For Those Who Don't Believe In God

[Spindulik]

Alright, I'll start the thread.

Please, no religious preaching replies here. This is for the scientific (Atheist) person to post a reply.

I am not disrespecting anyone who believes in "God", or similar superior being, or mythology. Those people's beliefs are as important and as strong as my scientific knowledge and ideas.

A lot of people believe in Christ. I do too. He was probably a guy with the gift of gab, who never got married. And that's it. The rest of the uneducated people of the town were most likely attracted to his personality.


This idea that the entire world, as we know it, is only 6,000 years old is too hard for me to believe. It takes millions of years for the light emitted from distant stars to reach earth. I don't buy the dinosaur explanation offered by some religions. The truth is, earth actually existed millions of years ago, and the dinosaurs roamed the earth then.

What happened to the "Greek Mythology"? Are there any Greeks today that practice the belief in Zeus and all of those Gods? Come on, their religion is/was as important as any religion is today.

Sure, religion was an easy answer to the simple crowd in the old days. All they knew was that there was light to see and night to sleep. Air to breath, rain, food, water. The earth was flat. The moon "was there". What a place to live!! Perfect. Now, we all know that the earth is round like a ball, in the vacuum of space. The moon is reachable by man. The existence of life is DNA (only 4 chemicals in an infinite combination) in the correct conditions.

---------------------

I can go on forever with this. You Lounge geeks can fill in the rest with your ideas and theories.

[sparsely]

I think the christians are smarter than you.
their thread has a "Please Do Not Ruin" disclaimer.
sorry.
this thread is to be cast into the lake of fire.
there will be wailing, and gnashing of teeth.
thx.

[Spindulik]

Originally posted by Sparsely@18 January 2004 - 02:18
I think the christians are smarter than you.
their thread has a "Please Do Not Ruin" disclaimer.
sorry.
this thread is to be cast into the lake of fire.
there will be wailing, and gnashing of teeth.
thx.
They may be smarter, but common sense is required here. I assumed that the majority of people here are also polite, however, for some odd reason, intelligent posts seem to attract the low-lifes from the crowd.

[sparsely]

Originally posted by Spindulik@18 January 2004 - 00:21
for some odd reason, intelligent posts seem to attract the low-lifes from the crowd.
yes....and here they come now:

[AussieSheila]

<_< I choose to ignore you right now Sparsely.

I don&#39;t believe in God except when I&#39;m in trouble. Then it quickly turns to "Oh God&#33; Help&#33;" i.e. childbirth :)

I&#39;d like to believe in reincarnation and karma, but in truth I don&#39;t. :)

I think we came, we saw, we went. End of story.

B)

[evildon]

okay...


Not sure what your looking for here...We have several options to consider about the exsistence of Ghod...or God although there is a difference...


1.That he/she exsists...and is the christian God(BTW:some scholars believe Jesus was married because he is reffed to as RABBI in the Bible and during that time as well as today you arent called that unless you are married....and in some sects have reproduced.)

Of course God is depected as a male in the Bible..and the Bible does reenforce a pretty much male-dominated society.

I f God does exsist what about the Hindus and Buddists?..and the elder gods? what were they?How did the egyptian priests make their sticks to snakes? was magic real back then?..did the egyptian gods have power?

I proposed a theory to a christian friend of mine..."What if the 1000 yr reign of God has already happened..." According to the Bible God rules for 1000 yrs the takes up everyone to Heaven....except for the MEEK..They will inheirt the earth...no where does it say what shape it will be in nor that God will ever come back nor watch them...just that the MEEK get to keep it...what if we are descended from the meek?..What if the dinasaurs and Fossils came AFTER revelations?..We being descended from the meek would have the bits and pieces of knowledge from the first age....but that could become twisted and lost and confused and now we dont remember that we were left behind to take care of the Earth...just a theory....but that would make both Christians and Non-christians right....there is a god..but there isnt cause he&#39;s not watchin anymore...

Okay...Thast what u do with a theory...u say something and try to see if the facts fit..

