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View Full Version : New Bin Laden tape on Al Jazeera.



Yogi
10-29-2004, 09:54 PM
http://www.aljazeera.com/cgi-bin/news_service/middle_east_full_story.asp?service_id=5400

What dou you think can be the influence of this on the election tuesday?



Who might profit??


yogi

Rat Faced
10-29-2004, 10:01 PM
Osama bin Laden appeared in a new videotape, aired Friday on Aljazeera satellite channel, reading a statement to the Americans, admitting for the first time that he ordered the Sept. 11 attacks on the United States.

Bin Laden appeared in the video with a long gray beard, wearing white robes, a turban and a golden cloak reading a statement in front of a plain, brown curtain.

This is the first time Bin laden appears in more than a year. The videotape came four days before the U.S. presidential election.

The FBI and Justice Department in Washington had no immediate comment on Bin Ladenís statement read in the video. Officials said one part of their analysis will focus on whether the statement implied a possible future attack against the United States. However, they said it was too early to predict.

The date of the footage of the tape couldnít be verified, however, it did refer to next week's presidential elections in the United States.

"We decided to destroy towers in America," bin Laden said, referring to the World Trade Center.

"God knows that it had not occurred to our mind to attack the towers, but after our patience ran out and we saw the injustice and inflexibility of the American-Israeli alliance toward our people in Palestine and Lebanon, this came to my mind," he said.

In his statement, Bin Laden accused President Bush of "misleading" the American people since the 2001 attacks on the World Trade Center and the Pentagon.

"Your security is not in the hands of (Democratic candidate John) Kerry or Bush or Al Qaeda. Your security is in your own hands," bin Laden said.

"To the U.S. people, my talk is to you about the best way to avoid another disaster," he said.

"I tell you: security is an important element of human life and free people do not give up their security."

"If Bush says we hate freedom, let him tell us why we didn't attack Sweden, for example. It is known that those who hate freedom do not have dignified souls, like those of the 19 blessed ones," he said, referring to the 19 hijackers.

"We fought you because we are free .. and want to regain freedom for our nation. As you undermine our security we undermine yours."

For those that dont want to bother linking to the story.

Yogi... You've surprised me...

You beat us all to that one ;)


I cant see it having any major affect, unless it makes some people realise that Bush basically left off that crusade to start a different one and turn from him...

On other hand, just as many will turn to Bush, as they'll worry about their security again..

Maybe the Americans will have a better idea of how it will affect their electorate...

Yogi
10-29-2004, 10:21 PM
Thanks for the quote!!:)

Kind in a hurry to have that scoop.............:01: :lol:


Your conclusion was exact the same as the dutch reporter in washington..:P


I hope it will make kerry win by 500 something votes in Florida.:lol:

vidcc
10-29-2004, 10:27 PM
Well only the hardlined few actually believe they hate us for "our freedom", although fanatical views such as that are more readily taken to the heart than the thought that our actions might be causing someone to hate us.... they hate us for being "christian" is an often used one.
I've long been saying in our debates that punishment alone is not the answer. we treat the symptom but the desease goes merrily along.

bigboab
10-29-2004, 10:29 PM
I hope it will make kerry win by 500 something votes in Florida.:lol:
It wont make any difference who wins, Yogi. The world is run by big business and so is every 'free' leader.:cool:

vidcc
10-29-2004, 10:32 PM
It wont make any difference who wins, Yogi. The world is run by big business and so is every 'free' leader.:cool:
I do wonder why people call the US president "the leader of the free world" when much of the free world has recently shown clearly he is not.

ruthie
10-29-2004, 10:54 PM
I don't think it will effect the election at all. Below, I've added the text of the tape, however Al-jazeera did not air the complete tape. I just heard that mention was made of the US casualties being over 1000.



Full text: 'Bin Laden tape'
An audiotape purported to be from Osama Bin Laden has been broadcast by the pan-Arab al-Arabiya and al-Jazeera satellite channels. In the tape the voice offers conditional reconciliation with Europe.

The following is the text of the tape as broadcast by al-Arabiya:

Praise be to Almighty God; Peace and prayers be upon our Prophet Muhammad, his family, and companions.

This is a message to our neighbours north of the Mediterranean, containing a reconciliation initiative as a response to their positive reactions.

Praise be to God; praise be to God; praise be to God who created heaven and earth with justice and who allowed the oppressed to punish the oppressor in the same way.

