BBC:" New claim on location of Atlantis"

[ahctlucabbuS]

Bring back world news and events please.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/europe/4011545.stm

Interesting :01:

[manker]

You could have posted it in The Drawing Room.

It is very interesting, although I don't believe this is all that accurate, it is probably some remnants of what existed before the Santorini explosion.

Also that article mentions Plato but it fails to state that Plato clearly said that Atlantis lies beyond the shoulders of Heracles (Gibraltar) - not in the Med, then.

In any case, everyone already knows that if Atlantis existed at all then it was located in Antarctica, before the ice sheets. How else can a total lack of archaeological evidence be explained.

[Vargas]

i remember reading there used to be a jade route that was up north, and they thought that might be where it was, somewhere in the north atlantic or artic.

[lynx]

Probably under the ice, but in Greenland, not Antarctica.

[Biggles]

As I understand it, the argument is that human civilisation stretches back a few thousand years earlier than we currntly hold records for and that at the end of the last ice age cica 11,000 years ago the sea levels rose by nearly 300 feet. The argument goes that as is the case today, almost all major settlements were coastal and were covered by the rising sea levels - hence the flood myths. The levels rose quickly enough to cover the settlements but not so quick as to wipe people out.

I believe there is some chap that writes about this and has made a couple of TV programmes - he will be extremely moist at this discovery. Of course if this is true and an early city has been found near Cyprus it may well prove his theory but the city might not be Atlantis but simply a provincial outpost. It stands to reason that if the theory is sound there will be more than one drowned city. (imho :blushing: )

Anyways, I saw a TV prog that suggests Atlantis was flown to the other side of the Universe. :unsure:

[Rat Faced]

There are a few underwater cities around the world..

Watched an entire series on underwater archaeology a couple of years ago showing some, in all corners of the world.

Some were very advanced civilizations for their age..

[bigboab]

What if the 'Shoulders Of Heracles was not Gibralter. But somewhere in the Med. Remember that there are a lot of cities under the MED. We know this to be true. If these cities were above the sea then it is possible that another area could fit the description of the 'Shoulders Of Heracles'. Just a thought.:cool:

[manker]

That is a good point, Boab. I forget the guy's name who propagates the theory that the Atlantis was in the Mediterranean but he makes a similar claim. There is some evidence that there was advanced civilisation on Crete and the surrounding islands a long time - millenia - before Sumer and Egypt.

My preferred theory is that Antarctica was once 2000 miles North of it's current position and housed Atlantis - at least I believe it is the most plausible theory. I am not entirely convinced of it's existence but in that area there have been massive techtonic shifts and it would explain a few things concerning the prevalence of flood myths in almost all civilisations and the apparent technological superiority of both Ancient Egyptians and South Americans circa 3-2000BC c.f. more recent counterparts.

[Rat Faced]

Mesopotamia knew more about Astronomy in 4000 BC than we did just a couple of hundred years ago.. hell less than 100 years ago.

Their Astonomers knew the colour of all the planets... and remember Pluto was only discovered last century, and we havent known about all their colours for more than a few years...

They knew the orbits and numbered them... interestingly enough Mercury was number 10, not 1 or 9 :ph34r: ...and there is a theory that there is another planet after Pluto, due to the orbits of the other planets...

I'd love to know how the hell they knew these things 6000 years ago :whistling


/me wanders off to watch the X Files on Sky One...

[Barbarossa]

They knew the orbits and numbered them... interestingly enough Mercury was number 10, not 1 or 9 :ph34r: ...and there is a theory that there is another planet after Pluto, due to the orbits of the other planets...


Well, I guess we've discovered Sedna now to fill that gap, but in reality, Sedna, like Pluto (and Charon, its "moon"), are simply large examples of Kuiper Belt objects, orbiting the sun at the very distant edges of the solar system, and there are billions of them..

[Rat Faced]

If Sedna is a planet, then Quaoar, 2004 DW and Varuna should be... they are larger than Sedna and closer..

The trouble is that there is no universally recognised definition of "Planet"..

Pluto isnt a planet by some definitions either..

[Rat Faced]

On Topic...

On the information that is available, bearing in mind that no one actually knows anything, i'd say that Santorini ihas a good chance of being Atlantis..

Plato described it as a City surrounded by water, and that it had disappeared in a catastrophy.