2.There is no God...Superstition and myth....plausiable given the facts that we try to come up with grand patterens and strange explainations for things....and we try to figure everything out and things that we cant explain..well...we use magic or God or something like that.Humans on the Whole hafta have a reason or eplaination for everything...it&#39;s our nature..that and we fear death to such an extent that can&#39;t be the end...it&#39;s conforting to believe that we go on...



3.Somewhere in the middle...God is an alien force that is so much above us and alien(He&#39;s never been stood up on a date...made fun of because of some physical defect..etc)that we will never understand him...like an ant trying to figure out a nuclear bomb

Theory 2:God in the Old teatement didn&#39;t really understand humans..or emotions...He was suprised by Adam and Eve....really didnt understand why they did what they did..seems genuineally confused about Caine...etc...Mostly a war God in the OT....Jealous spiteful....It&#39;s not until he creates Jesus and Jesus walks the earth that he begins to understand what love is and how bad war is....If u read the OT and the NT God is Schizophrenic...OT:David...go kill EVERYBODY (BABIES TOO)..NT:Turn the other cheek...The Jesus theory fixes that...after Jesus dies he goes to GOd and says"Dad...WE GOTTA TALK..."

He explains that Humans like their skin..now to god only the soul matters..he could care less about physical suffering for the most part..but JC would tell him that humans like their clothes(Our bodies wuld be like a favorite shirt to god..yes its nice and all but u dont really need it)..but we ARE really attached to our bodies and the physical world..then god sends Jesus back and the new Love thy neighbor no longer hafta be a Jew church takes off....


Theory 3: God is an alien who made everything(God engineer theory) then started it the sat back...He created all the physical laws..including evenloution...pressed the start button and sat back to see what would happen.

THink of the universe like a lawnmower built by god..except this isnt meant to cut grass..its meant to make another HIM..hopefully in the end out of the spigot will pop one or more of HIMS...so he wont be alone and maybe even figure out how he got here..hell it might be circular time and this is HOW he did get made....

So...he need certain physical laws..time...energy...entrophy...motion..Einstein believed this one..God as a clockmaker BTW...So he makes the laws able to create and sustain life and laws to make sure it can evolve into higher and higher things IF they choose to and survive long enuf without killing each other...but he doesnt want to interfere..he shoulnt haft..the machine should be perfect...

Now here we have several sub options....Satan(or gods own doubt)...makes the machine not perfect..so he breaks his own rule and begins to meddle..Angels...age of miricles..finally Jesus.....in this theory think of your kid learning to ride a bike..and all the OT things and Jesus being akin to training Wheels...Now God takes the training wheels off(end of the age of miracles and Jesus dies..etc)Now we are riding the bike alone and we are wobblin back and forth..we might fall we might not....who knows?..will he catch us? will he let us bruise or knees so that we will be more careful or to see if we get back on the bike?(has it already happened see meek theory above..)

these are all just differnt theories the trick is to try to make one that fits the facts the dual nature of the NT and the OT and why god is so different..why the miracles(if tru)stopped...etc...

god could be just a little green man and this is just some weird lab experiment...

or we could just have made im up by a collective force of will..


my fingers hurt


ED

[evildon]

BTW:there is a website called Theskepticsannotatedbible.com(i mightave misspelled it) that you might wanna look at...


ED

[Evil Gemini]

The reason i dont believe in religion or god is because everything that is in life, can be explained with science. (except what was before the big bang)

(if you dont believe think of a question and google it :P )

I just dont understand it.

If we all know the truth, why do people keep reading the bible/s that was written by heaps of people and even has been modified to suit some one and then a new religion begins.

[Yogi]

God must be between my legs........

Only way i can explain my girl saying: Oh, my God&#33;&#33;&#33;


Yogs :P

[Mad Cat]

Originally posted by SensualGardening@18 January 2004 - 12:48
God must be between my legs........

Only way i can explain my girl saying: Oh, my God&#33;&#33;&#33;


Yogs :P
:lol: :lol: :lol:

[Yogi]

god gave man a brain and a penis,
but only enough blood to use them one at a time.

