Howard Shipman Found Hanged In Cell

[lynx]

Dr Howard Shipman was convicted of 15 murders, and was suspected of causing the deaths of at least 250 others, mainly elderly patients.

I, for one, won't miss him. Yet the families of some of the victims are querying why he wasn't on suicide watch. I can understand that they would have liked further info on how and why he carried out these terrible acts, but as far as I know he was not being co-operative.

We should be celebrating that he's gone, not calling for public inquiries.

[SnowyTheDj]

the full story

Harold Shipman found dead in cell
Killer doctor Harold Shipman has died after being found hanging in his cell in Wakefield Prison.


Shipman was discovered at 0620 GMT by staff who tried to revive him, but he was pronounced dead at 0810 GMT, a Prison Service spokeswoman said.

He was jailed for life in January 2000 for murdering 15 patients.

An official report later concluded he killed at least 215 people.

The 57-year-old GP, from Hyde, Greater Manchester, was given 15 life sentences to run concurrently for the murders, and four years for forging a will.


Quote:
The Prison Service will be conducting an investigation into the death
Prison Service statement

He went down in history as the UK's biggest convicted serial killer but always denied his crimes.

Jane Ashton-Hibbert, whose grandmother Hilda was unlawfully killed by Shipman, told BBC News: "This seems like an easy way out for him. He never showed any compassion or any guilt and that door is now closed to us."

A Prison Service statement said he used bedsheets to hang himself.

It went on: "Since arriving at Wakefield on June 18 2003, Shipman had never been on a suicide watch and was on normal location and following a normal regime.

"The family have been informed and the Prison Service will be conducting an investigation into the death as we do with all deaths in custody. The coroner has been informed."

The vast majority of the doctor's victims were elderly women who were given lethal heroin injections.

A report by High Court judge Dame Janet Smith found the former GP could have killed as many as 260 patients.

Poor behaviour

Of Shipman's 215 likely victims, 171 were women and 44 were men, with the oldest being a 93-year-old woman and the youngest a 47-year-old man.

Last month it emerged that the serial killer had been stripped of his privileges at Wakefield because of poor behaviour.

At his trial, Mr Justice Thayne Forbes said: "Finally you have been brought to justice for your wicked, wicked crimes.

"You abused the trust of these victims - you were, after all, their doctor.

"You used a calculating and cold-blooded perversion of your medical skills. You have shown no remorse."

[j2k4]

If he indeed committed suicide, the circumstance creates a bit of a dilemma for the anti-death-penalty crowd, if they choose to comment.

Their urge to blame someone, as long as it is not the good Doctor, should prove entertaining.

As for me?

Shipman performed the first decent act of his miserable existence; good riddance. ;)

[chinook_apache]

Originally posted by j2k4@13 January 2004 - 16:55
Shipman performed the first decent act of his miserable existence; good riddance. ;)
well put.
good riddance is a yorkshire way of saying good byee! :)

[billyfridge]

I live in Hyde, my girlfriend is sure he killed her stepfather, he was found dead
after a visit from shipman the grim reaper, because her elderly stepfather was found slumped in the wrong chair, he lived alone and always used the same chair.
i had to go into the town centre this morning and the place was awash with the media. glad to see him go save the cost of feeding him. the rumour is the prison
officers took his television off him and made him wear regular prison clothes
because he was an arrogant shit <_< <_<

[Samurai]

Lucky bastard. If I worked there I would have pissed in his soup and watched him drink it&#33;

[J'Pol]

Originally posted by j2k4@13 January 2004 - 17:55
If he indeed committed suicide, the circumstance creates a bit of a dilemma for the anti-death-penalty crowd, if they choose to comment.

I find no dilemma.

The state killing a person on my behalf is an entirely different thing from him taking his own life.

It could be argued that he should have been on suicide watch. However that at worst would make the state guilty by inaction, I see that as entirely diferent from actively taking someone&#39;s life.

