Does This Ability Require Normal or Above Average Intelligence?

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Originally Posted by Squeams

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Originally Posted by manker

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Originally Posted by Darth Cicero

Disagreed. I respect the Church, I just don't agree with what it stands for.

I volunteer at the Church regularly, because I see it as a communal socializing hall for the neighborhood. I help people with fundraisers, cook food for giveaways and help advertise the daycare. To me the Church is like a library without the books. People still go there asking for help with filing taxes, help with getting on the internets, help with driver's education etc. I help the community through the Church.

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What. Help filing taxes! I'm glad that the churches around me don't get up to such shenanigans.

That you see the church as facebook for old people is great. It is completely dissimilar over here, however. Which may explain why it's fast fading here but appears to be stronger than ever over there.

There are church run youth-clubs in the evenings but I'm fairly sure that the majority of Welsh churches cater socially only for the people who go to bi-weekly sermons.
These people are old and are dying out quickly with no-one to replace them. I don't know a single person my age or younger who goes to church for anything other than funerals and the like.

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That's because we're not backwards fucks. Organised religion evolved to form a system of governance at a time when the majority of the population couldn't read and were even more prone to acts of random barbarism and sociopathy than today. As soon as societies became educated enough they formed alternatives to religion that didn't rely on fear and rote learning to control the population.
An advanced civilisation will find ways to be socially helpful and aware that don't have anything to do with churches. If you're an atheist or even agnostic, and you have anything to do with organised religion you're just prolonging its agony and validating it, and you don't have the balls to stand up and be counted.

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I do agree with the first paragraph. However, I think the church as an altruistic organisation could have a place in an advanced society such as ours. It's quite a fanciful notion, though, as its administrators will usually find a way to reward themselves disproportionately.

I take no issue at all with the majority of the teachings of the new testament. As a mission statement for a charitable organisation, it's as decent as any you might find elsewhere and remarkable for its far reaching objectives. Likewise I actually think that Mary1 and Mary2 helping their community out by donating their time, money or expertise to their local church is a particularly good thing in and of itself. As you point out though, they are helping indirectly to sustain organised religion - which is something that keeps me from doing the same thing.

It's only a personal point of view though. I think more of them now that I know they do it, even if I prefer to help my own community in a different way.

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Originally Posted by squeams

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Originally Posted by manker

sup, snee :happy:

I'd just like to go on record and say that I'm shite at multi-tasking. I have to focus completely on what I'm doing or I end up being unhappy with the results.
It's one of the reasons I don't use instant messaging now because I'm fucked if I can concentrate on two conversations and be engaging/funny/interested in both. Likewise if someone talks to me when I'm reading or watching a moviefilm, I have a small mental seizure and resort to a semi-feral state for a few seconds before re-reading/watching the bit they made me miss.

I often find myself in thrall when teh missus is cooking and talking on the phone at the same time. It's like magic.


I've never tried to hone this absent skill, preferring instead to work under the pretext that the results from my endeavours will be all the better for its continued neglect.

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I don't know how anybody can do any of the following at the same time: talk/listen/read. My inability to do this was a constant source of irritation to my ex. He could play computer games and have a fully functional conversation with me, but if I was on the internet talking to you guys or reading something I wouldn't hear anything he said to me. I tried to explain that if he wanted a conversation with me he should say my name firmly and audibly and that would cause me to take note, extract my attention from what I was doing and turn it to him. He never got it though. I would suddenly become aware of a babbling noise and then realise he was in the middle of a conversation with me :(

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fuck you and your taurean ways, piscean :fist:

Does this thing ever happen to you?
If I'm preoccupied and try to read, often my mind will wander to the thing I'm preoccupied about and even though I'm looking at the words and turning the pages, I'll suddenly snap out of it and realise that I haven't got a clue what I've been reading and have to go back and find where my mind spazzed out. Upon re-reading, I'll never feel any familiarity with the words on the page.

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Originally Posted by Snee

I can sort of understand, how dave nevar got it.

To me not being able do two things at once seems nigh on impossible, even tho I understand it intellectually.