Robin Williams

[GCNaddict]

my ideas:
god created the earth 4.6billion years ago
God started life from nothing (little algae and stuff)
God had them evolve over 4.575 billion years into humans

God is still here&#33; its just that i dont think that God made the world in 7 days (especially when science proves otherwise)

I try to merge religion and Science together, to produce some sort of harmony that makes sense in my mind

[JONNO_CELEBS]

If you don&#39;t believe in god then..........clap your hands
If you don&#39;t trust the lord then............clap you hands
If you reject the possibility of an aiety then.......clap your hands
and join the Athiest Tabanacle chior

Spitting Image :lol: :lol:

Jonno B)

[DWk]

Interesting topic..... ok I&#39;m not much of a long-typer but I&#39;m gonna say some stuff now.

I do not believe something unless I SEE it. This makes me a scientist.

The bible was/is a book written by humans. Therefore, everything on the good ole book can be true or lies because human tends to do so (be a shaky column between truth and deception).

So here&#39;s my point. And I&#39;m gonna quote something from Devil&#39;s Advocate because I believe the actual argument of that speech gives:


Al Pacino&#58; ... Guilt is like a bag of fucking bricks. All you gotta is set it down... Who are you carrying all those bricks for anyway? God? Is that it? God? Well I tell you. Let me give you a little inside information about God. God likes to watch. He&#39;s a prankster. Think about it. He gives man instincts. He gives you this extraordinary gift and then what does he do? I swear, for his own amusement, his own private cosmic gag reel he sets the rules in opposition. It&#39;s the goof of all time. Look but don&#39;t touch. Touch but don&#39;t taste. Taste... don&#39;t swallow. And while you&#39;re jumping on one foot to the next, what is he doing? He&#39;s laughing his sick fucking ass off. He&#39;s a tightass. He&#39;s a sadist. He&#39;s an absentee-landlord&#33; Worship that? Never&#33;

Keanu Reeves&#58; Better to reign in hell than to serve in heaven. Is that it?

Al Pacino&#58; Why not? I&#39;m here on the ground with my nose in it since the whole thing began. I&#39;ve nurtured every sensation man has been inspired to have. I cared about what he wanted, and I never judged him. Why? Because I never rejected him. Inspite of all his imperfections, I&#39;m a fan of man&#33; I&#39;m a humanist.

I rest my case :)

Lot&#39;s of true reasons and facts.

[NikkiD]

I&#39;ve always looked at religion as a way to control the masses. When fear of punishment was no longer working, they had to come up with something... ah, yes... fear of eternal damnation&#33;&#33; Now that&#39;ll get em...

I agree that Christ was probaby a person, and that he was probably a great man, who had lots of followers. But I&#39;m disinclined to believe in God, the bible, and anything religious. I tried when I was young, I was actually raised Catholic, but the priests got very tired of me interrupting mass with laughter and skeptical snickers. I tried Catholic School for a while too... but they asked me to leave, because I disrupted religion class too much by asking questions. I thought that rather funny - isn&#39;t that how we as a people learn? By asking questions? I remember my religion teacher telling me once, "The wisdom of God is not to be questioned." My reply was, "If he didn&#39;t want us questioning, then he shouldn&#39;t have given us free will, huh?"

Being totally honest, I have no problem with religion, I do believe that some people need it for comfort and peace of mind. I don&#39;t need to have faith in something I cannot see or feel for peace of mind, I have enough faith in myself and those I love. The ONLY problem I have ever had with religion is when someone religious, be it Christian, Jewish, Buddhist or Muslim, tries to convince me that I&#39;m wrong. I don&#39;t force my beliefs upon anyone, in fact I rarely discuss them. I look it as I believe what I believe, you believe what you believe. We&#39;re all wecome to have our own opinions. I&#39;ve actually had people choose not to be friends with me anymore after learning my beliefs, actually some of my family as well. I question why this is. Does it make me a different person than I was before I told you? Not in the slightest. But my grandmother barely speaks to me now that she knows.

Okay. I know I have more to say... but I&#39;ll leave it for now. Besides I have visitors now :)

[DWk]

120% agree with you :) B)

[thewizeard]

Originally posted by GCNaddict@18 January 2004 - 14:27
my ideas: god created the earth 4.6billion years ago
God started life from nothing (little algae and stuff)
God had them evolve over 4.575 billion years into humans
God is still here&#33; its just that i dont think that God made the world in 7 days (especially when science proves otherwise)

I try to merge religion and Science together, to produce some sort of harmony that makes sense in my mind
God&#39;s days could be a little longer than our days...

