Nra And Kazaa

[Benno]

@OlderThanDirt

You mean that one culture can be so much more violate than an other? Well I dont know many american citizens so I cant say much about american culture.

The fact that gun ownership is mandatory in Switzerland is not quite correct.
Switzerland do have a mandatory military service, and you have every few years some sort of training, so you take your weapon home with you.

Anyway I will be more carefull with my next beer.

@dave

I dont know about all countries, but I do know that in europe you have very few shootings compared to the USA.
For example here in Austria there is probably a shooting once a year.

[OlderThanDirt]

jtbuffer wrote:

the missile company was for non-violent civilian puposes???

Moore intones that the missiles with their "Pentagon payloads" are trucked through the town "in the middle of the night while the children are asleep." Moore asks whether knowledge that weapons of "mass destruction" were being built nearby might have motivated the Columbine shooters.

After Bowling was released someone checked and found that the Lockheed-Martin plant does not build weapons-type missiles; it makes rockets for launching satellites.

[jtbuffer]

[QUOTE]

After Bowling was released someone checked and found that the Lockheed-Martin plant does not build weapons-type missiles; it makes rockets for launching satellites.


'someone checked'???

if michael moore is guilty of what he is being accused of, i dont think arguements like that will help the cause...do you??

propoganda is propoganda

'telling lies to our children' - dead prez - propoganda

[OlderThanDirt]

jtbuffer wrote:

'someone checked'???

Yes, and they didn't have to check very hard since the Lockheed-Martin plant Moore referred to is part of their Space Systems Company-Astronautics Operations division. Of course, I suppose Moore could be privy to information on "secret activities" in their satellite rocket plant.

jtbuffer also wrote:

propoganda is propoganda

We agree completely on that.

[OlderThanDirt]

Benno wrote:

You mean that one culture can be so much more violate than an other? Well I dont know many american citizens so I cant say much about american culture.

Yup. I think someone earlier put their finger on the origins ... prohibition ... which led to the meteoric rise of organized crime in the U.S., fueled by alcohol smuggling from Canada (and elsewhere). You ended up with criminals owning guns for their "work" and honest citizens owning guns to protect themselves from the criminals. And, things haven't changed much since then, even after prohibition was repealed.

Benno also wrote:

The fact that gun ownership is mandatory in Switzerland is not quite correct.  Switzerland do have a mandatory military service, and you have every few years some sort of training, so you take your weapon home with you.

So, it isn't mandatory gun ownership, it's mandatory gun stewardship. Somehow, the difference between the two escapes me since the guns are still in the homes of every able-bodied man.

[Benno]

It sounds plausible what you say about the american culture but as said above I know way to few americans to take myself the right to judge them or the culture.

About Switzerland, I was born there and lived there for about 12 years. I can hardly imagine that a man take out his weapon to shoot someone. It's such a tidy and civilized country.

[Barbarossa]

Originally posted by Benno@9 May 2003 - 15:18
It's such a tidy and civilized country.

At the end of the day, that's the key really, isn't it?

[OlderThanDirt]

It sounds plausible what you say about the american culture but as said above I know way to few americans to take myself the right to judge them or the culture.

About Switzerland, I was born there and lived there for about 12 years. I can hardly imagine that a man take out his weapon to shoot someone. It's such a tidy and civilized country.

Americans, growing up in a violent culture, tend to become violent (or used to violence). The Swiss, growing up in a tidy and civilized culture, tend to become tidy and civilized. And I've heard that in Iceland, there is no minimum age for drinking alcohol -- and that, not surprisingly, they have a high rate of alcoholism. But that makes me wonder. From what I've heard, the French drink wine at meals starting at a very early age -- and they don't seem to have an alcoholism problem. But maybe the ones who drink the most grow up to be politicians instead.

[insanebassman]

I really wanted to leave this alone....
but my demons wil not let me...

I first learned to use a gun when I was about 8 years old. I learned to safely handle, clean and operate it. I was taken out to our family's shooting range and taught to respect the destruction a PERSON is capable of doing with a gun. I was then taught how to kill for food using the gun. I also learned that people could be easily killed in the same way, either accedentally or on purpose. It was drilled into my head how careful I needed to be in order to avoid this. Both my temper and care of the gun were drilled until I automatically took care at everything I did involving fire arms.

When I was 10 years old, I went through the same learning process with the Bow. A nice, long range silent weapon. I learned everything about it that I learned with the gun.

When I was 12 years old, I enrolled in a Martial arts calss. I learned that my hands, feet, and other body parts were weapons. After the first several years I learned that anything in my hands was a potential weapon when applied with enough skill. My teacher then introduced a few of us to Kendo. I learned that knives and swords were as effective as ant projectile weapon. I also learned that in the state I lived in, when in a fight, I had to inform my attacker of my skill level in Jui-Jitsu. Were I wo not inform them of my skills and use my skills to defend myself, I could be prosecuted for assault with a deadly weapon.

While continuing my martial arts training, I learned other things from my uncle. He was a Green Beret. He spent 3 tours in Vietnam and wanted to stay until the war was over, but they made him go home. He taught me that there are a number of common chemicals and bological agents that can be used to improvise weapons and tools. I was then trained that my mind, when applied to these materials, was also deadly.

All of these skills combined since childhood, make me a potential threat to anyone I come in contact with. The one thing that makes this irrelevent is the one thing taught to me during all of this "training". I learned discipline and self control. I am a compulsive person with a terrible temper. I think many many violent thoughts and have even acted on some of them. Yet, some how, I fell back on my discipline and restrained my violent urges to the benefit of my adversaries.

The moral of all this shit is this:

Weapons, knowledge and skill can all be used to hurt and destroy. It is our choices that can determine wether or not it happens. Not the devices, not the chemicals and not the providers of the weapons.

If guns are banned, I still have access to all the materials I need to destroy... At least until thought is effectively banned and controlled.

[Benno]

insanebassman I think I get your point but the thing is you dont need to learn how to kill using a gun.
Everybody can pick up a gun and shoot, well probably he will miss the target.

But to know how to destroy or kill with for example your hands and feet aint that easy and you have to learn it first.




I hope I could make myself somehow clear.