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She didn't mean Dave. You may be pre-aware of this :sly:
Btw, I find myself a complete authority on miss smack-tits' life and loves for the last 6 years.

Ask me anything.

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Originally Posted by manker

I do agree with the first paragraph. However, I think the church as an altruistic organisation could have a place in an advanced society such as ours. It's quite a fanciful notion, though, as its administrators will usually find a way to reward themselves disproportionately.

I take no issue at all with the majority of the teachings of the new testament. As a mission statement for a charitable organisation, it's as decent as any you might find elsewhere and remarkable for its far reaching objectives. Likewise I actually think that Mary1 and Mary2 helping their community out by donating their time, money or expertise to their local church is a particularly good thing in and of itself. As you point out though, they are helping indirectly to sustain organised religion - which is something that keeps me from doing the same thing.

It's only a personal point of view though. I think more of them now that I know they do it, even if I prefer to help my own community in a different way.

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I don't know how organised religion could ever have a place in an advanced society. I'd be interested to hear your reasons why you think it could.

I agree with you about the New Testament - but it falls into line with what I was saying about religion being instigated as a system of governance. You want your population to stop eating measly pork and being generally unpleasant, but the problem is how are you going to tell them (they can't read), and how will you coerce them? Answer is shout it at them every Sunday/whatever heathen day it is for your chosen religion, and fabricate the concepts of heaven and hell. It's fantastic in its simplicity and effect. I don't know about you but I pretty much live by the ten commandments by choice now, not through fear of a pit full of fire, pointy sticks and Melanie Phillips raping me up the bum with a strap-on made of pure hatred. My dad said to me when I was little 'you don't have to believe Jesus was the son of God but if you follow his teachings you'll be alright', and I've tried to aim for that in as secular a way as I can.

As for Mary and Darth of Integrity, there's a reason they help the church. They want to be charitable but in a way that fits in with the people around them. It's just a basic lack of character or imagination. And they probably haven't thought about it like this, but they're sort of masquerading as sheep when they're really wolves, which isn't really fair to the real sheep.

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Originally Posted by manker

fuck you and your taurean ways, piscean :fist:

Does this thing ever happen to you?
If I'm preoccupied and try to read, often my mind will wander to the thing I'm preoccupied about and even though I'm looking at the words and turning the pages, I'll suddenly snap out of it and realise that I haven't got a clue what I've been reading and have to go back and find where my mind spazzed out. Upon re-reading, I'll never feel any familiarity with the words on the page.

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Yeah, I get distracted hella easy just like that. But then I blame it on what I'm reading for not being interesting enough and everything is right with the world once again :happy:

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Originally Posted by manker

She didn't mean Dave. You may be pre-aware of this :sly:
Btw, I find myself a complete authority on miss smack-tits' life and loves for the last 6 years.

Ask me anything.

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I have a question! How can I be 32 with so little to show for it? #existentialangst

I always say that anything can be learned by anyone given the amount of effort and time put in. I wouldn't say that the girl has extraordinary talent, I would just say that she has enough time on her hands and interest in nerdy things. I love all of your existentialist points here though. Kudos

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Originally Posted by Squeamous

I have a question! How can I be 32 with so little to show for it? #existentialangst

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It just occurred to me that the only time men talk to 32 year-old women is online. Strange place this internets. :idunno:

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Originally Posted by megabyteme

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Originally Posted by Squeamous

I have a question! How can I be 32 with so little to show for it? #existentialangst

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It just occurred to me that the only time men talk to 32 year-old women is online. Strange place this internets. :idunno:

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That's not true. I talk to men irl.

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Originally Posted by Squeamous

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Originally Posted by megabyteme

It just occurred to me that the only time men talk to 32 year-old women is online. Strange place this internets. :idunno:

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That's not true. I talk to men irl.

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They are just being polite. Or want to buy smack. :mellow:

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Originally Posted by megabyteme

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Originally Posted by Squeamous

That's not true. I talk to men irl.

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They are just being polite. Or want to buy smack. :mellow:

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Megabyteme told a funny!! :clap:

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Originally Posted by Squeamous

As for Mary and Darth of Integrity, there's a reason they help the church. They want to be charitable but in a way that fits in with the people around them.