Peace upon those who followed the right path:

'Oppression kills the oppressors'

In my hands there is a message to remind you that justice is a duty towards those whom you love and those whom you do not. And people's rights will not be harmed if the opponent speaks out about them.

The greatest rule of safety is justice, and stopping injustice and aggression. It was said: Oppression kills the oppressors and the hotbed of injustice is evil. The situation in occupied Palestine is an example. What happened on 11 September [2001] and 11 March [the Madrid train bombings] is your commodity that was returned to you.

It is known that security is a pressing necessity for all mankind. We do not agree that you should monopolise it only for yourselves. Also, vigilant people do not allow their politicians to tamper with their security.

Having said this, we would like to inform you that labelling us and our acts as terrorism is also a description of you and of your acts. Reaction comes at the same level as the original action. Our acts are reaction to your own acts, which are represented by the destruction and killing of our kinfolk in Afghanistan, Iraq and Palestine.

The act that horrified the world; that is, the killing of the old, handicapped [Hamas spiritual leader] Sheikh Ahmed Yassin, may God have mercy on him, is sufficient evidence.

We pledge to God that we will punish America for him, God willing.

Which religion considers your killed ones innocent and our killed ones worthless? And which principle considers your blood real blood and our blood water? Reciprocal treatment is fair and the one who starts injustice bears greater blame.

'Bloodsuckers'

As for your politicians and those who have followed their path, who insist on ignoring the real problem of occupying the entirety of Palestine and exaggerate lies and falsification regarding our right in defence and resistance, they do not respect themselves.

They also disdain the blood and minds of peoples. This is because their falsification increases the shedding of your blood instead of sparing it.

Moreover, the examining of the developments that have been taking place, in terms of killings in our countries and your countries, will make clear an important fact; namely, that injustice is inflicted on us and on you by your politicians, who send your sons - although you are opposed to this - to our countries to kill and be killed.

Therefore, it is in both sides' interest to curb the plans of those who shed the blood of peoples for their narrow personal interest and subservience to the White House gang.


The Zionist lobby is one of the most dangerous and most difficult figures of this group. God willing, we are determined to fight them.


We must take into consideration that this war brings billions of dollars in profit to the major companies, whether it be those that produce weapons or those that contribute to reconstruction, such as the Halliburton Company, its sisters and daughters.
Based on this, it is very clear who is the one benefiting from igniting this war and from the shedding of blood. It is the warlords, the bloodsuckers, who are steering the world policy from behind a curtain.

As for President Bush, the leaders who are revolving in his orbit, the leading media companies and the United Nations, which makes laws for relations between the masters of veto and the slaves of the General Assembly, these are only some of the tools used to deceive and exploit peoples.

All these pose a fatal threat to the whole world.

The Zionist lobby is one of the most dangerous and most difficult figures of this group. God willing, we are determined to fight them.

'Reconciliation initiative'

Based on the above, and in order to deny war merchants a chance and in response to the positive interaction shown by recent events and opinion polls, which indicate that most European peoples want peace, I ask honest people, especially ulema, preachers and merchants, to form a permanent committee to enlighten European peoples of the justice of our causes, above all Palestine. They can make use of the huge potential of the media.


The door of reconciliation is open for three months of the date of announcing this statement.


I also offer a reconciliation initiative to them, whose essence is our commitment to stopping operations against every country that commits itself to not attacking Muslims or interfering in their affairs - including the US conspiracy on the greater Muslim world.
This reconciliation can be renewed once the period signed by the first government expires and a second government is formed with the consent of both parties.

The reconciliation will start with the departure of its last soldier from our country.

The door of reconciliation is open for three months of the date of announcing this statement.

For those who reject reconciliation and want war, we are ready.

As for those who want reconciliation, we have given them a chance. Stop shedding our blood so as to preserve your blood. It is in your hands to apply this easy, yet difficult, formula. You know that the situation will expand and increase if you delay things.

If this happens, do not blame us - blame yourselves.

A rational person does not relinquish his security, money and children to please the liar of the White House.

Had he been truthful about his claim for peace, he would not describe the person who ripped open pregnant women in Sabra and Shatila [reference to Israeli Prime Minister Ariel Sharon] and the destroyer of the capitulation process [reference to the Palestinian-Israeli peace process] as a man of peace.


Reality proves our truthfulness and his [George Bush's] lie.


He also would not have lied to people and said that we hate freedom and kill for the sake of killing. Reality proves our truthfulness and his lie.
The killing of the Russians was after their invasion of Afghanistan and Chechnya; the killing of Europeans was after their invasion of Iraq and Afghanistan; and the killing of Americans on the day of New York [reference to 11 September] was after their support of the Jews in Palestine and their invasion of the Arabian Peninsula.