Love the "anti-death-penalty crowd" phrase by the way. Never miss a chance to use a wee emotive phrase, or lead a witness. That&#39;s typical of the kill-people-brigade.

[j2k4]

Originally posted by J&#39;Pol@13 January 2004 - 15:18
Love the "anti-death-penalty crowd" phrase by the way. Never miss a chance to use a wee emotive phrase, or lead a witness. That&#39;s typical of the kill-people-brigade.
Just thought I&#39;d try some of that "extremist" rhetoric.

I agree, it is a poor fit.

Me wife had a coupon for it, and I was weak. :(

BTW-J&#39;Pol, you know I don&#39;t count you as being amongst the unprincipled objectors; though you are perhaps the only one of your type here: A non-joiner of crowds.

We are in agreement as to Mr. Shipman; that is what counts. ;)

[J'Pol]

j2

He is no great loss to the world, I think we agree on that.

In spite of what will almost certainly happen when I say this, may God have mercy on his soul.

[Biggles]

From the radio on the way home, most (if not all) of the victims relatives spoken to feel angry and cheated. They think that this just one more cruel act by Shipman to prevent the truth of his actions ever coming out. The investigation into the scale of his crimes is still ongoing I believe it was still hoped he would cooperate at some point.

I have no feelings one way or the other regarding Shipman - if the relatives wanted answers I am sorry their grief has been added to, as this will not now occur. Whilst it is easy to make happy noises regarding his death I think a certain sensitivity is owed to those who were hoping he would reveal what he had done and why he did it.

With regards an enquiry this is normal after such an event.

1) to ensure it was suicide

2) to ensure that proper procedures were followed

There was no reason to assume Shipman was suicidal he had his TV and ordinary clothes back and was apparently looking forward to his birthday tomorrow. Assuming it was suicide and procedures were followed I can&#39;t see the enquiry taking long.

[J'Pol]

Originally posted by Biggles@13 January 2004 - 21:07

There was no reason to assume Shipman was suicidal he had his TV and ordinary clothes back and was apparently looking forward to his birthday tomorrow.
You speak as though you consider his mind worked in the same way as a normal person.

It strikes me that he was not that easily read. I suspect his apparent demeanour may not necessarily have reflected his true feelings.

[leftism]

If he indeed committed suicide, the circumstance creates a bit of a dilemma for the anti-death-penalty crowd, if they choose to comment.

Their urge to blame someone, as long as it is not the good Doctor, should prove entertaining.

It doesnt create any kind of dilemma at all. It simply proves that death is the EASY way out for these kinds of people. This has been made quite clear by Mr Shipman choosing this option of his own free will.

Many of the victims families have been on national and local news expressing their anger.

They are angry because 5 years is nothing for ~200 murders and because they will never get to find out why he did what he did, and furthermore they are angry because he should have been stopped from choosing this easy escape option.

They seem to agree with the "anti-death penalty crowd". Death is an escape not a punishment.

[Biggles]

J&#39;Pol

Quite true. I was speaking rather that there was no obvious reason for the guards to have expected him to do this.

[J'Pol]

Originally posted by Biggles@13 January 2004 - 22:11
J&#39;Pol

Quite true. I was speaking rather that there was no obvious reason for the guards to have expected him to do this.
Or indeed the many people who must have spoken to him when these deaths were being investigated.

It just proves that to a large extent we see what we expect and wish to see. We do not see the elderly, pillar of the community GP as a serial killer.

Neither do we see the same man, happily looking forward to his birthday tomorrow as a likely suicide.

[j2k4]

Originally posted by leftism@13 January 2004 - 17:10

If he indeed committed suicide, the circumstance creates a bit of a dilemma for the anti-death-penalty crowd, if they choose to comment.

Their urge to blame someone, as long as it is not the good Doctor, should prove entertaining.

