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BigBank_Hank
03-18-2005, 05:40 PM
Anyone else see it?

Most of the players denied every using steroids with the exception of Mark McGwire. McGwire looked terrible and didnít want to answer to questions about his past. He looked like he was going to break down while reading his prepared statement.

What major league and minor league players do doesnít concern me at, itís the young athletes who want to emulate what their favorite players do which worries me. Recently on ESPN they interviewed the father of a high school baseball player who was taking steroids and when asked why he said because Barry Bonds does it. Thatís a major problem and Bonds doesnít think itís that big of a deal. I donít think there is enough talk about the long term affects steroids has on your body.

Biggles
03-18-2005, 05:48 PM
Steroids appear to cause psychological as well as physical changes. A disproportionate amount of murders are carried out by steroid users.

They also do funny things to women and they also do strange things to muscles that a normally fit person wouldn't be interested in (i.e muscular faces, eyebrows etc.,) People that use them have a tendancy to look like cartoon strongmen.

vidcc
03-18-2005, 06:00 PM
I don't know why we have this hearing taking place when there are other government issues at hand. We have laws about drug use...ENFORCE THEM... stop seeking the limelight.

To the father that complained about his son emulating the players. I saw his statement and he seemed to blame everyone except himself and his son. He is the boys father...not the players.


edit:

Aw crap i posted on a sports issue :frusty:

Busyman
03-18-2005, 06:39 PM
These Senate hearings are bullshit just bandwagoning on public opinion.

There's already an investigation involving BALCO.

This is congressional face-time crap.

manker
03-18-2005, 06:58 PM
What major league and minor league players do doesnít concern meNow you see, this attitude I can't understand. I'm sorry if I've taken it out of context a bit (you compared it with influencing kids) but presumably you're a baseball fan, given that how can you not be concerned with what the players do wrt performance enhancing drugs.

The way I see it, steroids end the competition element of the sport. The team with the best meds win, turning it into a science experiment. I guess the team doctors get to compete against each other but the players are the equivalent of lab rats.

When I was really young, I enjoyed athletics and was pretty excited for the Seoul Olympics and the 100 metres in particular. When Johnston was stripped of the medal it completely switched me off the sport, the gold transferred to Lewis meant little to me as a spectator and I imagine that it didn't mean that much to him, either. I hardly watch athletics now.

I don't understand how anyone can get excited about a sport where drug taking is practically manditory if you want to be a top class player. Why is it exciting to see Barry Bonds hit a home-run when you know he wouldn't be on the pitch unless he'd been taking steroids for 10 years, much less breaking records set by his non-drug taking 1950s (?) peers.

BigBank_Hank
03-18-2005, 08:27 PM
Manker I should have phrased that better.

I am pissed that all of the homerun records that were broken are all tainted now. Before all of this came to light I was cheering Barry Bonds in his chase for the all time homerun record but now I could care less. Itís a shame because I wanted to watch him make history and now heís made history for the wrong reasons.

I think that everyone in baseball knew what was going on and they turned a blind eye because of the money that was rolling in. Iím also pretty sure that this problem isnít just limited to baseball.

RPerry
03-18-2005, 08:57 PM
Manker I should have phrased that better.

I am pissed that all of the homerun records that were broken are all tainted now. Before all of this came to light I was cheering Barry Bonds in his chase for the all time homerun record but now I could care less. Itís a shame because I wanted to watch him make history and now heís made history for the wrong reasons.


I know how you feel Hank.... McGwire was my hero, denied it to the end until he went in front of the comission, now it appears he too is guilty, simply because he didn't testify otherwise :(

manker
03-18-2005, 09:04 PM
I can imagine how you both feel. I'd feel cheated if anything like that happened in soccer. The amount of money and time I've invested over the years, well ... I'd want compensation!

Edit: Now there's a thought ... .

bigboab
03-18-2005, 10:11 PM
The answer could be to test them all before events etc. and keep them under observation til after the event is over. then test them all again.
We are talking big money here. So every precaution should be made. It would also create some work for us lesser mortals. :)



I'm a lesser mortal? :ph34r:

vidcc
03-19-2005, 12:54 AM
I think they should just have levels like they have different power categories in motor sports.

one no drugs

one drugged up

and one Eddie Izzard "reefer Olympics"

Busyman
03-19-2005, 04:27 AM
Unless proven they used steroids, Mark McGwire and Barry Bond's records should stand...with no asterisk.

BigBank_Hank
03-19-2005, 05:54 AM
B Ė Bonds admitted to taking steroids during his grad jury testimony. He said he took them but he didnít know what he was taking. Give me a break. He starts using these magic creams and all of a sudden he bulks up like the incredible hulk and he never once gets suspicious.

bigboab
03-19-2005, 08:13 AM
Why woud the Senate Hearing go on to Steroids? I did not think they raced around the house or did a lot of lifting. :blink:

j2k4
03-19-2005, 07:40 PM
Apart from the grand-standing going on, the whole thing smacks of the great philosophical divide between those who do and those who don't.

I'm betting they didn't all share a cab, drink or a meal after the blessed event.

