Abortion Views

[j2k4]

I am anti-abortion; I believe in self-control, but as I have an appreciation for human weakness (suffering from it myself), I'll leave that aside.

I think abortion should have been "shepherded" a bit more closely from the very moment the Supreme Court gave it sanction; it should never have become so easily available it could be shopped for, like a loaf of bread.

Having said that, I would be stricken over denying access to a victim of rape or incest.

I also have a problem with the fact the man (a vital part of the equation) loses any and all rights at the moment of conception.

Granting the burden of carrying and giving birth to a child cannot be minimized, why is the father legally "excised" from any decision-making?

He is legally estopped from even offering to raise the child; if the mother chooses to abort in order to avoid "stretchmarks", this trumps the father's interest.

Actually, he is legally precluded from even having knowledge of the pregnancy, should the mother so choose.

The legal "weighting" involved here is disturbing.

[ilw]

I think the basic idea is that of not recognising the foetus as being alive or an entity in its own right, therefore the mother is the only entity with human rights in the equation, as such knowledge of the medical status of her body or control of her body against her will is illegal.

[j2k4]

Originally posted by ilw@3 July 2003 - 07:12
I think the basic idea is that of not recognising the foetus as being alive or an entity in its own right, therefore the mother is the only entity with human rights in the equation, as such knowledge of the medical status of her body or control of her body against her will is illegal.

Just so-

It is one of the great, unfortunate stumbling blocks of our legal system, and could have been mitigated by a more far-sighted ruling initially.

[clocker]

Well j2,

After decades ( in the US) and centuries ( in the rest of the world ) where women had zero reproductive rights, if the shoe is now on the other foot I'd say "Turnabout is fair play".

[the_faceman]

The circumstances in which the future baby is conceived plays a large part in my views, as with many others, after someone is raped i think that abortion should always be an option for the female. Her life has already been turned upside down through the attack, and should she choose not to further her distress then she has every right too.

I think that if the mother's health is in danger then it should be an option, and the same goes if the child is going to be severely disabled (they can do tests for certain disabilities). I know families personally that have disabled children that are basically vegetables and are unaware of their existence to a large extent, and although the parents love their child dearly, it has also ruined their lives and their other children's to a lesser extent, because the disabled child needs 24 hour care, so the financial cost is tremendous, and the parents don't have enough time to share with the other kids. So essentially 4 lives are made worse to keep one child alive (who is in constant pain), and 14 probably doesn't have an awareness of themselves in the same way we do.

Always in the past i've always been very careful with my girlfriends, and taken all the usual precautions, but abstinence is the only 100% sure-fire method of avoiding pregnancy (and i'm not really into that idea...) so there is always a chance, albeit tiny, that my girlfriend could get pregnant. I'm at uni just now, but i'd leave the decision up to her is she would like to keep the baby, as i think it's something both parents have to agree on. If she wanted to keep the baby i'd try to figure out what's best financially for our new 'family', maybe our parents could help out til we both finished university, then we would have a better chance of getting decent jobs. If this couldn't be done then i would quit uni and get a job in a factory. It wouldn't pay very well, but if it needed to be done...

I'm sure i would love my child with all my heart, but i'd imagine i would always regret the fact that i became a father so young.

I have little sympathy for those that get themselves into a similar situation, but through not taking precautions and being careless, but i still feel that the parents have the right to decide whether they want to have their baby.

One of the reasons for this is you have to ask "what happens after the child is born?" do the parents keep the unwanted child and bring it up in a household not filled with love, instead replaced by bitterness? Does the father or mother leave and another single-parent family created? (that is not derogatory to single-parents, my dad died when i was young, and for many, many years, my mother brought both myself and my younger sister on her own, and did a damn good job and always did her best) there is of course a chance that although unwanted, the parents learn to love their child and everything works out ok. There is another option i can think of, that the child is put up for adoption. I'm sure thousands of children have a very happy life with their adoptive parents, and it's a great thing for those that can't have children of their own, but i'd still imagine that it'd be nicer for a child to be with their biological parents.

