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What Did They Die For?
As the American soldier death toll is fast approching the 3,000 mark (I don't know for other countries) the question I ask is
What did our soldiers die for?
It is easy to say "well they signed up" but do you find solace in that our soldiers are literally being wasted for....
well....will someone tell me.:(
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Re: What Did They Die For?
They are dying for democracy and... oil?
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Re: What Did They Die For?
They died because of two dictatorships.
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Who sent them out to fight in Afghanistan and Iraq.:(
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Re: What Did They Die For?
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Busyman™
As the American soldier death toll is fast approching the 3,000 mark (I don't know for other countries) the question I ask is
What did our soldiers die for?
It is easy to say "well they signed up" but do you find solace in that our soldiers are literally being wasted for....
well....will someone tell me.:(
Your government is paranoid that there are people in some parts of the world that don't like them so much that they are prepared to tell people to crash your aeroplanes into your tall buildings.
Therefore they are sending your young soldiers over to those places, to improve relations between your people and their people.
Surprisingly, it's not working too well. :dabs:
What your government fails to understand is that not everyone wants a democracy. Your government is not alone in this misconception :smilie4:
Some people actually like just being told what to do, so long as their is food on their table, clean water in their taps, and electricity in their TV. Unfortunately, these seem to have got AWOL for alot of the people in Iraq and Afghanistan.
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Re: What Did They Die For?
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Barbarossa
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Busyman™
As the American soldier death toll is fast approching the 3,000 mark (I don't know for other countries) the question I ask is
What did our soldiers die for?
It is easy to say "well they signed up" but do you find solace in that our soldiers are literally being wasted for....
well....will someone tell me.:(
Your government is paranoid that there are people in some parts of the world that don't like them so much that they are prepared to tell people to crash your aeroplanes into your tall buildings.
Therefore they are sending your young soldiers over to those places, to improve relations between your people and their people.
Surprisingly, it's not working too well. :dabs:
What your government fails to understand is that not everyone wants a democracy. Your government is not alone in this misconception :smilie4:
Some people actually like just being told what to do, so long as their is food on their table, clean water in their taps, and electricity in their TV. Unfortunately, these seem to have got AWOL for alot of the people in Iraq and Afghanistan.
I'm fairly certain it's not so much an issue of people wanting to be told what to do, so much as an issue of people wanting to be told what to do, rather than dying or starving when some nice blokes from another part of the world decide to give you freedom by bombing the crap out of you :dabs:
EDit:
As for the original question, I suspect they died because Bush started a war in order to stay president, or popular.
Seems he invents another crisis or starts a war whenever his approval ratings are going down :unsure:
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Re: What Did They Die For?
There is also the view that you can train an army as much as you like,but until they have seen combat you don't know how they will react.
So perhaps Iraq and Afghanistan are just advanced training grounds,I can see no other reason for us to still be there.
Also it is a good place for all the weapons companys to test the new toys they invent to destroy humanity.
Damn I think I'm getting cynical in my old age.
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Re: What Did They Die For?
The reason we went in has changed so often that it's hard to tell what we are there for.
Apparently, according to the republicans, nobody has ever said "stay the course":huh:
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Re: What Did They Die For?
Always follow the orders of your boss
or you won't get paid for the job.
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Re: What Did They Die For?
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Barbarossa
Your government is paranoid that there are people in some parts of the world that don't like them so much that they are prepared to tell people to crash your aeroplanes into your tall buildings.
Therefore they are sending your young soldiers over to those places, to improve relations between your people and their people.
Surprisingly, it's not working too well. :dabs:
What your government fails to understand is that not everyone wants a democracy. Your government is not alone in this misconception :smilie4:
Some people actually like just being told what to do, so long as their is food on their table, clean water in their taps, and electricity in their TV. Unfortunately, these seem to have got AWOL for alot of the people in Iraq and Afghanistan.
Yes, you're right, it's just paranoia.
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Re: What Did They Die For?
what did Iraq have to do with 911?
it's never been stay the course
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Re: What Did They Die For?
Oh noes, Skizo missed the point :dabs:
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Re: What Did They Die For?
Quote:
Originally Posted by
SnnY
Oh noes, Skizo missed the point :dabs:
ummm....no, I believe you did, again.
I was responding to Barbs comment.
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Re: What Did They Die For?
Is paranoia the new term for "painting yourself into a corner"? It is more succinct, I'll give it that.
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Re: What Did They Die For?
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Skizo
Quote:
Originally Posted by
SnnY
Oh noes, Skizo missed the point :dabs:
ummm....no, I believe
you did, again.
