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sharedholder
01-16-2004, 12:51 AM
December 03, 2003, 8:58 a.m.
Milky Way Days
Returning to the new frontier.

By Dennis E. Powell

When President Bush delivers a speech recognizing the centenary of heavier-than-air-powered flight December 17, it is expected that he will proffer a bold vision of renewed space flight, with at its center a return to the moon, perhaps even establishment of a permanent presence there. If he does, it will mean that he has decided the United States should once again become a space-faring nation. For more than 30 years America's manned space program has limited itself to low Earth orbit; indeed, everyone under the age of 31 — more than 125 million Americans — was born since an American last set foot on the moon.

The speech will come at a time when events are converging to force some important decisions about the future of American efforts in space. China has put a man in orbit, plans a launch of three Sinonauts together, and has announced its own lunar program. The space shuttle is grounded, and its smaller sibling, the "orbital space plane," may not be built. The International Space Station, behind schedule, over budget, and of limited utility, has been scaled back post-Columbia.

The content of the speech does not appear to be in doubt; the only question is timing. While those who have formulated it have argued that it be delivered on the anniversary of the Wright Brothers' first powered flight, there exists a slight possibility that it will instead be incorporated in the State of the Union address at the end of January. This has its own, less triumphant, significance, which is in the form of a chilling coincidence. Every American who has died in a spacecraft has done so within one calendar week: The Apollo 204 fire on January 27, 1967; the Challenger disaster on January 28, 1986; and the loss of Columbia on February 1, 2003.

If the president goes ahead with the plan to announce an ambitious new program to carry Americans beyond Earth's immediate gravitational pull, he will argue that the new lunar explorations are justified not only for what they themselves might produce but also as a means of developing the technology and skills necessary for a mission to Mars, which is expected to be mentioned, though in less-specific terms, in the address.

Observers might note a familiar ring to the proposal. On July 20, 1989, President George H. W. Bush marked the 20th anniversary of the first Apollo moon landing with a speech at the National Air and Space Museum in Washington in which he called for a permanent American presence on the moon and, ultimately, a mission to Mars.

That address led to the formation of a group called the "Space Exploration Initiative," headed by Vice President Quayle and NASA Administrator Richard Truly, which in the spring of 1991 released a report, "America at the Threshold." It set a long-term goal of landing Americans on Mars, with space activities in the interim leading up to that goal. First, it recommended, would be "Space Station Freedom" — now the ISS — followed by a return to the moon, in large measure to develop and test systems for keeping people alive on a Mars journey. The development of rocket boosters more powerful than the mighty Saturn V that lifted Apollo astronauts to the moon would be necessary, the report said, as would development of nuclear systems for providing power aboard in-transit spacecraft, and nuclear-powered rockets, to be employed outside Earth's atmosphere, where they could be used on long missions without the need to carry enormous supplies of conventional rocket propellant. None of the recommendations was carried out as envisioned at the time; the only one that got off the ground at all is the space station.

The president's speech could breathe new life into a moribund space program whose recent history has been beset by disappointment and failure. The space shuttle proved neither as reliable or as inexpensive as its proponents had promised. In 18 years of flight (the shuttle was grounded for 30 months following the Challenger disaster, and has been grounded since the loss of Columbia February 1), half of the original shuttle fleet has been lost to catastrophic failure, along with 14 astronauts. The cost of a shuttle mission has hovered around $500 million despite early claims that it would be much less and would allow payloads to be carried aloft for as little as $50 per pound. The launch schedule has been unreliable, with many space customers wondering if their satellites would ever get to orbit; in some cases satellites have remained on the ground so long that their power supplies ran down and had to be replaced before launch. The shuttle program has been so frustrating to scientists that it was characterized by Bruce Murray, former head of the Jet Propulsion Laboratory, as "a giant WPA in the sky."