By my count, the empaneled players constituted (with the exception of Curt Schilling, who has his own delusional thought-processes) a group of liars and evaders, nothing more or less.

A total non-event, from a practical point-of-view.

The first (and only) step the Senate should take would be to remove Major-League baseball's anti-trust exemption and let the chips fall where they may.

To do this would not require hearings, face-time & photo-ops, public keel-hauling, Jose Canseco, or that over-used and rickety grand-stand.

BigBank_Hank
03-20-2005, 05:18 AM
Geeez J2 next time tell us how you really feel :D

clocker
03-20-2005, 01:40 PM
A.) I'm at a total loss as to why Congress is investigating this, do they even have any standing/authority to DO anything?
It's obviously just grandstanding ( much like their intervention into the Florida breathing tube fiasco- the sight of Tom Delay talking about the "ethics" of that sad situation was beyond ironic), and it's irritating that this diversion is wasting the time/energy of an already febrile group.

B.) The stain on baseball's reputation is clearly the fault of the Commissioner's office.
Trying to boost baseball's flagging revenue/fan base lead to ignoring the obvious abuses taking place. The fact that McGwire's records might stand is an insult to any legit player's efforts- his abuse can't be proven because MLB leadership has actively resisted TRYING to monitor and prevent such abuse.

Fortunately, I'm not a fan of the game, but I sympathize with those who are.

j2k4
03-20-2005, 02:14 PM
Fortunately, I'm not a fan of the game, but I sympathize with those who are.

I'm a fan of the game, but not the league (anymore).

As far as congress is concerned, I guess their "buy-in" to the debate is the anti-trust exemption they granted Major-League baseball way back when.

Too bad they probably won't think to even brandish their "weapon"; I'm sure they'll all have complementary loges at the local park so they can watch the new team, huh?

Hank-

Where had you got off to?

Good to see you back.

Illuminati
03-20-2005, 02:41 PM
The way I see it, steroids end the competition element of the sport. The team with the best meds win, turning it into a science experiment. I guess the team doctors get to compete against each other but the players are the equivalent of lab rats.

F1 suffers from the same problem in part.

Part of Michael Schumacher's winning is due to him, but part of it is also due to Ferrari having the best car within limits that money and R&D can buy. It's a bit sad, as it takes part of the attention away from who is the best driver to who can handle the best car. :(

Personally, I'd love to see all drivers just having the exact same car and seeing who can drive it the best - My guess is that a few lower-ranked teams (who don't have Ferrari's F1 budget) could give Schumacher a run for his money. Still, I get some pleasure back from the rumours that every race Ferrari wins, ol' Bernie bangs his head as F1 becomes more tedious ;)

j2k4
03-20-2005, 03:34 PM
What kills me is the argument that, for example, in the case of Barry Bonds, "steroids don't improve your eyesight or reactions; it's still "him" hitting the ball..."

Pure, unadulterated bullshit.

When I played ball, I was a pretty good hitter, and the only guys who had better averages were the ones who more dedicated work-out rats, 'cuz (and this is certainly no secret; never has been) everyone knew bat-speed was the secret to getting to/reaching pitches on the edges, curves, knuckleballs, etc.

To alter your swing in the blink-of-an-eye requires strength, and the stronger specimens can "reach" more pitches while maintaining bat-speed.

Good eyes and reactions are every player's stock-in-trade, and anything that allows strength to be built easily (steroids) also allows more time to be spent in the cage swinging a bat.

The fact of the matter is that the parents who attended the hearing having lost children who were emulating big-leaguers will not ultimately sway the players; what will, however, is a player choosing to suffer the ravages of steroid use publicly.

Line 'em all up for testicle portraits and publish that.

fkdup74
03-20-2005, 11:12 PM
I'm a fan of the game, but not the league (anymore).

unfortunately, i may be about to take the same stand as you j
i love the game, played it for about 10 yrs,
watched it for about 20+ years,
and what the Player's Assosciation & the commissioner have let happen...
is just sickening IMO :(

only good thing i can see so far....
i havent seen any of the Angels' players implicated :D

Busyman
03-21-2005, 12:48 AM
The first (and only) step the Senate should take would be to remove Major-League baseball's anti-trust exemption and let the chips fall where they may.
[
A.) I'm at a total loss as to why Congress is investigating this, do they even have any standing/authority to DO anything?
It's obviously just grandstanding ( much like their intervention into the Florida breathing tube fiasco- the sight of Tom Delay talking about the "ethics" of that sad situation was beyond ironic), and it's irritating that this diversion is wasting the time/energy of an already febrile group.

B.) The stain on baseball's reputation is clearly the fault of the Commissioner's office.
Trying to boost baseball's flagging revenue/fan base lead to ignoring the obvious abuses taking place. The fact that McGwire's records might stand is an insult to any legit player's efforts- his abuse can't be proven because MLB leadership has actively resisted TRYING to monitor and prevent such abuse.


Summed up perfectly. :D

j2k4
03-21-2005, 01:44 AM
[

Summed up perfectly. :D

Hey Clocker-

Good eye on this kid-think he can hit a curveball? :lol: