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junkyardking
12-12-2003, 03:16 AM
*Warning Adult content*

http://melbourne.indymedia.org/uploads/iraqiwar.wmv

From what i can tell it's genuine tv rip off cnn although someone has edited near the end so it would be interesting to see what he said between the gap that was edited.

It does look bad the guy was wounded and they shot to kill. :( :angry:

The laughing and being proud of killing someone certainly raises questions, it's pretty sick actualy.

Alex H
12-12-2003, 03:54 AM
That is fucking sick. "Yeah, let's do it again!", fucking sick moron.

Arn't there rules about shooting incapacitated enemy soldiers? Could they have just left him there and taken him as a POW after the battle?

Perhaps the "Ahm gonna kill me a towlhead" mentality is to strong...

mogadishu
12-12-2003, 04:13 AM
that is fucking disgusting. Brainwashed... people arent born like that. How can u actually like killing?... my god, i am ashamed to be american.

mogadishu
12-12-2003, 04:17 AM
Originally posted by Alex H@11 December 2003 - 22:54
That is fucking sick. "Yeah, let's do it again!", fucking sick moron.

Arn't there rules about shooting incapacitated enemy soldiers? Could they have just left him there and taken him as a POW after the battle?

Perhaps the "Ahm gonna kill me a towlhead" mentality is to strong...
and i doubt it was much of a battle at that point if there was a camera and they were cheering and relaxed.

james_bond_rulez
12-12-2003, 04:25 AM
the guy/guys who shot him should be courtmartialed and sentenced

this clip is evidence now <_<

fucking american soldiers :angry:

free iraqis? nah, killing them is more like it :angry:

junkyardking
12-12-2003, 05:12 AM
here&#39;s a transcript of the full episode http://cnnstudentnews.cnn.com/TRANSCRIPTS/0310/26/cp.00.html






U.S. Marines, Sergeant Riddle&#39;s team, searching an industrial area near Baghdad. Along the road they encounter Iraqis who point their AK-47s at the Marines.

RIDDLE: One of my guys got up on his hood and took the first guy out, shot him right in the heart. And he dropped instantly.

from the clip
CROWLEY: Wounded, another Iraqi writhes on the ground next to his gun. The Marines kill him -- then cheer.

RIDDLE: Like, man, you guys are dead now, you know. But it was a good feeling.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Fire&#33;

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Yeah&#33;

CROWLEY: When the battle is over and you are still standing, the adrenalin rush is huge.

RIDDLE: I mean, afterwards you&#39;re like, hell, yeah, that was awesome. Let&#39;s do it again.

*IN bold what seems was edited out of the clip.


From what i could see the guy wasnt even reaching for his gun. :angry:

james_bond_rulez
12-12-2003, 05:23 AM
the US soldiers should be tried as war criminals

Alex H
12-12-2003, 06:23 AM
Ha&#33; Yeah right, like ANY American soldier is going to be tried for war crimes in Iraq

kAb
12-12-2003, 07:23 AM
interesting.

Dont know how I feel about this :mellow:

Going to have to think about it some more.

Rappy
12-12-2003, 08:34 AM
i donno thats pretty horrible fucking red neck ya see he teeth yep red neck well ok mabe he is just an ass but then the bastards cheering him on shoud be beaten too i see why the people in iraq hate us so much

3rd gen noob
12-12-2003, 09:26 AM
gung ho stupid american solders

not a huge surprise <_<

CornerPocket
12-12-2003, 03:05 PM
Although I am an American, I do not approve of that. I&#39;m sure that takes place on both sides of the battlefield. Those that do wrong will have their day........ ;)

Rat Faced
12-12-2003, 03:42 PM
Every army in the world commits "war crimes" in times of war.

Whether your the victor or the loser is immaterial...If the evidence comes to light, the perpetrators should be dealt with in the same way.

That, in my book, was murder...pure and simple.

The guys should be tried for it, and as it happened in Iraq, it should be dealt with under Iraqi Law.....wonder if they&#39;d be laughing then?

Sparkle1984
12-12-2003, 05:20 PM
This is terrible&#33; :angry:
It shows that they are not much better than their enemies.

james_bond_rulez
12-12-2003, 05:37 PM
Originally posted by CornerPocket@12 December 2003 - 15:05
Although I am an American, I do not approve of that.&nbsp; I&#39;m sure that takes place on both sides of the battlefield.&nbsp; Those that do wrong will have their day........ ;)
IN COURT&#33;&#33;

but dumb are these guys? they know they are being videotaped, they know it&#39;s against the rules of engagement.

The guys was clearly down and unable to defend himself and the fuckng marines know it.

Still they killed him like some sort of "entertainment".

and the dude said it&#39;s was in the moment of head, that it was adrainline rush and teammates egged him on. That&#39;s all excuses, what bullshit.

that&#39;s unforgiveable.

A video camera is more powerful than a gun <_<

billyfridge
12-13-2003, 03:10 AM
What have we got here, a forum full of &#39;do gooders&#39;? the soldiers in Iraq are trained to kill, thats what they DO. they haven&#39;t got the same mental attitude as we have, we&#39;re not seeing mates and colleages killed before our eyes, it makes a big difference. do you think the Iraqi&#39;s don&#39;t enjoy killing the alliance soldiers and laughing and mutilating their bodies, think again. war is war and it&#39;s never &#39;nice&#39; <_<

james_bond_rulez
12-13-2003, 03:36 AM
Originally posted by billyfridge@13 December 2003 - 03:10
What have we got here, a forum full of &#39;do gooders&#39;? the soldiers in Iraq are trained to kill, thats what they DO. they haven&#39;t got the same mental attitude as we have, we&#39;re not seeing mates and colleages killed before our eyes, it makes a big difference. do you think the Iraqi&#39;s don&#39;t enjoy killing the alliance soldiers and laughing and mutilating their bodies, think again. war is war and it&#39;s never &#39;nice&#39; <_<
and who are you to justify what they did? sure they are trained but that was unneccessary killing and that was against the rules of engagement, which clearly states to engage only if threatened. Those soldiers are hardly "threatened". They could&#39;ve taken him prisoner and as a POW but instead they decide to shoot him for a little fun.

totally unacceptable behaviour.

the way i see it it&#39;s murder not millitary service.

not honorable at all <_<

clocker
12-13-2003, 05:21 AM
Originally posted by james_bond_rulez@12 December 2003 - 20:36

and who are you to justify what they did?
And who are you to condemn them?

Silly way to begin a post there, James.

james_bond_rulez
12-13-2003, 05:55 AM
Originally posted by clocker+13 December 2003 - 05:21--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td>QUOTE (clocker @ 13 December 2003 - 05:21)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'> <!--QuoteBegin-james_bond_rulez@12 December 2003 - 20:36

and who are you to justify what they did?
And who are you to condemn them?

Silly way to begin a post there, James. [/b][/quote]
nobody will probably "condemn" them, if not, ever. I am not a judge in a millitary court handling this case. But if I get the chance to be one you bet ur ass I will take a hard look at the VIDEOTAPED evidence.

how many times have US soilders, commanders be wrongfully accused or escaped convictions due to lack of evidence?

A commander leading a group of marines protecting an US embassy has been ordered to evacuate all personnel, including the embassador, to safety. They are pinned down and forced to barricade themselves and waiting orders to engage. There are sniper fires coming from buildings, and there are angry mobs protesting us foreign policies. Situations are tense and suddenly there are enemy fire coming from the somewhere. The commander, peeked to see if the fire was coming from the mob, was shot in the shoulder. In a panic, without confirming where the shot came from, he radioed command center and reported enemy fire from the crowd and requested permission to engage. He shouted "waste the motherfuckers", the marines opened fire into the crowd, killing hundreds of innocent ppl.

