into the lives of people and he has done plenty of that.
I &#39;ve herd too little about the rainbow warrior. But it wouldn&#39;t surprise me that this happened

[wormless]

hello just testing

[Pitbul]

Originally posted by leonidas@6 December 2003 - 07:45
So will I be sued if I say that american justice is a complete moronic load of shit <_<

Well I&#39;ve just said it :)

Leonidas.
wow and on the internet too u must be proud you pansy. he was french and 99 percent probably guilty. anyways what does it matter the French are basically pansy&#39;s. we help them but when we ask for their help they deny us it like stuck up snobs. haha anyone played Armed and Dangerous? theirs a part in it where the little blind dude telephatically makes the enemies think their french suddenly the enemies drop their guns and take off running. i started laughing really hard. to America now French are about as low on the nice people to consider as Suddam hussien. even Turkey was nice enough to let us bring out wounded soldiers to their hospitals. Americans may come off as assholes but hey we&#39;re americans we dont sugar coat anything we say. we&#39;re blatant about everything. when we went to war we did have any fake propoganda saying well be taken care of given plenty of food and water aswell as ammo. sure their was commericials telling us to jion the army to support our country but thats about it other then that when we went into war the rest of the people said "hey ur going out their and u prolly will die good luck". America is tough and if ur coming from an outside Country and ur no tough chances are ur not gonna make it here.

[Abe]

starter up steve.com LOL look what happends when the french fires nukes hahaha (http://starterupsteve.servepics.com/swf/endoftheworld.html)?


:lol:

then russia . FOR THE MOTHER LAND&#33;&#33;&#33;

[Tasty]

For sale: 1 French military rifle, never used and only dropped once. Get it now before it&#39;s gone&#33;

[shinzuiski]

i hear english was a rip off from the french language ? or was it the othe way around ??

anyways, both french and english are shitty languages :lol:

awwwww well, at least the swat team didnt break threw the bathrrom window steel his soap then tell him to *GET ON THE GROUND*

[fkdup74]

Originally posted by k&#045;liteuserintheworld@6 December 2003 - 18:25
I think the biggest terrorist at the moment is bush, to be a terorist you have to strike terror into the lives of people and he has done plenty of that.
wow, i always miss the good threads
wtf is up with all this bush/america bashing?
hey, i gotta live here, millions of us do
could things be better? yeah
is bush a terrorist? BS (not even worthy of a reply)
is american justice f*cked sometimes? guess it depends on which end youre on
(ive been on both ends) no comment :P

[Sam Fishstick]

french suck

[TheDave]

yeah the french are cowards, instead of bombing the shit out of a country then invading with 140000 troops. where those cowardly french send a mere 4000 to halt civil war in the ivory coast

[balamm]

Troops in Ivory Coast
This will be the second-largest French military intervention in Africa this year. Paris currently has some 9,000 troops deployed in Africa. Since its 1964 assault on the former French colony of Gabon, French imperialism has intervened militarily in Africa about once a year up to the late 1990s.&nbsp;

To protect French investments in the Ivory Coast, Paris has deployed some 4,000 troops to back the regime of Laurent Gbagbo in that West African country.


well if it doesn&#39;t work out, they can always turn it into a nucler test site :lol: :lol:

:P

[Lamsey]

Originally posted by shinzuiski@7 December 2003 - 06:09
i hear english was a rip off from the french language ? or was it the othe way around ??
They are both derived from Latin with many Greek influences, as are many Western European languages.

[leonidas]

Originally posted by balamm@7 December 2003 - 13:19

Troops in Ivory Coast
This will be the second-largest French military intervention in Africa this year. Paris currently has some 9,000 troops deployed in Africa. Since its 1964 assault on the former French colony of Gabon, French imperialism has intervened militarily in Africa about once a year up to the late 1990s.

To protect French investments in the Ivory Coast, Paris has deployed some 4,000 troops to back the regime of Laurent Gbagbo in that West African country.


well if it doesn&#39;t work out, they can always turn it into a nucler test site :lol: :lol:

:P
That&#39;s true. France has some economical interests in Africa and if our army go there, it&#39;s just in order to protect those economical interests, not to help the poor black people there. It&#39;s just the same thing like USA with Afganistan, Irak, and probably soon Cuba when Castro will die.

But this wasn&#39;t the initial subject I don&#39;t wan&#39;t to participate in a theard entitled "France versus USA", it doesn&#39;t make sense. We are all kinda the same people. Americans are the hell fatter of course :lol: but it doesn&#39;t matter.