[vidcc]

Originally posted by Evil Gemini@18 January 2004 - 12:35
The reason i dont believe in religion or god is because everything that is in life, can be explained with science. (except what was before the big bang)

(if you dont believe think of a question and google it :P )


So there is a God and his name is GOOGLE :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:


I have to admit that i am bordering on the side of doubting there is a God but i would never say for sure that there definatly isn&#39;t one because i am not so arrogant as to think i am always right ( i know, i must be on the wrong forum ).
I have seen too many bad things in person to believe and the explaination that God has a reason for me is total crap.

[RGX]

This debate is ultimately pointless, as our brains are too small to comprehend anything we cant see or have evidence of, or anything that doesnt exist in this universe, so we pig headedly make assumptions and force them on others :rolleyes:

(all IMO of course :lol:)

[Gemby!]

i once tried to change my teachers midn about evolution - didnt work:P

thats as scientific as i get

[Smith]

two words, big bang

[scottwile]

Originally posted by TheCanuk@18 January 2004 - 19:39
two words, big bang
i agree




god isn&#39;t real, there is no way he lives in the clouds, he would get hit by a plane :D

[internet.news]

Ok, I am thinking as one&#39;s mind is consisting of energy I probably would exist in a kind of energy, maybe some sort of ghost, but not something you can see. I mean, I belive already dead people could still see us, maybe. I don&#39;t love this, If I would be some sort of energy I would try not to look in everyone&#39;s house - I would even in death try to respect personal issues of ppl ;)

[evildon]

Originally posted by nigel123+18 January 2004 - 17:28--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td>QUOTE (nigel123 @ 18 January 2004 - 17:28)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'> <!--QuoteBegin-GCNaddict@18 January 2004 - 14:27
my ideas:
god created the earth 4.6billion years ago

God started life from nothing (little algae and stuff)

God had them evolve over 4.575 billion years into humans

God is still here&#33; its just that i dont think that God made the world in 7 days (especially when science proves otherwise)

I try to merge religion and Science together, to produce some sort of harmony that makes sense in my mind
God&#39;s days could be a little longer than our days... [/b][/quote]
If true it completely cjanges the entire contents of the Bible..What other terms don&#39;t maych ours?...Love? hate envy?...pain?..for true communication both parties hafta understand one another and KNOW the cultural/philosphical differences in their speech words syntax..time measurement..everything..one small inconsistency can doom understanding..

[evildon]

Religion is great to lean on unless it becomes a crutch


George Carlin

[x_gimpg]

God works in natural laws ie science. So why cant they both work in harmony? Every miracle would have a scientific explanition, but many have said the more we know, the more we realize we know nothing. Thats why i think there has to be a higher being.

[DWk]

Originally posted by evildon@18 January 2004 - 23:03
Religion is great to lean on unless it becomes a crutch


George Carlin
You mean when people start saying things like "God will provide the money, God will give me this and that (referring to material things)"?

[Cheese]

Originally posted by nigel123+18 January 2004 - 16:28--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td>QUOTE (nigel123 @ 18 January 2004 - 16:28)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'> <!--QuoteBegin-GCNaddict@18 January 2004 - 14:27
my ideas:
god created the earth 4.6billion years ago

God started life from nothing (little algae and stuff)

God had them evolve over 4.575 billion years into humans

God is still here&#33; its just that i dont think that God made the world in 7 days (especially when science proves otherwise)

I try to merge religion and Science together, to produce some sort of harmony that makes sense in my mind
God&#39;s days could be a little longer than our days... [/b][/quote]
It took god 4.575 billion years to finish making the earth?&#33;? I could have made it out of lego in that time...

