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Thread: Occult Discussions

  1. #11
    Originally posted by Rat Faced@14 May 2003 - 23:43
    ShareActor, your a witch.....you just dont know it


    In the true meaning of the word, not the 'evil hag', 'devil worshipper' meaning put about by most orthodox religions.

    Witch means 'wise' and was originaly a priest/priestess of Wicca; a Pagan religion revolving around nature.




    PS

    I dont mean the current 'Wicca' fad going around the US.

    These days Wicca has been corrupted by certain 'sects' that claim a lot, and then publish things like 'The Book of Shadows'........which just goes to show that nothing is pure anymore
    Rat Faced...

    Hehehee.. you are right!
    I am a WITCH! I know i am... Well.., in the old day's people would have burned me., on the stakes...

    And you are wrong about purity, PURE is still around! You just have to learn again where to look for it..

  2. Lounge   -   #12
    hobbes - I'm talking about spontaneous regression where you suddenly lapse into a previous life (generally at a parallel point to what you are experiencing in the present, sometimes traumatic), or astral travelling (most people think they were dreaming, but know on some level that it was real), or spiritual experiences with ghost or other beings, or knowing things you couldn't possibly know, or unexplainable gifts, or psychic abilities...




    ne1GotZardoz - your response almost made me cry dude. I'm not exactly sure why, but it sounded so sad. I think I understand, cause I feel the same way about the graves of those I love (though I haven't lost a parent - my sympathies to you ), and about my little girl, and life in general. I was asking you about your feelings to do with death because for some reason, I get the feeling that you have no fear of it, regardless of what your conscious response is. I personally have no fear of death, and am kind of excited about it. Not to die, but to find out what happens. Noone ever believes me when I say that, but it's true. I love life, and I experience it so much more than most people that I know, and I want to live it as long and as well as I can. But for some reason I think there are some answers on the other side. Maybe I'm crazy, but it's a feeling that I've had since I was a kid, and all my other feelings, though they went against everything that everyone else believed, have turned out to be very right. I thought maybe you had some light to shed on that. BTW - One of my mentors, Bill Eakins ( a kick ass bass player) had an extremely bad case of emphesema. He fought and lived to be the oldest person in history with the condition, and enjoyed every moment of his life making music, teaching, and spending time with his kids and wife. Just thought I'd mention it. Peace.

  3. Lounge   -   #13
    Originally posted by tianup@15 May 2003 - 01:28
    ne1GotZardoz - your response almost made me cry dude. I'm not exactly sure why, but it sounded so sad. I think I understand, cause I feel the same way about the graves of those I love (though I haven't lost a parent - my sympathies to you ), and about my little girl, and life in general. I was asking you about your feelings to do with death because for some reason, I get the feeling that you have no fear of it, regardless of what your conscious response is. I personally have no fear of death, and am kind of excited about it. Not to die, but to find out what happens. Noone ever believes me when I say that, but it's true. I love life, and I experience it so much more than most people that I know, and I want to live it as long and as well as I can. But for some reason I think there are some answers on the other side. Maybe I'm crazy, but it's a feeling that I've had since I was a kid, and all my other feelings, though they went against everything that everyone else believed, have turned out to be very right. I thought maybe you had some light to shed on that. BTW - One of my mentors, Bill Eakins ( a kick ass bass player) had an extremely bad case of emphesema. He fought and lived to be the oldest person in history with the condition, and enjoyed every moment of his life making music, teaching, and spending time with his kids and wife. Just thought I'd mention it. Peace.
    My feelings on what happens after death are not very original really.

    Did you ever see the movie, Jacob's Ladder with Tim Robbins?

    That is my feeling on what happens when you die.

    We go through a self-inflicted hell for awhile, until we are able to let go of the life we left behind.

    The biggest reason for that is because its hard to let go of the reality we lived with for so long.

    I believe that in that personal hell, there will be some who are never able to let go.

    I can think of two reasons why. One is that they cannot admit that they are dead. Another is that they think because they are in hell, they are not worthy of anything more, and they simply remain there, waiting for eternity.

    I don't expect there will be many who stay forever though. I think most souls will be able to cross over easily enough after a short stop in hell.