Some critics say the space station offers little or nothing more, with a far-higher price tag. It is "international" as to the origin of some of its parts and some of its crew and, while the shuttle is grounded, the craft used to ferry the maintenance crews and supplies, but most of it is paid for by the United States. Some critics have argued that it is less a space station than an extension of the State Department.

Charles Krauthammer has noted that an orbiting United Nations is unlikely to be any less foolish than one fixed on planet Earth. "The moon and Mars are beckoning," he wrote in January, 2000. "So why are we spending so much of our resources building a tinker-toy space station? In part because, a quarter-century late, we still need something to justify the shuttle. Yet the space station's purpose has shrunk to almost nothing. No one takes seriously its claims to be a platform for real science." Establishment of a permanent moon base and research and engineering work toward a flight to Mars would certainly replenish the idea of a space program engaged in real exploration.

Whether a return to the moon would spark the public's imagination as it did in the 1960s is unknown. The world was transfixed July 20, 1969, as Apollo 11 landed and Neil Armstrong became the first man to stand on a celestial body other than Earth. But public and political enthusiasm for the moon soon waned. There were five more landings; the final three lunar shots were canceled. The last moon flight was in December 1972. No human has achieved escape velocity since.

A new space initiative would face numerous hurdles, including congressional Democrats who in the present political climate would be likely to challenge a presidential declaration that the sky is blue. Additionally, congressional distrust of NASA is vigorous on both sides of the aisle following the Columbia accident. Rep. Sherwood Boehlert (R., N.Y.), and Rep. Ralph Hall, (D., Tex.), recently asked that NASA stop work on the $13 billion "orbital space plane," a smaller, cheaper space shuttle, until Congress and the president agree on NASA's goals. Others in Congress have argued that the space shuttle should remain on the ground permanently. The fact that a revamped space program would employ many people — especially in places such as Silicon Valley, where unemployment among engineers is high — might blunt much criticism, however.

There are ideas and proposals that could offset concerns as to the value of returning to the moon and, perhaps, traveling beyond. Geologists are eager to take lunar-core samples, which could tell much about the solar system's past and how the moon itself was formed. It has recently been suggested that sunlight collected on the moon and beamed to Earth could provide a no-pollution source of power. Bill McInnis, a leading NASA engineer before he resigned in despair over shuttle-safety issues and ultimately took his own life, long lobbied for a return to the moon and talked of the search for extraterrestrial intelligence and the folly of putting our antennae on Earth. "The signals we're looking for are so weak that the effects of somebody turning on a light a hundred miles away are stronger," he said. "The place to do it, the place to be free of Earthbound interference — that's the other side of the moon. The moon is the ultimate space station, it is where we can really learn things." Certainly, long-term lunar experience would facilitate a trip to Mars.

NASA's budget has been far short of lavish since the last time the agency was aiming for the moon. The president has remarked to members of the White House space group that he does not favor a huge increase in spending for NASA projects. Whether he has changed his mind, and the extent to which he is willing to sell an ambitious new program of space exploration remains to be seen. If Bush does deliver the speech as planned, it would be another opportunity for him to finish business left pending when his father left office a decade ago.

— Dennis E. Powell is a freelance writer, currently at work on a history of the space-shuttle program.

Source (http://www.nationalreview.com/comment/powell200312030858.asp)

J'Pol
01-16-2004, 01:03 AM
Never thought of that.

clocker
01-16-2004, 01:08 AM
Gee Shareholder, your choice of articles seems fair and balanced in contrast to your choice of topic title.
Conspiracy theorist,eh?

<TROUBLE^MAKER>
01-16-2004, 03:13 AM
More contracts for the military-industrial establishment, cool my portfolio contains a large percentage of that industry. ;)

FuNkY CaPrIcOrN
01-16-2004, 03:17 AM
:huh: Can you still buy an acre of the MOON for &#036;1?I know you use to be able to. :huh:

clocker
01-16-2004, 03:42 AM
Originally posted by FuNkY CaPrIcOrN@15 January 2004 - 19:17
:huh: Can you still buy an acre of the MOON for &#036;1?I know you use to be able to. :huh:
I&#39;m not sure you can FC.

