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help with building a computer
im planning on building a new system(for the first time) basically this computer is well beyond it's time, i want to make a pc that can play the upcoming game F.E.A.R.
im looking between ebay and newegg for pieces, but im not sure where to start. i need to know a good motherboard, but one that's not really expensive.
basically i need a computer that would end up with specs of:
cpu: 2.8ghz-3.0ghz pentium 4
ram: 512(1gb if cheap enough)
mobo: ???
vid card: 256mb (seen it on ebay for like 100)
harddrive: cheap 20 gig will work (cheapest on newegg was 80 for a 40gb i think)
dvdrw: pretty sure i'll get the $38 from newegg
case: ???
i lean toward intel more, for the reason that they are currently cheaper than amd, even tho many say amd is pwning intel in raw power. likewise i have read where these chips generate alot of heat and i'm not sure if my case would be a "coffin" to my setup.
my budget, well it's laughable, but with ebay i may just skim it out in time for F.E.A.R launch
any help is much appreciated, i dont know much about building computers so i'm sure school will be fun :-p
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Re: help with building a computer
Well best to start with is your budget, how much are you willing to spend.
Also the mb on the graphics card isn't very important compared to the clock speeds.
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Re: help with building a computer
And you dont want to go with Intel for gaming, thats pure shite. You can build a nice AMD64 system for around 1500-1700 CAD :D
EDIT: And less ;)
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Re: help with building a computer
Quote:
Originally Posted by ApacNTS
i need to know a good motherboard, but one that's not really expensive.
... i dont know much about building computers so i'm sure school will be fun :-p
Lesson #1
"Good motherboard" and "not really expensive" cannot be used in the same sentence.
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Re: help with building a computer
heh i feared as much about the motherboard. my budget is about 350 at best by the end of october. now i'll go crawl under a rock cause im an outcast *hides* amd is hella pricy, i dont know how you guys get all that uber sweet gear.
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Re: help with building a computer
Quote:
Originally Posted by ApacNTS
heh i feared as much about the motherboard. my budget is about 350 at best by the end of october. now i'll go crawl under a rock cause im an outcast *hides* amd is hella pricy, i dont know how you guys get all that uber sweet gear.
Why not get a AMD instead of a P4 :01:
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Re: help with building a computer
well currently on newegg the price of an amd 2.4ghz processor is around *checks* 300 just for the chip with no heatsink or fan/compound. whereas a p4 3gig chip+hs/fan is 177.50. :(
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Re: help with building a computer
When I build my comps, first I take a look at whats coming on the market within the next year or two as far as games and see what requirements they have, and then I try to go past it to make sure I can enjoy the game to the fullest extent.
With that in mind I like to save myself some cash, and after some research and comparing some prices I come up with a number.
Let's just say for shits and giggles I figured it out to be $1000 US, and this was a pretty good gaming system that would last me until my much anticipated *new* game came out and beyond.
Hopefully, this system would last me until the next *new* game was out as well, about 2-3 years.
Ok, so you have your game in mind, you have your financial resources saved, now lets look at how you need to spend it all.
In building a system on a budget, theres going to be a little give and take, meaning your going to need to spend more in some areas and a little less in others.
Areas of importance, where you spend the most, are going to be your cpu, video card, ram, and motherboard. Basically in that order too.
Everywhere else, to a certain degree, you can cut corners with the costs.
Things like cases, harddrives, cd/dvd drives, and monitors can carry over from build to build. Not always, but chances are usually good.
My philosophy on the game market is; look at the box's requirements, then the suggested, and then I will go past that as far as I possibly can, to save myself from building another computer too soon for that next game.
ApacNTS:
From what I see you saying I can see a few things that raise my eyebrow a bit.
First thing, go with AMD. You will have better results in the long run, better performance, and in some cases cheaper costs.
If you can manage to somehow raise enough cash and get yourself into something with a Winchester, Venice or even a San Diego core, not only will you have lower temps(they run on lower volts, 1.4v or less), but you will have a good cpu that will last you about 2-3 years.