    I call it hell because of my bible upbringing.
    I don't think the bible explains it very well though.

    I've been trying to get hold of the english translation of a book by Meister Ekhart. His writings were mentioned in the movie and I'm curious.

    Peace back atcha

  4. Lounge   -   #14
    Well, I found some selected writings of Meister Eckhart and also learned that I may be a panthiest.
    I need to study into that a bit more.
    In any event, here is what I have found so far...I'll start putting these together as I find more and post a doccument on kazaa when I'm done.

    God is one.

    God is pure oneness, being free of any accretive multiplicity of distinction even at a conceptual level. [Divine Consolation]
    There is neither distinction in God nor in the Persons of the Trinity according to the unity of their nature. The divine nature is one, and each Person is both One and the same One as God's nature. [On the Noble Man]


    God is in everything.

    God is infinite in his simplicity and simple in his infinity. Therefore he is everywhere and is everywhere complete. He is everywhere on account of his infinity, and is everywhere complete on account of his simplicity. Only God flows into all things, their very essences. Nothing else flows into something else. God is in the innermost part of each and every thing, only in its innermost part. [Sermon LW XXIX]
    The One descends into everything and into each single things, yet remaining the One that unites what is distinct. [Sermon LW XXIX]

    God . . . is the being of all beings. [Sermon LW XXIX]


    All creatures are one with God.

    All things are contained in the One, by virtue of the fact that it is one. for all multiplicity is one, and is one thing, and is in and through the One. . . The One is not distinct from all things. Therefore all things in the fullness of being are in the One by virtue of its indistinction and unity. [Sermon LW XXIX]
    When we know creatures in God, then that is called a `morning knowledge,' and in this way we see creatures without any distinctions, stripped of images and likeness in the Oneness which God himself is. [On the Noble Man]
    All creatures are the utterance of God. If my mouth speaks and declares God, so too does the being of a stone. [Sermon DW 53]



    However, to unite with God we must reject the world and ourselves.

    When we turn away from ourselves and from all created things, to that extent we are united and sanctified in the soul's spark, which is untouched by either space or time. This spark is opposed to all creatures and desires nothing but God. [Sermon DW 48]
    If we are to dwell in him . . . we should take leave of ourselves and of all things and be attached to nothing external which acts upon the senses within. [Sermon DW 40]

    When the soul enters the light that is pure, she falls so far from her own created somethingness into her nothingness that in this nothingness she can no longer return to that created somethingness by her own power. [Sermon DW1]


    Mystical union with God.

    The sixth [and highest] stage comes when we are stripped of our own form and are transformed by God's eternity, becoming wholly oblivious to all transient and temporal life, drawn into and changed into an image of the divine, and have become God's son. [On the Noble Man]
    Blessedness consists primarily in the fact that the soul sees God in herself . . . Only in God's knowledge does she become wholly still. There she knows nothing but essence and God. [On the Noble Man]

    Between that person and God there is no distinction, and they are one. . . Their knowing is one with God's knowing, their activity with God's activity and their understanding with God's understanding. [Sermon DW 40]

    Therefore it is in Oneness that God is found and they who would find God must themselves become One. . . And truly, if you are properly One, then you shall remain One in the midst of distinction, and the multifold will be One for you and shall not be able to impeded you in any way. [On the Noble Man]

    When the soul is united with God, then it perfectly possesses in him all that is something. The soul forgets itself there, as it is in itself, and all things, knowing itself in God as divine, in so far as God is in it. [Sermon DW 58].


    God is outside time.

    Nothing is as opposed to God as time. . . There is no process of becoming in God, but only a present moment, that is a becoming without a becoming, a becoming-new without renewal. . . All that is in God is an eternal present- time without renewal. [Sermon DW 50]
    God is thought.

    God alone truly is, and . . he is intellect or thought, and . . he is thought alone to which no other being is added. [Sermon LW XXIX].
    Beyond God.