It doesn&#39;t really matter anyway.
If you look at the fine print you&#39;ll notice that your ownership rights were dependent upon your ability to develop the property within a specified time period.
I am assuming that you did not.

BTW, putting your 1971 Torino up on cinderblocks in the frontage road doesn&#39;t count as "developing the property".
Sorry.

james_bond_rulez
01-16-2004, 03:48 AM
it&#39;s gonna cost hollywood a lot more this time to make a film of Americans building a base there....

Filming technology does wonders nowadays :lol:

FuNkY CaPrIcOrN
01-16-2004, 03:48 AM
Originally posted by clocker+15 January 2004 - 22:42--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td>QUOTE (clocker &#064; 15 January 2004 - 22:42)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'> <!--QuoteBegin-FuNkY CaPrIcOrN@15 January 2004 - 19:17
:huh: Can you still buy an acre of the MOON for &#036;1?I know you use to be able to. :huh:
I&#39;m not sure you can FC.

It doesn&#39;t really matter anyway.
If you look at the fine print you&#39;ll notice that your ownership rights were dependent upon your ability to develop the property within a specified time period.
I am assuming that you did not.

BTW, putting your 1971 Torino up on cinderblocks in the frontage road doesn&#39;t count as "developing the property".
Sorry. [/b][/quote]
:lol: :P :lol:



No really.I am going to look into this.I mean yeah.A few hundred Acres will not be shit to us.But what about to our great great grandkids? :huh:

james_bond_rulez
01-16-2004, 03:51 AM
yeah... and meteroids and radiation from the Sun would really do them some good.... :huh:

FuNkY CaPrIcOrN
01-16-2004, 03:55 AM
http://seattlepi.nwsource.com/business/57344_lunar07.shtml

:D Check that guy out.Look what he has done.Imagine what the stuff will be worth in 100 years if people are just working up there.

Get it now.Before the Government takes it all.

FuNkY CaPrIcOrN
01-16-2004, 04:04 AM
Buy some of the Moon (http://www.lunarembassy.com)

:D Check it out guys.I am going to buy some Acres soon.Come on and join me&#33;Pass it on to your Kids or Nephews And Nieces. :D

clocker
01-16-2004, 04:15 AM
I&#39;m just going to burn &#036;16 and save the price of the stamp.

FuNkY CaPrIcOrN
01-16-2004, 04:26 AM
:D I am going to be so cool.People are going to look up at the MOON and say "FC owns some of that" :D

:P Sorry Ladies.You have to get your own Ride to my Property. :lol:

vidcc
01-16-2004, 04:33 AM
I&#39;m going to buy a house on the seafront and the first time the gravitational pull of the moon brings in an extra high tide and thereby floods my land i am going to sue all the people that own land on the moon for negligence &#33;&#33;&#33;&#33;&#33;&#33; :lol: :lol: :lol:

FuNkY CaPrIcOrN
01-16-2004, 04:35 AM
Originally posted by vidcc@15 January 2004 - 23:33
I&#39;m going to buy a house on the seafront and the first time the gravitational pull of the moon brings in an extra high tide and thereby floods my land i am going to sue all the people that own land on the moon for negligence &#33;&#33;&#33;&#33;&#33;&#33; :lol: :lol: :lol:
:o I better look into this. :o

:lol:

Rat Faced
01-16-2004, 06:30 PM
So what?

If someone settles "your" land, how are you going to serve notice to evict...none of the courts have juristiction.

As the people there will have their own law, which do you think they will accept as the legal owner: them or you?

Even if they accept you as owner...how you going to stop squaters? And if you dont notice people on your land for 12 years in UK, they have a legitimate claim on that land...whats the international situation on that?