It doesnt create any kind of dilemma at all. It simply proves that death is the EASY way out for these kinds of people. This has been made quite clear by Mr Shipman choosing this option of his own free will.

Many of the victims families have been on national and local news expressing their anger.

They are angry because 5 years is nothing for ~200 murders and because they will never get to find out why he did what he did, and furthermore they are angry because he should have been stopped from choosing this easy escape option.

They seem to agree with the "anti-death penalty crowd". Death is an escape not a punishment.
Glad to see you still in tow, lefty.

I differentiate between those who believe the death penalty to be inadequate, punishment-wise, or have a religious or theological objection, and those who object to it merely because their heads are soft and mushy.

I would put the families of Shipman&#39;s victims in the former category. ;)

[1234]

BillyFridge, I am originally from Todmorden and am in a similar situation to you regarding relatives. In fact I myself was delivered by Shippman&#39;s practice in the town. The true number of people he killed is probably nearer 500 than 200, but we will never know as he refused to help police after his conviction.

It is that which angered victim&#39;s families the most, and they see his suicide as the end of any chance to find out if their relatives were murdered. Some see it as an escape from his punishment of life in prison as well.


I differentiate between those who believe the death penalty to be inadequate, punishment-wise, or have a religious or theological objection, and those who object to it merely because their heads are soft and mushy.

I would put the families of Shipman&#39;s victims in the former category.

Even on a topic as serious as this, we can rely on j2k4 to adopt an idiotic position insupportable by facts. As one of the people affected by this case I still oppose the death penalty, not because "my brain is soft and mushy" but because judicial killing is wrong. I also see no "dilemna" as he took his own life, the state did not kill him.

Like I said above, a lot of victim&#39;s families wanted him to rot in jail for life - not be given the quick out of an execution.

[lynx]

My brother is chairman of Hyde Utd FC (a small non-league club) and personally knew 2 of the victims for which Shipman was originally convicted, being regular supporters of the team. He tells me I knew one of them, but I can&#39;t honestly say I remember. I wonder how many more of the other 200+ victims were also supporters.

While obviously this does not compare to the loss felt by the relatives of the victims, the premature loss of so many of it&#39;s citizens must also have a detrimental effect on the local economy in what is a relatively small community.

[j2k4]

Originally posted by 1234@14 January 2004 - 07:29
Even on a topic as serious as this, we can rely on j2k4 to adopt an idiotic position insupportable by facts. As one of the people affected by this case I still oppose the death penalty, not because "my brain is soft and mushy" but because judicial killing is wrong. I also see no "dilemna" as he took his own life, the state did not kill him.


Not to hijack or go OT, here, but:

Why is "judicial killing" wrong?

1234-

I never said your brain was soft or mushy.

I merely suspect it to be true by virtue of your obsession with seeking me out for your vitriol.

My apologies to everyone else here for any appearance of callousness; I am bereft at the tragedy Shipman has wrought, and wish with utmost sincerity that the victim&#39;s families and friends could see whatever end would provide them comfort.

I also sincerely hope my condolences are not cheapened by any further remarks by 1234.

[leftism]

Oh please j2k4, you used this thread to put forward your "the noble Right vs the evil Left" philosophy like you do with most other threads around here.


Originally posted by j2k4&#39;s original post+--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td>QUOTE (j2k4&#39;s original post)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'>If he indeed committed suicide, the circumstance creates a bit of a dilemma for the anti-death-penalty crowd, if they choose to comment.

Their urge to blame someone, as long as it is not the good Doctor, should prove entertaining.[/b]

<!--QuoteBegin-j2k4
My apologies to everyone else here for any appearance of callousness; I am bereft at the tragedy Shipman has wrought, and wish with utmost sincerity that the victim&#39;s families and friends could see whatever end would provide them comfort[/quote]

Your so-called "sincerity" is sickening. <_<

[1234]

Why is "judicial killing" wrong?