If you do go with AMD stick with the socket 939, its the way to go, ask anyone.
You can find some value ram for about $100 US for 1gb, anything lower then that(512mb) and you will lose performance for these new games coming out. Value ram isnt always the best, but when you're on a budget you get what you can.
Its pretty important not to cut yourself short in this area, otherwise you can create yourself a bottle neck.
I don't know much about Intel and their mobos, but a good AMD mobo can be found for about $90-125 US. Try to catch a sale, or free shipping. A little patience here goes a long ways in saving an extra 10-15 bucks to put towards that case or new hard drive.
What you are getting off eBay is a little fishy in my eyes. Ebay tends to be refurbished units, or off brands that no one wants anyways. Sometimes you find good deals if you look hard enough.
If it's used and came outta some rich boys comps that he's updating already, I guess that's ok. But otherwise I would just stick with Newegg.com or you local comp dealer.
You say you found a 256mb for $100, what are the specs on it, is it new, and what brand? Remember eBay doesn't necessarily have a return policy as it varies buy seller, so if you get something used you are taking a bigger risk.
What harddrive are you buying thats costing $80 for 40gb? Usually you can find ata133 for about .50$ per gig on the high end drives (200-300gb) and $1 per gig on the lower drives (40-80gb). I would stick with a bigger drive if you want to get more bang for your buck here.
Finally, you mention a dvd drive you saw on Newegg.com. I think Newegg.com is a great site to buy from and I would recommend buying all your parts there after some price comparisons with other sites and stores.
Just make sure you get yourself some name brand stuff, just so you don't have to go through the headache of RMA'ing you item. Newegg is good on service tho.
That's a pretty good rundown right there, maybe more information then you even wanted.
I would post names, specs, and models of everything you are planning on buying and see what other people have to say first about it before you make any decisions tho. Just to cover you butt. :P
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Re: help with building a computer
heh, oh you better believe i am, especially with my limited knowledge. best help comes from someone who knows good and bad. i also mistrust ebay, none of the processors had packaging except a few, just the bare chip.
the vid card i looked at was: http://cgi.ebay.com/ATI-RADEON-9600X...QQcmdZViewItem (old sale but guy has some similar still)
i misstyped the bit about the drive, it was 80gb for about 51, reasonable, but ebay had it for like 20....heh trying to cut corners man.
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Re: help with building a computer
Quote:
Originally Posted by ApacNTS
well currently on newegg the price of an amd 2.4ghz processor is around *checks* 300 just for the chip with no heatsink or fan/compound. whereas a p4 3gig chip+hs/fan is 177.50. :(
The AMD processor you are talking about will blow that Intel out of the water man. They aren't even in the same league.
The AMD is a mobile processor, its 64 bit, and its got better L1 cache.
This processor is more comparable to a 3.7 gig proc.
Edit: Take a look at this Comparable Amd Proc
Its even got a faster FSB, and its a Venice core(lower volts=lower temp).
You're not seeing AMD for what they offer, you are looking too much into the processors speeds and not what they can do. AMD runs on a different architecture and can achieve the results of an Intel but at slower speeds. That doesn't make them slower chips.
Don't get me wrong, Intel makes a very good chip. Just compare then correctly and you will see that AMD can be cheaper, and in this area you are talking about, they are cheaper.
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Re: help with building a computer
i see someone said he clocked at 2.8 easily. i didnt realize it was a mobile either, that would help explaint the price a bit. hmmm see the only problem is the processor would have to do atleast 2.8ghz, really i need it to do 3ghz, as you said games are quickly moving up and up the chain, 6months now brings entirely new things, where it used to take years.
weird how one game just hooked me into pc gaming, until now i never cared, played unreal tournament a couple of times, tried to play half life 1 on this,...i think that pushed me over the edge *laughs*
edit: another thing, i dont want to overclock, and if i bought all this then it lagged i'd just be screwed.