Later, the commander was charged with war crime and important evidence, a video tape from the embassy has been taken away and now missing. Blah blah blah, in the end, the commander was proven not guilty and the CIA agent who took the videotape was found guilty concealing important evidence.

my point is, there are rules we live by, I dont care you are a civilian or a millitary personnel. You committ a crime and it&#39;s caught on videotape, it&#39;s going to stand up in a trial. In this case everything is caught on tape and there is really little ground to say otherwise. A crime is a crime i dont care how you justify it. U americans may feel protective about ur forces but when something like this happens, it&#39;s important to see the truth and not just defend ur american pride so blindly <_<

Alex H
12-15-2003, 12:08 AM
I saw that movie too. It was a tense situation. THAT tape looked like the soldiers were out shooting bottles and cans on grandpa&#39;s farm.

Pitbul
12-15-2003, 12:29 AM
most of you critisize war as though u have experienced it. how fucking unbelievedable is right. what understanding do you have of war if u have never been in it? most fo you are to pussy to go jion the army let alone feel what they feel when they see their own friends killed of course they are gonna feel the Anger and feeling of Vengance, was it wrong? haha i think the answer is pretty clear but saying "Stupid AMERICA Soldier" eat a dick and fuck you all who said that. i dont judge peoples action until i expeirence their actions first hand. especially in something such as War. all of these tree huggers crying saying how wrong it is but yet have never had to go to war. i been on this forum and i mistly see Anti American thread and hate. and until lately i been getting Anti every other country who has someone Bad mouthing the country i live in. i used to never think down upon people in Great Britian or Iraq. i never said Stupid UK Soldier or Dumb Towel Heads. i would say Fuck Osama not Fuck Afganastan but its changing. its sad to have me being 16 year old seeing such so called "Mature Adults" from so called Civil countrys who think their better then us acting like such assholes. judge us onna few peoples actions and stereotypes, then expect us to judge you no diffrent. for now on im gonna think anyone who is from England is an over acting drunk asshole who starts fights in stadiums hurting innocent people, and that every people who comes from Iraq or Afgan is a Terrorist Towel head who should be shot on sight.

james_bond_rulez
12-15-2003, 12:35 AM
Originally posted by Pitbul@15 December 2003 - 00:29
most of you critisize war as though u have experienced it. how fucking unbelievedable is right. what understanding do you have of war if u have never been in it? most fo you are to pussy to go jion the army let alone feel what they feel when they see their own friends killed of course they are gonna feel the Anger and feeling of Vengance, was it wrong? haha i think the answer is pretty clear but saying "Stupid AMERICA Soldier" eat a dick and fuck you all who said that. i dont judge peoples action until i expeirence their actions first hand. especially in something such as War. all of these tree huggers crying saying how wrong it is but yet have never had to go to war. i been on this forum and i mistly see Anti American thread and hate. and until lately i been getting Anti every other country who has someone Bad mouthing the country i live in. i used to never think down upon people in Great Britian or Iraq. i never said Stupid UK Soldier or Dumb Towel Heads. i would say Fuck Osama not Fuck Afganastan but its changing. its sad to have me being 16 year old seeing such so called "Mature Adults" from so called Civil countrys who think their better then us acting like such assholes. judge us onna few peoples actions and stereotypes, then expect us to judge you no diffrent. for now on im gonna think anyone who is from England is an over acting drunk asshole who starts fights in stadiums hurting innocent people, and that every people who comes from Iraq or Afgan is a Terrorist Towel head who should be shot on sight.
why dont u grow a ball?

if americans wanna join the army that&#39;s their own business, given they&#39;ve weighed the consequences of doing so. They put their lives on the line to protect US interests, EDIT: nothing wrong about that. But when soldiers go out of line and against the rules then it&#39;s not millitary EDIT: service anymore. A very thin line between "legit killing" and "murder"

I dont want to join the army not because I am a "pussy", as you so elegantly put it. I dont join because I do not want to do the biddings of the politians and THEIR agendas and THEIR interests.

at least i can think for myself and not foolish enough to die for other ppl&#39;s unworthy cause.

hobbes
12-15-2003, 12:36 AM
Originally posted by Pitbul@15 December 2003 - 01:29
most of you critisize war as though u have experienced it. how fucking unbelievedable is right. what understanding do you have of war if u have never been in it? most fo you are to pussy to go jion the army let alone feel what they feel when they see their own friends killed of course they are gonna feel the Anger and feeling of Vengance, was it wrong? haha i think the answer is pretty clear but saying "Stupid AMERICA Soldier" eat a dick and fuck you all who said that. i dont judge peoples action until i expeirence their actions first hand. especially in something such as War. all of these tree huggers crying saying how wrong it is but yet have never had to go to war. i been on this forum and i mistly see Anti American thread and hate. and until lately i been getting Anti every other country who has someone Bad mouthing the country i live in. i used to never think down upon people in Great Britian or Iraq. i never said Stupid UK Soldier or Dumb Towel Heads. i would say Fuck Osama not Fuck Afganastan but its changing. its sad to have me being 16 year old seeing such so called "Mature Adults" from so called Civil countrys who think their better then us acting like such assholes. judge us onna few peoples actions and stereotypes, then expect us to judge you no diffrent. for now on im gonna think anyone who is from England is an over acting drunk asshole who starts fights in stadiums hurting innocent people, and that every people who comes from Iraq or Afgan is a Terrorist Towel head who should be shot on sight.
Pitbul,

Pull it in a notch. You can be more effective if you are more articulate.

The commen about "stupid Americans", I have already addressed, as it pissed me off too.

I have been working on my posting style over the past several years. I find that patient and thoughtful responses tend to win the respect of those I argue with.

I am proud to say that I have changed the way people think, former enemies are now my friends, We have learned that people are people, period.

You can continue to piss people off with venom, or attempt to change their minds with patience, understanding, and a big can of whoopass.

Lamsey
12-15-2003, 12:37 AM
Originally posted by Pitbul@14 December 2003 - 23:29
most of you critisize war as though u have experienced it. how fucking unbelievedable is right. what understanding do you have of war if u have never been in it? most fo you are to pussy to go jion the army let alone feel what they feel when they see their own friends killed of course they are gonna feel the Anger and feeling of Vengance, was it wrong? haha i think the answer is pretty clear but saying "Stupid AMERICA Soldier" eat a dick and fuck you all who said that. i dont judge peoples action until i expeirence their actions first hand. especially in something such as War. all of these tree huggers crying saying how wrong it is but yet have never had to go to war. i been on this forum and i mistly see Anti American thread and hate. and until lately i been getting Anti every other country who has someone Bad mouthing the country i live in. i used to never think down upon people in Great Britian or Iraq. i never said Stupid UK Soldier or Dumb Towel Heads. i would say Fuck Osama not Fuck Afganastan but its changing. its sad to have me being 16 year old seeing such so called "Mature Adults" from so called Civil countrys who think their better then us acting like such assholes. judge us onna few peoples actions and stereotypes, then expect us to judge you no diffrent. for now on im gonna think anyone who is from England is an over acting drunk asshole who starts fights in stadiums hurting innocent people, and that every people who comes from Iraq or Afgan is a Terrorist Towel head who should be shot on sight.
Is it not a fact that Americans record the single highest proportion of friendly fire out of all the armies out of the world? I&#39;m not 100% sure about that, but I think it&#39;s true.

About a quarter of US casualties in the first Gulf War were caused by friendly fire.

There have been many notorious incidents where the US have fired upon their allies when a simple use of IFF or some similar mechanism would have helped out.

This is why the American Army is branded &#39;stupid&#39; and &#39;gung-ho&#39;.



