What Really Happened

[Rocko]

The real war ....


Death Iraq soldiers . Look the white flag



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http://www.whatreallyhappened.com/basra2.jpg

http://www.whatreallyhappened.com/basra5.jpg

http://www.whatreallyhappened.com/basra3.jpg

http://www.whatreallyhappened.com/manandgirl.jpg

If this girl was your sister? ... would you going to forgive the people that do this... to her.

This is what really happend in the war.


Rocko

Edit: changed some of the pics as link because they are very crude

[kAb]

could you please post the extremely graphic ones in links. i really did not need to see that this morning

also, our soldiers wouldn't fire on white flags unless there was a threat. remember when we welcome them and our soldiers died? chances are they either saw a gun, or were getting fired at.

edit: again i ask you, put those in links with a WARNING sign next to them

edit again: i see the white flag. but who knows...

[DiogenesUK]

Originally posted by kAb@25 April 2003 - 18:21
could you please post the extremely graphic ones in links. i really did not need to see that this morning 

also, i don't see the white flags. they look like potatoe sacks to me. also, our soldiers wouldn't fire on  white flags unless there was a threat. remember when we welcome them and our soldiers died? chances are they either saw a gun, or were getting fired at.

edit:

again i ask you, put those in links with a WARNING sign next to them 

Yeah,I also believe all the stories about 'friendly' fire were just the result of a conspiracy by the extremely left-wing journalists & their communist masters,such as AOL-Warner & Rupert 'The Red' Murdoch

Now then,where are my spectacles?.....the ones especially prescribed for a severe case of selective myopia B)



Take care

[Jibbler]

Some innocent civilians were harmed, some killed. However, thousands more people have been killed by the very same government that has been established there for 30 years. The collective forces have served a great cause for the nation of Iraq. Those people will now be free to live without the violent oppression of their own government. The world is a safer place now. You won't weaken my resolve by some disturbing pictures.

[kAb]

Originally posted by Jibbler@25 April 2003 - 16:28
Some innocent civilians were harmed, some killed. However, thousands more people have been killed by the very same government that has been established there for 30 years. The collective forces have served a great cause for the nation of Iraq. Those people will now be free to live without the violent oppression of their own government. The world is a safer place now. You won't weaken my resolve by some disturbing pictures.

wow. another person on this board that isn't liberal.

(i mean this in a good way)

[j2k4]

Originally posted by kAb+25 April 2003 - 20:23--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td>QUOTE (kAb @ 25 April 2003 - 20:23)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'> <!--QuoteBegin--Jibbler@25 April 2003 - 16:28
Some innocent civilians were harmed, some killed.&nbsp; However, thousands more people have been killed by the very same government that has been established there for 30 years.&nbsp; The collective forces have served a great cause for the nation of Iraq.&nbsp; Those people will now be free to live without the violent oppression of their own government.&nbsp; The world is a safer place now.&nbsp; You won&#39;t weaken my resolve by some disturbing pictures.

wow. another person on this board that isn&#39;t liberal.

(i mean this in a good way) [/b][/quote]
kAb-

You are wise beyond your years-let&#39;s see if you catch hell for being rational

[chloe_cc2002]

Those people will now be free to live without the violent oppression of their own government. The world is a safer place now. You won&#39;t weaken my resolve by some disturbing pictures.

I certainly hope you are right. However history would tell us that regime changes don&#39;t always have happy endings and in the Middle East I would imagine there are people who have optimistically looked forward to a benevolent regime only to face being re-traumatised.

Wherever there is oil there is a potential for corruption, and that will always be the case with the Middle East.

I hope they do the mop up well, preserve records at all costs. Without any attempt to set up the tribunals properly and without a proper UN oversight over the process, I fear that &#39;mistakes&#39; will remain buried, people will continue to be victimised and there will be further casualties (how many refugees are going to successfully make it???)

1978-9 was a defining moment in Middle East history.