On balance, i think i&#39;ll keep what little money i have... :P

vidcc
01-16-2004, 09:53 PM
http://www.nigelhumour.co.uk/mars.jpg

james_bond_rulez
01-16-2004, 10:23 PM
what rights do americans have over who owns what land on the moon?

how do u think wars had started? hum?

ilw
01-16-2004, 10:27 PM
lack of a prompt apology after spilling someone&#39;s pint?
waking up really early in the morning and putting your towel on a deck chair?

FuNkY CaPrIcOrN
01-16-2004, 11:32 PM
Originally posted by james_bond_rulez@16 January 2004 - 17:23
what rights do americans have over who owns what land on the moon?

how do u think wars had started? hum?
:D No.Anybody can buy Land up there.Get some now with me before it is too late. :D

vidcc
01-16-2004, 11:58 PM
Originally posted by FuNkY CaPrIcOrN+16 January 2004 - 23:32--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td>QUOTE (FuNkY CaPrIcOrN @ 16 January 2004 - 23:32)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'> <!--QuoteBegin-james_bond_rulez@16 January 2004 - 17:23
what rights do americans have over who owns what land on the moon?

how do u think wars had started? hum?
:D No.Anybody can buy Land up there.Get some now with me before it is too late. :D [/b][/quote]
but it&#39;s an American selling it &#33;&#33;&#33;&#33;&#33;&#33;&#33;&#33;

james_bond_rulez
01-17-2004, 12:07 AM
heh the great capitalism at work again :lol:

everything is up for sell.

i&#39;d like to buy ur wife please :)

Evil Gemini
01-17-2004, 10:39 AM
If you can buy land on the moon, who the fuck owns it atm ?? and why is it "theirs" ??

james_bond_rulez
01-17-2004, 10:50 AM
well nobody is gonna "protest" whose land is it as long as americans got the nukes point at you

keep u quiet and claim what is rightly theirs

isn&#39;t that the game plan? hum?

the moon is just one more convienent place to ... geez i dunno plant more nukes pointed at other countries without being tracked? <_<

Evil Gemini
01-17-2004, 12:07 PM
Originally posted by vidcc@16 January 2004 - 22:53
http://www.nigelhumour.co.uk/mars.jpg
I knew that damn clown was a martian&#33;

lynx
01-17-2004, 06:09 PM
It seems the search for WMD is getting a little out of hand. <_<

Busyman
01-17-2004, 06:41 PM
Originally posted by lynx@17 January 2004 - 19:09
It seems the search for WMD is getting a little out of hand. <_<
:blink:

Biggles
01-17-2004, 06:51 PM
Originally posted by Busyman+17 January 2004 - 18:41--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td>QUOTE (Busyman @ 17 January 2004 - 18:41)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'> <!--QuoteBegin-lynx@17 January 2004 - 19:09
It seems the search for WMD is getting a little out of hand. <_<
:blink: [/b][/quote]
:D

You never know. Saddam was so sneaky he probably thought Mars was the last place GW would look.

j2k4
01-17-2004, 09:18 PM
You all have forgotten:

We have already annexed the Moon through the cunning use of a flag.

(Apologies for my lack of facility with images)

vidcc
01-17-2004, 11:40 PM
Originally posted by j2k4@17 January 2004 - 21:18
You all have forgotten:

We have already annexed the Moon through the cunning use of a flag.

(Apologies for my lack of facility with images)
you an Eddie Izzard fan?

Biggles
01-18-2004, 12:58 AM
Didn&#39;t the Russians also annex a bit of the moon with a little robot flag? - think they did Venus too if I recall correctly.

hobbes
01-18-2004, 01:09 AM
Originally posted by Biggles@18 January 2004 - 01:58
Didn&#39;t the Russians also annex a bit of the moon with a little robot flag? - think they did Venus too if I recall correctly.
I think, I think, therefore, I think I am?