Why is any form of killing wrong? If the state enforces it&#39;s will by killing people, why can&#39;t I?

However, judicial killing also falls foul of several other problems such as certainty of guilt and political interference at trials. If we had had capital punishment in the 70&#39;s in this country we would have a lot of dead, innocent, Irishmen. If we had it now, we might well have a lot of dead, innocent, Muslims. There are other concerns too, but those will do for now.


I never said your brain was soft or mushy.

You said people who oppose the death penalty not on religious, theological or on the grounds it&#39;s not brutal enough have mushy brains. I oppose the death penalty for none of those reasons, therefore you said my brain was "mushy". Are you trying to say you didn&#39;t say that?


I merely suspect it to be true by virtue of your obsession with seeking me out for your vitriol.

I will say once again - stop posting drivel and I will stop replying to it.


My apologies to everyone else here for any appearance of callousness

Apology accepted, just try not to do it again please.


I also sincerely hope my condolences are not cheapened by any further remarks by 1234

You came into this thread and insulted people, including people affected by his crimes like me. Don&#39;t try and pass that blame off to me, just apologise and leave the thread if you can&#39;t behave.

[j2k4]

Originally posted by 1234@14 January 2004 - 12:58
You came into this thread and insulted people, including people affected by his crimes like me. Don&#39;t try and pass that blame off to me, just apologise and leave the thread if you can&#39;t behave.
I insulted no one, 1234.

You have the over-developed sensitivity of adopted victimhood.

Regarding your last:

Have you become a mod without my noticing?

First, you pronounce that I am on thin ice ("VERY thin ice", if I remember correctly) then demand I traverse the ice in order to leave so that I might satisfy your pique?

Not bloody likely.

Again, my sincerest thoughts and condolences to the victims and their families.

[1234]

I insulted no one, 1234.

You know this how .... ?

You insulted me, by saying I had a mushy brain. Or are you trying to deny what your wrote? You also used a thread about a mass murderer and his victims to push your political viewpoint and spout insults about imaginary dilemnas.


You have the over-developed sensitivity of adopted victimhood.

Adopted victimhood? Ok you just insulted me again. Did you not read my post? I am from one of the towns where he murdered 100&#39;s of people, some of whom we suspect are in my family. Who the **** do you think you are talking about "adopted victimhood"? If this conversation was taking place in real life, you&#39;d need a damn ambulance at this point. This wasn&#39;t personal before, but you can bet it is now. I will make it my business to ridicule every worthless post you make and, contrary to what I normally do, I will report every post where you insult/belittle/swear or anything else that will get you banned.


Have you become a mod without my noticing?

If I had, you&#39;d notice by your inability to post.


First, you pronounce that I am on thin ice ("VERY thin ice", if I remember correctly) then demand I traverse the ice in order to leave so that I might satisfy your pique?

Where did I say that in this thread? Of course after your last post I do indeed think that. As for pique, if some idiot such as yourself attempts to belittle other peoples grief and incite people in a thread about a mass murderer then yes people get annoyed.


Not bloody likely.

Then you&#39;d better proof read everything you post a few times as I will be checking it to see if I can get you banned. Then I will get your next login banned, and the one after that.


Again, my sincerest thoughts and condolences to the victims and their families.&nbsp;

I accepted your apology last time out of good grace, this time you can shove your incredibly insincere apology and meaningless condolences up the same place you pull your idiotic statistics out of.

[J'Pol]

j2

I am not a victim, nor to the best of my knowledge are any of my family or friends, other than the fact that the whole of society suffers when it finds such as him amongst it.

So it probably goes for nothing, but I have not seen you post anything offensive enough for the reactions which your posts appear to have invoked.

I believe I have said this elsewhere (sorry hobbes) it is not for us to judge another mans pain. If people genuinely feel this strongly then it is a matter for them.

However that means they are reacting based on their own emotional response, which for the outsider (like me) may appear dis-proportionate to the words of others.