Also, killing them in Somalia was after their invasion of it in Operation Restore Hope. We made them leave without hope, praise be to God.

It is said that prevention is better than cure. A happy person is he who learns a lesson from the experience of others.

Heeding right is better than persisting in falsehood.

Peace be upon those who follow guidance.

scroff
10-29-2004, 11:13 PM
If you take out all the praise gods and peace be withs... he's right.

It could have an effect on many peoples votes, those precious undecideds...

Yogi
10-29-2004, 11:14 PM
It wont make any difference who wins, Yogi. The world is run by big business and so is every 'free' leader.:cool:
Couldn't agree more.

However, i think the world is better off without bush.

scroff
10-29-2004, 11:15 PM
However, i think the world is better off without bush Amen!

Neo 721
10-29-2004, 11:25 PM
Amen!
Pitty it wasnt the world who voted in the US elections.

bigboab
10-29-2004, 11:30 PM
Couldn't agree more.

However, i think the world is better off without bush.

You have sent me to bed laughing Yogi. I just dont believe you just said that.:rolleyes:

sArA
10-29-2004, 11:53 PM
For this to be released within a matter of a few days of Arafat's illness announcement, and him going to France...

It makes me concerned that there is going to be trouble.... :(

h121589
10-30-2004, 02:18 AM
for real wtf is he sayin

but on the news he translate it in english

kAb
10-30-2004, 05:25 AM
Does anybody else get the feeling that Bin Laden sounds... well kind of shutdown?

The "we only attack countries that attack us" is a hell of a lot different than the previous message "all infidels will die"... is he looking for a truce cause he realizes how weak al-qaeda really is?

Btw, this can only help Kerry.

ruthie
10-30-2004, 05:40 AM
Does anybody else get the feeling that Bin Laden sounds... well kind of shutdown?

The "we only attack countries that attack us" is a hell of a lot different than the previous message "all infidels will die"... is he looking for a truce cause he realizes how weak al-qaeda really is?

Btw, this can only help Kerry.

al-qaeda weak? I don't think so..they are all over the world. He did have an interesting tone in this tape, though. I don't see how this will assist either candidate

MagicNakor
10-30-2004, 09:02 AM
I seem to recall an earlier tape with a very similar offering of reconciliation.

:shuriken:

lynx
10-30-2004, 09:05 AM
I seem to recall an earlier tape with a very similar offering of reconciliation.

:shuriken:So do I.

Didn't the Madrid bombings take place shortly after that reconciliation period expired?

manker
10-30-2004, 10:18 AM
If you take out all the praise gods and peace be withs... he's right.
I suggest you rephrase that.

Unless you believe that ending circa 3,000 innocent lives is also justified, as OBL is preaching in that clear threat to kill even more civillians if his terms are not met. You can't have it both ways.

This is the guy who is responsible for atrocities worse than those doled out by the coalition force yet you laud him as 'right' when he justifies his past actions and threatens more of the same. To me condemning this statement is a no-brainer.

His sentiment may have some merit but his methods do not.

MagicNakor
10-30-2004, 10:53 AM
So do I.

Didn't the Madrid bombings take place shortly after that reconciliation period expired?


Hmm. I'm not sure. I know that tape was also discussed here, but appears to have been lost in a cull.

I'll wait until I get home before I start seeing if the dates correspond. ;) If they did, it certainly would be interesting.

:shuriken:

ilw
10-30-2004, 12:12 PM
This bbc journalist seems to think it might favour bush in the end...

For the American voter, this tape - rolled like a political hand grenade into the closing moments of the election campaign - might have two opposite meanings. It might mean that the "war on terror" has failed: the leadership of al-Qaeda appears free to operate and articulate its message three years after the "war" was declared. In turn, that might bolster a support for change, and a Democratic president - John Kerry. But it could, however, have the opposite effect.

Voters might perceive it as affirmation of President George W Bush's stance that the terrorist threat is very much alive. And that could cause undecided voters to break towards Mr Bush in affirmation of his war on terror, and the policies he espouses to pursue it. Of crucial importance now is the way that both campaigns handle the tape, the way they describe it, draw conclusions from it, and spin it to the voters.

The Republicans probably have the easier job here. Nothing Bin Laden says on the tape fundamentally challenges or changes the administration's assumptions about the war on terror. Everything he says seems to bolster the importance and significance of the war on terror. It brings to life to the idea that terrorism is still a threat to the US, and that Mr Bush is correct to frame his presidency in terms of America's security.

