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Thread: vipv2 goes p2l, lies, exploits, silences

  1. #1


    First things first, vipv2 has instituted a "donation" scheme. Of course this is not truly a donation, but a transaction. According to the donation page, "donors" will not get auto-banned, but will only be banned manually. They will also receive a longer time to fix their ratios.

    This is not the classic give 10 bucks get 10gb type of transaction, but it is essentially the same thing. We all know that "manually banned" means "never banned", and even if they are actually banned for low ratios, they are given extra time to fix it. According to a post by a staffer, they will be given an additional month. Who has to support and balance out that low ratio for that extra month? That's right, non paying users. So the vipv2 owner is essentially selling something that isn't his to sell, the non paying users bandwidth. Additionally, that extra month gives the "donors" an extra month to leech. So, this is quite obviously a P2L scheme.

    Of course nobody wants to make quick accusations, so I opened a thread and asked how much extra time will be given to donors, and if they will actually ban them manually or not. The thread was very quickly locked without a satisfactory answer by administrators. The subject is obviously very touchy to them, because a large number of people do not supoprt P2L trackers, and if their "disguised" system was highlighted as P2L, they obviously lose potential profits.

    I start a second thread:

    Whoa there mister administrator/moderator/whatever! Your thread locking finger is really trigger happy, isn't it? It seems P2L is a touchy subject..

    P2L = Pay to Leech. Removing ratio requirements for people who pay, allows them to leech. Therefore: pay, to leech.

    I don't think it's right for the tracker administrator to sell MY bandwidth, so I have deleted all my uploaded torrents, and I ask you to delete my account (where did delacct.php go?).

    I wish you the very best for the future..actually, I don't. I hope you get fucking owned like should be fun seeing a scenenotice about you guys

    bye bye!
    My account is then deleted/banned as I asked, but an administrator edits my post to say "im gay bye bye". Afraid of the truth, are we? You want a lexus like ersan, too, don't you? That's how a business operates: when it cannot reply with arguments, it silences.

    After a while someone replied and asked why they edited my post. He was banned almost immediately.

    This is quite obviously the behaviour of businessmen, not pirates. This is the behaviour of people that want to profit from others work (sceners rips, users bandwidth and HDD space), not the work of people who believe in the freedom of information and freedom of speech.

    A friend of mine had a very large number of vipv1 collections, lets see a conversation beween him and an administrator:

    <DrJ> hello
    <xOiNk> may i ?
    <DrJ> whats the problem?
    <xOiNk> ok here we go
    <xOiNk> i have MOST of the VIP1 collections
    <xOiNk> on a pretty fast ftp
    <xOiNk> and as vipv2 stays NON p2l
    <xOiNk> i am willing to help in anyway
    <xOiNk> i can FXP all of them to u
    <DrJ> v2 will never have any sort of donations for credit scheme
    <DrJ> can you make a list of the collections for me and it?
    <xOiNk> sure
    <xOiNk> nope
    <xOiNk> fuck pastebin
    <xOiNk> privacy ftw
    <xOiNk> screenshot
    <xOiNk> wait a sec
    After that he FXPd tens of gigabytes in tens of collections. (There are logs to prove that if anyone is a skeptic).

    Now, there are two alternatives here:
    1) The only P2L system the administrator can imagine is a credit scheme, in which case he is a useless idiot that shouldn't be running a torrent tracker.
    2) He is lying.

    I have a hard time believing that he is a complete moron (even though the large number of bugs on the site would indicate otherwise), so I must go with no 2. Lying and exploiting other peoples good will to help, simply in order to increase their profits. They probably kill kittens, too.

    If no 1 is the case, then I don't see why anyone would want an account on a website that is run by an idiot. Think about your security people!

    Even if you don't care about P2L, I urge you: don't support these people. They are not pirates, they are not file sharers. They are profiteering, lying gluttons, and they have no place in our file sharing world.

    PS: IRC logs courtesy of xOiNk

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  3. BitTorrent   -   #2
    slimdogp's Avatar Token White Kid BT Rep: +1
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    Giving a little incentive for donating isn't a bad thing, and I don't think they're profiteering. Sounds to me like you have some kind of personal problem with the staff there and you're trying to skew public opinion in your favor.

    Get a life

  4. BitTorrent   -   #3
    stoi's Avatar BCG Owner BT Rep: +45BT Rep +45BT Rep +45BT Rep +45BT Rep +45BT Rep +45BT Rep +45BT Rep +45BT Rep +45
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    i cant speak for other trackers, imo they are free to do what they wish to get donations in and i wont judge them for however they go about it.

    but we have just got rid off all "perks" i wouldnt realy call it p2l as it wasnt, but they did get perks. (we did bring the star back though)

    and i have to say donations have dropped through the floor, we have till the end of the month before i start to panic though.

    My point is though, lots and lots of trackers have incentives to get the members to donate, and tbh what i have read with this one, is tame compared to some others i have heard about.