[Spider_dude]

Originally posted by Withcheese+20 January 2004 - 01:28--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td>QUOTE (Withcheese @ 20 January 2004 - 01:28)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'>
Originally posted by nigel123@18 January 2004 - 16:28
<!--QuoteBegin-GCNaddict@18 January 2004 - 14:27
my ideas:

god created the earth 4.6billion years ago


God started life from nothing (little algae and stuff)


God had them evolve over 4.575 billion years into humans


God is still here&#33; its just that i dont think that God made the world in 7 days (especially when science proves otherwise)

I try to merge religion and Science together, to produce some sort of harmony that makes sense in my mind
God&#39;s days could be a little longer than our days...
It took god 4.575 billion years to finish making the earth?&#33;? I could have made it out of lego in that time... [/b][/quote]
has he finished? if god is a perfectionist would you say man is perfect?

[Wizard_Mon1]

Originally posted by RGX@18 January 2004 - 18:59
This debate is ultimately pointless, as our brains are too small to comprehend anything we cant see or have evidence of, or anything that doesnt exist in this universe, so we pig headedly make assumptions and force them on others :rolleyes:

(all IMO of course :lol:)
seconded ;)

[Cheese]

Originally posted by Spider_dude+20 January 2004 - 00:29--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td>QUOTE (Spider_dude @ 20 January 2004 - 00:29)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'>
Originally posted by Withcheese@20 January 2004 - 01:28

Originally posted by nigel123@18 January 2004 - 16:28
<!--QuoteBegin-GCNaddict@18 January 2004 - 14:27
my ideas:


god created the earth 4.6billion years ago



God started life from nothing (little algae and stuff)



God had them evolve over 4.575 billion years into humans



God is still here&#33; its just that i dont think that God made the world in 7 days (especially when science proves otherwise)

I try to merge religion and Science together, to produce some sort of harmony that makes sense in my mind
God&#39;s days could be a little longer than our days...
It took god 4.575 billion years to finish making the earth?&#33;? I could have made it out of lego in that time...
has he finished? if god is a perfectionist would you say man is perfect? [/b][/quote]
I dunno but my lego-world would rock, there&#39;d be giant robot dogs with freaking lasers....

[Gemby!]

do some christians believe in evolution ?

[evildon]

Originally posted by DWk+20 January 2004 - 01:24--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td>QUOTE (DWk @ 20 January 2004 - 01:24)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'> <!--QuoteBegin-evildon@18 January 2004 - 23:03
Religion is great to lean on unless it becomes a crutch


George Carlin
You mean when people start saying things like "God will provide the money, God will give me this and that (referring to material things)"? [/b][/quote]
Not sure..he was on a late nite show and heard the quote the next day..

ED

[Biggles]

Originally posted by gemby&#33;@20 January 2004 - 21:18
do some christians believe in evolution ?
Only the ones that intend to survive. :D

[DreamWeaver]

:angry: :angry:


lol

come on peeps lets have a lil fun

[Aphelos]

If some of you all don&#39;t believe in God, that means you all do not believe in the devil. And I hate to say this but as a race we have done some pretty nasty things that I would hate to believe were just from natural inspiration. For God&#39;s sake, the jews turned their backs on Christ and looked what happened to them 2000 years later.
6 million of them died and as funny as that may be to some it was done all by a very "stupid" man. When I say stupid, I mean come on, he would&#39;ve failed at everything else. He sucked at school, at life, at everything except prasing facism.
Another evident fact is that the bible calls the jews the chosen people. Now the bible is flawed and shouldn&#39;t be taken literally but the fact remains that Isreal beat down almost the entirety of the middle east by itself when everyone else said "ohhh their fucked."
There are obviuos signs that there are things far beyond our understanding.
And all science is, is trying to explain eternity in fifteen minutes. Not very realistic and in fact very arrogant.
All I&#39;m saying is that we should all find faith in something beyond ourselves, beyond nothing, money or power. Its better for our health.

:devil:

Someday we won&#39;t have to ask questions like these, we should all hate to see that day come.

[Biggles]

With a gap of 2000 years, cause and effect would appear a little muted.

Hitler cannot be taken out of his historical context. Millions of Germans felt cheated and betrayed by the Versailles Treaty. The failure of the Weimer Republic and in particular the hyper-inflation of the 1920s made it easy for simple answer politics to take root.

