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Thread: Occult Discussions

  1. #31
    @Rat Faced :you also still want to promote your anar*hy c00kb00k?

    (why did I remember that?)

  2. Lounge   -   #32
    Originally posted by hobbes@16 May 2003 - 03:22


    But in a societal sense, the collaring of chaos has lead to devolution in man.

    Why?

    Being the only organisms who have an awareness of our ultimate demise and our own mortality, we have generated laws and created law enforcement to protect the weak. 

    Why?  Because we are all weak in some facet, we can all extrapolate to "what if that poor soul were me", so we all support this system.

    From an evolutionary standpoint we are propagating the weak with the strong.

    We are, through humanity, propaging all of the genetic frailities in the gene pool.

    Eventually we will have a race totally dependent upon society to support them, meaning that, if society is disrupted, we will all have some fatal flaw which will make us unable to support ourselves (diabetes, myopia, heart dz, etc.). 

    An individual, dependent upon society for survival is de-evolved.

    We can fix this, but only by fixing the genetic code, not to some ideal human, but rather to one who is self suffiecient once the amenities of society have been stripped away.

    Interesting points. In terms of chaos and order, which you present in a kind of "good vs. evil" relationship, I see it the other way. Chaos and Order are the two required opposites, or the Yin and Yang of energy forces in our universe, and our bodies and spirituality. Without one, the other cannot exist, and they both have necessary qualities for ALL life to exist, and ALL energy (which IS all life) to flow. These are just two more names for the polarities that have been noted by the wise and spiritual for millenia.


    But in a sense, you are right, as an inbalance COULD create problems in the universe. I just don't believe that it's the one you are describing. Humans only survive by their wits, our VERY evolved minds are what have kept us alive for, not just the last hundred years, but for the last several thousand years. I agree to some extent that we propagate the weak, however, many of the weak bodies are the strongest minds which have taught, and will continue to teach us invaluable lessons which perpetuate our survival (or extinction in some cases). There are also many weak minded who protect us, and our invaluable resources, with their strength.

    Making the decisions about who and what gets protected is the most difficult part, obviously, but make no mistake; human beings are, and always have been a species that depends on it's society and civilization for survival. Where we have come, and where we are going present many problems, but the human race and every other species have always had problems - these problems are bound to change over time and with evolution. We are a race of mental and spiritual giants, and we have all of the problems that come with that. As a race we are evolving, and the only solution to our growing problems is to work together. This is not something that can be "fixed". We are not devolving, we are continuing on our path to growth and enlightenment, but with greater rewards come greater challenges.

    To be honest, the final sentence from the quote above frightens me (not trying to make accusations here... ); but "We can fix this, but only by fixing the genetic code, not to some ideal human, but rather to one who is self suffiecient once the amenities of society have been stripped away." is pretty much a statement of selective genocide, basing the selection on choices of specific genetic qualities, instead of genetic ethnicity. WTF? Perhaps you meant it in a different way?

    Anyway, I make these statements as person who has survived for months at a time by myself in the wild, and also survived for months at a time with others in one of the largest, most technologically advanced North American cities, and I for one, can attest to the fact that our survival and our evolution is not based on genetic code. It is based on the things we teach ourselves, and the things we teach each other. It is based on the way we CHOOSE to survive, and CHOOSE to evolve. WE are responsible for the things we teach each other, and our children. WE are responsible for the way we treat each other, and our children. WE are reponsible for our own evolution and survival. Not genetic code. IMHO. Peace.

  3. Lounge   -   #33
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    Originally posted by ToraBoraDweller@16 May 2003 - 18:27
    @Rat Faced :you also still want to promote your anar*hy c00kb00k?

    (why did I remember that?)
    I have The An**chists Cookbook.

    It scares me.

    I only use it when someone REALLY upsets me




    Now I havent mentioned that in months.........someones been reading very old posts

    An It Harm None, Do What You Will

  4. Lounge   -   #34
    Originally posted by Rat Faced@16 May 2003 - 18:50
    But isnt he Omni-everything?

    That implies he makes mistakes.......


    This is now due in the lounge, where we can debate it with our beers
    Of course he makes mistakes, remember that little "incident" when he destroyed everyone on the planet but Noah and his homies.

    Kind of hit the reset button there!


    Now one thing about Jesus that I want some input on.


    I attended this very Christain summer camp (Kanakuk in Branson, MO) and they kept telling me that "For God so loved the world, he gave his only Son to die for our sins". I must; therefore, accept Jesus Christ as my Lord and Savior in order to be admitted to Heavan.

    Here's my issue, so what?

