Impeach Bush

[j2k4]

Originally posted by clocker@15 July 2003 - 23:35
Republicans prefer to simply lie.

No, they do not "simply lie".

They have elevated it to an art form.

[Rat Faced]

Here I will quote my own post from a while back, as I don't want to go through this again Dubya WON the election on the pure vote count-perhaps you, like many others who are genetically anti-Bush, aren't aware that the 'count' DID go on, but with no legal bearing. It was completed (and informally "certified") by a team of Liberal/ Democrat operatives about 8 months after the fact; they concluded (albeit on page "20" in most newspapers; I read it in probably 5 big-city papers, also in USA Today), that Bush even extended his lead, and after counting the absentee/military vote, extended his lead even further. This is FACT. As far as having a laugh, feel free-the joke is on you.

Correct me if im wrong, but wasnt there also the small matter of thousands of people from "minorities" that somehow got missed off the electrol role (in Florida) and so couldnt vote?

And arent these people mostly Democrat voters?

I also remember, at the back of my mind, something to do with the ballot paper being designed so that some of the Democrats actually voted for someone else and vise versa...(although obviously as the someone else was a minor Party this wouldnt cancel itself out)

Maybe we should ask RPerry to come into this room and ask for a local perspective from Florida....



Irrespective of the "facts", and everyone will have different opinions...Bush was "elected" BEFORE the vote had been counted, by a Republican Court....and yes we did have a good laugh at the farce over there.

In any other democracy in the world, the Florida election would have been re-run...pure and simple, because it LOOKED fixed.

The last thing a Democratic country that espouts Freedom etc wants is an election that is not clearly fair....it undermines the whole system, as can be seen re: comments about putting a Democracy in Iraq a few months ago..USA, in the eyes of many in the world ISNT a Democracy at the moment.

[RPerry]

As per request from Rat_Faced, I will make a quick stop here, although its not one of my favorite places to go, simply because of the bitter hatred of each others countries thats seems to float in these topics. SO before beggining anything, let me state this, I belong to the first generation of my family, that did not serve during a conflict. However, I did serve in the Navy for a short time, mistakes and bad choices changed my path. I have a love for all people, no matter from which country they are from, or what color their skin is. And, had I been active in the military, I surely would have fought, because it what my ancestors and alot of your ancestors did to preserve democracy as we know it.
There are alot of mistakes made by governments, some intentional, some not. To throw them back and forth at each other, just to "one -up" each other is pointless, we cannot go back and change any decision that was made. Nor should we shoot any of our fellow board memebers for them, to my knowledge, we have no heads of state present
Like alot of you I have my own beliefs. For begginers, I can't remember one conflict yet where several million Americans didn't want to get involved. In fact, World War II was one of them. Most American felt that it wasn't our war, sadly, December 7, 1941 changed that. For for quite some time, its been debated whether or not that attack could have been prevented. Maybe we'll never know. Here is what I do know. What in the hell were the aircraft carriers (the key to victory at that time) doing out at sea, without their escort battleships? see what consisted of a carrier battle group in the 1940's, and ask yourself the same question. Possibilty due to technology of the time, that the size of a battleship could be mistaken for a carrier? In my mind, what happened was what was supposed to happen, it enraged all americans, and unified them in their quest for revenge.
Do I think its possible that the government has lied to us about iraq having wmd's? it wouldn't be the first time I mean, we know who shot J.R. (Dallas) but we don't know who shot Kennedy? (also shot in Dallas, TX )
Reagardless of what kind of debate goes on here, not many will admit to changing their views.
As far as the Florida elections go, I agree whole -heartedly that they should have be re-run. My Father, told me the minute Jeb Bush ws elected governor, why he was there, simply to get his brother elected president. Funny, how it turned out, don't think my father envisioned anything like what happened. Regardless of whatever scandals came about, there was a bigger one involved. The decision to send a small cuban boy home with his father from Miami to Cuba, swung a notable democratic area (Miami, large cuban population) against the party. would the few hundreds of votes mattered then? who the hell knows.....
All I know is that nobody knows the reasons for everything, and we must all live our lives doing what we think is right. Do I think America and Britain should have invaded Iraq? you bet your ass that bastard should have been taken out in 1991. For whatever was found or not found, I still have to wonder why Iraqi soldiers carried gas masks. Why was America so sure they had them? who the hell you think gave then some of that shit? Do I think Bush Should be impeached? no, he did what he thought was right for America. Maybe one day we'll know exactly what that was.