Hitler fought in WW1 and won an iron cross for bravery. He was a good speaker and could arouse passions. His politics were a mish mash of Teutonic silliness and good old fashioned "blame the foreigners". There is always a potential for someone to spout politics of hate. The circumstances that allow such people to take power fortunately are less common.

To blame some devil for our own tribalism and barbarity is dangerous. We need to face up to our own weaknesses and deal with them the best we can. As the Jews found out in the 1940s, no one else will.

[J'Pol]

Millions of Germans may well have felt cheated, however as I understand it he wasn&#39;t one of them.

[Evil Gemini]

Originally posted by evildon@18 January 2004 - 10:44
okay...


Not sure what your looking for here...We have several options to consider about the exsistence of Ghod...or God although there is a difference...


1.That he/she exsists...and is the christian God(BTW:some scholars believe Jesus was married because he is reffed to as RABBI in the Bible and during that time as well as today you arent called that unless you are married....and in some sects have reproduced.)

Of course God is depected as a male in the Bible..and the Bible does reenforce a pretty much male-dominated society.

I f God does exsist what about the Hindus and Buddists?..and the elder gods? what were they?How did the egyptian priests make their sticks to snakes? was magic real back then?..did the egyptian gods have power?

I proposed a theory to a christian friend of mine..."What if the 1000 yr reign of God has already happened..." According to the Bible God rules for 1000 yrs the takes up everyone to Heaven....except for the MEEK..They will inheirt the earth...no where does it say what shape it will be in nor that God will ever come back nor watch them...just that the MEEK get to keep it...what if we are descended from the meek?..What if the dinasaurs and Fossils came AFTER revelations?..We being descended from the meek would have the bits and pieces of knowledge from the first age....but that could become twisted and lost and confused and now we dont remember that we were left behind to take care of the Earth...just a theory....but that would make both Christians and Non-christians right....there is a god..but there isnt cause he&#39;s not watchin anymore...

Okay...Thast what u do with a theory...u say something and try to see if the facts fit..

2.There is no God...Superstition and myth....plausiable given the facts that we try to come up with grand patterens and strange explainations for things....and we try to figure everything out and things that we cant explain..well...we use magic or God or something like that.Humans on the Whole hafta have a reason or eplaination for everything...it&#39;s our nature..that and we fear death to such an extent that can&#39;t be the end...it&#39;s conforting to believe that we go on...



3.Somewhere in the middle...God is an alien force that is so much above us and alien(He&#39;s never been stood up on a date...made fun of because of some physical defect..etc)that we will never understand him...like an ant trying to figure out a nuclear bomb

Theory 2:God in the Old teatement didn&#39;t really understand humans..or emotions...He was suprised by Adam and Eve....really didnt understand why they did what they did..seems genuineally confused about Caine...etc...Mostly a war God in the OT....Jealous spiteful....It&#39;s not until he creates Jesus and Jesus walks the earth that he begins to understand what love is and how bad war is....If u read the OT and the NT God is Schizophrenic...OT:David...go kill EVERYBODY (BABIES TOO)..NT:Turn the other cheek...The Jesus theory fixes that...after Jesus dies he goes to GOd and says"Dad...WE GOTTA TALK..."

He explains that Humans like their skin..now to god only the soul matters..he could care less about physical suffering for the most part..but JC would tell him that humans like their clothes(Our bodies wuld be like a favorite shirt to god..yes its nice and all but u dont really need it)..but we ARE really attached to our bodies and the physical world..then god sends Jesus back and the new Love thy neighbor no longer hafta be a Jew church takes off....


Theory 3: God is an alien who made everything(God engineer theory) then started it the sat back...He created all the physical laws..including evenloution...pressed the start button and sat back to see what would happen.

THink of the universe like a lawnmower built by god..except this isnt meant to cut grass..its meant to make another HIM..hopefully in the end out of the spigot will pop one or more of HIMS...so he wont be alone and maybe even figure out how he got here..hell it might be circular time and this is HOW he did get made....

So...he need certain physical laws..time...energy...entrophy...motion..Einstein believed this one..God as a clockmaker BTW...So he makes the laws able to create and sustain life and laws to make sure it can evolve into higher and higher things IF they choose to and survive long enuf without killing each other...but he doesnt want to interfere..he shoulnt haft..the machine should be perfect...