[1234]

So it probably goes for nothing, but I have not seen you post anything offensive enough for the reactions which your posts appear to have invoked.

So you don&#39;t think him saying "the over-developed sensitivity of adopted victimhood" is offensive to people who lost relatives? What is adopted about our victimhood?

You don&#39;t like me as we have opposite opinions on most things it appears. Ignore that for a moment and imagine if Dahmer had eaten your relatives, then this piece of refuse says your grief is an adopted affectation. Are you seriously telling me your wouldn&#39;t be damn annoyed at his insensitivity and appalling bad taste?


However that means they are reacting based on their own emotional response, which for the outsider (like me) may appear dis-proportionate to the words of others.

There is nothing disproportionate about it. He insulted the memory of my lost relatives and the grief my family feels for them.

[jetje]

Although not really wanna interfer let me remind you of these rules here in world events (Rules of engagement) (http://filesharingtalk.com/index.php?showtopic=72070) please, don&#39;t get personal&#33; and try to respect eachothers opinion without tearing the blood underneath the nails of the other ;)

have fun B)

oh on topic, too bad people (relatives of victims) will never know all now, a sad ending to a big tragedy... for all involved :(

[J'Pol]

Originally posted by 1234@14 January 2004 - 21:13

So it probably goes for nothing, but I have not seen you post anything offensive enough for the reactions which your posts appear to have invoked.

So you don&#39;t think him saying "the over-developed sensitivity of adopted victimhood" is offensive to people who lost relatives? What is adopted about our victimhood?

You don&#39;t like me as we have opposite opinions on most things it appears. Ignore that for a moment and imagine if Dahmer had eaten your relatives, then this piece of refuse says your grief is an adopted affectation. Are you seriously telling me your wouldn&#39;t be damn annoyed at his insensitivity and appalling bad taste?


However that means they are reacting based on their own emotional response, which for the outsider (like me) may appear dis-proportionate to the words of others.

There is nothing disproportionate about it. He insulted the memory of my lost relatives and the grief my family feels for them.
Not really sure what someone called Dahmer eating my relatives has to do with this, other than to inflame an already emotionally tense situation.

If you really want my opinion, if I were related to someone who was the victim of Dr Shipman (the actual person we are discussing) then I would not be discussing it on a trivial, peer to peer, file sharing internet forum. For the precise reason that I may get a reaction which would upset me in real life. Things have happened in my life which have been very traumatic, they will not be discussed here. It is however a matter for you if you want to discuss your real life traumas here.

If you chose to react the way you have and openly declare a vendetta against another member, then that is a matter for you. However I suspect your apparent hatred will do you more harm than him.

Oh and for the record I was expressing my opinion. It was done in a reasonable, non-offensive and non-inflammatory way. As to me not liking you, I can honestly say (and I truly mean this) that I cannot recall ever having argued with you.

[1234]

I didn&#39;t choose for this topic to be posted, just as someone who might know people from the WTC don&#39;t choose for 9/11 topics to be posted. However I responded in the same manner as another poster who lost relatives.

If anyone has a right to discuss his death, it is me and that other poster.

As for expecting to be insulted, nope not really. This is a tightly mod&#39;d board and I would expect the kind of crap j2k4 is posting here to be quickly pulled and knuckles rapped. It is hardly expected that someone would be as deliberatly offensive as he has been in such a thread as this.

As for the "vendetta" - I now see it as my duty, in my time on this board, to stop him doing it again to anyone else. All I will do is hold him to the rules of the board, nothing more.

[J'Pol]

Originally posted by 1234@14 January 2004 - 22:07
I didn&#39;t choose for this topic to be posted, just as someone who might know people from the WTC don&#39;t choose for 9/11 topics to be posted. However I responded in the same manner as another poster who lost relatives.

If anyone has a right to discuss his death, it is me and that other poster.