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Re: help with building a computer
Out of date card, but it would be servicable. I don't think it would play F.E.A.R. in a way that would make you happy. You would most likely have all the setting on the lowest possible and then you would just get by.
I haven't looked at the specs for F.E.A.R. just yet, still wrapped up in Battlefield 2, but I know this: I run an ATI 9800Pro, a few steps above the 9600xt, and BF2 recommends medium settings for my card.
So I am guessing a 9600xt would run on low settings for that game(BF2).
Also, this is an AGP card and most likely you will be getting into a PCI-E card(pci-express). Take a look at the x800 series, you can find some decent cards for around $170 . Not a bad card here.
Edit: When you are talking video cards, you need to pay attention to 1) Pipelines 2) GPU speeds 3) Memory Speeds and finally 4) Memory size i.e 128 mb, 256mb, etc.
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Re: help with building a computer
see i knew none of this, i thought that 9800xt was pretty good, if you hadnt of told me i would have been SOL. that is a nice card and the price actually isnt bad with the mail in rebate. it fits withing the requirments for f.e.a.r. which are as of now:
MINIMUM SYSTEM REQUIRED
· Windows®XP or 2000 with latest service pack installed
· DirectX®9.0c (June Edition) or higher
· Pentium® 4 1.7 GHz or equivalent processor
· 512 MB of RAM or more
· 64 MB GeForce™ 4 Ti or Radeon® 9000 video card
· Monitor that can display in 4:3 aspect ratio
· 5.0 GB free Hard Drive Space for installation
· Additional hard drive space for a swap file and saved game files
· 4x CD-ROM drive (DVD-ROM drive for Director's Edition)
· 16-bit DirectX® 9.0 compliant sound card with support for EAX™ 2.0
· Broadband or LAN connection for multiplayer games
· Mouse
· Keyboard
RECOMMENDED HARDWARE
·Pentium® 4 3.0 GHz or equivalent processor
·1 GB RAM
·A 256 MB Radeon® 9800 Pro or equivalent DirectX® 9 compliant video car with hardware T&L and pixel shader 2.0 support
SUPPORTED CHIPSETS
ATI® Radeon® 9000 Series, Radeon® 9500 Series, Radeon® 9600 Series, Radeon® 9700 Series, Radeon® 9800 Series, Radeon® X600 Series, Radeon® X700 Series, Radeon® X800 Series, Radeon® X850 Series
Nvidia GeForce™ 4Ti Series, GeForce™ FX 5900 Series, 600 Series, 6800 Series, 7800 Series
sidenote: battlefield 2 caught my eye as well, it looked amazing, i never played bf1, but i think i would jump right into bf2.
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Re: help with building a computer
Quote:
Originally Posted by ApacNTS
see i knew none of this, i thought that 9800xt was pretty good, if you hadnt of told me i would have been SOL.
Your link said 9600xt bro, not sure if you have a type-o or not. But if it was a 9800xt 256 mb, I would say go for it.
Edit:
RECOMMENDED HARDWARE
·Pentium® 4 3.0 GHz or equivalent processor
·1 GB RAM
·A 256 MB Radeon® 9800 Pro or equivalent DirectX® 9 compliant video car with hardware T&L and pixel shader 2.0 support
Yeah you see right there, they are telling you: If you want to enjoy this game how it was meant to be played, meet and beat these recommendations.
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Re: help with building a computer
oh shit, i never even saw it. i swore it was 9800xt, well that explains the price now. wow talk about egg on my face, played out for the world to see. *laughs* im literally speechless right now. now i have to learn about amd stuff, a whole new world.
edit: i see that all too clearly now, from my perspective im just trying to get my foot in the door of gaming.
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Re: help with building a computer
ApacNTS my friend you are on the road to enlightenment. ;)
Don't let me burst your bubble here, I just like to take a realistic perspective and I certainly wouldn't want you to buy something that would just screw yourself.