For the Democrats, the job is much more difficult. Many of the criticisms and observations made by Bin Laden in this tape - that President Bush is untruthful, that he has mismanaged the war on terror - are themes that appear in the Democratic campaign. Mr Kerry cannot afford to even remotely appear to be capitalising on this tape, or echoing sentiments in it. His most likely response is to repeat his assertion that the war in Iraq has been a diversion; that the real threat is Bin Laden; and after three years he is still making threats while American forces are overstretched in Iraq.

We know that voters, when questioned about national security, place greater faith in Mr Bush than in Mr Kerry. The impact of the tape on the closing moments of the campaign will only become clear in the next day or two. But it would be wrong to assume that it is all bad news for Mr Bush's re-election chances.

ruthie
10-30-2004, 05:47 PM
I suggest you rephrase that.

Unless you believe that ending circa 3,000 innocent lives is also justified, as OBL is preaching in that clear threat to kill even more civillians if his terms are not met. You can't have it both ways.

This is the guy who is responsible for atrocities worse than those doled out by the coalition force yet you laud him as 'right' when he justifies his past actions and threatens more of the same. To me condemning this statement is a no-brainer.

His sentiment may have some merit but his methods do not.


The key here, for me at least, is your last statement, manker. His methods are abhorrant, but I understand what he is saying. I do not, in any way, "approve of " bin Laden or his actions. some of the statements, questions he asked/made are quite understandable, such as
"Which religion considers your killed ones innocent and our killed ones worthless? And which principle considers your blood real blood and our blood water?"

Rat Faced
10-30-2004, 05:56 PM
I would also wonder if 3000 deaths at WTC is a worse atrocity than 100,000's dying due to lack of medical aid and due to the bombing of Water Purification Plants between the 2 Iraq wars...

I find both shocking and horror filled... but at least the 3000 deaths were quick ones, relatively speaking.

Deaths of any innocents, under any guise, is just as disgusting to me.

scroff
10-30-2004, 05:57 PM
I suggest you rephrase that.

Unless you believe that ending circa 3,000 innocent lives is also justified, as OBL is preaching in that clear threat to kill even more civillians if his terms are not met. You can't have it both ways.

This is the guy who is responsible for atrocities worse than those doled out by the coalition force yet you laud him as 'right' when he justifies his past actions and threatens more of the same. To me condemning this statement is a no-brainer.

His sentiment may have some merit but his methods do not.
He's right. If I am objective and just read his words, he's right. Is killing thousands of innocent Iraqis any more justified because we do it wearing a uniform with fancy high tech weapons and in the "name" of an established state? He is threatening to kill more of us, but in our American arrogance we won't even consider what he is saying, won't even consider his points. We write him off as a "savage" (Kerry's word) instead.

911 was an oportunity to review what we do throughout the world, not just the mid-east, and see where we fall far short of our supposed values, but we missed it.

scroff
10-30-2004, 06:06 PM
I would also wonder if 3000 deaths at WTC is a worse atrocity than 100,000's dying due to lack of medical aid and due to the bombing of Water Purification Plants between the 2 Iraq wars...

I find both shocking and horror filled... but at least the 3000 deaths were quick ones, relatively speaking.

Deaths of any innocents, under any guise, is just as disgusting to me.
Hmmmmm, beat me to it didn't ya...

Skillian
10-30-2004, 06:14 PM
The BBc reporting of the story has this translation of the extracts aired on Al Jazeera:


Oh American people, my talk to you is about the best way to avoid another Manhattan, about the war, its causes, and results.

Security is an important pillar of human life. Free people do not relinquish their security. This is contrary to Bush's claim that we hate freedom.

Let him tell us why we did not strike Sweden, for example. It is known that those who hate freedom do not have proud souls, like the souls of the 19 people [killed while perpetrating the 11 September 2001 attacks], may God have mercy on them.

We fought you because we are free and do not accept injustice. We want to restore freedom to our nation. Just as you waste our security, we will waste your security.

'Striking the towers'

I am amazed at you. Although almost four years have passed since the [11 September] incidents, Bush is still practising distortion and confusion.

He also continues to conceal from you the real reason [for the 11 September attacks]. Thus, the motives still exist for repeating what happened.

I will speak to you about the reasons behind these incidents. I will honestly tell you about the minutes in which the decision was made so that you will consider. I say to you that God knows that the idea of striking the towers never occurred to us.