As for expecting to be insulted, nope not really. This is a tightly mod&#39;d board and I would expect the kind of crap j2k4 is posting here to be quickly pulled and knuckles rapped. It is hardly expected that someone would be as deliberatly offensive as he has been in such a thread as this.

As for the "vendetta" - I now see it as my duty, in my time on this board, to stop him doing it again to anyone else. All I will do is hold him to the rules of the board, nothing more.
What you chose to do was post personal details on a trivial forum. The fact that the opportunity was there did not force you to do so. That was a matter entirely for you.

I do not think he has been particularly offensive, this is my opinion and I fully support your right to hold an entirely opposite one. Compared to a lot of what I have seen here his posts did not even reach the innocuous, like I said earlier if your own sensitivity saw it differently, than that is to be expected. However your judgment is subjective.

When you say you will hold him to the board rules, how do you propose to do this. Presumably by using the same reporting system under which I have reported you.

[1234]

He chose to be offensive, he must learn there are repercussions. You might not have found it offensive, but that is utterly unimportant.

Yep I will report him for board violations.

I am aware you reported me, though I am also aware of why :) Lets see who&#39;s report is taken more seriously.

[GCNaddict]

[/B]
Originally posted by 1234@14 January 2004 - 16:58
You came into this thread and insulted people, including people affected by his crimes like me. Don&#39;t try and pass that blame off to me, just apologise and leave the thread if you can&#39;t behave.
1234, i know that this is a sensitive topic, but there is a concept you need to learn:

you are a n00b and that means that
you are <span style='font-size:30pt;line-height:100%'> in no position to tell us what to do or what not to do</span>

by telling ppl to leave ur thread, u acknowledge that you are an asshole

[1234]

Check our registered dates mate. Done that? Ok, now who is the "noob"?

Oh and reported of course.

[GCNaddict]

Originally posted by 1234@14 January 2004 - 21:55
He chose to be offensive, he must learn there are repercussions. You might not have found it offensive, but that is utterly unimportant.

Yep I will report him for board violations.

I am aware you reported me, though I am also aware of why :) Lets see who&#39;s report is taken more seriously.
btw, learn something. if u post personal shit, be prepared to calmly accept opinions on it, because trying to FORCE PEOPLE into SUBMISSION wont help you at all

[GCNaddict]

Originally posted by 1234@14 January 2004 - 22:00
Check our registered dates mate. Done that? Ok, now who is the "noob"?

Oh and reported of course.
toe one with the title of "Newcomer" (being you, 1234) in his member title, or being the one with only 1 star

post wise, you are a damned noob. learn, my friend

have a nice day

(btw the mods have been informed to close this topic)

[leftism]

GCNaddict proves beyond all reasonable doubt that there is no correlation between the number of stars next to your name and your intelligence :rolleyes:

Dont bother replying to him 1234, he clearly took leave of his senses quite some time ago. :lol:

I wonder though.. if someone on this board said that one of their relatives died in the WTC and I accused them of "adopted victimhood", would the response be the same?

If I didnt have certain standards, below which I refuse to drop, I might be tempted to test that theory out.

[1234]

Opinions? Opinions are fine, but calling someone&#39;s grief over their loss an "adopted" affectation is not opinion - it is intended to be insulting. Now if you can find anything in my posts that appear to back his claims, I&#39;d be more than happy to discuss it.

As for "forcing" people, I am not a mod. All I can do is ask a mod to review a post and see if it does indeed breach board rules. Their decision, not mine.

Btw sorry if my text is a bit dull, as I am obviously not as 1337 as you :(

[J'Pol]

Originally posted by 1234@14 January 2004 - 22:55
He chose to be offensive, he must learn there are repercussions. You might not have found it offensive, but that is utterly unimportant.

Yep I will report him for board violations.

I am aware you reported me, though I am also aware of why :) Lets see who&#39;s report is taken more seriously.
So, no matter how much I respect and support your right to express your opinion, mine remains unimportant. Fair enough, freedom of expression.