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Eww gross what a perversion of the details. I don't help the church, I used to help the homeless en masse but it's been years since I've done that. You must have been talking to someone else or fingerbanging yourself when you were reading my post.

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Originally Posted by mjmacky

You must have been talking to someone else or fingerbanging yourself when you were reading my post.

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The thought of an aged woman fingering herself brings mixed emotions...:lookaroun

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Originally Posted by megabyteme

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Originally Posted by mjmacky

You must have been talking to someone else or fingerbanging yourself when you were reading my post.

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The thought of an aged woman fingering herself brings mixed emotions...:lookaroun

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Today a survivor of the Dunblaine massacre was sentenced to 20 years for the attempted rape of an old age pensioner. Go figure.

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Originally Posted by Squeamous

That's because we're not backwards fucks. Organised religion evolved to form a system of governance at a time when the majority of the population couldn't read and were even more prone to acts of random barbarism and sociopathy than today. As soon as societies became educated enough they formed alternatives to religion that didn't rely on fear and rote learning to control the population.
An advanced civilisation will find ways to be socially helpful and aware that don't have anything to do with churches. If you're an atheist or even agnostic, and you have anything to do with organised religion you're just prolonging its agony and validating it, and you don't have the balls to stand up and be counted.

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There's a time to stand for what you believe, and a time to wait for that time.

Everybody knows what the future holds for internet laws and copyright laws. My generation is pretty twisted when it comes to being self-entitled little bitches. SOPA/PIPA/ACTA etc. are all meaningless because by the time my generation stops being students and starts being the law makers we'll vote them out almost immediately.

Similarly with religion. Obviously religion has no place in a civilized, modern society. But I'm not about to alienate a subset of the population who needs valid help, simply because they choose to live in comfortable ignorance. I'd rather just wait a few years and watch religion eat itself away. I'm unaware of a single country where atheism is shunned politically currently, that has not dissociated into civil wars. Embracing logic and reason is something all societies are bound for. I'll let fit societies evolve, and help the old generation move on, while watching a better time get ushered in.

My standing against the herd now will do nothing, because religion is still important to a vast majority. In a few years generations upon generations of people who grew up in secular classrooms, chatting on the secular internet, and consuming secular media are going to realize how pointless it is to vote politicians for religious reasons, and that's the minute the world will change for the better, with no part for me in its doing.

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Originally Posted by Squeamous

As for Mary and Darth of Integrity, there's a reason they help the church. They want to be charitable but in a way that fits in with the people around them. It's just a basic lack of character or imagination. And they probably haven't thought about it like this, but they're sort of masquerading as sheep when they're really wolves, which isn't really fair to the real sheep.

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I'm very vocal about being atheist in my community. I don't go around with a sign, but when asked I give a straight answer. Even the priests at my Church know that I'm an atheist. I don't masquerade or hide what I am, and if my local Church ever believes that they are better off without me, I will gladly volunteer at the local hospital, the local library, or start working for Red Cross. This isn't about me being unimaginative. It's about me growing up in a certain environment, seeing the amount of good a Church can do for someone, and knowing that I want to be part of that. I'm not sure if you and Chavis are serious about your Heroin addiction, but not too long ago the Church was a viable place to get treatment and seek help for these things, and to this day many Churches will still take people off the streets and make sure they have something better off in their lives when leaving than when they came in.

Just because you and I are strong enough to curb addiction on our own, and need no external moral compass, doesn't mean we should exclude everyone beneath us from the benefits of our lifestyles (whether by knowledge, health or otherwise).

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Originally Posted by Darth Cicero

I'm not sure if you and Chavis are serious about your Heroin addiction, but not too long ago the Church was a viable place to get treatment and seek help for these things, and to this day many Churches will still take people off the streets and make sure they have something better off in their lives when leaving than when they came in.

Just because you and I are strong enough to curb addiction on our own, and need no external moral compass, doesn't mean we should exclude everyone beneath us from the benefits of our lifestyles (whether by knowledge, health or otherwise).

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:glag:

That is all.