Nullius est numquam, numquam, numquam satis&#33;
http://www.townsend-records.co.uk/acatalog/billyidolbi.jpg

Biggles
01-18-2004, 01:21 AM
:rolleyes:

Err.. I was having an identity crisis.

Is that lyrics from and old Rolling Stones song?

hobbes
01-18-2004, 01:26 AM
Originally posted by Biggles@18 January 2004 - 02:21
:rolleyes:

Err.. I was having an identity crisis.

Is that lyrics from and old Rolling Stones song?
Sorry, I was taking Latin in the 80&#39;s. MTv had the slogan "Too much is never, never, never enough".

I had my teacher translate it into Latin for me.

William Broad aka Billy Idol was my favorite at the time and he did one of the spots on MTV.

I would like to think that I have gone as off topic as possible. Your signature just brought back flashbacks.

I&#39;ll get me coat.

Biggles
01-18-2004, 01:48 AM
:D

I read it as "none is never, never, never enough" it made me think of "I can&#39;t get no satisfaction" (not sure why).

I did Latin in school back in 1970/71/72. It was an old Victorian school (although the books were older I am sure). My memory of what I learned is patchy to say the least - I recall the dust hanging in the sunlight whenever anyone actually touched/moved or opened a book (or when the Latin teacher cuffed someone around the back of the head with one as was his wont - although he was actually a nice old geezer)

Well I will get me coat too, as it is now well off whatever it was about.

{I}{K}{E}
01-18-2004, 01:52 AM
Still I think it&#39;s useless to spend so much money on 1 f*cking moonwalk...

like the mars project lately.. it failt and lost how many billions of money ?? <_<


{I}{K}{E}

hobbes
01-18-2004, 01:54 AM
I may have posted shite, but it is accurate to the best of my memory.

Let me return the thread to its regularly scheduled programming: the moon.
http://w1.1396.telia.com/~u139602049/mooning.jpeg

I personally don&#39;t want to go there&#33;

Biggles
01-18-2004, 01:59 AM
None is actually nullus I will need to dig my old dictionary out for &#39;too much&#39;. The rest is sound so nullius might be too. Very sophisticated of MTV - what happened subsequently?

Three moons&#33;&#33;&#33; I knew I was on the wrong planet.

j2k4
01-18-2004, 03:17 AM
Originally posted by vidcc+17 January 2004 - 19:40--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td>QUOTE (vidcc @ 17 January 2004 - 19:40)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'> <!--QuoteBegin-j2k4@17 January 2004 - 21:18
You all have forgotten:

We have already annexed the Moon through the cunning use of a flag.

(Apologies for my lack of facility with images)
you an Eddie Izzard fan? [/b][/quote]
Yes, and I think the board now requires it, if I am not mistaken. ;)

<TROUBLE^MAKER>
01-18-2004, 08:24 PM
http://ffmedia.ign.com/spider-man/image/moonraker.jpg

james_bond_rulez
01-18-2004, 08:27 PM
:lol:

vidcc
01-18-2004, 08:36 PM
didn&#39;t Michael Jackson walk on the moon? :lol:

junkyardking
01-19-2004, 03:17 AM
Originally posted by FuNkY CaPrIcOrN@16 January 2004 - 04:04
Buy some of the Moon (http://www.lunarembassy.com)

:D Check it out guys.I am going to buy some Acres soon.Come on and join me&#33;Pass it on to your Kids or Nephews And Nieces. :D

Hope says no one can take him to court over his claims to the moon and planets, because the 1967 U.N. Outer Space Treaty also states that earthbound courts have no jurisdiction over matters on the moon.

I think he shot himself in the foot with that one, if they dont have any jurisdiction over matters on the moon how can he own any of it using earth laws?

ZeroTolerance
01-19-2004, 03:38 AM
why is it going to take 20 something years to go to the moon this time and not last time man step foot on the moon??????????//// :lol: :lol: :o :o