Extinction Of The Car Giants

[2nd gen noob]

before i posted this, i had a huge reply typed up about why i hate 4 wheel drive/suv's

however, it was far too long and i babbled on a lot

basically, this is my huge post condensed down to the actual point:

SUV's are terrible cars and cause many more deaths/serious accidents than they solve. in many collisions between suv's and normal cars, the suv will 'climb' over the normal car, thus seriously injuring/killing the occupants of the other car (in many crashes, the occupants of the car are actually decapitated).

why do people buy suv's?
to make them feel safer?
why do they need to feel safer?
because there's a lot of accidents, of course
but if there were no suv's on the road there would be a lot less deaths/serious injuries from car crashes

basically SUV's are terrble and should be taken off the road
most of the people who use them don't need them

[myfiles3000]

Originally posted by clocker@18 June 2003 - 19:23
I've been to the UK several times and the classic American hog just wouldn't be too practical.

this is an interesting difference between new and old world: european cities were built long before the car, new world cities during/after. totally different conception of transportation, which unfortunately has had, in my opinion, a terrible impact on urban planning/neighbourhood desing, etc.

I have this vague memory of reading somewhere that municipal planning and real estate development now is all about time as opposed to distance for the standard measure used -- iow, the physical distance between the school, and the church and the shopping mall is largely irrelevant, its the time it takes to drive there that counts. things are no longer 5 miles away, they're 7 minutes away, depending on traffic.

[J'Pol]

Originally posted by clocker@18 June 2003 - 19:23
I think that for the most part you are correct, JPaul.

I've been to the UK several times and the classic American hog just wouldn't be too practical.
Robbie Coltrane did a PBS special several years ago where he toured the US in a 50's(?) era Cadillac. At the end of the tour he had become so enamored of the vehicle that he bought it and imported it back to England.
The scenes of him billowing down your narrow tree shaded lanes in this huge, chromed American behemoth were hilarious.

I know you did it deliberately you bar steward but I am going to reply anyway.

Robbie Coltrane is Scottish, he imported it to Scotland. I have seen him driving several of his gas guzzlers around Glasgow.

If the new MOD sees you making this mistake, deliberate or otherwise, you will be in big trouble. It's one of the few things he gets hot and bothered about.

That and vegetarianism, drug abuse, long bows (sport only),hunting, sexism, wee mouse,racism, neo-fascism and the downfall of the once mighty Prussian Empire.

[clocker]

Originally posted by myfiles3000@18 June 2003 - 12:20


I just think its amazing that an industry as venerable, and enormous by sales volume, could be so sickly. And, while i'm reasonably sympathetic to labour, the polarization of union and management in the us auto industry is warning for all of what can happen. short-sighted, penny-wise kind approach.

By happy coincidence, just now, as I ate lunch, I read a tidbit re: unions v. Detroit.

Next month the UAW (United Auto Workers) will begin renegotiations with the Big Three.

The UAW vows not to accept any cuts to benefits/wages.

Unlike the typical rat, I believe that labor will insist on going down with a sinking ship.

[2nd gen noob]

Originally posted by myfiles3000@18 June 2003 - 19:20
its true, though, that SUVs are definitely safer for the people inside the SUV than your average mid-size breeder-mobile. and preserving the safety of your little brats is a HUGE motivating factor -- people will pay a lot of money to demonstrably lower the chances of auto injury. its the poor trendy singles and homosexuals driving around in minis that pay the price.

this is exactly my point

suv's may be safer for those inside, but for anyone else, they have no chance

if no-one drove suv's at all, the death/serious injury rate would be less

suv's are ludicrous and have no place on the roads

[myfiles3000]

Originally posted by 2nd gen noob@18 June 2003 - 19:38
suv's may be safer for those inside, but for anyone else, they have no chance

if no-one drove suv's at all, the death/serious injury rate would be less

suv's are ludicrous and have no place on the roads

yes. the difference is, you're comparing aggregate statistics with individual statistics concerning risk. just like the issue of handguns. believe me, if i had a family, and i could afford one, i'd probably buy an SUV, too. with airbags for pinky toes, and an on-star distress response system that could fire laser beams from orbitting satellites, just in case of a carjacking. i'd by my family an armoured personnel carrier if i could. its selfish, human.

[clocker]

Originally posted by myfiles3000@18 June 2003 - 12:20


its true, though, that SUVs are definitely safer for the people inside the SUV than your average mid-size breeder-mobile. and preserving the safety of your little brats is a HUGE motivating factor -- people will pay a lot of money to demonstrably lower the chances of auto injury. .

The above is a common perception that I find completely unsupported by fact.