Just because these men are trained to kill doesn&#39;t mean they have free rein to kill whatever the hell they like.

hobbes
12-15-2003, 12:45 AM
Originally posted by Lamsey+15 December 2003 - 01:37--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td>QUOTE (Lamsey &#064; 15 December 2003 - 01:37)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteBegin-Pitbul@14 December 2003 - 23:29
most of you critisize war as though u have experienced it. how fucking unbelievedable is right. what understanding do you have of war if u have never been in it? most fo you are to pussy to go jion the army let alone feel what they feel when they see their own friends killed of course they are gonna feel the Anger and feeling of Vengance, was it wrong? haha i think the answer is pretty clear but saying "Stupid AMERICA Soldier" eat a dick and fuck you all who said that. i dont judge peoples action until i expeirence their actions first hand. especially in something such as War. all of these tree huggers crying saying how wrong it is but yet have never had to go to war. i been on this forum and i mistly see Anti American thread and hate. and until lately i been getting Anti every other country who has someone Bad mouthing the country i live in. i used to never think down upon people in Great Britian or Iraq. i never said Stupid UK Soldier or Dumb Towel Heads. i would say Fuck Osama not Fuck Afganastan but its changing. its sad to have me being 16 year old seeing such so called "Mature Adults" from so called Civil countrys who think their better then us acting like such assholes. judge us onna few peoples actions and stereotypes, then expect us to judge you no diffrent. for now on im gonna think anyone who is from England is an over acting drunk asshole who starts fights in stadiums hurting innocent people, and that every people who comes from Iraq or Afgan is a Terrorist Towel head who should be shot on sight.
Is it not a fact that Americans record the single highest proportion of friendly fire out of all the armies out of the world? I&#39;m not 100% sure about that, but I think it&#39;s true.

About a quarter of US casualties in the first Gulf War were caused by friendly fire.

There have been many notorious incidents where the US have fired upon their allies when a simple use of IFF or some similar mechanism would have helped out.

This is why the American Army is branded &#39;stupid&#39; and &#39;gung-ho&#39;.



Just because these men are trained to kill doesn&#39;t mean they have free rein to kill whatever the hell they like.[/b][/quote]
Lamsey,

Just an absolutely stupid post, with no constructive purpose. You have no idea what you are talking about.

Why not just ignore a rant and not contribute to the anger.

This whole "gung ho" shit is simply that, most US soldier come from places which have no idea what that means. We are NOT crazy gun toting Texans at the OK Corral.

james_bond_rulez
12-15-2003, 12:48 AM
yes hobbes i do agree somewhat on that

most US soldiers follow a certain set of rules but the killing we saw on that videotape is simply unacceptable.

they dont take killing seriously let along respecting an another human being.

that much i have to say <_<

mustangchang
12-15-2003, 12:52 AM
Originally posted by Lamsey+15 December 2003 - 00:37--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td>QUOTE (Lamsey @ 15 December 2003 - 00:37)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'> <!--QuoteBegin-Pitbul@14 December 2003 - 23:29
most of you critisize war as though u have experienced it. how fucking unbelievedable is right. what understanding do you have of war if u have never been in it? most fo you are to pussy to go jion the army let alone feel what they feel when they see their own friends killed of course they are gonna feel the Anger and feeling of Vengance, was it wrong? haha i think the answer is pretty clear but saying "Stupid AMERICA Soldier" eat a dick and fuck you all who said that. i dont judge peoples action until i expeirence their actions first hand. especially in something such as War. all of these tree huggers crying saying how wrong it is but yet have never had to go to war. i been on this forum and i mistly see Anti American thread and hate. and until lately i been getting Anti every other country who has someone Bad mouthing the country i live in. i used to never think down upon people in Great Britian or Iraq. i never said Stupid UK Soldier or Dumb Towel Heads. i would say Fuck Osama not Fuck Afganastan but its changing. its sad to have me being 16 year old seeing such so called "Mature Adults" from so called Civil countrys who think their better then us acting like such assholes. judge us onna few peoples actions and stereotypes, then expect us to judge you no diffrent. for now on im gonna think anyone who is from England is an over acting drunk asshole who starts fights in stadiums hurting innocent people, and that every people who comes from Iraq or Afgan is a Terrorist Towel head who should be shot on sight.
Is it not a fact that Americans record the single highest proportion of friendly fire out of all the armies out of the world? I&#39;m not 100% sure about that, but I think it&#39;s true.

About a quarter of US casualties in the first Gulf War were caused by friendly fire.

There have been many notorious incidents where the US have fired upon their allies when a simple use of IFF or some similar mechanism would have helped out.

This is why the American Army is branded &#39;stupid&#39; and &#39;gung-ho&#39;.



Just because these men are trained to kill doesn&#39;t mean they have free rein to kill whatever the hell they like. [/b][/quote]
What major war happend in the last 15 year that America wasnt in. So yeah of coarse we might have the highest friendly fire rate but if your going to post something like that you should give us the real facts and maybe a link because what you said might be mindless horse shit <_< .....

hobbes
12-15-2003, 12:53 AM
Originally posted by james_bond_rulez@15 December 2003 - 01:48
yes hobbes i do agree somewhat on that

most US soldiers follow a certain set of rules but the killing we saw on that videotape is simply unacceptable.

they dont take killing seriously let along respecting an another human being.

that much i have to say <_<
James,

The video is cruel, no doubt.

The question is whether that is unique to American soldiers.

I doubt it.

Iraqi soldiers are fond of cutting off heads and dragging bodies behind vehicles.

I will never ignore inappropriate acts in the name of "patriotism", otherwise I am just another American fool.

Alex H
12-15-2003, 01:39 AM
Originally posted by Pitbul@15 December 2003 - 00:29
i dont judge peoples action until i expeirence their actions first hand.
Well as this is impossible we have to judge our own actions by what is considered acceptable in the society we live in.

It&#39;s like trying to explain to a drunken friend: "Don&#39;t do something you&#39;ll regret later".

I can appreciate the "heat of the moment", but perhaps the shooter in the tape is now regretting his actions. Maybe giving an interview minutes after wasting someone was not a sensible idea. He has to live with his decision to pull the trigger for the rest of his life, and while anger is fleeting, regret is everlasting.

mustangchang
12-15-2003, 02:00 AM
Hey let me add something here almost everyday I wake up and see the news and an American soldier is dead or innocent Iraqi civilians are killed by these terrorist over there, jesus just yesterday a car bomb was set off in front of an Iraqi police station killing 10 and wounding 20 some were civilians was that not "murder" but yet some of you guys crying how unjust America is by seeing this video. Its like you have to see a video to know whats going on in the world. I guess CNN should put up a video of a car bomb exploding and killing US soldiers and civilians for you guys to know.

Also how do you know that Iraqi soldier wasn&#39;t just shooting at them minutes before. If I was in a war and the enemy is trying to kill me I would kill him because its WAR&#33;...

Virtualbody1234
12-15-2003, 02:08 AM
It&#39;s war. What did you expect? Did you expect people to be treated fairly during war? It get&#39;s nasty you know.

That&#39;s why war should be avoided.

3rd gen noob
12-15-2003, 02:16 AM
Originally posted by Virtualbody1234@15 December 2003 - 01:08
It&#39;s war. What did you expect? Did you expect people to be treated fairly during war? It get&#39;s nasty you know.

That&#39;s why war should be avoided.
maybe there should be a set of guidelines then, for war situations, to try and stop it from getting out of hand

possibly call it the Geneva Convention?

;)

J'Pol
12-15-2003, 02:22 AM
Has the US Army really reduced itself to the "everybody else is barbaric, so it&#39;s OK if we are as well" argument.

balamm
12-15-2003, 02:29 AM
Yeah, there&#39;s nothing like video to show exactly what happened in real time.

Only this video DOESN&#39;T show real time&#33;

Did anyone take a really good look at each and every detail from all perspectives before forming all these uninformed judgements? Apparently not because it was immediately obvious to me that there was no scope on the rifle. The soldier was spotting a moving target a some distance during a heated firefight.
Could he be certain without any doubt what so ever, that this target posed NO threat to other forces in the area?
Could he be certain beyond any doubt that there was no weapon within reach of the enemy soldier?
Could you, without the aid of a 1000x telephoto lens and instant replay, be absolutely certain that it was OK to ignore this combatant in the heat of battle?

If your answer is yes, fuck off and stop wasting precious resources and other peoples time.