[j2k4]

Rat-

Please excuse my slipshod use of the board's capability in replying:


Correct me if im wrong, but wasnt there also the small matter of thousands of people from "minorities" that somehow got missed off the electrol role (in Florida) and so couldnt vote?

In all instances I am aware of, these were minorities who were bussed to the polling places after the polls had officially closed strictly for the purpose of saying to any official media, "They won't let me vote!" It was proven that most of them had already voted and then, having nothing better to do, volunteered to be "dupes for Dems" on exchange for food and refreshment. Some even appeared on camera at different times and different polling places.

And arent these people mostly Democrat voters?

I also remember, at the back of my mind, something to do with the ballot paper being designed so that some of the Democrats actually voted for someone else and vise versa...(although obviously as the someone else was a minor Party this wouldnt cancel itself out)

This was a story concocted by the excuse-makers; Rat, if you had one of these ballots in your hands, you'd know what I mean.

We also had a more "normal" incident of voting fraud: The national media, as you know, loves to jump the gun with their "projected" winners.
If a Bush voter in the Florida panhandle (different time zone) hears "Gore" projected as the winner an hour before his polling place closes, he is less likely to make the effort to cast his vote, you see? This, however, is passed over as being un-news-worthy.

The last thing a Democratic country that espouts Freedom etc wants is an election that is not clearly fair....it undermines the whole system, as can be seen re: comments about putting a Democracy in Iraq a few months ago..USA, in the eyes of many in the world ISNT a Democracy at the moment.

I agree, but the Dems didn't want to hash this one out again, either, believe me.

Edit: spelling-j2

[ToraBoraDweller]

You kept your promise j2k4
But I'm not finished yet:

I do not endorse the democratic party or whatever party.
.

Maybe not, but your views, and theirs, are perfectly aligned

Not perfectly :in many aspects I find the democrats just as guilty as the republicans and while they had their majority and a president they did not live up to their promises espescially in the areas of electoral and governmental reform,main focus was (as always and mainly) on economy.

It's a fact that Bush has major interests in the oil-industry and is involved
through lobbyists in the weaponindustry (I think the name was :the Carlyle group)
as was and still is his father.

Try to find a politician without connections to big business; lobbyists likewise-there is no such thing as an "unlobbied" politician. Bush is unexceptional in this regard.

So true !! But thereby said it's not something to condone
as it will lead to corruption or in public view the appearance of corruption

The mere fact that a president with such powers of office makes his way to that office by very considerable support of lobbying-groups (campaignfunds) is very
worrying (that's why I used the term nepotism for 1 reason).

See above. I guess the charge of nepotism is to be expected, but I think for it to stick, you would have to somehow prove G.H.W. Bush wrangled the office of President for Dubya-if this were so, I think our liberal press would have sniffed it out.

By nepotism I actually meant his business-friends not his family :it had all the appearance that extensive promises were made to not only official lobbygroups but also other interestgroups (Carlyle).

The hangingpoint was the irregularities in the state of Florida ,governed by his brother (are they still searching for missing ballots and votingboxes ?)

You are mis-informed; there are no missing ballots or "voting boxes".

Considering what I said about the insurance-companies :I must correct myself : it was a Savings&Loan-bank ,exact name escapes me now but it was even called a ....something-gate.

This I will ignore on account of vagueness, it probably escapes you for good reason.

I'll concede these points to you as I'm not too familiar on the details (who is?)

Have to stress again that I'm not for any party : both disqualify and the system is to blame :financial interests on all levels plays too big a part (further limitation of campaignfunding would be a small start).