We all work on budgets, some just bigger then others. Make the most of what you got and you can't go wrong. :D
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Re: help with building a computer
thank you for the help, im sure i'll have many questions as time follows, but for now im gonna sleep on this, and probably draw up prices at work just to see how steep the hill goes.
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Re: help with building a computer
If you want a good computer thats gonna last a couple years, try to double your budget.
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Re: help with building a computer
ya, atleast 1000 dollars, or you wont be able to enjoy FEAR, or any other game coming out. just save money like crazy.
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Re: help with building a computer
Quote:
Originally Posted by ApacNTS
hmmm see the only problem is the processor would have to do atleast 2.8ghz, really i need it to do 3ghz
No, you don't need that sort of processor speed.
If you get a P4 you will probably want it to run at that sort of speed.
If you want to get the equivalent performance from an AMD Athon64 chip, it only needs to run at about 1.8GHz.
Intel have been shouting about higher clock speeds for years. AMD have been saying better design can give the same performance. Intel now have big problems because their chips are overheating. Meanwhile, AMD chips only need about 60% of the clock speed to achieve the same performance, and consequently they haven't got the same heat consideration.
Consider this - Intel promised a 4GHz P4 by Q2 of this year. Where is it?
Meanwhile AMD have the Athlon 64 FX57 running at 2.8GHz, apply the 60% loading and that's equivalent to about 4.6GHz in a P4. OK, it is expensive, but it exists.
To compare like for like (as near as possible), look at the AMD Athlon 64 3800+ and the Intel Pentium 4 570J. You'll find they have approximately the same performance. I think the AMD chip is probably the one you found running at 2.4GHz. The retail version sells on Newegg for $323. The Intel chip sells for
$632. I rest my case.
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Re: help with building a computer
Ya, lynx actually put it into better words then I could ever imagine lol. AMD really is for gamers, Intel is just for people who want "brand name" products regardless of quality, I'm not saying that AMD is unpopular nor that Intel's product quality standards are low, I'm just saying that AMD is the more smarter choice. I had an Intel once (1.7ghz) and it was POS, my uncle gave us an AMD which was about 1.2 ghz, and lemme tell u something it was almost as if it was a 2.0ghz machine :D . If you want to play FEAR to its full potential, AMD is really the only way to go since it's better and in most cases CHEAPER than Intel.
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Re: help with building a computer
oh im sold on AMD now, see heres the thing, i dont know how amd works, i see where it says the core clock is 1.8ghz, but people say it will run higher, so how do i know what results i could achieve? also this isnt with oc'n is it? likewise if the chip is cooler i can buy a cheapo case and it'll be fine.
as far as intels. heh let me say this, every intel i've had, which now is about 4, has bottled up beyond belief, locked up, jammed, and in some cases just crash. so moving to amd is probably the smartest move i can make.
i'll probably...no i will need help with choosing the cpu and mobo, dont think i can screw up the ram or ata drive, but i'll ask just to be sure, any suggestions? for reference atleast my budget still sucks like paris hilton on a night vision camera :p
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Re: help with building a computer
Quote:
Originally Posted by ApacNTS
likewise if the chip is cooler i can buy a cheapo case and it'll be fine.
Wrong.
Although the CPU itself does run considerably cooler ( the Venice/San Diego/Winchester 90nm cores will idle in the low to mid 20's), the northbridge and video cards are little furnaces.
Airflow will still be of paramount importance.
Furthermore, cheap cases usually come bundled with cheap power supplies and that will be the kiss of death for your PC.
Figure you will need a minimum of a quality 450w PSU- higher would be better.
The Antec 480w Neopower is the lowest rung PSU I would recommend and the real good ones (Seasonic S12 600, fer instance) are even more expensive.
Recommendations:
-DFI LanParty motherboard
-AMD a64 3000+ Venice
-Patriot "EP" RAM
-XFX 6800 GT video card
I can vouch for all of these (and the combination) cause that's what I('ve) run so I know it works.