3rd gen noob
12-15-2003, 02:32 AM
Originally posted by balamm@15 December 2003 - 01:29
heated firefight.
heated firefight?
how many iraqi&#39;s could you see in the film?
how many shots were fired the entire length of the clip?

balamm
12-15-2003, 02:37 AM
I think you&#39;d better watch it again. Maybe without preconceptions this time. Do you not see tracers flying every where in the background? Maybe you&#39;d better increase your window and resolution size a bit ;)

3rd gen noob
12-15-2003, 02:39 AM
Originally posted by balamm@15 December 2003 - 01:37
I think you&#39;d better watch it again. Maybe without preconceptions this time. Do you not see tracers flying every where in the background? Maybe you&#39;d better increase your window and resolution size a bit ;)
i can only "see" 3 bullets in the entire clip
can you give a time code for these tracers?

Rock Tonic Juice Magic
12-15-2003, 02:49 AM
silly americans <_<

Alex H
12-15-2003, 02:58 AM
I count 3 tracers as well.

Anyone listen to the commentary? "Wounded, another Iraqi writhes on the ground".

Did that guy look like a danger to you? He looked like a wounded Iraqi to me.

And the American forces went over there to liberate the Iraqi people (or look for WMD - I foget which now), so instead of blasting the shit out of anything that moves "just in case", shouldn&#39;t they be taking POWs like a "civilized" army?

Hey, there is so much infighting in Iraq, why don&#39;t we just nuke the whole country "just in case"? I mean hey, there is a good chance that one day an Iraqi kid could grow up and shoot an American soldier. You know, give it 20 or 30 years and who knows? I say waste the lot of them now just to be on the safe side.

morpheus 1.0
12-15-2003, 03:16 AM
@lamsey

stfu u fucking dumbass, i agree, u have no fucking idea what u are tallking about

...

@all the stupid hippies and pussy brits

stfu, what u guys saw on the video was one incident,... do u even want to guess how many times that has happened with out the camera around??

THIS IS WAR,...

all the countries have gotten alot more civilized in there fighting techniques over the years, and what u saw on the video is nothing compared to what happened in vietnam or korea.
so everyone just stfu and end all comments on this post, becuz it is just creating conflict at this board and i am also contributing to the conflict and i understand that, so i am going to stop typing right n.....

balamm
12-15-2003, 03:21 AM
Apparently you&#39;ll continue to see what you want to see untill some other thought finally enters your mind.

Cobain got it quite right in "all appologies".

Sometimes I too wish I was easily amused, like you. It would really uncomplicate things.

Then I could spend enormous effort promoting racism and ignorance without any perspective or real logic.
Yeah, Americans can be considered a new, separate race if all your bullshit statements about them are to be believed.

So why not hunt them down and kill them if you feel so strongly?

Oh, you don&#39;t really hate them all?

Well then you&#39;d better make up your mind which it is because with all your crap talk, it&#39;ll only be a matter of time before they&#39;ve had enough of you too&#33;

Have a nice day :)

shn
12-15-2003, 03:37 AM
Originally posted by balamm@14 December 2003 - 20:29
Yeah, there&#39;s nothing like video to show exactly what happened in real time.

Only this video DOESN&#39;T show real time&#33;

Did anyone take a really good look at each and every detail from all perspectives before forming all these uninformed judgements? Apparently not because it was immediately obvious to me that there was no scope on the rifle. The soldier was spotting a moving target a some distance during a heated firefight.
Could he be certain without any doubt what so ever, that this target posed NO threat to other forces in the area?
Could he be certain beyond any doubt that there was no weapon within reach of the enemy soldier?
Could you, without the aid of a 1000x telephoto lens and instant replay, be absolutely certain that it was OK to ignore this combatant in the heat of battle?

If your answer is yes, fuck off and stop wasting precious resources and other peoples time.
I totally agree.http://smilies.sofrayt.com/%5E/e/bigun.gif

3rd gen noob
12-15-2003, 04:00 AM
Originally posted by morpheus 1.0@15 December 2003 - 02:16
@lamsey

stfu u fucking dumbass, i agree, u have no fucking idea what u are tallking about

...

@all the stupid hippies and pussy brits

stfu, what u guys saw on the video was one incident,... do u even want to guess how many times that has happened with out the camera around??

THIS IS WAR,...

all the countries have gotten alot more civilized in there fighting techniques over the years, and what u saw on the video is nothing compared to what happened in vietnam or korea.
so everyone just stfu and end all comments on this post, becuz it is just creating conflict at this board and i am also contributing to the conflict and i understand that, so i am going to stop typing right n.....
read J&#39;Pol&#39;s comment just above ;)

Alex H
12-15-2003, 04:11 AM
Originally posted by balamm@15 December 2003 - 03:21
Apparently you&#39;ll continue to see what you want to see untill some other thought finally enters your mind.

Cobain got it quite right in "all appologies".

Sometimes I too wish I was easily amused, like you. It would really uncomplicate things.

Then I could spend enormous effort promoting racism and ignorance without any perspective or real logic.
Yeah, Americans can be considered a new, separate race if all your bullshit statements about them are to be believed.

So why not hunt them down and kill them if you feel so strongly?

Oh, you don&#39;t really hate them all?

Well then you&#39;d better make up your mind which it is because with all your crap talk, it&#39;ll only be a matter of time before they&#39;ve had enough of you too&#33;

Have a nice day :)
Was that to me?

Look buddy, I don&#39;t hate all Americans. I hate Americans who shoot wounded people lying on the ground. I&#39;d hate anyone who shoots wounded people lying on the ground.

You guys want to lead the world? Fine. Lead by example. "We are Americans and we are superior because we are merciful". Mercy is a concept that is recognised by every fucking religion in the world. Doesn&#39;t matter if you&#39;re Mohammed from Mosul or Dan from Denver. Those guys in that video are no better than Iraqis who mutilate dead US soldiers. They went battle crazy. US soldiers are elite - they are supposed to be professionals. Those guys were not acting in a professional manner.

I don&#39;t know what you mean by "racist".

sparsely
12-15-2003, 05:26 AM
Originally posted by topic
Video Of Us Soliders Shooting, wounded soldier dead. warning

:o somebody here did it?&#33;

3rd gen noob
12-15-2003, 05:29 AM
Originally posted by Alex H@15 December 2003 - 03:11
US soldiers are elite
that reminds me that the u.s. army had to ask the british special forces to do missions for them in the first gulf war. for what reason?
because the sas and sbs are better than delta :lol:

Alex H
12-15-2003, 07:05 AM
What about the Aussie SAS? They seem to spend their whole time doing stuff Delta isn&#39;t able to&#33;

3rd gen noob
12-15-2003, 07:12 AM
Originally posted by Alex H@15 December 2003 - 06:05
What about the Aussie SAS? They seem to spend their whole time doing stuff Delta isn&#39;t able to&#33;
yeah, the australian and british special forces are superior to delta :lol:

FatBastard
12-15-2003, 07:20 AM
Originally posted by balamm@15 December 2003 - 11:29
If your answer is yes, fuck off and stop wasting precious resources and other peoples time.
No, you fuck off arsehole&#33; What is it with you and other people&#39;s points of view? Or are your views worthier than others? You were a self opinionated crap mod who did this board a favour by resigning, you should consider the next step, or at least stay away from threads where people are likely to express an opinion.

james_bond_rulez
12-15-2003, 07:35 AM
woah this is getting a little too much for me lol

cool down everyone :lol:

balamm
12-15-2003, 10:28 AM
Originally posted by FatBastard+15 December 2003 - 00:20--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td>QUOTE (FatBastard @ 15 December 2003 - 00:20)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'> <!--QuoteBegin-balamm@15 December 2003 - 11:29
If your answer is yes, fuck off and stop wasting precious resources and other peoples time.
No, you fuck off arsehole&#33; What is it with you and other people&#39;s points of view? Or are your views worthier than others? You were a self opinionated crap mod who did this board a favour by resigning, you should consider the next step, or at least stay away from threads where people are likely to express an opinion. [/b][/quote]
When other peoples point of view is tainted by ignorance, racism, drugs, alcohol, or just general stupidity, then you will hear what I have to say. Like it or not.

I&#39;m not american but I enjoy every benefit of being an American (Indoor plumbing is rather nice) and I find the comments and blind accusations here just as offensive as I would if I were American.