I agree, but these are generic problems inherent in the American election/campaign process, and are certainly not exclusive to Bush.

It's also worrying that the world is run by economists who probably all hold the same view (and had the same schooling) on 'free enterprise' and a 'global market'.

As they say, 'That's the way of the world'; neither is this problem attributable to Bush.

If a guy calls his country (over and over again) the leader of the 'FREE' world and if that same guy happens to lead that country :that makes him
very much so accountable.
The Third-world-countries see that 'free enterprise' works only one way and promissed opportunities pass them by.No it's not only attributable to Bush but may we please expect some more vision beyond local financially based politics and
recent poll-results ?

[j2k4]

ToraBoraDweller-

That post I find much more agreeable.

There are, without a doubt, things about Bush's administration that are burrs under my saddle, but to me, it's still miles beyond the previous one as to honesty (and I know I'll get heat for that).

I will be the first to acknowledge the problems inherent in our system, but I believe you'd have to be a student of the "game" to gauge the difficulties of straightening out the mess.

Things here are so incredibly fucked up, I couldn't begin to tell you; you'd really have to be here.

I'd better stop, before I get started....

[lynx]

Originally posted by j2k4@17 July 2003 - 05:18
I'd better stop, before I get started....

What ?
Changing the habit of a lifetime ? :-"

[chalkmongoose]

Hmmm, do I REALLY want Bush murdered? Why yes... In fact, let's cut his f'cking balls off and feed em to his drunk daughters for all I care. HE KILLED 3000 Americans by not bothering to act on intelligence reports that could have stopped September 11th. So F'ck you Bush... My friend's father died on 9/11, my father almost died, and I know quite a few more people whose lives were changed. I ain't saying Gore could've done a better job, but if he'd done the same asinine things Bush did, I'd want Gore dead also.
So yes, call me crazy, but lets string up Bush on a tree, and show him how REAL Americans act. Let's tar and feather him in the public square... I want his guts for garters...

[echidna]

Originally posted by chalkmongoose@21 July 2003 - 13:37
Hmmm, do I REALLY want Bush murdered? Why yes... In fact, let's cut his f'cking balls off and feed em to his drunk daughters for all I care. HE KILLED 3000 Americans by not bothering to act on intelligence reports that could have stopped September 11th. So F'ck you Bush... My friend's father died on 9/11, my father almost died, and I know quite a few more people whose lives were changed. I ain't saying Gore could've done a better job, but if he'd done the same asinine things Bush did, I'd want Gore dead also.
So yes, call me crazy, but lets string up Bush on a tree, and show him how REAL Americans act. Let's tar and feather him in the public square... I want his guts for garters...

Ahh, the land of the free and the home of the brave!
the greatest democracy on earth we're told
maybe these notions might serve to show why so many fear american liberation more than death
[please don't murder little bush it'll make him a martyr, just vote him out, then we can begin to forget]

[Neil__]

Originally posted by chalkmongoose@21 July 2003 - 04:37
Hmmm, do I REALLY want Bush murdered? Why yes... In fact, let's cut his f'cking balls off and feed em to his drunk daughters for all I care.

HE KILLED 3000 Americans by not bothering to act on intelligence reports that could have stopped September 11th. So F'ck you Bush... My friend's father died on 9/11, my father almost died, and I know quite a few more people whose lives were changed.

I ain't saying Gore could've done a better job, but if he'd done the same asinine things Bush did, I'd want Gore dead also.
So yes, call me crazy, but lets string up Bush on a tree, and show him how REAL Americans act. Let's tar and feather him in the public square... I want his guts for garters...

Is it possible that Bush deliberately let 911 happen so as to justify his War on terrorism"
He came out straight away with the attitude that he was going to save the world.

I know it's real conspiracy theory but how far do you think he would go. to become the new "messiah" our saviour the great and good Bush.

I've been watching him since he was elected and he did his best to provoke some sort of attack.

I just hope America see's through him and we can get back to respecting it again.


Neil