Now here we have several sub options....Satan(or gods own doubt)...makes the machine not perfect..so he breaks his own rule and begins to meddle..Angels...age of miricles..finally Jesus.....in this theory think of your kid learning to ride a bike..and all the OT things and Jesus being akin to training Wheels...Now God takes the training wheels off(end of the age of miracles and Jesus dies..etc)Now we are riding the bike alone and we are wobblin back and forth..we might fall we might not....who knows?..will he catch us? will he let us bruise or knees so that we will be more careful or to see if we get back on the bike?(has it already happened see meek theory above..)

these are all just differnt theories the trick is to try to make one that fits the facts the dual nature of the NT and the OT and why god is so different..why the miracles(if tru)stopped...etc...

god could be just a little green man and this is just some weird lab experiment...

or we could just have made im up by a collective force of will..


my fingers hurt


ED
I just read the whole thing :)

The theory i made bold is very interesting.

[Biggles]

Originally posted by J&#39;Pol@4 February 2004 - 00:46
Millions of Germans may well have felt cheated, however as I understand it he wasn&#39;t one of them.
:)

True although as the Austro-Hungerians actually started WW1 perhaps he had a sense of guilt and empathy.

Being fairly loopy probably had a part to play too.

I think the dividing line between say an Austrian and a Bavarian is slim. I recall a match in the World Cup a few years ago between the two countries which demonstrated this better than any words I can muster. :blink:

[J'Pol]

Originally posted by Biggles+4 February 2004 - 01:52--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td>QUOTE (Biggles @ 4 February 2004 - 01:52)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'> <!--QuoteBegin-J&#39;Pol@4 February 2004 - 00:46
Millions of Germans may well have felt cheated, however as I understand it he wasn&#39;t one of them.
:)

True although as the Austro-Hungerians actually started WW1 perhaps he had a sense of guilt and empathy.

Being fairly loopy probably had a part to play too.

I think the dividing line between say an Austrian and a Bavarian is slim. I recall a match in the World Cup a few years ago between the two countries which demonstrated this better than any words I can muster. :blink: [/b][/quote]
I too remember said match (I think) a very embarrassing affair for both the countries and FIFA as I recall.

Not a great many shots on goal.

Anyhow, sorry for being facetious. I just find the whole reasoning behind the thread annoying. The opening post which suggested that to be an atheist was somehow a more scientific position than to believe in God is unfounded.

I really cannot abide sanctimonious atheism. It is often based on preconceptions with regard to what people who believe in God actually believe. It refuses to accept that we see some of the teachings as being apocryphal and appropriate to the times.

Strangely the sanctimonious atheist is as literal as the fundamentalist.

Forgive my wandering, the apple is strong in me.

[Biggles]

The evangelical atheist is a conundrum that finds me too late at night to contemplate.

I am agnostic with a degree of sympathy for those who find faith warms their soul and consequently feel moved to selfless consideration of others. I have little patience for heartless dogma whose primary goal appears to explain exactly why every other faith is wrong.

As an agnostic I tend to like the story of W C Fields, a life long atheist, who was found reading the bible on his death bed. "What are doing" a friend asked? "Looking for loopholes dear boy just looking loopholes" he replied.

[evildon]

Originally posted by Evil Gemini+4 February 2004 - 00:49--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td>QUOTE (Evil Gemini @ 4 February 2004 - 00:49)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'> <!--QuoteBegin-evildon@18 January 2004 - 10:44
okay...


Not sure what your looking for here...We have several options to consider about the exsistence of Ghod...or God although there is a difference...


1.That he/she exsists...and is the christian God(BTW:some scholars believe Jesus was married because he is reffed to as RABBI in the Bible and during that time as well as today you arent called that unless you are married....and in some sects have reproduced.)

Of course God is depected as a male in the Bible..and the Bible does reenforce a pretty much male-dominated society.

I f God does exsist what about the Hindus and Buddists?..and the elder gods? what were they?How did the egyptian priests make their sticks to snakes? was magic real back then?..did the egyptian gods have power?