I was responding to Barbs comment.
:rolleyes: Read Barb's post, and vid's, again.
As for that "again" of yours....HAHA.
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Re: What Did They Die For?
Quote:
Originally Posted by
SnnY
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Skizo
ummm....no, I believe you did, again.
I was responding to Barbs comment.
:rolleyes: Read Barb's post, and vid's, again.
As for that "again" of yours....HAHA.
Read Barb's post again. I still see no reason for your postulation. Nothing out of the ordinary there. :dabs:
As for vid's comment, it had nothing to do with my post. I thought I was crystal clear when I said, "I was responding to Barbs comment.". But I guess you missed that point as well.
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Re: What Did They Die For?
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Skizo
As for vid's comment, it had nothing to do with my post.
Actually it was to do with your spoiler. Pictures of 911, so my question is
Quote:
what did Iraq have to do with 911?
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Re: What Did They Die For?
Quote:
Originally Posted by
vidcc
Actually it was to do with your spoiler. Pictures of 911, so my question is
Quote:
what did Iraq have to do with 911?
Not much. I never said it did, nor was I insinuating it did.
Again,
I was merely replying to Barb's comment, "Your government is paranoid that there are people in some parts of the world that don't like them so much that they are prepared to tell people to crash your aeroplanes into your tall buildings.". - meaning that it is not just paranoia, but that it is happening.
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Re: What Did They Die For?
Ok, skizo, I'll try this in really big letters, maybe you can follow that way.
Barb says:
Quote:
Your government is paranoid that there are people in some parts of the world that don't like them so much that they are prepared to tell people to crash your aeroplanes into your tall buildings.
Therefore they are sending your young soldiers over to those places, to improve relations between your people and their people.
You go:
Quote:
Yes, you're right, it's just paranoia.
And then you post pics from 9/11.
Then vid says:
Quote:
what did Iraq have to do with 911?
Now, last I checked, it wasn't Iraq flying planes into tall buildings....
Yet, somehow, the war in Iraq has come to be about terrorism/911 (can't bloody well be about WMDs since there are none) and Bush does have a tendency of linking the two.
Therefore, it can be said, as Barb does, that young americans are being sent to their death because people in high places are paranoid about people in various places where the US isn't popular instigating terrorist attacks, because , hey, they did in another place.
:happy:
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Re: What Did They Die For?
Thus proving the old adage that "just because you are paranoid it doesn't mean that they are not out to get you".
Whether the wars were the most appropriate or indeed most sensible response is another matter altogether.
Edit: Feck Snny can type fast :dabs:
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Re: What Did They Die For?
IMO America wants Iraq as a buffer zone between Iran and Israel. They tried first by arming Saddam during the Iran- Iraq war. That did not work so they try to instal a democracy*, by force. That is not going to work. I honestly dont know what they will try next. As I say IMO it has nothing to do with terrorism.
* democracy; where Governments are elected by the people to represent themselves.
@ Les! It is Halloween time and Snny has a Swede ish keyboard.
I'll get my coat.:(
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Re: What Did They Die For?
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Biggles
Thus proving the old adage that "just because you are paranoid it doesn't mean that they are not out to get you".
Whether the wars were the most appropriate or indeed most sensible response is another matter altogether.
Edit: Feck Snny can type fast :dabs:
It's an optical illusion, brought on by my cunning usage of a larger font.
Really, it's just a sentence or two, maybe three, maybe four, maybe...uhm, I'm lost.
:dabs:
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Re: What Did They Die For?
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Barbarossa
What your government fails to understand is that not everyone wants a democracy. Your government is not alone in this misconception :smilie4:
Some people actually like just being told what to do, so long as their is food on their table, clean water in their taps, and electricity in their TV. Unfortunately, these seem to have got AWOL for alot of the people in Iraq and Afghanistan.
I feel this is a fair-minded but unrealistic formulation, Barbie.
The mob is, first of all, most comfortable with what is most familiar.
We know this to be true from self-experience.
I guess the most apropos answer I have for your view is that Mussolini was greatly admired for making the trains run on time.
Democracy is so much more than that:
The predilection for anything less is what leads to the Shahs and Saddams of prior years, and I think we have had enough of that, at least according to those who criticize America for poking it's big nose (and military) about the globe.
True elective government weeds out Saddams and Shahs just about everywhere it is tried.
Left to themselves, these caliphate wannabees will yield to the strongest of the would-be strong-men, and the situation doesn't change at all.
If the U.S. does as it has in the past, the situation doesn't change, either.