I&#39;ve never been thrilled with the way europians, especially Brits, take over forums and throw their arrogant and offensive opinions around, forcing other users to move on or bite their tongue, But, I have never suggested you are ALL ignorant assholes because of it.

You may be, but I have never ever suggested it ;)

Lamsey
12-15-2003, 12:01 PM
Can we please keep the discussion above the stfu level?

And can someone also explain to me why the world&#39;s highest, or at least one of the highest, proportions (not amounts) of friendly-fire incidents doesn&#39;t imply a certain amount of &#39;gung-ho&#39; nature?

J'Pol
12-15-2003, 12:24 PM
Originally posted by 3rd gen noob+15 December 2003 - 06:29--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td>QUOTE (3rd gen noob @ 15 December 2003 - 06:29)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'> <!--QuoteBegin-Alex H@15 December 2003 - 03:11
US soldiers are elite
that reminds me that the u.s. army had to ask the british special forces to do missions for them in the first gulf war. for what reason?
because the sas and sbs are better than delta :lol: [/b][/quote]
As I understand it they do fairly different jobs mate.

The SAS specialise in covert incursion, providing intelligence back to the main forces. They will be installed long term and will avoid contact with the enemy. They have some units who specialise in counter terrorist strikes etc, but from a military perspective they are primarilly an intelligence gathering service.

Delta, as I understand it are an elite strike force. They attack specific targets quickly and normally effectively. A sort of in, kill it and back out again thing.

It would be natural for the SAS to provide intelligence back to the commanders, which Delta, or someone like them, would then act on.

J'Pol
12-15-2003, 12:33 PM
Before anyone gets on too high a horse. When dealing with terrorists, the SAS strike teams do not take prisoners. Armed or wounded, they are not taken alive. To do so would be considered a major failure (the last for boab).

hobbes
12-15-2003, 03:52 PM
Originally posted by Lamsey@15 December 2003 - 13:01
Can we please keep the discussion above the stfu level?

And can someone also explain to me why the world&#39;s highest, or at least one of the highest, proportions (not amounts) of friendly-fire incidents doesn&#39;t imply a certain amount of &#39;gung-ho&#39; nature?
Because the total number of coalition force casualties was so incredibly low (I don&#39;t have the numbers, but from memory about 100-150 combat related deaths in the Gulf War, most by a single scud that actually made it.) any friendly fire deaths are going to be statistically magnified.

So to look at it another way, the battle was so overwhelmingly lopsided and so few soldiers were killed that the percentage of friendly fire deaths is simply a statistical aberration. Almost all friendly- fire deaths could have resulted from 1 or 2 incidents. A great example of how statistics can be used to mislead people.


WW2- combat deaths- 300,000
Gulf War 1- 150
http://www.historyguy.com/american_war_casualties.html

Sorry, a 3 minute post, no time to edit, late for work.

MagicNakor
12-16-2003, 05:29 AM
I believe Lamsey was talking about the American ratio of friendly fire "incidents" overall rather than just in the Gulf War.

:ninja:

hobbes
12-16-2003, 05:39 AM
Originally posted by MagicNakor@16 December 2003 - 06:29
I believe Lamsey was talking about the American ratio of friendly fire "incidents" overall rather than just in the Gulf War.

:ninja:
He specifically mentioned the "Gulf War 1" earlier in this thread. That is why I specifically mentioned that war.

Notice how he also stressed "proportion, not total" and that would certainly suggest that he was referring to the first Gulf War, as the data from that war can be totally skewed by even 1 or 2 additional deaths.

As for the US having a higher "friendly fire proportion" historically, I have no data on this. So many variables, so much speculation. I would say that expectation drives observation.

MagicNakor
12-16-2003, 07:53 AM
I hadn&#39;t seen that post. Looking back on it though, it seems to me that he chose the Gulf War to illustrate the point of the American army having a higher percentage of friendly-fire incidents than other armies.

The number I have for the Gulf War is around 24% of casualities was due to "friendly-fire," and during the 100-hour Operation Desert Storm alone there were 27 seperate cases. The Pentagon&#39;s stance was (and may still be) "We&#39;re working on it."

From the Gulf War onwards, the American army has had a relatively low casualty toll (understandable, as "meat grinder" battles aren&#39;t terribly common anymore), so deaths from "friendly-fire" represent a significant proportion of the casualties.

:ninja:

junkyardking
12-16-2003, 08:26 AM
When this lastest war in Iraq first started, the US seemed to be suffering more casualties from crashing there helicopters into one an other or into the ground, i got to wonder if the pilots are poorly trained or the US helicopters are just crap? ;)

james_bond_rulez
12-16-2003, 08:47 AM
Originally posted by junkyardking@15 December 2003 - 23:26
When this lastest war in Iraq first started, the US seemed to be suffering more casualties from crashing there helicopters into one an other or into the ground, i got to wonder if the pilots are poorly trained or the US helicopters are just crap? ;)
oh oh oh i can fly&#33;&#33; i can fly US cargo jets if i am properly paid :P

I can fly&#33;&#33; really&#33;&#33;&#33; :lol:

hobbes
12-16-2003, 03:42 PM
Originally posted by MagicNakor@16 December 2003 - 08:53
I hadn&#39;t seen that post. Looking back on it though, it seems to me that he chose the Gulf War to illustrate the point of the American army having a higher percentage of friendly-fire incidents than other armies.

The number I have for the Gulf War is around 24% of casualities was due to "friendly-fire," and during the 100-hour Operation Desert Storm alone there were 27 seperate cases. The Pentagon&#39;s stance was (and may still be) "We&#39;re working on it."

From the Gulf War onwards, the American army has had a relatively low casualty toll (understandable, as "meat grinder" battles aren&#39;t terribly common anymore), so deaths from "friendly-fire" represent a significant proportion of the casualties.

:ninja:
Exactly my point, that is a good thing. It means you have a very low chance of being killed, period.

It would be more relevant to examine "friendly fire" deaths/ per sortie or mission. This would indicate whether it is the total volume of missions that effects the chance of a mishap or whether there is an extremely high incidence, regardless the number of missions. The US controlled the sky, this is where the bulk of friendly fire deaths come from. Impersonal missles hitting targets never seen by the pilot.

A new way of engaging the enemy, leads to a new profile in how casualties will be incurred. If I were to tell you that more accidents occur on busy city highways in inclement weather than on isloated country roads, you would have no problem believing that.

Analogously, we now fight wars with wave after wave of simulataneous air attacks, occuring in a foreign land, often times in blinding dust stoms, so it is expected that some miscommunication/miscalculation is going to occur. Most targets are not ever seen by the person launching the weapon.

The point is that Lamsey wanted to blame all this on "gung ho" mentality. I pointed out that proportion of friendly fire deaths were higher due to the nature of engagement and the high degree of complexity in coordinating simulateous air attacks. When you run 100&#39;s of thousands of missions, some shit is going to happen.

So Magic, is friendly fire a "gung ho" phenomenon or perhaps it is more complex than that?

We are fighting a new type of war, with very low casualties on our side, it therefore makes the friendly fire death proportion stand out. As the Pentagon says "we are working on it". Compare 150 deaths in this war with 300,000 in world war 2, this is a good thing if you are a US soldier.

J'Pol
12-16-2003, 05:57 PM
A reasonably sensible post (whether I agree or not). Then you go and spoil it all by saying something stupid like ....



Originally posted by hobbes@16 December 2003 - 16:42
Compare 150 deaths in this war with 300,000 in world war 2, this is a good thing if you are a US soldier.

