Is Bush the worse US President ever?

[vidcc]

I really hate to dignify this thread with a legitimate response, but I guess I'll have to give vidcc something to comment on so he doesn't praise this as the Best Thread Ever.

Oh Ok

Although..... even though I think jnr. is the worst president in modern times I wouldn't say this is the best thread ever.

There have been plenty of successes during the Bush administration:

Tax cuts.
No child left behind
Prescription drug plan
Housing policies that have obviously expanded home ownership.

Tax cuts that led to a huge increase in the deficit, increased borrowing form countries like China amongst other borrowing. Meanwhile spending increases with not one spending veto. ( republican controlled spending). We still hear the "democrats tax and spend" mantra when in fact the republicans are the big spenders...."borrow, spend and let future generations pick up the tab".


Todays children all have one and all are maxed out.

I'm all for decreased taxation but I believe that spending should be under control to justify the cut before the cut is made. Any policy that leaves us beholden to other nations is not good.

No child left behind Sounds like a good idea, but not funded. Schools are ending up "teaching to the test". This administration is good at giving plans names that would make it hard to object to. example "clear skies initiative" who could object to clear skies?... And then if it is shown a 1% improvement in air quality..."see we have clearer skies"...... only problem is that the program actually loosened the standards already in place which could have achieved a 4% improvement (the improvement figures are examples for demonstration only here, not actual figures).

Prescription drug plan. another "great name" but a badly put together plan. Complex and can end up costing the recipient more once their coverage level has been reached. A golden egg given to the drug companies who charge the government more than they charge private insurance companies. It explicitly bans government from negotiating price so ends up costing the tax payer more. (corporate welfare)

Housing policies that have obviously expanded home ownership.

I'm not going to give a real plus or minus on this one because I think housing is a free flowing thing and all the government has to do is not hinder it. But just showing an increase doesn't mean that (especially the less well off ) are doing well. Those in the rental market that cannot get a mortgage are struggling.
24 % increase in second homes. (tax cuts for the top earners had to go somewhere)
Home ownership has been on the increase (it has ups and downs) for a long time. However it's an easy claim to phrase it as "more people own their homes now that ever before". We have more people so we need more homes.

Any appraisal of Bush's record must consider that he took over in difficult times.

I think he was left with a good deal compared to what many other presidents inherited.
Perhaps you could go over to the Jimmy carter thread and make the same point.

By most measures, the economy is doing well: Inflation, interest rates, and unemployment are low, the stock market is higher than it's ever been and still climbing, economic growth is right with it also.

Personal debt up, Medical Insurance increases way way over the inflation rates, number of people without health insurance up. Spending power in real terms down. middle income hourly wages down in real terms. Hours worked increased.

Bush has had the uneven trip of guiding the USA through the post 9/11 era, and the country has not seen an attack in over five years, though there have been many attempts.

I know republicans like to deny it happened but, Anthrax. Also policy has measurably increased terrorism worldwide.

[Skiz]

This is so far out it's almost funny: from the highest surplus ever when he took over, to the highest deficit in history.

Name one president who left office with a lower deficit than when he begun.

[j2k4]

Blah, blah, blah ...

If you can't answer the question, attack the messenger.

I take it by your obfuscation that you have no defence of Bush worth hearing, and that you believe him to be the second worse US President in history after Carter.

Now, that's an empty response.

Where Bush would actually fall in that pecking order is to subject to such debate as his dithering on immigration and his woeful fear the veto pen.

That debate has yet to occur, however.

My point about Carter stands.

BTW, (again)-I cannot be sure of Ian's intent, but you've gotten the spelling wrong in the thread heading as well.

[100%]

I thought humans where capable of progress, just like evolution. Not regression.

[j2k4]

...if OPEC decided to peg oil to the Euro, as some member states have recommended, the dollar would collapse completely...

Funny, that.

If OPEC saw the Euro as the best bet, they'd go that way in a heartbeat, but then there's the simple matter of European disunity, isn't there?

It's a simple matter to rattle one's economic sabre, but it only works if "one" is truly "one".

Get back to us on that, will you?

In the meantime, OPEC has to trust something, and that's the U.S. dollar.

[Busyman™]

This is so far out it's almost funny: from the highest surplus ever when he took over, to the highest deficit in history.

Name one president who left office with a lower deficit than when he begun.

Bill Clinton and JFK to start. What's your point?

If I'm not mistaken, it was lowest when Reagan took office but we all know what happened to the deficit after that.

[Busyman™]

...if OPEC decided to peg oil to the Euro, as some member states have recommended, the dollar would collapse completely...

Funny, that.

If OPEC saw the Euro as the best bet, they'd go that way in a heartbeat, but then there's the simple matter of European disunity, isn't there?

It's a simple matter to rattle one's economic sabre, but it only works if "one" is truly "one".

Get back to us on that, will you?

In the meantime, OPEC has to trust something, and that's the U.S. dollar.

True if Europe was unified, it's economic might would rival the US easily.

The European Constitution went belly up.

[vidcc]

above shows actual money, but then $1 today doesn't have the same spending power as $1 of years past so below is debt along with gross domestic product

[Busyman™]

I was waiting for that (was waiting for Skizo though).

I asked what's his point cuz hell movies also make more money than they did 20 years ago. Is this only cuz more people go to the theater?

So tell me, how does the graph relate to the GDP?

Also notice the biggest surges in the national debt on your graph. Notice the biggest surge of them all.

[Skiz]

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