    But im also not here to judge either, they can do what they want and as long as they meet the server costs, thats all that matters in the end. having no incentives is how trackers go under (we have 50,000 members and are struggling, just think about a tracker with a 10/th of our userbase)

  5. BitTorrent   -   #4
    i fell asleep half through that post, but it sounds like you have an issue because you where banned from a site that i have never heard of!

    plus i just noticed this was your first post.
    Last edited by seppypom; 02-03-2008 at 03:42 AM. Reason: Automerged Doublepost

  6. BitTorrent   -   #5
    1000possibleclaws's Avatar BT God BT Rep: +100BT Rep +100BT Rep +100BT Rep +100BT Rep +100BT Rep +100BT Rep +100BT Rep +100BT Rep +100BT Rep +100BT Rep +100BT Rep +100BT Rep +100BT Rep +100BT Rep +100BT Rep +100BT Rep +100BT Rep +100BT Rep +100BT Rep +100
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    your post hasn't made me change my good opinion of vipv2, as seppypom said, it sounds like you're just mad at a site that kicked you

  7. BitTorrent   -   #6
    dude relax.. how many forums are you going to post this on? vipv2 isn't even p2l.. and you would have known that from the explanation the sysop gave instead of ranting like an idiot and demanding to have you account disabled.

  8. BitTorrent   -   #7
    Quote Originally Posted by stoi View Post
    as long as they meet the server costs, thats all that matters in the end. having no incentives is how trackers go under (we have 50,000 members and are struggling, just think about a tracker with a 10/th of our userbase)
    I think where the money comes from is just as important. There are plenty of trackers that don't have incentives and manage just fine. Clearly the majority of your 50,000 members aren't putting in the effort and don't care about the site. Or, they are unaware of how serious the situation is.
    Imagine a torrent site as a human body.
    Staff provide the brain, members the soul, uploaders the muscle, all working together within the body itself.
    And yes, the body has to find a way to survive, and if the soul is strong enough to provide for itself, it will survive and prosper.
    On the other hand, if you have to start pimping your body then you're in a bad way, your soul is weak and you're liable to catch something...

  9. BitTorrent   -   #8
    Join Date
    Dec 2006
    So another site went P2L and you dont like it... In that case move on quietly. Trolling their forums and then moaning about it here wont achieve anything. The rights and wrongs of p2l have been debated for ages but at the end of the day, love it or hate it, it's here to stay.

  10. BitTorrent   -   #9
    I can't remember all the places that you have posted this shit on, and they all get closed down eventually, because noone wants to hear about some whining kid that doesn't like a particular site.

    The only reason I bother replying to this is because I find these forums a respectable place, and I won't have to read shit like this but a mature conversation.

    The fact that you disrespect everyone that does something for the site makes me sick, you obviously don't know how to run a torrent site, and I would be glad if you would, because then you would know nothing comes for free.

    Up until the point when ViPv2 started taking donations it was privately funded, servers and all the hardware that was to run the site was bought out of our own pockets because we have a loving community that enjoys what we do for them, we couldn't just leave them all behind.

    And you can't even imagine all the hours, days, weeks, all the long nights that was spent for debugging the TBDEV code (if you'd know how to program you would just shut the fuck up).

    We constantly work on the site, everyday, making new features for our users and improving the site, and it's all there for the grabs, even for people who don't appriciate our work, those who don't know how much energy and time and foremost, money, we put into this.

    The donations are to keep the site running, to pay the server bills, and since we love our strong community so much, why not give them something extra? And those who like our community can have a better chance of sticking around because of donations, not everyone has a 100mbit swedish phat-pipe they can seed with.

    There was never a P2L feature, there never will be, people who have a bad connection can donate to get an extra month's worth of getting their ratio fixed, it's not "another month of leech", their download and upload would still count the same.

    The benefits of donations were never set either, the "get an extra month" was an idéa we had but wasn't even set final when you started your flaming.

    I won't bother quoting your shit because it's a fucking waste to read.

  11. BitTorrent   -   #10
    Tokeman's Avatar Ron Paul 2012 BT Rep: +30BT Rep +30BT Rep +30BT Rep +30BT Rep +30BT Rep +30
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    Quote Originally Posted by T.S.O.L. View Post
    your post hasn't made me change my good opinion of vipv2, as seppypom said, it sounds like you're just mad at a site that kicked you
    First, he requested to be removed, so no vengeance there, did you even read the whole post?
    And yes, the tracker admins DO have the ability to do what they wish, but given the conversation recorded, some one offered to help a great deal with content, so long as a p2l system was not going to be considered. The admin agreed, and now here is the p2l system anyway. That is a lie, no matter what power the admins have over the site, lying is not one of them. He should have simply told that person that it may or may not be an option, instead of boldly lying.
    What a garbage site, glad I"m not a member there.

    I feel half the responders in this thread only read a few lines, due to a lot of p2l posts being posted lately. This one is different, and if you actually took the time to read the WHOLE thing you'd understand. You are just showing your ignorance by posting in a thread you have not read.
    Ron Paul: Hope for America

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