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Originally Posted by chavis

:glag:

That is all.

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Meanie.

:no:

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Originally Posted by Darth Cicero

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Originally Posted by chavis

:glag:

That is all.

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Meanie.

:no:

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Sucker.

:no:

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Originally Posted by chavis

Sucker.

:no:

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Oh, you think so?

:shifty:

Yeah, what ev's.

I used to be addicted to internet porn, but I don't seem to be anymore. I think I broke my addiction. I'm strong.

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Originally Posted by mjmacky

I used to be addicted to internet porn, but I don't seem to be anymore. I think I broke my addiction. I'm strong.

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I used to be addicted to being superior to people, but with the help of the mighty lord using his Church as an ark of resolution, I can say my life is better now.

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Originally Posted by mjmacky

I used to be addicted to internet porn, but I don't seem to be anymore. I think I broke my addiction. I'm strong.

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Or at least your wrist is.

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Originally Posted by IdolEyes787

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Originally Posted by mjmacky

I used to be addicted to internet porn, but I don't seem to be anymore. I think I broke my addiction. I'm strong.

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Or at least your wrist is.

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His wrist is addicted to internet porn? His wrist broke his addiction? His wrist is strong?

Ambiguity, thou art the enemy of hilarity!

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Originally Posted by Darth Cicero

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Originally Posted by IdolEyes787

Or at least your wrist is.

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His wrist is addicted to internet porn? His wrist broke his addiction? His wrist is strong?

Ambiguity, thou art the enemy of hilarity!

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Not quite with you there. Given my pre-knowledge about Idol's propensity for body building and his oft-aired opinion of Mary's internet debauchery, it was obvious that wrist strength was the message.

Idol's sexuality remains the only discernible ambiguity here.

'Discernible ambiguity'. I like it.

I have no fucking idea what the fuck it means, but I like it.

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Originally Posted by Darth Cicero

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Originally Posted by IdolEyes787

Or at least your wrist is.

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His wrist is addicted to internet porn? His wrist broke his addiction? His wrist is strong?

Ambiguity, thou art the enemy of hilarity!

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So is over-thinking and more pointedly a lack of a sense of humour.
Btw I ran into The Great Gazoo today ,mistook him for you and pummeled the fuck out of him.

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Originally Posted by chavis

'Discernible ambiguity'. I like it.

I have no fucking idea what the fuck it means, but I like it.

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It shouldn't work. Not at all.

But I think it does.

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Originally Posted by manker

Not quite with you there. Given my pre-knowledge about Idol's propensity for body building and his oft-aired opinion of Mary's internet debauchery, it was obvious that wrist strength was the message here.

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By a process of elimination based on tense "wrist is" as opposed to a past tense, addiction is out of the pool. Eliminating based on verb "wrist is" as opposed to "wrist did" you can easily disregard the breaking the habit part.

I gave Idol the benefit of the doubt, and assumed his grammar isn't up to the level it needs to be add to avoid ambiguity, though. We can't expect change overnight. :idunno:

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Originally Posted by manker

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Originally Posted by chavis

'Discernible ambiguity'. I like it.

I have no fucking idea what the fuck it means, but I like it.

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It shouldn't work. Not at all.

But I think it does.

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In this case it does. It does indeed. :smilie4:

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Originally Posted by IdolEyes787

Btw I ran into The Great Gazoo today ,mistook him for you and pummeled the fuck out of him.

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I'm impressed with the fact that you think you have the potential to maintain knowledge of me by name in such a situation. I thought pummeling involved dehumanizing the subject? :no:

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Originally Posted by Darth Cicero

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Originally Posted by manker

Not quite with you there. Given my pre-knowledge about Idol's propensity for body building and his oft-aired opinion of Mary's internet debauchery, it was obvious that wrist strength was the message here.

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By a process of elimination based on tense "wrist is" as opposed to a past tense, addiction is out of the pool. Eliminating based on verb "wrist is" as opposed to "wrist did" you can easily disregard the breaking the habit part.