3rd gen noob
12-16-2003, 06:17 PM
Originally posted by J&#39;Pol@15 December 2003 - 11:33
Before anyone gets on too high a horse. When dealing with terrorists, the SAS strike teams do not take prisoners. Armed or wounded, they are not taken alive. To do so would be considered a major failure (the last for boab).
only when hitting a certain embassy do they take hostages then? :-"

3rd gen noob
12-16-2003, 06:20 PM
Originally posted by hobbes@16 December 2003 - 14:42
Analogously, we now fight wars with wave after wave of simulataneous air attacks, occuring in a foreign land, often times in blinding dust stoms, so it is expected that some miscommunication/miscalculation is going to occur. Most targets are not ever seen by the person launching the weapon.
would it not make some sense at least to delay firing when visibility is low (even though there are capabilities for certain degrees of accuracy in poor conditions?

would it not make sense to have less friendly soldiers in a general area you are bombing?

DanB
12-16-2003, 06:51 PM
Originally posted by J&#39;Pol@15 December 2003 - 13:24
The SAS specialise in covert incursion, providing intelligence back to the main forces. They will be installed long term and will avoid contact with the enemy. They have some units who specialise in counter terrorist strikes etc, but from a military perspective they are primarilly an intelligence gathering service.

Have a read of this (http://www.specwarnet.com/europe/sas.htm).

MagicNakor
12-16-2003, 11:18 PM
Originally posted by hobbes@16 December 2003 - 16:42
...So Magic, is friendly fire a "gung ho" phenomenon or perhaps it is more complex than that?...

Most likely a combination of varying factors, although a "gung ho" mentality is certainly prevalent among them.

I&#39;d contribute it to the way the soldiers are trained, as well. I&#39;ve had a few friends join the US military (Marines, Navy (although the Marines are part of the Navy...), and I *think* Army), and the psychological reprogramming really did a number on one of them. He probably wasn&#39;t the best candidate to begin with, but it doesn&#39;t seem there is too much in the way of screening. It really would be interesting to know the psychological profiles of the soldiers who shoot their comrades.

Bombs and missiles are a different matter, although I really have to question the judgement of someone who gives pilots speed and sends them up into the air rather than letting them sleep a few hours.

:ninja:

Alex H
12-17-2003, 01:25 AM
Originally posted by MagicNakor@16 December 2003 - 23:18
I really have to question the judgement of someone who gives pilots speed and sends them up into the air rather than letting them sleep a few hours.

:ninja:
You get the full force of the law when you&#39;re driving a semi-trailer on speed&#33; What do you get when you do it in an &#036;18m chopper? Loss of licence? "Sorry officer, I only had a couple of lines, I thought I was ok to fly".

J'Pol
12-17-2003, 01:54 AM
Originally posted by Alex H+17 December 2003 - 02:25--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td>QUOTE (Alex H @ 17 December 2003 - 02:25)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'> <!--QuoteBegin-MagicNakor@16 December 2003 - 23:18
I really have to question the judgement of someone who gives pilots speed and sends them up into the air rather than letting them sleep a few hours.

:ninja:
You get the full force of the law when you&#39;re driving a semi-trailer on speed&#33; What do you get when you do it in an &#036;18m chopper? Loss of licence? "Sorry officer, I only had a couple of lines, I thought I was ok to fly". [/b][/quote]
&#036;18m seems a bit low for a decent, fully armed combat helicopter.

Are they getting them on the cheap somewhere.

Alex H
12-17-2003, 01:57 AM
The&#39;ve got a buy-back scheme going with Saddam.

3rd gen noob
12-17-2003, 01:58 AM
Originally posted by Alex H@17 December 2003 - 00:57
The&#39;ve got a buy-back scheme going with Saddam.
don&#39;t forget the taliban too :P

FatBastard
12-17-2003, 02:52 AM
When I was a little kid my father used to tell me a story about WW2. "When the British bombed, the Germans ducked, when the Germans bombed, the British ducked, but when the Americans bombed, everybody ducked." I never really understood that until years later, when I realised what he meant. More British servicemen were killed by American "Friendly Fire" during the Gulf War than by the Iraqis. They are well known for it. Friendly fire does not just mean killing allied troops, to bomb a village and kill innocent civilians is also friendly fire.

3rd gen noob
12-17-2003, 02:57 AM
Originally posted by FatBastard@17 December 2003 - 01:52
"When the British bombed, the Germans ducked, when the Germans bombed, the British ducked, but when the Americans bombed, everybody ducked."
i&#39;ve never heard that before :lol:

it is pretty sad when you think about it though

billyfridge
12-17-2003, 03:08 AM
Originally posted by hobbes@16 December 2003 - 15:42


We are fighting a new type of war, with very low casualties on our side, it therefore makes the friendly fire death proportion stand out. As the Pentagon says "we are working on it". Compare 150 deaths in this war with 300,000 in world war 2, this is a good thing if you are a US soldier.
There is no comparison to WW2 that was a war, Iraq is a skirmish, only the US would make a fuss about. When Britain took back the Falklands from Argentina
there was a damn sight more fighting than the piddling little Iraq war, and there was a lot less fuss and chest thumping like you get from the US. <_<

hobbes
12-17-2003, 03:09 AM
Originally posted by FatBastard@17 December 2003 - 03:52
When I was a little kid my father used to tell me a story about WW2. "When the British bombed, the Germans ducked, when the Germans bombed, the British ducked, but when the Americans bombed, everybody ducked." I never really understood that until years later, when I realised what he meant. More British servicemen were killed by American "Friendly Fire" during the Gulf War than by the Iraqis. They are well known for it. Friendly fire does not just mean killing allied troops, to bomb a village and kill innocent civilians is also friendly fire.
And without the help of Americans, you would have been exterminated.

3rd gen noob
12-17-2003, 03:11 AM
Originally posted by hobbes@17 December 2003 - 02:09
And without the help of Americans, you would have been exterminated.
and if it hadn&#39;t of been for pearl harbour, you pussies might never have come in :P

hobbes
12-17-2003, 03:12 AM
Originally posted by billyfridge+17 December 2003 - 04:08--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td>QUOTE (billyfridge &#064; 17 December 2003 - 04:08)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'> <!--QuoteBegin-hobbes@16 December 2003 - 15:42


We are fighting a new type of war, with very low casualties on our side, it therefore makes the friendly fire death proportion stand out. As the Pentagon says "we are working on it". Compare 150 deaths in this war with 300,000 in world war 2, this is a good thing if you are a US soldier.
There is no comparison to WW2 that was a war, Iraq is a skirmish, only the US would make a fuss about. When Britain took back the Falklands from Argentina
there was a damn sight more fighting than the piddling little Iraq war, and there was a lot less fuss and chest thumping like you get from the US. <_< [/b][/quote]
What is your point? When has the US ever thumped it&#39;s chest?http://www.army.mod.uk/img/presscentre/quick_image_hires/30560896.jpg

Resistance in the Falkland Islands.

hobbes
12-17-2003, 03:18 AM
Originally posted by 3rd gen noob+17 December 2003 - 04:11--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td>QUOTE (3rd gen noob @ 17 December 2003 - 04:11)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'> <!--QuoteBegin-hobbes@17 December 2003 - 02:09
And without the help of Americans, you would have been exterminated.
and if it hadn&#39;t of been for pearl harbour, you pussies might never have come in :P [/b][/quote]
Wrong war, read the posts.

3rd gen noob
12-17-2003, 03:21 AM
Originally posted by hobbes+17 December 2003 - 02:18--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td>QUOTE (hobbes @ 17 December 2003 - 02:18)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'>
Originally posted by 3rd gen noob@17 December 2003 - 04:11
<!--QuoteBegin-hobbes@17 December 2003 - 02:09
And without the help of Americans, you would have been exterminated.
and if it hadn&#39;t of been for pearl harbour, you pussies might never have come in :P
Wrong war, read the posts. [/b][/quote]
WW2 and Pearl Harbour? :blink:

MagicNakor
12-17-2003, 03:24 AM
Originally posted by hobbes@17 December 2003 - 04:09
And without the help of Americans, you would have been exterminated.

Edit: Nevermind, I thought we were talking about WW2.