    So Christ is God embodied in human form (or imbibed with his Spirit- which left him on the cross- "Why hast thou forsaken me?")
    His human form is killed, but only after delivering Gods message (Christianity still going strong).

    Now here is the question?

    Where did Jesus go when he died?

    If he returned to Heavan with God, then God made no sacrifice, period. What is a mortal life, when Jesus is given eternity in Heavan.

    So, in order to make this a "sacrifice" on God's part, Jesus is accepting the responsibility for all our sins, and must; therefore, be in Hell, taking our punishment for us. Now that would be a sacrifice.

    How many Christians think that Jesus is in Hell?
    Aren't we in the trust tree, thingey?

  5. Lounge   -   #35
    You are going from the assumption that Jesus is a manifestation of God :they are in other words the same person.(This belief is part of the so-called the holy trinity)
    Many christians hold also other beliefs ;that is to say : they are separate and unique persons.
    It boils down (again) on HOW you read your bible.

    (Scares me being in such a camp ,does make me think a little of a brainwashing technique)

  6. Lounge   -   #36
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    You can prove anything in the Bible, thats why there are so many different 'churches'.

    Its all open to interpretation.



    I think that we're all gonna be Latter Day Saints anyway, as i hear they baptise us into that church after our deaths, using members as 'stand ins' for our physical bodies.

    An It Harm None, Do What You Will

  7. Lounge   -   #37
    Originally posted by tianup@16 May 2003 - 19:52


    To be honest, the final sentence from the quote above frightens me (not trying to make accusations here... ); but "We can fix this, but only by fixing the genetic code, not to some ideal human, but rather to one who is self suffiecient once the amenities of society have been stripped away." is pretty much a statement of selective genocide, basing the selection on choices of specific genetic qualities, instead of genetic ethnicity.  WTF?  Perhaps you meant it in a different way?

    Anyway, I make these statements as person who has survived for months at a time by myself in the wild, and also survived for months at a time with others in one of the largest, most technologically advanced North American cities, and I for one, can attest to the fact that our survival and our evolution is not based on genetic code.  It is based on the things we teach ourselves, and the things we teach each other.  It is based on the way we CHOOSE to survive, and CHOOSE to evolve.  WE are responsible for the things we teach each other, and our children.  WE are responsible for the way we treat each other, and our children.  WE are reponsible for our own evolution and survival.  Not genetic code.  IMHO.  Peace.
    Ok, this thread has become unraveled due to the variable ways in which the word "Chaos" is intended.

    Chaos to me means randomness, it does not imply good nor evil

    In answering NE1, I was using his definition in that post, which was, "everyman for himself".

    So I was discussing how the creation of societies and its protective umbrella helps to protect the individual from this situation.



    As time is short for me now, let me address the remaining quote.

    I specifically stated that the goal was not to create a master race, but a race capable of surviving if the amenities of society were stripped.

    Best examples are Diabetes and Cystic Fibrosis. In the past all these people died, keeping the prevalence in the gene pool low. Now many survive to reproduce, propaging this genetic weakness and increasing it's prevalence in the gene pool.

    You create a situation where insulin (for diabetics) is taken away, they all die. So I claimed that the only way to fix this is to find and correct the genetic code, which makes these people susceptable to the disease. So when a disaster strikes, no worries, as all the diabetics have ben genetically fixed.

    Pick your favorite lethal disease and add it to the list.


    Now as for evolution, what matters? All that matters is that you reproduce. Who reproduces more, the intelligent people with good jobs and the means to support their offspring, or those who are uneducated and living on welfare.

    So in this sense, those least able to provide for their young and propagate the species are doing the majority of the reproduction. Devolution. This type of devolution is held in check by all those poor inner city kids shooting each other.

    So in conclusion, we are devolving by propaging lethal gene traits, and by letting those lest able to support their young, doing the majority of the reproduction.


    Remember, evolution has no "purpose", but rather it is an adaptation to a changing environment.
    Aren't we in the trust tree, thingey?

  8. Lounge   -   #38
    Originally posted by ToraBoraDweller@16 May 2003 - 20:18
    You are going from the assumption that Jesus is a manifestation of God :they are in other words the same person.(This belief is part of the so-called the holy trinity)
    Many christians hold also other beliefs ;that is to say : they are separate and unique persons.
    It boils down (again) on HOW you read your bible.

    (Scares me being in such a camp ,does make me think a little of a brainwashing technique)
    Actually, I am not going on the assumption at all.