I gave Idol the benefit of the doubt, and assumed his grammar isn't up to the level it needs to be add to avoid ambiguity, though. We can't expect change overnight. :idunno:

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If Snee's approach to grammar is a laser guided Carlos the Jackal sniper rifle with extra lasers mounted on the laser attachment, then Idol is the Gatling gun.

He knows he's missing, he knows your retinae are going to be torn to shreds, he knows he can take his 642CT out of his man-bag and hit the bullseye each time.
Idol just likes to spray it around :mellow:

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Originally Posted by manker

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Originally Posted by Darth Cicero

By a process of elimination based on tense "wrist is" as opposed to a past tense, addiction is out of the pool. Eliminating based on verb "wrist is" as opposed to "wrist did" you can easily disregard the breaking the habit part.

I gave Idol the benefit of the doubt, and assumed his grammar isn't up to the level it needs to be add to avoid ambiguity, though. We can't expect change overnight. :idunno:

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If Snee's approach to grammar is a laser guided Carlos the Jackal sniper rifle with extra lasers mounted on the laser attachment, then Idol is the Gatling gun.

He knows he's missing, he knows your retinae are going to be torn to shreds, he knows he can take his 642CT out of his man-bag and hit the bullseye each time.
Idol just likes to spray it around :mellow:

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Let me just break it to the downs, Darthy.

In a roundabout fashion, he's intimating that despite your grandstanding, you're ultimately an exceptionally boring kinda guy.

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Originally Posted by Squeams

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Originally Posted by manker

I do agree with the first paragraph. However, I think the church as an altruistic organisation could have a place in an advanced society such as ours. It's quite a fanciful notion, though, as its administrators will usually find a way to reward themselves disproportionately.

I take no issue at all with the majority of the teachings of the new testament. As a mission statement for a charitable organisation, it's as decent as any you might find elsewhere and remarkable for its far reaching objectives. Likewise I actually think that Mary1 and Mary2 helping their community out by donating their time, money or expertise to their local church is a particularly good thing in and of itself. As you point out though, they are helping indirectly to sustain organised religion - which is something that keeps me from doing the same thing.

It's only a personal point of view though. I think more of them now that I know they do it, even if I prefer to help my own community in a different way.

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I don't know how organised religion could ever have a place in an advanced society. I'd be interested to hear your reasons why you think it could.

I agree with you about the New Testament - but it falls into line with what I was saying about religion being instigated as a system of governance. You want your population to stop eating measly pork and being generally unpleasant, but the problem is how are you going to tell them (they can't read), and how will you coerce them? Answer is shout it at them every Sunday/whatever heathen day it is for your chosen religion, and fabricate the concepts of heaven and hell. It's fantastic in its simplicity and effect. I don't know about you but I pretty much live by the ten commandments by choice now, not through fear of a pit full of fire, pointy sticks and Melanie Phillips raping me up the bum with a strap-on made of pure hatred. My dad said to me when I was little 'you don't have to believe Jesus was the son of God but if you follow his teachings you'll be alright', and I've tried to aim for that in as secular a way as I can.

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I don't recall my parents ever mentioning the bible, in fact the realisation that the bible wasn't just a ridiculous piece of literature and that Jesus was a real chap with some good ideas only became apparent to me at about 23 or 24.

So. This is how I think it could work:

Brands are everything and like it or not, the church is a powerful brand which inspires trust in many people. No other charitable organisation is in a position to do as much good as the church is if only it was properly run.

I wouldn't have any problem at all with them continuing their sermons and offering spiritual advice to those that felt they needed it but how it could really fit in is if the spiritual side of it married properly with pragmatic assistance of a tangible sort to victims of our advanced society.
If the church branched out properly and provided, for example, rehabilitation for drug addicts or near to free childcare for single parents between nine and five or solace for battered wives or temporary accommodation for the homeless on a large scale, then it could positively and enormously benefit the community and the economy.

To do this its objectives would have to change considerably. It would have to be properly administered and it would need to report and be accountable to the local council initially and Downing Street as a national entity. I envisage tax payers partially funding these schemes after several years of managing to be self-sufficient. Due to it already being completely trusted as an entity by so many, the lion's share of the funding would come from a suggested donation level in return for use of its services. Some would abuse this but most would see the good it's doing and temper their financial reciprocation accordingly.