I proposed a theory to a christian friend of mine..."What if the 1000 yr reign of God has already happened..." According to the Bible God rules for 1000 yrs the takes up everyone to Heaven....except for the MEEK..They will inheirt the earth...no where does it say what shape it will be in nor that God will ever come back nor watch them...just that the MEEK get to keep it...what if we are descended from the meek?..What if the dinasaurs and Fossils came AFTER revelations?..We being descended from the meek would have the bits and pieces of knowledge from the first age....but that could become twisted and lost and confused and now we dont remember that we were left behind to take care of the Earth...just a theory....but that would make both Christians and Non-christians right....there is a god..but there isnt cause he&#39;s not watchin anymore...

Okay...Thast what u do with a theory...u say something and try to see if the facts fit..

2.There is no God...Superstition and myth....plausiable given the facts that we try to come up with grand patterens and strange explainations for things....and we try to figure everything out and things that we cant explain..well...we use magic or God or something like that.Humans on the Whole hafta have a reason or eplaination for everything...it&#39;s our nature..that and we fear death to such an extent that can&#39;t be the end...it&#39;s conforting to believe that we go on...



3.Somewhere in the middle...God is an alien force that is so much above us and alien(He&#39;s never been stood up on a date...made fun of because of some physical defect..etc)that we will never understand him...like an ant trying to figure out a nuclear bomb

Theory 2:God in the Old teatement didn&#39;t really understand humans..or emotions...He was suprised by Adam and Eve....really didnt understand why they did what they did..seems genuineally confused about Caine...etc...Mostly a war God in the OT....Jealous spiteful....It&#39;s not until he creates Jesus and Jesus walks the earth that he begins to understand what love is and how bad war is....If u read the OT and the NT God is Schizophrenic...OT:David...go kill EVERYBODY (BABIES TOO)..NT:Turn the other cheek...The Jesus theory fixes that...after Jesus dies he goes to GOd and says"Dad...WE GOTTA TALK..."

He explains that Humans like their skin..now to god only the soul matters..he could care less about physical suffering for the most part..but JC would tell him that humans like their clothes(Our bodies wuld be like a favorite shirt to god..yes its nice and all but u dont really need it)..but we ARE really attached to our bodies and the physical world..then god sends Jesus back and the new Love thy neighbor no longer hafta be a Jew church takes off....


&nbsp; Theory 3:&nbsp; God is an alien who made everything(God engineer theory) then started it the sat back...He created all the physical laws..including evenloution...pressed the start button and sat back to see what would happen.

THink of the universe like a lawnmower built by god..except this isnt meant to cut grass..its meant to make another HIM..hopefully in the end out of the spigot will pop one or more of HIMS...so he wont be alone and maybe even figure out how he got here..hell it might be circular time and this is HOW he did get made....

So...he need certain physical laws..time...energy...entrophy...motion..Einstein believed this one..God as a clockmaker BTW...So he makes the laws able to create and sustain life and laws to make sure it can evolve into higher and higher things IF they choose to and survive long enuf without killing each other...but he doesnt want to interfere..he shoulnt haft..the machine should be perfect...

Now here we have several sub options....Satan(or gods own doubt)...makes the machine not perfect..so he breaks his own rule and begins to meddle..Angels...age of miricles..finally Jesus.....in this theory think of your kid learning to ride a bike..and all the OT things and Jesus being akin to training Wheels...Now God takes the training wheels off(end of the age of miracles and Jesus dies..etc)Now we are riding the bike alone and we are wobblin back and forth..we might fall we might not....who knows?..will he catch us? will he let us bruise or knees so that we will be more careful or to see if we get back on the bike?(has it already happened see meek theory above..)

these are all just differnt theories the trick is to try to make one that fits the facts&nbsp; the dual nature of the NT and the OT and why god is so different..why the miracles(if tru)stopped...etc...

god could be just a little green man and this is just some weird lab experiment...

or we could just have made im up by a collective force of will..


my fingers hurt


ED
I just read the whole thing :)

The theory i made bold is very interesting. [/b][/quote]
Yes it really fraked me out after i thought of it..a Catholic(sp?) friend of mine said he cant quit thinking about it...