Santorini had a lake connected to the Mediterranian by a canal, and a large Island in the centre of this lake that held part of the Minoan Civilisation, until the largest known Volcanic Eruption in about 1400BC (which also matches the date Plato claimed it sank) blew the Island apart and turned it into a crecent shape.

The Egyptions also knew of the Atlantians and called them the sea people.. archeologists have uncovered plenty of evidence that the Minoans on Santorini traded with the Egyptions, and is close enough to the rest of the Greek Myths to fullfill most of their claims.

[Barbarossa]

If Sedna is a planet, then Quaoar, 2004 DW and Varuna should be... they are larger than Sedna and closer..

The trouble is that there is no universally recognised definition of "Planet"..

Pluto isnt a planet by some definitions either..

Maybe the aliens have a more logical system of classification... :alien: :alien: :alien:

on topic.. :blushing: I agree about santorini.. :)

[manker]

Plato said that Atlantis sank circa 10000BC. Santorini may have been the basis for some Atlantean legend but to cite Plato as a source to promote Santorini as Atlantis contradicts this.

Egyptians called everyone Sea People if they came to Egypt by boat. To state that the Sea People were from Atlantis cannot be wholly correct, and that's being kind.

[Rat Faced]

I was always told he was telling a story about 1000 years before him, ie: 1000 + 400 BC = 1400 BC..

This is backed by the fact that he stated that there was a war between Athens and Atlantis..

Athens didnt exist as a "City State" until the Geometric Period (900-700 BC), and if we take the rise of civilisation on mainland Greece, then the earliest is Mycenaean in the late Bronze age.. eg: about 2500 years ago.

Its known that the Minoan Civilization is earlier on the Greek Islands, however if you take it as Minoan then it would have been a civil war which isnt that which is indicated.

All archaelogy so far found seems to indicate that circa 10,000 BC, there were just hunter/gatherers in the Greek area, and no civilisations were around there at the time.. therefore there couldnt have been war between Athens and the Atlanteans.

The Mycenaean civilisation collapsed in Greece circa 1100 BC (roughly) and the art of writing was lost in the area until the rise of the City States... so any History before this would have been via "Word of Mouth" and in Egypt. This is also what is claimed by Plato.

The only thing that Santorini lacks that Plato claims (except an extra zero on the date, which could easily be a typo :P ) is land mass. Plato claimed that its land mass was as large as Libya and Asia (in his known world).. ie we dont know how big he claimed it was, but was a lot bigger than Santorini.

[manker]

I was always told he was telling a story about 1000 years before him, ie: 1000 + 400 BC = 1400 BC..

This is backed by the fact that he stated that there was a war between Athens and Atlantis..

Athens didnt exist as a "City State" until the Geometric Period (900-700 BC), and if we take the rise of civilisation on mainland Greece, then the earliest is Mycenaean in the late Bronze age.. eg: about 2500 years ago.

Its known that the Minoan Civilization is earlier on the Greek Islands, however if you take it as Minoan then it would have been a civil war which isnt that which is indicated.

All archaelogy so far found seems to indicate that circa 10,000 BC, there were just hunter/gatherers in the Greek area, and no civilisations were around there at the time.. therefore there couldnt have been war between Athens and the Atlanteans.

The Mycenaean civilisation collapsed in Greece circa 1100 BC (roughly) and the art of writing was lost in the area until the rise of the City States... so any History before this would have been via "Word of Mouth" and in Egypt. This is also what is claimed by Plato.

The only thing that Santorini lacks that Plato claims (except an extra zero on the date, which could easily be a typo :P ) is land mass. Plato claimed that its land mass was as large as Libya and Asia (in his known world).. ie we dont know how big he claimed it was, but was a lot bigger than Santorini.
The historical information relating to no artifacts existing in the Greek area, a war between the Atlanteans and Athenians etc etc just goes to show that Santorini is unlikely to have been Atlantis. You see fit to denounce the extra zero as a typo so why stop there, maybe when Plato said that Atlantis was as large as Lybia and Asia, perhaps he meant to write as large as Santorini.

Oh wait - that's ridiculous, but it is still altering what Plato wrote to suit the Med theory.

Plato's Atlantis story is just that - a recantation of a chinese whispered account that served as entertainment performed for Greek philosophers by a child over 100 years before Plato was born.

It is little more than a legend embellished by the vivid and varied imagination of Plato. A legend that may well be rooted in fact but any links with the Mediterranian were put there to make the tale more interesting to his Med based audience.