We are in uncharted territory, as international opinion sits on the sidelines in judgement of they know not what.
In WWII, Germany and Japan, while suffering the same pains as Iraq, were resigned to their fates nonetheless by the fact they were so utterly defeated they had no choice.
Modern "opinion" no longer allows one nation to thoroughly subjugate another for that ultimate end, and disallows any consideration of the terrorist thought-process for reason of incorporation into a comprehensive strategy to fight it.
It's a tough go all 'round.
An interpreter is standing by, Busyman.
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Re: What Did They Die For?
Quote:
Originally Posted by
j2k4
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Barbarossa
What your government fails to understand is that not everyone wants a democracy. Your government is not alone in this misconception :smilie4:
Some people actually like just being told what to do, so long as their is food on their table, clean water in their taps, and electricity in their TV. Unfortunately, these seem to have got AWOL for alot of the people in Iraq and Afghanistan.
I feel this is a fair-minded but unrealistic formulation, Barbie.
The mob is, first of all, most comfortable with what is most familiar.
We know this to be true from self-experience.
I guess the most apropos answer I have for your view is that Mussolini was greatly admired for making the trains run on time.
Democracy is so much more than that:
The predilection for anything less is what leads to the Shahs and Saddams of prior years, and I think we have had enough of that, at least according to those who criticize America for poking it's big nose (and military) about the globe.
True elective government weeds out Saddams and Shahs just about everywhere it is tried.
Left to themselves, these caliphate wannabees will yield to the strongest of the would-be strong-men, and the situation doesn't change at all.
If the U.S. does as it has in the past, the situation doesn't change, either.
We are in uncharted territory, as international opinion sits on the sidelines in judgement of they know not what.
In WWII, Germany and Japan, while suffering the same pains as Iraq, were resigned to their fates nonetheless by the fact they were so utterly defeated they had no choice.
Modern "opinion" no longer allows one nation to thoroughly subjugate another for that ultimate end, and disallows any consideration of the terrorist thought-process for reason of incorporation into a comprehensive strategy to fight it.
It's a tough go all 'round.
An interpreter is standing by, Busyman.
Where and what for??
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Re: What Did They Die For?
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Busyman™
Quote:
Originally Posted by
j2k4
I feel this is a fair-minded but unrealistic formulation, Barbie.
The mob is, first of all, most comfortable with what is most familiar.
We know this to be true from self-experience.
I guess the most apropos answer I have for your view is that Mussolini was greatly admired for making the trains run on time.
Democracy is so much more than that:
The predilection for anything less is what leads to the Shahs and Saddams of prior years, and I think we have had enough of that, at least according to those who criticize America for poking it's big nose (and military) about the globe.
True elective government weeds out Saddams and Shahs just about everywhere it is tried.
Left to themselves, these caliphate wannabees will yield to the strongest of the would-be strong-men, and the situation doesn't change at all.
If the U.S. does as it has in the past, the situation doesn't change, either.
We are in uncharted territory, as international opinion sits on the sidelines in judgement of they know not what.
In WWII, Germany and Japan, while suffering the same pains as Iraq, were resigned to their fates nonetheless by the fact they were so utterly defeated they had no choice.
Modern "opinion" no longer allows one nation to thoroughly subjugate another for that ultimate end, and disallows any consideration of the terrorist thought-process for reason of incorporation into a comprehensive strategy to fight it.
It's a tough go all 'round.
An interpreter is standing by, Busyman.
Where and what for??
In case you choose not to understand.
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Re: What Did They Die For?
Quote:
Originally Posted by
j2k4
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Busyman™
Where and what for??
In case you choose not to understand.
I think most people understand you. You just talk in a roundaboutwayindirectlywithspinadded. Sometimes I can bother to trudge through the muck and sometimes I can't.
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Re: What Did They Die For?
The original question was, what have our troops died for?
Although Iran may have been a better country to attack to fight terrorism,
Attacking Iraq is still not all bad. I don’t know the exact figures but I do know that our troops have killed way more terrorist then 3,000. American troops have greatly disrupted most if not all of the known terrorist organizations, helping to keep America and other countries safe. Sure Iraq is a mess, but how is Bush supposed to finish the Job when he has so many enemies in his own Government, enemies that sometimes seem to be on the side of the terrorist and not the United States Of America.
I can’t believe there are actually elected officials in our government that would fight for the rights of known terrorist that we have in custody.
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Re: What Did They Die For?
They've killed over 3000 terrorists...in Iraq? :blink:
Were these terrorists actually terrorists before Iraq was invaded? Were they bombing the US and that, I mean?