    I have occasionally spoken of a light in the soul which is uncreated and uncreatable. . . . This light is not satisfied with the simple, still and divine being which neither gives nor takes, but rather it desires to know from where this being comes. It wants to penetrate to the simple ground, to the still desert, into which distinction never peeped, neither Father, Son nor Holy Spirit. There, in that most inward place, where everyone is a stranger, the light is satisfied, and there it is more inward than it is in itself, for this ground is a simple stillness which is immovable in itself. But all things are moved by this immovability and all the forms of life are conceived by it which, possessing the light of reason, live of themselves. [Sermon DW 48]


    --------------------------------------------------------------------------------



    SCIENTIFIC PANTHEISM
    is the belief that the universe and nature are divine.
    It fuses religion and science, and concern for humans with concern for nature.
    It provides the most realistic concept of life after death,
    and the most solid basis for environmental ethics.
    It is a religion that requires no faith other than common sense,
    no revelation other than open eyes and a mind open to evidence,
    no guru other than your own self.
    For an outline, see Basic principles of scientific pantheism. Top.
    If you would like to spread the message of scientific pantheism please include a link to Pantheist pages in your pages, or mirror the page at your site by saving this and other pages.

  5. Lounge   -   #15
    Originally posted by ne1GotZardoz@15 May 2003 - 11:27
    God is one.

    God is in everything.

    God . . . is the being of all beings.

    All creatures are one with God.

    Well.... read my reply again... it's the same!

  6. Lounge   -   #16
    Everyone seems very spiritual here, so because I'm bored I'd like to make the case for the 'other' side. You all seem to have drawn a line where science ends and spirituality begins. Where do u draw this line? Why is death anything special? Its just the point at which your brain cells stop functioning and your synapses stop firing. I was reading a book on the way that the brain works (this all comes from studies of people who's brains have been damaged in some way) and it made some very interesting points on the way religion is practically hard coded into our brains. eg people who experience frontal lobe epilepsy will experience intense and (for them) incontrovertible religious (and not other types of) 'visions' and also various other damaged parts of the brain can lead to strong beliefs in God. Obviously I'm not saying everyone religious is brain damaged I just thought it was interesting that parts of the brain seem to be strongly linked to spirituality.
    In my personal opinion life itself isn't anything special, but we are inately programmed to treasure it (evolution over millions of years does that to u)
    Would be interested in anyone elses thoughts on where they draw the line between science and spirituality
    eg life after death, evolution, parallel/multiple universes, other dimensions, the meaning of consciousness & life (I think those are the main ones where people start to waiver)

    PS what is the scientific aspect of Pantheism? I looked into the Eckhart guy a little bit, but everything was purely spiritual.

  7. Lounge   -   #17
    Originally posted by ne1GotZardoz@15 May 2003 - 12:27
    SCIENTIFIC PANTHEISM

    is the belief that the universe and nature are divine.
    It fuses religion and science, and concern for humans with concern for nature.
    It provides the most realistic concept of life after death,
    and the most solid basis for environmental ethics.
    It is a religion that requires no faith other than common sense,
    no revelation other than open eyes and a mind open to evidence,
    no guru other than your own self.
    This statement makes sense to me in many ways, however, there seems to be a major conflict between this and everything else in your post about Pantheism. The statement agrees with most of the "God is the name we've (some of us) given to LIFE or EVERYTHING" premises we've talked about, but then it carries on to speak about"God" in terms of a being with specific qualities and rules (though not nearly as tangible as the ones most of us know), and the writings still seem to convey a strong religious "God will save your soul....believe in the Almighty" king of thing, which disagrees entirely with the statement SCIENTIFIC PANTHEISM.

    Also - your statement about death is similar to what I believe is the natural progression of souls. As you achieve enlightenment on earth, your joy increases as your knowledge and understanding and peace and acceptance progress. This is a spiritual pursuit, which is required to evolve as a human being. Why would the pursuit of your actual spirit be any different. It's natural state is the pursuit of enlightenment and revelation - understanding and acceptance. The definition of hell to me would be a world of denial and fear - a choice and condition as opposed to a punishment or test, available to those on earth AND beyond.


    @ShareActor - It sounds the same, but I don't think you said exactly the same thing. I guess it depends on your true perspective, as your post was quite short. I got the impression you meant that God is the name some of us give to the "force" we are aware of which is everything, but not God or any type of being, just LIFE. I have many friends, however, who believe in the same idea, but still insist on calling it God. So I call it God around them, but to me the idea we're talking about defies any accepted definition of God that I've heard...