:ninja:

hobbes
12-17-2003, 03:26 AM
Originally posted by 3rd gen noob+17 December 2003 - 04:21--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td>QUOTE (3rd gen noob @ 17 December 2003 - 04:21)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'>
Originally posted by hobbes@17 December 2003 - 02:18

Originally posted by 3rd gen noob@17 December 2003 - 04:11
<!--QuoteBegin-hobbes@17 December 2003 - 02:09
And without the help of Americans, you would have been exterminated.
and if it hadn&#39;t of been for pearl harbour, you pussies might never have come in :P
Wrong war, read the posts.
WW2 and Pearl Harbour? :blink: [/b][/quote]
Not at all what I was talking about. Let the British free Kuwait by itself. So many more deaths would have occured than the regretful handful by US forces.

We never needed UK assistance, it was more of a political gesture. The opposite is less than true.

hobbes
12-17-2003, 03:32 AM
Never mind, I just got a PM from someone whose opinion I value and I now feel I have put this issue to rest. I no longer care about the issue, as I feel that my points have reached the target audience.

3rd gen noob
12-17-2003, 03:42 AM
Originally posted by hobbes@17 December 2003 - 02:26
Not at all what I was talking about.
ah, i see what war now
the ww2 comment confused me :">

FAQ
12-17-2003, 03:49 AM
:blink:

CD WOW have cheap CD&#39;s


I wounder if that guy who shot the person on the floor will also shoot his girl back home if he thinks she&#39;s been cheating....

kill his neighbour for bumping his car....


good grief ~ what a world :unsure:

Alex H
12-17-2003, 04:02 AM
Originally posted by hobbes@17 December 2003 - 03:26
We never needed UK assistance, it was more of a political gesture.
Don&#39;t need assistance? Cool, the UK and Australia can pull out and stop wasting our money and our soldiers lives.

No more special forces for you&#33; Next&#33;

hobbes
12-17-2003, 04:04 AM
Originally posted by Alex H+17 December 2003 - 05:02--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td>QUOTE (Alex H &#064; 17 December 2003 - 05:02)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'> <!--QuoteBegin-hobbes@17 December 2003 - 03:26
We never needed UK assistance, it was more of a political gesture.
Don&#39;t need assistance? Cool, the UK and Australia can pull out and stop wasting our money and our soldiers lives.

No more special forces for you&#33; Next&#33; [/b][/quote]
You were more of a hindrance than a help, later. We did appreciate the inside info on kangaroos, though.

Alex H
12-17-2003, 06:02 AM
You wre more of a hindrance than a help, later

So was Saddam :P

I reckon you&#39;d like being stuffed inside a kangaroo.

Marius24
12-17-2003, 08:30 PM
on topic (only reading the first post)


i believe that the iraqie soilder would have done the same to the american <_<

i could be wrong but he was a iraqie soilder who was there to attack american soilders.

sorry if this post offends you, but this is my opinion :)



*EDIT* BTW i still dont think its right

Mihkel
12-17-2003, 09:18 PM
people like that man shot in that in the video conduct terrorist acts every day in iraq, blow up bombs and kill tens of random civilians every day. i feel no pity to him. but us soldiers acted very imaturely too, they had very wrong attitude, war is not a game.

rfxn
12-17-2003, 10:44 PM
[QUOTE]people like that man shot in that in the video conduct terrorist acts every day in iraq, blow up bombs and kill tens of random civilians every day. i feel no pity to him. but us soldiers acted very imaturely too, they had very wrong attitude, war is not a game. [QUOTE]

Seems like a game to some of the guys, probably to the ones playing too much army-sponsored FPS&#39;s anyways.

Waittaminnit -

Iraqi terrorists? All I see is a bunch of locals giving an occupying force a decent fight.

WW2 comparison of the day: bet the nazis called the legendary French resistance terrorists...

--
/rfxN

SeK612
12-17-2003, 11:22 PM
From the clip I&#39;d say what they did was unfair. If the guy was in great pain then maybe they could have put them out of his misery but shooting someone just because you can is unjust and unfair. I&#39;m sure there would be outrage if we saw Iraqi soldiers shooting an American who was injured an joking about it afterwards.

I&#39;ve also seen a clip on the news in which a group of relatively lightly armed demonstrating Iraqis are shot on by coalition troops (this was in the riots that occurred after Saddam was captured) and saw 3 Iraqis out of the group fall and die as they all ran from the ferocious onslaught of fire from the coalition troop.

Whilst both of these are only a short view into fights that may have taken hours and have been edited skillfully (no doubt for specific reasons) its ironic that an army fighting for "righteousness" and "freedom" could abuse its power in such ways...

Mihkel
12-17-2003, 11:50 PM
rfxn you are just another ignorant fool, who do you think saddamn hussein is? just a peaceful president? most of you have no idea what he has done and do not want to know, only thing you are interested in is to bash usa as much as you can.

even today there was a bomb explosion and fuel truck caught fire, over 15 iraqis died, rfxn, educate me, who are these ppl who do these things? iraqi freedom fighters? - blowing up their own ppl??

Alex H
12-18-2003, 02:00 AM
Mihkel - I don&#39;t think anyone here disagrees that Saddam was a bloodthirsty tyrant. However the fact that the "liberating" army from the US is quite happy to spread democracy and freedom to the Iraqis by gunning them down doesn&#39;t show much sensitivity to the situation.

I&#39;ll agree that shit happens and war is war and everything, but if the US is trying to win hearts and minds in Iraq, they&#39;re not going about it very well.

rfxn
12-18-2003, 09:31 AM
:ph34r: Mihkel, pretty bold statement considering I only pointed out that not all Iraqis like to have their country occupied by a foreign power. What would you do if somebody decided to democratize the US by force of arms? There was some talk of the meaning of word "patriotism" is another thread, you might want to read some of the comments...


who do you think saddamn hussein is? just a peaceful president? most of you have no idea what he has done and do not want to know, only thing you are interested in is to bash usa as much as you can.

Nope, Saddam Hussein sure as hell is not a very nice guy. Personally, I couldn&#39;t care less if somebody put him out of his misery. I know several expatriot Iraqis in my home town who agree with me on this one - yet the same guys are fuming over seeing US troops trample on their home turf.

And even though I have little love for the US system in general, I also realize the only power that can stop this madness comes from the American people. If we can&#39;t have him sent off to the Hague at least take him out of office.

Unless of course another major terrorist attack happens on continental US and the current regime invokes martial law... You&#39;re a step away from a full-fledged military dictatorship already.
--
/rfxN
just another ignorant fool :ph34r:

rfxn
12-18-2003, 09:33 AM
Correction:

If we can&#39;t have him sent off to the Hague at least take him out of office.
him = George W. Bush. Damn this cut and paste type of writing...
--
/rfxN

CaptainSilver
12-18-2003, 02:40 PM
True face of the war in Iraq...

I wonder if this video actually made it way to public broadcast... I doubt it.

imported_computerfreak76
12-18-2003, 03:04 PM
despite what we saw in that video the soldiers were doing their job.

my brother in law was in iraq the first few months afterthe war started and there were times when they were given orders to kill anything that moved including women and children and numerous times they did just that. reason? just like in vietnam these iraqi cowards use their childrenand women for war strapping bombs to them and sending them into a crowd of soldiers.

i think that the attitudes the soldiers showed was wrong but i see no wrong in killing the iraqi soldier. it may seem wrong but when faced with these kinds of people you cant take any chances.

FatBastard
12-18-2003, 03:55 PM
Originally posted by computerfreak76@19 December 2003 - 00:04
my brother in law was in iraq the first few months afterthe war started and there were times when they were given orders to kill anything that moved including women and children and numerous times they did just that. reason? just like in vietnam these iraqi cowards use their childrenand women for war strapping bombs to them and sending them into a crowd of soldiers.


If he shot women and children, then he is the coward&#33;

And a war criminal.

J'Pol
12-18-2003, 04:25 PM
Originally posted by FatBastard+18 December 2003 - 16:55--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td>QUOTE (FatBastard @ 18 December 2003 - 16:55)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'> <!--QuoteBegin-computerfreak76@19 December 2003 - 00:04
my brother in law was in iraq the first few months afterthe war started and there were times when they were given orders to kill anything that moved including women and children and numerous times they did just that. reason? just like in vietnam these iraqi cowards use their childrenand women for war strapping bombs to them and sending them into a crowd of soldiers.