Your security is in your own hands

But, after things had gone too far and we saw the injustice of the US-Israeli alliance against our people in Palestine and Lebanon, I started thinking of that.

The events that influenced me directly trace back to 1982 and subsequent events when the United States gave permission to the Israelis to invade Lebanon, with the aid of the sixth US fleet.

At those difficult moments, many meanings that are hard to describe went on in my mind. However, these meanings produced an overwhelming feeling to reject injustice and generated a strong determination to punish the unjust ones.

While I was looking at those destroyed towers in Lebanon, it occurred to me to punish the unjust one in a similar manner by destroying towers in the United States so that it would feel some of what we felt and to be deterred from killing our children and women...

We did not find it difficult to deal with Bush and his administration, because it is similar to regimes in our countries, half of which are governed by the military and the other half of which are governed by the sons of kings and presidents; and we have a long experience with them.

In both categories, you find many who are characterised by hubris, arrogance, greed, and unlawful acquisition of money. This similarity transpired since Bush Senior's visit to the region.

'Election rigging'

While some of our people were dazzled by the United States and hoped that these visits would affect our countries, he, instead, was affected by these royal and military regimes, envying them for remaining in their posts for scores of years, embezzling public money without being held accountable or monitored.

Accordingly, he transferred dictatorship and the repression of freedoms to his son by introducing the Patriot Act under the pretext of fighting terrorism.

Bush Senior deemed it appropriate to assign his sons to states. He also did not forget to convey the [election] rigging experience from the leaders of the [Arab] region to Florida to benefit from it at critical times...

We had agreed with the chief amir [leader - of the 11 September hijackers] Mohammed Atta that he should accomplish all the operations within 20 minutes before Bush and his administration could take notice.

It never occurred to us that the supreme commander of the US armed forces would leave 50,000 of his citizens in the two towers to face those great horrors alone, at a time when they needed him badly.

This is because it seemed to him that being preoccupied with the little child's talk about her goat and its butting was more important than being preoccupied with the planes and their ramming into the skyscrapers.

This gave with three times the period required for carrying out the operations, praise be to God.

Your security does not lie in the hands of Kerry, Bush, or al-Qaeda. Your security is in your own hands. Each and every state that does not tamper with our security will have automatically assured its own security

It is strange when you find yourself agreeing with many of the points made by someone you have always been told is an evil madman. Of course I will never find myself agreeing with his methods.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/middle_east/3966817.stm

DanB
10-30-2004, 07:01 PM
The BBc reporting of the story has this translation of the extracts aired on Al Jazeera:



It is strange when you find yourself agreeing with many of the points made by someone you have always been told is an evil madman. Of course I will never find myself agreeing with his methods.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/middle_east/3966817.stm


Isn't it just :huh:

MagicNakor
10-30-2004, 11:21 PM
Bin Laden's peace treaty for Europe was aired April 15, 2004, just a little over a month *after* the Madrid bombing, which was March 11, 2004.

There goes that theory, then.

:shuriken:

BigBank_Hank
10-31-2004, 12:01 AM
Something that no one ever has brought up here is why is it that every time a terrorist tape is aired Al Jazeera always seems to break the story. To me this is more than a coincidence.

scroff
10-31-2004, 12:24 AM
Something that no one ever has brought up here is why is it that every time a terrorist tape is aired Al Jazeera always seems to break the story. To me this is more than a coincidence.
Who should he send it to... Fox?

Dr Wily
10-31-2004, 02:37 AM
This is because it seemed to him that being preoccupied with the little child's talk about her goat and its butting was more important than being preoccupied with the planes and their ramming into the skyscrapers.
I always thought someone like Osama would make the ideal Mikey Moore fan.

vidcc
10-31-2004, 02:49 PM
one thing occurs....... the october "suprise" theorist that said Osama would appear miraculously just before the election......they were right

Biggles
10-31-2004, 02:58 PM
Something that no one ever has brought up here is why is it that every time a terrorist tape is aired Al Jazeera always seems to break the story. To me this is more than a coincidence.

Because it is the only major pan-Arabic Satellite channel? They are also probably aware that a lot of their watchers are interested in this stuff. It is like a Western group sending stuff to the BBC or ABC. You go to who is reaching the widest audience.

If you are suggesting there is a direct link between AQ and the station I think you are mistaken. They run material from all the factions in the region. It would, howver, be fair to say that their editorial slant is pro-Arab. Not exactly a shock though.