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Thread: I'm A Little Bored, So...

  1. #21
    Originally posted by Jay@14 August 2003 - 13:00
    Ever seen the Dodge Viper
    funnily enough there is a viper in the town next to mine
    it's very wide, very low and very red.

    the problem i have with the viper is that it has an 8.0 litre engine, however, only produces 400bhp (mark one)

    this is another "flaw" in american engine production. american engine builders are very good at building large engines, however, the specific outputs are terrible in comparison to most othher countries cars.

    there aren't any examples of american naturally aspirated angines producing over 60-70 bhp/litre, however, there are many europeans cars which do just that
    <span style='font-size:14pt;line-height:100%'>BLAH</span>

    <span style='font-size:14pt;line-height:100%'>Wayne Rooney - A thug and a thief</span>

  2. Lounge   -   #22
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    That may be because we don&#39;t use that rating. Ours are rated hp/ci and there are quite a few engines that easily pass the one horse power per cubic inch mark.
    The last real GTO engine produced, the ram air 5, was killed by the EPA because of noise concerns but at 455 ci, it put out over 650 hp. The Z28 302ci zapper is another one, 375 hp if I recall correctly. There are a lot more that can do it with just a little work to unrestrict the ports. My Pontiac 455, now 472, has made 520 hp without too much work at all. A few hours with a die grinder to open the valve bowls and ports was all that it really needed besides factory street parts.

  3. Lounge   -   #23
    ah...ok...i&#39;d never heard of that measurement before
    ok, so a Honda Civic Type-R (2003 UK) has a 2.0 litre naturally aspirated engine producing 197bhp

    therefore, its hp/ci rating is

    197/(2000/(2.54^3)) = ~1.6

    which is higher than ram air GTO (which of course, isn&#39;t truly naturally aspirated due to the ram air effect)

    plus remember we&#39;re talking about production cars here, with no aftermarket fettling

    i suppose the most used argument for american engine builders is the increased torque of a larger engine compared to a smaller one, however, surely an engine with a larger hp/ci rating would also have a higher specific torque?
    <span style='font-size:14pt;line-height:100%'>BLAH</span>

    <span style='font-size:14pt;line-height:100%'>Wayne Rooney - A thug and a thief</span>

  4. Lounge   -   #24
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    Well that&#39;s the most important part, torque. Since japanese engines have to spin at up to 10,000 rpm to produce the equivalent (hp/ci )horse power an american car produces at 5,000 rpm.
    Horse power is rated over a period of time. Torque is an instantaneous result.
    Torque is what you feel when you open the throttle on a muscle car. The reason you have to warn your passengers to avoid giving them whiplash.
    Horse power only matters at speed and over a determined time period. Torque is available at any time.
    With a larger engine, the torque will often surpass both the cubic inches, and the rated horse power. And in big bore, stroked engines, torque is more desireable than horse power.
    The GTO figures I gave you were not after market by the way. All performance parts for GTO are available as regular production options or standard production.

    And the Ram effect is negligable. The fact that cold air is ducted to the intake is a bigger bonus.

  5. Lounge   -   #25
    Originally posted by balamm@15 August 2003 - 01:56
    Well that&#39;s the most important part, torque.
    which brings me nicely onto my next car: the TVR Cerbera Red Rose
    this car is a british car available for £48,850, which has a 4.5 litre (274ci) naturally aspirated V8 engine.
    it produces 440bhp (at 7,250rpm) and 390lb ft of torque (at 5,500rpm)

    this means it has a hp/ci figure of ~1.6 and a lb ft/ci figure of ~1.4

    not too bad for a "small" engine

    you also have to take into account that the engine in this car is the first V8 engine TVR have built completely themselves, so better performance figures should be expected for future engines.

    the above is impressive enough, humbling all of the american cars mentioned above (in terms of power/ci), and a few supercars at the same time. however, possibly the most important figure is the weight of the car: just 1,100kg.
    this makes it good for 0-60mpg in 4.0 seconds exactly, 0-100 in 9.0 seconds exactly and the quarter mile in 12.1 seconds (at 119mph).
    all of the above on completely standard road tyres.

    also, the big brother to the Cerbera, the Speed 12, is a little bit more special than the Cerbera

    it&#39;s got a 7.7 litre (470ci) engine producing over 940bhp at 7200rpm. the reason i say "over" is that it actually broke the dyno being used to measure it (which was rated at 1000bhp). no torque figures have ever been given, due to the fact that it&#39;s not a production car. however, the only factor stopping it being a production car is that the boss of TVR has deemed it too fast to be used on public roads
    <span style='font-size:14pt;line-height:100%'>BLAH</span>

    <span style='font-size:14pt;line-height:100%'>Wayne Rooney - A thug and a thief</span>

  6. Lounge   -   #26
    found this page on the gto ram air 4

    it&#39;s got a 400ci engine, producing 370bhp (at 5,500rpm) and 445lb ft (at 3,400rpm)

    which yields

    hp/ci = ~0.93 and lb ft/ci = ~1.1
    <span style='font-size:14pt;line-height:100%'>BLAH</span>

    <span style='font-size:14pt;line-height:100%'>Wayne Rooney - A thug and a thief</span>

  7. Lounge   -   #27
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    Almost 450 ft lbs at 3400 rpm&#33;&#33; Smokin. Those are box stock figures by the way. Not many cars actually left the factory that way and most went through wangers or a shop in detroit that tweaked them for some rediculously low figure. Under &#036;100 for a cam and lifters, headers, carb overhaul, distributer curve kits, etc. Almost all factory part numbers as well.

    These sites will give you a truer picture of what they were like.
    My GTO has been featured in the first one.

    http://www.highperformancepontiac.com/

    http://www.pontiacpower.net/links1.html

  8. Lounge   -   #28
    Originally posted by balamm@15 August 2003 - 08:17
    Almost 450 ft lbs at 3400 rpm&#33;&#33; Smokin.
    it is pretty impressive for what is essentially a classic car

    p.s. where is your car on that site? i don&#39;t really know where to look on the site, and searching for 71 gto doesn&#39;t yield any results other than an estate
    <span style='font-size:14pt;line-height:100%'>BLAH</span>

    <span style='font-size:14pt;line-height:100%'>Wayne Rooney - A thug and a thief</span>

  9. Lounge   -   #29
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    You won&#39;t find it on the site, it was submitted in about 97-98 I think. Search doesn&#39;t go back that far and I think they were out of print for a year or two. I have a bunch of back issues in my storage room but I don&#39;t recall the exact issue. It was in starlight black with full judge dressing at that time though.

  10. Lounge   -   #30
    Originally posted by balamm@15 August 2003 - 08:32
    You won&#39;t find it on the site, it was submitted in about 97-98 I think. Search doesn&#39;t go back that far and I think they were out of print for a year or two. I have a bunch of back issues in my storage room but I don&#39;t recall the exact issue. It was in starlight black with full judge dressing at that time though.
    ah...ok

    it is a pretty nice looking car though, and from the spec looks pretty quick

    p.s. what kind of tyres are you using for the performance runs?
    also, have you got any other figures for it? e.g. 0-60mph, 0-100&#39;?
    <span style='font-size:14pt;line-height:100%'>BLAH</span>

    <span style='font-size:14pt;line-height:100%'>Wayne Rooney - A thug and a thief</span>

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