If he shot women and children, then he is the coward&#33;

And a war criminal. [/b][/quote]
I assume you refer to unarmed, non combative women and children. A woman or child is just as capable of killing as a man.

You will have seen the pictures of 12 year olds carrying guns, in various parts of the world. Those weapons kill, irrespective of who pulls the trigger.

If you refer to civilians, who are no threat to the soldiers, then I agree that to shoot them is totally wrong. Just following orders is no defence for this.

mooseman2070
12-18-2003, 04:42 PM
theyre alls tpid rednecks, i hate being an american, i wanna live in canada or italy, america sucks

hey wait a minute, why don&#39;t countries come and bomb us because we have weapons of mass destrction......hmmmmm......oh i got it&#33; because we are amercia&#33; we can do whatever want, yeah....thats it :)

themos
12-18-2003, 04:50 PM
Stupid fucking rednex&#33;&#33;&#33;&#33;&#33;&#33;&#33; Fuckin americans creating war because of what&#33;?

OIL.............OIL...................OIL.........................OIL......................OIL...............

These soliders are doing just what they feel like...... and nobody will question that&#33;


Fuck the War/ themos

J'Pol
12-18-2003, 04:55 PM
Originally posted by themos@18 December 2003 - 17:50


Fuck the War/ themos
Is that both, or do we have to chose.

hobbes
12-18-2003, 05:09 PM
Well, it looks like the infusion of new ideas has arrived. The World News forum is open to the lounge mentality. Such eloquent and well presented opinions. I can almost feel the water temperature rising as the "deep end" of the forum migrates south to the "kiddie pool".

Looks like there is no perfect solution to where this section should be located.

mustangchang
12-18-2003, 06:02 PM
Originally posted by themos@18 December 2003 - 16:50
Stupid fucking rednex&#33;&#33;&#33;&#33;&#33;&#33;&#33; Fuckin americans creating war because of what&#33;?

OIL.............OIL...................OIL.........................OIL......................OIL...............

These soliders are doing just what they feel like...... and nobody will question that&#33;


Fuck the War/ themos
haha you sound like scott "the canadian dick" form last nights South Park :lol:

balamm
12-18-2003, 06:22 PM
Originally posted by hobbes@18 December 2003 - 10:09
Well, it looks like the infusion of new ideas has arrived.&nbsp; The World News forum is open to the lounge mentality.&nbsp; Such eloquent and well presented opinions.&nbsp; I can almost feel the water temperature rising as the "deep end" of the forum migrates south to the "kiddie pool".

Looks like there is no perfect solution to where this section should be located.
Look on the bright side there hobbes, a chance to learn new languages and new ways of looking at the world >>


theyre alls tpid rednecks

form last nights South Park

CD WOW have cheap CD&#39;s



These are deep and important thoughts don&#39;t you know&#33;
And I bet the majority of the worlds youth are echoing these exact same sentiments. (between reruns of their favourite sailor moon episodes)

We must be open to youthfull new ideas. These members are our future.

Yes, we can all learn from these scholars. :)

At least show them a little respect, they&#39;ll be running the world in a few years and we&#39;ll be depending on them to make important decisions and care for us in our old age.






:blink:





Be afraid. Be very, very afraid&#33;


.

mustangchang
12-18-2003, 07:13 PM
ohhh Im sorry. I spelled from wrong god forbid I was typing fast and put the O in front of the R,last time I checked this board wasnt World News & Events/ English Class Essay. :lol:

J'Pol
12-18-2003, 07:52 PM
Originally posted by mustangchang@18 December 2003 - 20:13
ohhh Im sorry. I spelled from wrong god forbid I was typing fast and put the O in front of the R,last time I checked this board wasnt World News & Events/ English Class Essay. :lol:
1. Had you spelled from wrong, you would have written wrong.

2. God starts with a capital letter.

3. How exactly did you check, or was that just a puerile figure of speech.

4. Your sig could use a bit of work too, if you have the time.

clocker
12-18-2003, 08:14 PM
Originally posted by mustangchang@18 December 2003 - 12:13
ohhh Im sorry. I spelled from wrong god forbid I was typing fast and put the O in front of the R,last time I checked this board wasnt World News & Events/ English Class Essay. :lol:
Check again.

It is clearly stated that pop quizzes may be given at any time on any subject.
They will count for 40% of your final grade.

You have already begun to dig yourself a hole.

mustangchang
12-18-2003, 11:02 PM
you guys are right Im wrong, HAPPY lol

p.s. my sig fine the way it is.........

100%
12-19-2003, 01:45 AM
The Iraqi was already down...........

they where just playing with him

hobbes
12-19-2003, 01:52 AM
Originally posted by clocker+18 December 2003 - 21:14--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td>QUOTE (clocker &#064; 18 December 2003 - 21:14)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteBegin-mustangchang@18 December 2003 - 12:13
ohhh Im sorry. I spelled from wrong god forbid I was typing fast and put the O in front of the R,last time I checked this board wasnt World News & Events/ English Class Essay.&nbsp; :lol:
Check again.

It is clearly stated that pop quizzes may be given at any time on any subject.
They will count for 40% of your final grade.

You have already begun to dig yourself a hole.
[/b][/quote]
Must be a true friend of yours then, Clocker, if my memory of signatures serves me well.

Was he digging the hole for himself, or was he digging it for.............

themos
12-19-2003, 05:32 PM
Originally posted by J&#39;Pol+18 December 2003 - 16:55--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td>QUOTE (J&#39;Pol &#064; 18 December 2003 - 16:55)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteBegin-themos@18 December 2003 - 17:50


Fuck the War/ themos
Is that both, or do we have to chose.[/b][/quote]
:lol: come on&#33; Im swedish......

Mïcrösöül°V³
12-19-2003, 07:12 PM
iraq is full of animals and they should be shot. has anyone evr seen the "unknown russian soldier" vid from kazaa? where the iraqis cut a russian soldiers neck open while hes alive&#33;? so, screw those pigs, i hope we kill them all. again, just my

Mïcrösöül°V³
12-19-2003, 07:13 PM
iraq is full of animals and they should be shot. has anyone evr seen the "unknown russian soldier" vid from kazaa? where the iraqis cut a russian soldiers neck open while hes alive&#33;? so, screw those pigs, i hope we kill them all. again, just my AMERICAN opinion. :flowers:

J'Pol
12-19-2003, 07:53 PM
Your avatar

http://members.myactv.net/~microsoulv4/eatbabies.gif

and sig

http://members.myactv.net/~microsoulv4/Antichrist.gif

are so uplifting.



Thank you for your balanced and well presented opinion. It is chaps like you who are the only hope for a lasting peace in the middle east and throughout the world.


iraq is full of animals and they should be shot. has anyone evr seen the "unknown russian soldier" vid from kazaa? where the iraqis cut a russian soldiers neck open while hes alive&#33;? so, screw those pigs, i hope we kill them all. again, just my AMERICAN opinion.


Keep up the good work, you are a credit to yourself and those around you.

Mïcrösöül°V³
12-19-2003, 08:41 PM
sorry for the double post, but hey, id like to see peace, but we all know it aint gunna happen, EVER. i am all for leaving them alone, they just cant leave anyone else alone, so screw &#39;em. they are a 3rd world nation full of scumbags. i do feel sorry for the innocent people who live there, but i suspect that "innocent" in that county are far and few in between. :)

mustangchang
12-19-2003, 10:12 PM
Originally posted by Mïcrösöül°V³@19 December 2003 - 19:13
iraq is full of animals and they should be shot. has anyone evr seen the "unknown russian soldier" vid from kazaa? where the iraqis cut a russian soldiers neck open while hes alive&#33;? so, screw those pigs, i hope we kill them all. again, just my AMERICAN opinion. :flowers:
It wasnt Iraqis in that video. I believe they were Chechian rebels or Afghan soldiers because Russian soldiers never went to Iraq...