You can spend more on the CPU (if you want) and more memory is always a good thing (shoot for a gig), but this platform will do what you want.
The rest you can figure out yourself.
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Re: help with building a computer
heh i see you spared no expense, would make a hell of a gaming station. surprised the ram was that cheap, to be of that quality. nice price for the cpu to. that mobo is something else. thanks for the links man :D
about the case, i figured as much, like i said in one of my other post about the "coffin" effect.
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Re: help with building a computer
Quote:
Originally Posted by ApacNTS
heh i see you spared no expense
I thought I showed quite a bit of restraint actually.
Personally I would go for a 2.2GHz San Diego chip and a 7800 vid card.
The parts I posted would be for a "budget" gaming machine.
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Re: help with building a computer
it wasnt the cpu that threw me, more the mobo. i know video cards can be outrageous in both price and performance. out of curiosity what specs do you have for your system?
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Re: help with building a computer
case: CM Stacker or Silverstone TJ-06 ( the Silverstone has been extensively modified for watercooling, the Stacker is now aircooled- but that could change at the drop of a hat)
Motherboard: DFI LanParty NF4 SLI-DR
CPU: 3500 Winchester s939
RAM: 2x 1GB Patriot EP ( I use 2x512MB for benchmarks, but they may be sold soon)
Video: 2x XFX 6800 GT (only one card installed while I work out the cooling)
PSU: Seasonic S12 600w
HDD: 3x36GB ( two installed with one in the mail) WD Raptor (RAID 0) and 1x 120GB Seagate SATA
Optical: Plextor 716 SATA DVD-RW
I am currently working out the cooling for the Stacker.
The goal is to not modify the case exterior at all ( a big challenge for me, I tend to be a bit trigger happy).
As I progress pics will be posted...Sprocket is a total attention whore.
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Re: help with building a computer
Quote:
Originally Posted by clocker
That board and that video card aren't *budget*.
This guy said he has like $350.
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Re: help with building a computer
Quote:
Originally Posted by JunkBarMan
That board and that video card aren't *budget*.
This guy said he has like $350.
Then the first chip he gets to ante into this game is his innocence.
That machine is barely capable of running Vista much less cruising through F.E.A.R.
With $350 he can buy an Etch-A-Sketch and a nice piggy bank.
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Re: help with building a computer
Quote:
Originally Posted by ApacNTS
oh im sold on AMD now, see heres the thing, i dont know how amd works, i see where it says the core clock is 1.8ghz, but people say it will run higher, so how do i know what results i could achieve? also this isnt with oc'n is it?
Most AMD processors have a performance rating.
It is roughly based on the performance of the original Athlon chip. So the Athlon XP 3000+ has a rating which is approximately equivalent to an Athlon chip running at 3000MHz (or 3GHz).
The original Athlon easily beat the P3 running at the same speed for most tasks. Early P4's still lagged slightly, mid term P4's about matched, and later P4's probably have a slight edge.
So a P4 running at 3GHz is probably marginally faster than an AthlonXP 3000+. I'm not sure how that pans out with the Athlon64 range, the comparisons are slightly different, but it is fairly safe to say you would still be in the same area of performance. Intel, now that their "speed is everything" myth has been dispelled, have instead gone for a processor numbering system which tells you nothing about relative performance.
When people say the chips will run higher, they are indeed talking about overclocking. My motherboard gives a 4% overclock as standard, but it is simply to knock that back if required. However, I've boosted that to 15% on stock cooling without any problems.
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Re: help with building a computer
Quote:
Originally Posted by clocker
Quote:
Originally Posted by JunkBarMan
That board and that video card aren't *budget*.
This guy said he has like $350.
Then the first chip he gets to ante into this game is his innocence.
That machine is barely capable of running Vista much less cruising through F.E.A.R.