    @ian_l_williams - I agree with you about some of the scientific aspects of death, however, are you aware that SCIENCE can now actually see, measure, and follow the spirit or soul leaving the body at death (and in astral travelling)? That to me should at least have people who don't believe in the soul or spirit asking some questions.

    I would imagine that the brain damage you are talking about is not that different from extreme social/psychological conditioning, where the person in question is taught a specific belief, which they are then unable to question or doubt, let alone release themselves from.

    Personally, I think science and spirituality are the same thing, or maybe two halves of a whole. I think they get closer and closer all the time, and I think you would be hard pressed to find many who still believe that they are opposites that contradict each other. Every day, science proves that something once thought purely spiritual speculation is true and real, and vice versa for the spiritualists. And I think that is the only way we will survive, let alone evolve. It's all the pursuit of enlightenment, and regardless of what you believe in, that's what we are here for.

  8. Lounge   -   #18
    Very Interesting topic. For many years I have researched into the topic of the " occult".
    Lots of interesting ideas presented here.

    Like so many of us I also started out with the Bile as a reference into my search for the unknown and hidden. The Bible for what it is worth gives us many clues and obscure refrences to follow for knowledge that is in fact OLDER.

    Look especially at the book of Genesis... So many references are to older texts ( Sumerian, etc...)

    But there are many other biblical texts out there to look into. Remember not existing texts were included in the current bible as it is printed today.

    But in the end what the occult boils down to is this.....

    Do you believe in a higher power than yourself?

    Personally I do believe in the Lord God and in Christ. EVERYTHING in this universe as we can percieve it is to logical and orderly to be the product of chaos and natural selection.

    As we as a species mature we are finding more and more order in the universe not the chaos we were taught to believe in school( based on darwins theroy).

    There is a mind in control of creation, and we are only the pots not the potter. We may not be able to see everything as clearly but if we try we can see eventulally.

    This is just my point of view when looking at the Bible but in its sum it is a PERSON.
    Everything that a person would live and can live is in there. It is the summation of a human being, traced back from the line of Adam going into the distant future to the coming of Christ( or the second Adam).


    The Bible is humanity in its essence. True understanding comes from understanding the fact that we are ALL a splintered part of God, we are given a part of His essence apoun creation.

    We are all gods if you want to look at it like that.

  9. Lounge   -   #19
    Tianup,

    That post was a direct copy from a web site that I was hoping would link, since there were links to it in the post itself.
    When I'm looking at it though, All I see is the text that was blue underlined on the page, so I'll put the link in here:

    Meister Eckhart

    As I've been researching his life, it seems he was accused of heresy during the inquisition and only escaped death due to his notoriety and his "admission" that he may have been mistaken on a few points.

    Much of his work was destroyed or lost.

    One main thing to understand is that he was a priest and much of what remains of his writings, is in the form of sermons to his congregation.
    But he was a highly inteligent and inquisitive man, and questioned everything. He got very deeply into his religion and was not afraid to study doctrines that seemed to oppose it.
    I believe I saw a post somewhere that he wrote about the Koran. I'm curious to read that and get his take on it.
    His understanding was constantly evolving as you can tell from the writings on that page.
    As he got older, (as is true of everyone), his understanding changed. And so his teachings changed.
    I'm going to be looking into this for a little while. I'll try to be as thorough as I can and I'll post the doc file when I'm through.

  10. Lounge   -   #20
    Interesting site - I'll dig in when I get a little more time. You're right, I had a very different impression from reading your post without the links. Out of curiousity, have you read Thus Spoke Zarathustra (by another german, Friedrich Nietzche - you can download the text or e-book for free at http://www.textlibrary.com/TITLE/thus-spa/ ). It's one of my favorite pieces of literature, and perhaps my favorite philosophical work. His life sounds very much like Meister Eckhart's. Nietzche penned the phrase and philosophy "God is dead, long live the Superman", suggesting that our species had evolved to the point of putting away our need for Deity's, as we were becoming (and in reality, always were) God (in essence). Very interesting book, written very much like the bible, in terms of parables, hardships, journeys and challeges. If you haven't read it, consider it a MUST for someone like yourself - the search for enlightenment....

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