I reported you for ridiculing me in a thread which, to the best of my recollection I had not even posted in. Only going to prove that you are motivated by grudge and vendetta, rather than the issue being debated.

Why should one person&#39;s report be taken more seriously than another&#39;s. We are all entitled to feel aggrieved at the actions of others. However I agree, the mods and if necessary admin will adjudicate on who is behaving in a reasonable manner.

Again quoting myself, it is all there for people to read and make up their own minds about.

[J'Pol]

Originally posted by leftism@14 January 2004 - 23:07
GCNaddict proves beyond all reasonable doubt that there is no correlation between the&nbsp; number of stars next to your name and your intelligence&nbsp; :rolleyes:


Puerile insult, excellent if predictable tactic.

Some people never disappoint.

[hobbes]

That is how I read it.

And I should have read more, I found the twist.

edited because I was ignorant

[leftism]

Originally posted by J&#39;Pol+--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td>QUOTE (J&#39;Pol)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'>Puerile insult, excellent if predictable tactic.

Some people never disappoint. [/b]

Your showing your bias here J&#39;Pol.

If you really want to go on a mission judging peoples posts I would have thought that GCNAddicts would have been a good place to start :)

But dont pretend your judging my post without bias because your clearly not applying these &#39;standards&#39; equally to all.

@hobbes I think 1234 covered that issue.

<!--QuoteBegin-1234
You said people who oppose the death penalty not on religious, theological or on the grounds it&#39;s not brutal enough have mushy brains. I oppose the death penalty for none of those reasons, therefore you said my brain was "mushy". [/quote]

[J'Pol]

Originally posted by leftism+14 January 2004 - 23:50--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td>QUOTE (leftism &#064; 14 January 2004 - 23:50)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteBegin-J&#39;Pol
Puerile insult, excellent if predictable tactic.

Some people never disappoint.

Your showing your bias here J&#39;Pol.

If you really want to go on a mission judging peoples posts I would have thought that GCNAddicts would have been a good place to start :)

But dont pretend your judging my post without bias because your clearly not applying these &#39;standards&#39; equally to all.[/b][/quote]
You are entirely correct. I am biased against puerile insults. You are also correct that I apply these standards as I see fit. Thanks for pointing these things out, people may not have noticed them in my 7 quadzillion previous efforts.

Really funny the part about judging other peoples posts tho&#39;. Bit of a pot calling the kettle black thing.

Oh, sorry meant to say, do you disagree it was a puerile insult. You never said, or perhaps I didn&#39;t pick it up, what with the 76 year old brain getting mushy.

[leftism]

Originally posted by J&#39;Pol+--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td>QUOTE (J&#39;Pol)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'>You are entirely correct. I am biased against puerile insults. You are also correct that I apply these standards as I see fit. Thanks for pointing these things out, people may not have noticed them in my 7 quadzillion previous efforts.[/b]

So, will you be giving the same treatment to GCNAddicts posts? You remember, the one with the 7 inch high letters where he called 1234 an ASSHOLE and a NOOB?


Originally posted by J&#39;Pol@
Really funny the part about judging other peoples posts tho&#39;. Bit of a pot calling the kettle black thing.

You misunderstand me :)

I was not criticising the judging of peoples posts per se, I was just pointing out that if you are going to judge, then you should apply your standards equally to all posts regardless of who the author is.

Unless you dont think theres anything wrong with having blatant double standards?

<!--QuoteBegin-J&#39;Pol
Oh, sorry meant to say, do you disagree it was a puerile insult. You never said, or perhaps I didn&#39;t pick it up, what with the 76 year old brain getting mushy. [/quote]

GCNAddict made the case that having more stars gives you more rights/ means your have more intelligence or are just generally "better" than those with less stars. I was simply pointing out that his own words proved that theory incorrect.