With $350 he can buy an Etch-A-Sketch and a nice piggy bank.
:lol: :lol: :lol: couldnt help but laugh at that. reminds me of that weird al song "Got a flat-screen monitor forty inches wide wide, I believe that your says "Etch-A-Sketch" on the side"
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Re: help with building a computer
I did not know that Weird Al was popular throughout the Empire.
Learn something new every day.
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Re: help with building a computer
clocker after looking up your cpu and it's specs im sitting here with my jaw dropped, that motha must kick ass and take names on every thing you throw at it. what is that in number of ghz somewhere around 3.5ghz??? insanity. 2.2for core another 2 in fsb..128 in cache 1 and 512 cache 2, you got a supercharged machine man. btw, about dual cores, which im taking you have since you are attempting to run 2 vid cards, is it really necessary? i read about sli and how they do half on one and half on another are you going that route? it said the diffrence was marginal on some applications but phenominal on others, i mean is it really that huge? especially with the prices of vid cards.
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Re: help with building a computer
Don't listen to clocker if you want a budget machine.
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Re: help with building a computer
Quote:
Originally Posted by Virtualbody1234
Don't listen to clocker if you want a budget machine.
:lol: :lol: Thats sooo tru!!! :lol:
put him on ur ignore list :happy:
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Re: help with building a computer
Quote:
Originally Posted by ApacNTS
clocker after looking up your cpu and it's specs im sitting here with my jaw dropped, that motha must kick ass and take names on every thing you throw at it.
But of course.
Sprocket is a harsh and needy mistress.
what is that in number of ghz somewhere around 3.5ghz??? insanity.
Insanity, indeed.
Stock speed is 2.2GHz and I run between 2.4-2.6GHz daily.
2.2for core another 2 in fsb..128 in cache 1 and 512 cache 2, you got a supercharged machine man.
Huh?
btw, about dual cores, which im taking you have since you are attempting to run 2 vid cards, is it really necessary?
No, I don't have an x2 (yet). SLI does not require them.
i read about sli and how they do half on one and half on another are you going that route?
I'm trying to, yes.
it said the diffrence was marginal on some applications but phenominal on others, i mean is it really that huge?
Don't know yet.
especially with the prices of vid cards.
If you don't spend insane money on your diversions, the terrorists have won.
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Re: help with building a computer
2.2 ghz is clock speed, it has another 1ghz in fsb, L1 cache has 64+64kb enabled and L2 cache has 512kb. it's alot in terms of what you normally see. vrooom vroooom, hah you named your computer, thats great.
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Re: help with building a computer
Quote:
Originally Posted by Virtualbody1234
Don't listen to clocker if you want a budget machine.
Quote:
Originally Posted by ApacNTS
im planning on building a new system(for the first time) basically this computer is well beyond it's time, i want to make a pc that can play the upcoming game F.E.A.R.
cough*Ahem*cough
I have reread the mission statement and don't see the word "budget" anywhere.
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Re: help with building a computer
cough*Ahem*cough
Quote:
Originally Posted by ApacNTS
heh i feared as much about the motherboard. my budget is about 350 at best by the end of october. now i'll go crawl under a rock cause im an outcast *hides* amd is hella pricy, i dont know how you guys get all that uber sweet gear.
:P
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Re: help with building a computer
OK, I admit it.
Every day in my realife job I deal with customers who want "X", but will only pay for "Z".
When I post here I indulge myself and only pay attention to the "want" half of the equation...after all, there is no financial incentive for me to struggle reconciling desire with disposable income.
If a person walked into the shop and requested a machine to play F.E.A.R. (or Doom3 or RollerCoaster Tycoon 10 or whatever) on a budget of $350 my best offer would be to let them rent time on my PC, cause you sure as hell cannot build a gaming box for that amount.
Besides, how many of these threads are just blue sky dreams anyway?
Seems like the majority of the "Help me build a machine" topics never make it beyond the pixellated stage.