    The post is about "sacrifice"

    It seems obvious that Jesus and God are not one in the same. Jesus on the cross said, "Why hast thou forsaken me?". Indicating that the spirit of God had left his body, leaving him an average mortal.

    But, it really doesn't matter the precise relationship between the two.

    Christianity heavily relies on this great "sacrifice" to demonstrate Gods love for us, I was just asking, "Where's the sacrifice, is Jesus in Hell, or something?"


    PS: This is a response to a prior post, you need to read my prior post to understand this on. Meaning, don't respond to this post in isolation.
    Aren't we in the trust tree, thingey?

  9. Lounge   -   #39
    I have The An**chists Cookbook.
    I knew you were a religious man!
    The partaking of human flesh is practized by animists.
    (believed by many to be very primitive ppl )

    (I remembered that book because someone mentioned it recently in a thread about the F*B.I,
    I can't even find my own old posts more than 10 ago)

  10. Lounge   -   #40
    Originally posted by hobbes@16 May 2003 - 20:38

    Ok, this thread has become unraveled due to the variable ways in which the word "Chaos" is intended.

    Chaos to me means randomness, it does not imply good nor evil

    In answering NE1, I was using his definition in that post, which was, "everyman for himself".

    So I was discussing how the creation of societies and its protective umbrella helps to protect the individual from this situation.



    As time is short for me now, let me address the remaining quote.

    I specifically stated that the goal was not to create a master race, but a race capable of surviving if the amenities of society were stripped.

    Best examples are Diabetes and Cystic Fibrosis.  In the past all these people died, keeping the prevalence in the gene pool low.  Now many survive to reproduce, propaging this genetic weakness and increasing it's prevalence in the gene pool.

    You create a situation where insulin (for diabetics) is taken away, they all die.  So I claimed that the only way to fix this is to find and correct the genetic code, which makes these people susceptable to the disease.  So when a disaster strikes, no worries, as all the diabetics have ben genetically fixed. 

    Pick your favorite lethal disease and add it to the list.


    Now as for evolution, what matters?  All that matters is that you reproduce.  Who reproduces more, the intelligent people with good jobs and the means to support their offspring, or those who are uneducated and living on welfare.

    So in this sense, those least able to provide for their young and propagate the species are doing the majority of the reproduction.  Devolution.  This type of devolution is held in check by all those poor inner city kids shooting each other.

    So in conclusion, we are devolving by propaging lethal gene traits, and by letting those lest able to support their young, doing the majority of the reproduction.


    Remember, evolution has no "purpose", but rather it is an adaptation to a changing environment.
    I think perhaps the thread has become unravelled due to some other factors as well.....but, anyway, Chaos IS randomness, confusion, etc. The points I was talking about pertain to exactly that:

    Interesting points. In terms of chaos and order, which you present in a kind of "good vs. evil" relationship, I see it the other way. Chaos and Order are the two required opposites, or the Yin and Yang of energy forces in our universe, and our bodies and spirituality. Without one, the other cannot exist, and they both have necessary qualities for ALL life to exist, and ALL energy (which IS all life) to flow. These are just two more names for the polarities that have been noted by the wise and spiritual for millenia.

    I do agree with many of your points about the cut-and-dry science of genetics and evolution (adaptation), however, the thing we often fail to take into consideration is that our environment is doing the same thing we are. If you remove the genetic defects that nature has programmed due to over-population, toxification, poor nutrition, etc., nature, as it has shown us MANY times, will simply create a more powerful genetic weakness, or virus, or natural disaster for that matter, to take care of the imbalance. This is what we were discussing before. I don't know if I agree that it is a form of natural population control

    So in this sense, those least able to provide for their young and propagate the species are doing the majority of the reproduction.  Devolution.  This type of devolution is held in check by all those poor inner city kids shooting each other.
    but I do agree that it is at least a symptom. If you can see this corelation, then you must be able to see what happens when medical science solves these "genetic defects". We receive "evolved" defects. It's the same with viruses (the ones nature created), and other natural "predators".

    So, I agree with you in theory. But I believe the only way to achieve this balance is to earn it through creating a healthy environment which will cause this adaptation naturally. Fixing genetic code is short term and will cause more problems in the long run than we've even dreamed of. As much as it would be nice to believe, you cannot fool nature.

    I don't say this out of religious or any type of spiritual belief like "you can't mess with nature, man...", but because I've been researching, discussing, and watching the patterns of this "science" since I was old enough to comprehend it, as my family, my friends and myself have, and will always be affected by it, and this is what I see every day in my personal life, in the local news, and on a global scale. I wish it was as easy as fixing genetic code.

    Just MHO.

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