[GCNaddict]

funny what happens when im on a bad mood

an apology to all mods out there and all persons who i may have offended

1234 is excluded from the above :rolleyes:

[J'Pol]

Originally posted by leftism+15 January 2004 - 00:06--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td>QUOTE (leftism @ 15 January 2004 - 00:06)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'>
Originally posted by J&#39;Pol+--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td>QUOTE (J&#39;Pol)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'>You are entirely correct. I am biased against puerile insults. You are also correct that I apply these standards as I see fit. Thanks for pointing these things out, people may not have noticed them in my 7 quadzillion previous efforts.[/b]

So, will you be giving the same treatment to GCNAddicts posts? You remember, the one with the 7 inch high letters where he called 1234 an ASSHOLE and a NOOB?

<!--QuoteBegin-J&#39;Pol@
Really funny the part about judging other peoples posts tho&#39;. Bit of a pot calling the kettle black thing.

You misunderstand me :)

I was not criticising the judging of peoples posts per se, I was just pointing out that if you are going to judge, then you should apply your standards equally to all posts regardless of who the author is.

Unless you dont think theres anything wrong with having blatant double standards?

<!--QuoteBegin-J&#39;Pol
Oh, sorry meant to say, do you disagree it was a puerile insult. You never said, or perhaps I didn&#39;t pick it up, what with the 76 year old brain getting mushy. [/quote]

GCNAddict made the case that having more stars gives you more rights/ means your have more intelligence or are just generally "better" than those with less stars. I was simply pointing out that his own words proved that theory incorrect. [/b][/quote]
So why exactly should I do things the way you say. I think I made it clear that I would apply my standards as I see fit.

Who exactly are you to tell me how I should do things. I do not recall any announcement in relation to your new found authority.

I see absolutely nothing wrong with having blatant double standards. That is how life works. If someone is constantly offensive and aggressive and comes in to work in their normal manner, then they will be treated appropriately.

If someone else is normally pleasant and one day they come in sporting a foul mood, people are more likely to assume that they have a reason. They will make allowances.

In my experience that type of person will return to themselves, normally with an apology and explanation (even if neither is sought). The naturally aggressive leopards spots rarely change.

I treat people in a manner which I deem appropriate. I do not treat everyone the same. I really think this is perfectly obvious, as I have never tried to hide it.

[leftism]

Originally posted by J&#39;Pol+--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td>QUOTE (J&#39;Pol)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'>Who exactly are you to tell me how I should do things. I do not recall any announcement in relation to your new found authority.
[/b]

So following your own logic, who are you to judge me? If you wish to do so then you have to accept the fact that I will treat you in a similar fashion. i.e. I will judge you.

<!--QuoteBegin-J&#39;Pol

I treat people in a manner which I deem appropriate. I do not treat everyone the same. I really think this is perfectly obvious, as I have never tried to hide it.
[/quote]

I treat people according to their actions and try to apply the same standards to everyone.

Your standards are based on favouritism, not fairness. e.g. You&#39;ve stated that j2k4 has done nothing wrong by saying that 1234 has "affected victimhood" because one of his family was murdered by Shipman.

Yet if I made the same accusation against someone who&#39;s family member died in the WTC you would not take the same stance. You may think theres nothing wrong with that, but I think its appalling and means you have no right to judge anyone.

[Rat Faced]

This has gone way off topic and this arguement, in my opinion is unfitting for this type of thread.

As JPol said, people get upset at different things..

1234 has every right to get upset, i may have in his position...however, I believe j2k4 has appologised for any offence he gave.

Every other post since then just seems to be inflaming the situation, and especially GCNaddict... those insults were uncalled for, you had nothing to do with the arguement.


I think its time this thread was closed.

You lot want to argue and call each other...do it in the lounge.

[Rat Faced]

To each their own.

My position is clear, as is yours.

Take care and God bless

I&#39;ll just add this that JPol was posting when i closed the thread..

Now...Closed ;)