I think I&#39;ll wait it out and see what happens....I am glad that Saddam is gone but I think it was a pyhrric victory for many. On the other hand, being a cynic I also subscribe to the view that history is written by the victors, and therein lies the problem. There has to be some openness and accountability in the change of regime, and the US enthusiasm to become overly involved in it should be tempered.

[Jibbler]

Originally posted by chloe_cc2002@25 April 2003 - 23:01

Those people will now be free to live without the violent oppression of their own government. The world is a safer place now. You won&#39;t weaken my resolve by some disturbing pictures.

I certainly hope you are right. However history would tell us that regime changes don&#39;t always have happy endings and in the Middle East I would imagine there are people who have optimistically looked forward to a benevolent regime only to face being re-traumatised.

This is very true. However, the coalition can only do so much. We have freed them from oppression, we have provided food, water, medical supplies, rebuilt their power grid, and their oil wells are now producing again. We are working to create a democratic government there.

The tools are in place for Iraq to flourish as a nation. They could surpass Syria, Iran, Turkey, Isreal and other middle-eastern countries. There is always an opportunity for this to fail, but I believe that the Iraqi people can build a strong nation with the help we have provided. Only time can answer these questions for us.

There is an incredible opportunity here for the Iraqi people. There are some very wise people in their nation faced with the challenge of bringing this country into the 21st century.

[chloe_cc2002]

I hope so.

The problem is that the US is &#39;handpicking&#39; the representatives of the tribunal and some have suggested that this is by design so that they may be inspired by some ulterior agenda. Trials that investigate crimes such as genocide under the "auspices" of an interim Government that is selected by the US could have the appearance of lacking in partiality, being under the control of the US.

Some commentators have suggested that whilst it is important that the Iraqi people have control over the process of accountability, there is a further problem that may detract from their credibility and appearance of neutrality.

The two sources for the constitution of the tribunal are the Iraqi exiles and those who served in the Iraqi system under Ba&#39;ath party rule. The difficulty in avoiding tensions becomes clear and it is quite complex. The appearance of impartiality is just as important as the reality. Those who have served under Ba&#39;ath party rule could be seen as politically motivated or compromised. There are problems with those repressed by the former regime, the Kurds & Shia, despite their qualifications for similar reasons. They would face credibility problems in the eyes of other Arab countries.

Many suggest and I think correctly that the tribunal should be a mixed one and that UN involvement in terms of oversight and resources is critical to creating the appearance and reality of fair, impartial and independent trials.

"The United States and its coalition partners have a responsibility to help build a strong and independent judiciary for Iraq. In the meantime, we urge you to work towards the establishment either of an international ad hoc tribunal authorized by the Security Council, or, if that is not possible, a mixed national-international court, created either by the Security Council or an agreement between the U.N. and an interim Iraqi authority"

These are the sentiments expressed in communications to the UN, and I think they all stem from the same concerns, namely the desire to avoid ad hoc and arbitrary justice being meted out in an atmosphere which could give rise to "post conflict" Iraqi justice.

It is clear from their experience in Afghanistan and Yugoslavia that the US commanders have learnt of the devastation that cluster bombs can cause in areas where there are high populations of civilians. This is clearly a violation of international law. The US however has failed to PUBLICLY acknowledge the extent of this and it is fairly clear that they knew that cluster munitions had not only a high failure rate in terms of precision and leaving duds around which would cause additional carnage.

I think that the US detaching themselves from the process would lend credibility to the process. This is especially so when the US have been involved in securing the "victory" and they are showing that they are not willing to be responsive to claims that they have been in flagrant breach of international law themselves. It is disingenuous.

[echidna]

Nice Orwellian Newspeak kAb,
liberal = militant facist simpathiser
there is no liberation
US troops watch as the recorrds of Iraq burn [except for the oil ministry]
US troops watch as hospitals and museums are looted [that museun had the artifacts of writing and the wheel]
US troops watch while medicine and water and electricity are not made available to Bagdad

US troops watch but can&#39;t find Saddam or the weapons they went to get

the only people fooled are US fools