I could definitely write loads, but that would be akin to anaesthesia.
Suffice is to say that the church has the potential to be a veritable benevolent behemoth that would fit quite nicely into an advanced society and help sticking-plaster many of its inevitable wounds.

tl;dr

I just read you in the atheist thread. You'd start talking about god being real because hope is real or something equally girly or gay or worse.

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Originally Posted by manker

What I think churches should do today...

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Isn't the Catholic church the richest international organization in the world? How about it starts doing all that shit without accepting any more donations? They could hold financially for at least several decades I think.

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Originally Posted by mjmacky

Isn't the Catholic church the richest international organization in the world?

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They're only rich in non-liquid assets like land ownership. Sure they can sell the land, but then they'd lose the opportunity to expand or collect lease should they ever require to do so in the future.
The fear of irrelevance.

:rolleyes:

I don't know how rich it is or how liquid its assets are, but that isn't the point.

It has to be sustainable or it's shit.
Having said that, donating some of its property portfolio and selling off a few chattels that only hardcore religious cognoscenti have heard of would help with all the setting up.

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Originally Posted by manker

I just read you in the atheist thread. You'd start talking about god being real because hope is real or something equally girly or gay or worse.

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I didn't think there was anything worse than being girly or gay.
Also for future reference I don't mean most of the stuff I say here ,the above sentence and anything hateful being the obviously exceptions.

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Originally Posted by manker

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Originally Posted by Squeams

I don't know how organised religion could ever have a place in an advanced society. I'd be interested to hear your reasons why you think it could.

I agree with you about the New Testament - but it falls into line with what I was saying about religion being instigated as a system of governance. You want your population to stop eating measly pork and being generally unpleasant, but the problem is how are you going to tell them (they can't read), and how will you coerce them? Answer is shout it at them every Sunday/whatever heathen day it is for your chosen religion, and fabricate the concepts of heaven and hell. It's fantastic in its simplicity and effect. I don't know about you but I pretty much live by the ten commandments by choice now, not through fear of a pit full of fire, pointy sticks and Melanie Phillips raping me up the bum with a strap-on made of pure hatred. My dad said to me when I was little 'you don't have to believe Jesus was the son of God but if you follow his teachings you'll be alright', and I've tried to aim for that in as secular a way as I can.

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I don't recall my parents ever mentioning the bible, in fact the realisation that the bible wasn't just a ridiculous piece of literature and that Jesus was a real chap with some good ideas only became apparent to me at about 23 or 24.

So. This is how I think it could work:

Brands are everything and like it or not, the church is a powerful brand which inspires trust in many people. No other charitable organisation is in a position to do as much good as the church is if only it was properly run.

I wouldn't have any problem at all with them continuing their sermons and offering spiritual advice to those that felt they needed it but how it could really fit in is if the spiritual side of it married properly with pragmatic assistance of a tangible sort to victims of our advanced society.
If the church branched out properly and provided, for example, rehabilitation for drug addicts or near to free childcare for single parents between nine and five or solace for battered wives or temporary accommodation for the homeless on a large scale, then it could positively and enormously benefit the community and the economy.

To do this its objectives would have to change considerably. It would have to be properly administered and it would need to report and be accountable to the local council initially and Downing Street as a national entity. I envisage tax payers partially funding these schemes after several years of managing to be self-sufficient. Due to it already being completely trusted as an entity by so many, the lion's share of the funding would come from a suggested donation level in return for use of its services. Some would abuse this but most would see the good it's doing and temper their financial reciprocation accordingly.

I could definitely write loads, but that would be akin to anaesthesia.
Suffice is to say that the church has the potential to be a veritable benevolent behemoth that would fit quite nicely into an advanced society and help sticking-plaster many of its inevitable wounds.

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I didn't read that. Not a word.

However I respect that you took the time to write it, you knob, you.

Yes. I'm conveniently ignoring all the different branches of the church that wouldn't merge to form this super-benevolent organisation.

I'm looking past that, I can't believe you brought it up, actually.