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Re: What Did They Die For?
By "terrorists" I think he meant "potential terrorists", which of course translates to "Foreigners". :stars:
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Re: What Did They Die For?
Quote:
Originally Posted by
SnnY
They've killed over 3000 terrorists...in Iraq? :blink:
Were these terrorists actually terrorists before Iraq was invaded? Were they bombing the US and that, I mean?
With this logic we should wait and let them attack us first, then we can attack them.
Wow that’s smart. As much we don’t want to be in Iraq being there is a preemptive move that is doing a lot to keep the USA and other countries safe.
Also I don’t care when or where the terrorist came from; a terrorist is a terrorist and deserves to die.
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Re: What Did They Die For?
So there weren't actually 3000 terrorists killed in Iraq then. You just pulled that number out of your arse.
'k, I was just checking.
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Re: What Did They Die For?
That figure isn't that far off.
There's so far been about 3000 people of all nationalities killed.
Oh wait, that's 3000 every month.
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Re: What Did They Die For?
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Karen DiConcet
That figure isn't that far off.
There's so far been about 3000 people of all nationalities killed.
Oh wait, that's 3000 every month.
Hella' lot of terrorists in the world.
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Re: What Did They Die For?
and that buggering shit terrorist is still on the loose, damn crazy-ass brits.
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Re: What Did They Die For?
Yes there have been over 3,000 terrorist, Insurgents, foreigners (what ever you want to call them) killed in Iraq.
And of course there is no official number. But the last estimate was over 3,000 this according to FoxNews
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Re: What Did They Die For?
:o Fox!!1!!
It must be true!
Last I checked some government spokesman claimed there'd been 3k terrorists killed, worldwide, in that wonderful war on terror Bush started.
Civilian casualties in Iraq are reported as being 40k+
And as for others killed in Iraq, lots of them hadn't been shooting at people or been blowing stuff up, had they not been attacked, and bombed, by the US.
(If a foreign power invaded YOUR country, would resisting make you a terrorist?)
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Re: What Did They Die For?
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Re: What Did They Die For?
Quote:
Originally Posted by
SnnY
So there weren't actually 3000 terrorists killed in Iraq then. You just pulled that number out of your arse.
'k, I was just checking.
I sincerely hope you did not.:lol:
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http://www.cnn.com/SPECIALS/2003/ira...es/casualties/
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There have been 3,038 coalition deaths, 2,803 Americans, two Australians, 119 Britons, 13 Bulgarians, six Danes, two Dutch, two Estonians, one Fijian, one Hungarian, 32 Italians, one Kazakh, one Latvian, 17 Poles, two Romanians, two Salvadoran, three Slovaks, 11 Spaniards, two Thai and 18 Ukrainians in the war in Iraq as of October 24, 2006, according to a CNN count. (
Graphical breakdown of casualties). The list below is the names of the soldiers, Marines, airmen, sailors and Coast Guardsmen whose deaths have been reported by their country's governments. The list also includes seven employees of the U.S. Defense Department. At least 21,077 U.S. troops have been wounded in action, according to the Pentagon
The above is far more coalition personnel than was killed in the twin towers. It is discounting the number of Iraqi and terrorists that have killed. The only thing that all this has proved is that there is definately weapons of mass destruction in Iraq now. :(
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Re: What Did They Die For?
Look… I am not happy that we are in Iraq and I wish we would have never gone in.
But the original question was about what our solders are fighting for.
Me being the optimist that I am, can see at least some good out of this war.
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Re: What Did They Die For?
Quote:
Originally Posted by
matt526
I hope you do know that Al Qaida is a bunch of twats who'll take responsibility or claim that they've bled for whatever cause they think is good, at any opportunity.
It doesn't actually mean that 4000 of them died in Iraq, more like it, 4000 muslim troops may have died.
Somehow the muppets think that all muslims are in their team, or they make it sound that way when they make their wee announcements. They've also claimed to have fought and died in Cheznya, in one of them brilliant speeches I heard translated on the radio, FFS.
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Re: What Did They Die For?
Quote:
Originally Posted by
matt526
I can’t believe there are actually elected officials in our government that would fight for the rights of known terrorist that we have in custody.
Do a search for the name Maher Arar.
As I posted in a different thread nobody wants to protect the terrorist. It is the innocent that due process protects. Due process doesn't protect the guilty.
How would due process help a "known" terrorist....I mean if we know they are terrorist then the case would be made during the process.
Why do you think we have trials at all?