There are far more compelling theories that do not rely on anecdotal tales to explain the Atlantean legend, the Piri Re'is map and others like it, for example.

[hobbes]

Don't we all want to believe in monsters, magic places and aliens?

I think these physical mysteries are what those who have rejected conventional religion feed on. Not so much the Loch Ness monster, which is just simple fun, but the whole concept that there are aliens out there that populated our planet and are viewing us from afar.

With all that space out there, it certainly seems possible that something is out there, somewhere.

Aliens are religion for some. And like some immerse themselves and entire lives in Biblical studies and the search for lost artifacts and scrolls, others tirelessly search for alien remnants and moniter the sky.

You people have rather eclectic interests, and that is what makes this board so interesting.

[Rat Faced]

The historical information relating to no artifacts existing in the Greek area, a war between the Atlanteans and Athenians etc etc just goes to show that Santorini is unlikely to have been Atlantis. You see fit to denounce the extra zero as a typo so why stop there, maybe when Plato said that Atlantis was as large as Lybia and Asia, perhaps he meant to write as large as Santorini.

Oh wait - that's ridiculous, but it is still altering what Plato wrote to suit the Med theory.

Plato's Atlantis story is just that - a recantation of a chinese whispered account that served as entertainment performed for Greek philosophers by a child over 100 years before Plato was born.

It is little more than a legend embellished by the vivid and varied imagination of Plato. A legend that may well be rooted in fact but any links with the Mediterranian were put there to make the tale more interesting to his Med based audience.

There are far more compelling theories that do not rely on anecdotal tales to explain the Atlantean legend, the Piri Re'is map and others like it, for example.


I said no one knows..

I just think that Santorini is the closest match to what Plato said, and as such I think (and im no expert) that the Minoan Civilisation were the "Atlantians" that Plato was on about :P

There are underwater cities all over the world, and all parts of the world have myths of Cities sinking.. This fuels those that try and find Atlantis, even though to my mind, they may all be talking about different Civilisations.

Even today, Major Cities are often close to the Sea. It would have been even more important long ago, as the Sea would have been THE major source of Trade, which is needed to have a "Civilisation"... when the Seas rise, the Cities sink.

[enoughfakefiles]

I once watched a program and they believed that atlantis was america. :ohmy: They said it existed beyond the pillars of hercules which leads you to america.

[Rat Faced]

I once watched a program and they believed that atlantis was america. :ohmy: They said it existed beyond the pillars of hercules which leads you to america.

Also leads you to Britain, Ireland, Iceland, Greenland, Canary Islands, Asention Island... hell i dont know them all
:lol: :lol: :lol:

But there is a lot of activity looking in the Caribean... a few believe it was there. ;)

[manker]

I said no one knows..

I just think that Santorini is the closest match to what Plato said, and as such I think (and im no expert) that the Minoan Civilisation were the "Atlantians" that Plato was on about :P

There are underwater cities all over the world, and all parts of the world have myths of Cities sinking.. This fuels those that try and find Atlantis, even though to my mind, they may all be talking about different Civilisations.

Even today, Major Cities are often close to the Sea. It would have been even more important long ago, as the Sea would have been THE major source of Trade, which is needed to have a "Civilisation"... when the Seas rise, the Cities sink.Santorini may well have been the closest thing to what Plato said but as I have just demonstrated, Plato's Atlantean tale is mostly embroidered hearsay, so who cares - that is the point I'm trying to make.

That article mentioned Plato to justify a med theory - as protagonists of Mediterranian Atlanteans often do. It is the most esoteric source of Atlantean legend, granted, yet it is one of the least reliable. It's merits are easily rebutted by the glaring flaws contained within.

Plato's Atlantis is in no way comparable to Homer's Troy.

For me, if Atlantis existed there is no way it can have been in the Mediterranian. It is the advanced technology that makes the legend so intruiging thus there would have been artifacts to show this on mainland Europe/N. Africa since the Med is small and easily navigable by even flimsy craft.

Also the labels Atlantis and Atlantean are prevalent in discussions on lost civilisation papers and books for a reason, ya know ;)

[Barbarossa]

The Black Sea was formed about 7000 years ago when rising sea levels caused the Mediterranean to spill over what is now the Strait of Bosporus.

Maybe Atlantis lies on the floor of the Black Sea somewhere? :huh:


(Some speculate that this event is the basis of the myth of the Great Flood and Noah, in the book of Genesis..)