Like Clocker said in a previous reply, the anti-abortion brigade seem to have little concern about the child once it is born.

Life is surely the greatest gift of all, but when that life is likely to be an unhappy one, or it's going to ruin the lives of others, then i think abortion should be considered, but as early as possible. I've read that a baby becomes aware of it's surroundings well before scheduled birth, and that of course, makes it more like murder rather than terminating a life.

Basically i believe that only the parents have the right to decide what to do, and everyone else should realise that it has little or nothing to do with them. If my wife/girlfriend were pregnant, and someone said "you must keep the baby" or even "you must get rid of the baby" then i'd think to myself "what right have you to tell us what to do?" It's a personal and private decision, that has to take into account what kind of future ourselves and the child would have.

Maybe if anti-abortionists (i mean those who actively campaign against it) used their time to fight some real tragedies concerning children and people in general, some simple examples are abuse, forced prostitution and even clearing the millions of landmines that kill and maim adults and children the world over, then the world would truly be a better place.

[j2k4]

Originally posted by clocker@3 July 2003 - 07:20
Well j2,

After decades ( in the US) and centuries ( in the rest of the world ) where women had zero reproductive rights, if the shoe is now on the other foot I'd say "Turnabout is fair play".

"Turnabout is fair play", as a legal concept, has it's flaws.

It does, however, make an excellent tool for the seeking of revenge, as we now see.

[ilw]

Originally posted by the_faceman@3 July 2003 - 14:34
Maybe if anti-abortionists (i mean those who actively campaign against it) used their time to fight some real tragedies  EDITED like clearing the millions of landmines that kill and maim adults and children the world over, then the world would truly be a better place.

I like this idea, send all the anti abortion campaigners to cambodia and make them clear mines

[ilw]

About the man having no legal right to force a woman to continue bearing his child to term, i think thats completely justified as the alternative is much more open to abuse and much more of an infringement on someones rights. Can u imagine being forced to have a full pregnancy and go through the trauma of giving birth of a child that u don't want?

[jetje]

Well luckily i live in a country where it is legal. It will prevent a lot of ruined lives for kids and mothers... Cases like rape are mentioned but also for mentally disabled people that doesn't have the ability to raise kids, for stupid young kids that were just dumb, for junks that accidently get pregnant.... It will prevent lives in missery for the people involved and the unborn child.
Ofcourse there is a certain timeline... at some point it is to late for an abortion, that has to be regulated well.

Woman in our country believe they are boss in own belly... i think that's their right

i think what should happen is more freely spoken about sexuality, good sexual education and explanings about birthcontrol and anti-conception product.
Also condoms must become cheaper and easier available...!
Also the right for an abortion would help a lot of people that are searching for one to be able to get the right medical care in stead of going to an underground butcher that does it if you pay enough money...!

My lack of english prevnts me to write it a bit more clearly, to bad.....

[j2k4]

Originally posted by the_faceman@3 July 2003 - 07:34


Like Clocker said in a previous reply, the anti-abortion brigade seem to have little concern about the child once it is born.

the faceman-

Excellent post.

As regards the "anti-abortion brigade" (BTW-use of the term "brigade" is, to be PC, inflammatory), they are sometimes clumsy in their actions and rhetoric, but they realize that, no matter what the pro-abortion lot think, it is beyond the abilities of us mortals to "legislate" responsible teenage behavior, good parenting skills, fortunate circumstance, and a positive upbringing.

These can only be propagated by examples, of which we have precious few at the moment.

The media spend more time on the negative than the positive; look in your newspaper:

"Six drive-by killings in the financially-strapped minority neighborhood today!"

Does anybody EVER make it out alive and successful?

We shall never know.

Edit: Don't mean to presume this is an exclusively U.S. enigma by inclusion of this last.