SUV's certainly look like they should be safer, but do, in fact, exhibit poor handling and rollover tendencies. The average driver has less control than in a standard vehicle unless their first instinct is to simply ram another vehicle and let the chips fall where they may.

Furthermore, according to the Colorado Highway Patrol, SUV/4-wheel drive vehicles are more likely to get into single-vehicle accidents ( by far the most common) in bad weather due to a false sense of security. Most people are clueless to the fact that while 4 wheel drive may increase your likelyhood of starting to move on ice, it will do nothing when it comes to stopping.
In fact, the extra mass and typically high center of gravity make the problem worse.


I apologize for the formatting, myfiles. I know you hate it.
Will you still respect me in the morning?

[2nd gen noob]

Originally posted by myfiles3000+18 June 2003 - 19:49--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td>QUOTE (myfiles3000 @ 18 June 2003 - 19:49)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'> <!--QuoteBegin-2nd gen noob@18 June 2003 - 19:38
suv&#39;s may be safer for those inside, but for anyone else, they have no chance

if no-one drove suv&#39;s at all, the death/serious injury rate would be less

suv&#39;s are ludicrous and have no place on the roads

yes. the difference is, you&#39;re comparing aggregate statistics with individual statistics concerning risk. just like the issue of handguns. believe me, if i had a family, and i could afford one, i&#39;d probably buy an SUV, too. with airbags for pinky toes, and an on-star distress response system that could fire laser beams from orbitting satellites, just in case of a carjacking. i&#39;d by my family an armoured personnel carrier if i could. its selfish, human. [/b][/quote]
wouldn&#39;t it be even safer just to buy a tank and drive about in that?

the problem is that you are taking my point in a comical manner, however, it is a serious issue which needs to be dealt with

[2nd gen noob]

Originally posted by clocker+18 June 2003 - 20:01--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td>QUOTE (clocker @ 18 June 2003 - 20:01)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'> <!--QuoteBegin-myfiles3000@18 June 2003 - 12:20


its true, though, that SUVs are definitely safer for the people inside the SUV than your average mid-size breeder-mobile. and preserving the safety of your little brats is a HUGE motivating factor -- people will pay a lot of money to demonstrably lower the chances of auto injury. .

The above is a common perception that I find completely unsupported by fact.

SUV&#39;s certainly look like they should be safer, but do, in fact, exhibit poor handling and rollover tendencies. The average driver has less control than in a standard vehicle unless their first instinct is to simply ram another vehicle and let the chips fall where they may.

Furthermore, according to the Colorado Highway Patrol, SUV/4-wheel drive vehicles are more likely to get into single-vehicle accidents ( by far the most common) in bad weather due to a false sense of security. Most people are clueless to the fact that while 4 wheel drive may increase your likelyhood of starting to move on ice, it will do nothing when it comes to stopping.
In fact, the extra mass and typically high center of gravity make the problem worse.


I apologize for the formatting, myfiles. I know you hate it.
Will you still respect me in the morning? [/b][/quote]
very good point

[clocker]

Originally posted by JPaul+18 June 2003 - 12:29--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td>QUOTE (JPaul @ 18 June 2003 - 12:29)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'> <!--QuoteBegin-clocker@18 June 2003 - 19:23
I think that for the most part you are correct, JPaul.

I&#39;ve been to the UK several times and the classic American hog just wouldn&#39;t be too practical.
Robbie Coltrane did a PBS special several years ago where he toured the US in a 50&#39;s(?) era Cadillac. At the end of the tour he had become so enamored of the vehicle that he bought it and imported it back to England.
The scenes of him billowing down your narrow tree shaded lanes in this huge, chromed American behemoth were hilarious.

I know you did it deliberately you bar steward but I am going to reply anyway.

Robbie Coltrane is Scottish, he imported it to Scotland. I have seen him driving several of his gas guzzlers around Glasgow.

If the new MOD sees you making this mistake, deliberate or otherwise, you will be in big trouble. It&#39;s one of the few things he gets hot and bothered about.

That and vegetarianism, drug abuse, long bows (sport only),hunting, sexism, wee mouse,racism, neo-fascism and the downfall of the once mighty Prussian Empire. [/b][/quote]
Ooopsie.

No offence intended, JPaul.
I really had no idea he was Scottish.
Coltrane&#39;s performances in the Cracker mysteries are amongst my very favorite.
Right along with Helen Mirren in Prime Suspect.
You guys certainly have it all over us when it comes to quality TV.

BTW- what exactly is a "bar steward"? You seem to use it frequently and I haven&#39;t a clue what it means to you.