Obama...

[Rat Faced]

Ah, a bunch of quotes.

From where, please?

You know how to Google too, you could try and disprove any of 'em. Fact.

However your not alone.

In UK Local Authorities have used "Terrorism Legislation" to prosecute people for things so minor as Dogs Fouling public footpaths and people leaving their Bins so full as to be unable to close properly..

Someones bin is too small for the size of their family and the obvious corrective activity is not to give 'em a bigger bin, but to use legislation concocted to fight terrorism to take 'em to court.


Fact.

Enable people to abuse the rights of others, and they will. Or, put a way you'll understand.."The Road to Hell is paved with 'Good Intentions'".

[devilsadvocate]

"Getting there"?

When it's entirely within his power to 'be there' right out of the box, "getting there" ain't good enough, chum.

TBH those signatures were for his base, The Schip bill in particular would be his big thank you and pay back dig at the past blockage.


I'd still like to know just what it is you feel he hasn't been transparent about?

As I said he may have broken a promise and signed those bills he said were on his first thing to do list before the 5 days, but they were and still are online for viewing.

So tell me, please, what in any of those bills is not on display? What is he covering up?

[j2k4]

Ah, a bunch of quotes.

From where, please?

You know how to Google too, you could try and disprove any of 'em. Fact.

However your not alone.

In UK Local Authorities have used "Terrorism Legislation" to prosecute people for things so minor as Dogs Fouling public footpaths and people leaving their Bins so full as to be unable to close properly..

Someones bin is too small for the size of their family and the obvious corrective activity is not to give 'em a bigger bin, but to use legislation concocted to fight terrorism to take 'em to court.


Fact.

Enable people to abuse the rights of others, and they will. Or, put a way you'll understand.."The Road to Hell is paved with 'Good Intentions'".

You miss my point, which is that anyone can find "facts" or "testimony" on the web to support a viewpoint or opinion.

In the past, you've relied to a great extent on info/data you've gotten from U.N. sites, which I regard as horseshit, in the main - you can believe anything you like, but the provenance of web content is pretty iffy, to my mind, and I prefer to make a case in other ways for the most part.

Besides all that, you did Google the stuff, and you know where it came from - if you choose to present it as fact, why not provide proper linkage.

More on point, none of what you "quoted" bothers me terribly, from a mathematical standpoint, anyway.

With a population of over 300 million people, any numbers you regard as out-of-whack are bound to be impressive, but what has ever come of this tremendous haul of data?

Where are the millions of people wrongly sentenced to jail, etc.?

You may try to make a case over the issue of privacy, but that is a relative thing as well; I am struck currently by a section of the stimulus package that has to do with our (seemingly) impending national health care system - there will be a decision-making body (what this has to do with "stimulus" is a mystery to me, but there it is), tasked to determine whether a person of a certain age and state of health will be eligible for any of a myriad of expensive/life-saving medical procedures, based on actuarials.

So-

A faceless government entity will consult this person's medical history and issue a proclamation of worthiness...and no concerns about privacy are to be raised?

How does that fit with the left's heretofore unassailable and iron-clad defense of privacy issues vis a vis, oh, let's say...abortion?

I know I'm asking a lot of you here, but, gee whiz, Rat -whattya think?

[devilsadvocate]

Well that's just bullshit, and I might add not the first limbaugh twisted point you've used as "facts" in this thread.

[j2k4]

Well that's just bullshit, and I might add not the first limbaugh twisted point you've used as "facts" in this thread.

What's Limbaugh got to do with anything.

Find some "facts" of your own.

[Rat Faced]

Frankly j2, terrorists wanted to change our way of life.

Result: All these "anti-terrorism" laws that totally destroy what our countries stand for.

Ergo, The Terrorists win.

"Numbers" mean nothing. If only 1 innocent persons life was wrecked due to these laws, then we lost.

In a country of Millions, where it is more likely that you'll be run over than blown up..

I'd rather they spent the Billions on road safety and take the risk, thanks.

[Snee]

And if they didn't use national security as a motive to invade our privacy some more that'd be just super. And that goes for politicians here too

[j2k4]

Frankly j2, terrorists wanted to change our way of life.

Result: All these "anti-terrorism" laws that totally destroy what our countries stand for.

Ergo, The Terrorists win.

"Numbers" mean nothing. If only 1 innocent persons life was wrecked due to these laws, then we lost.

In a country of Millions, where it is more likely that you'll be run over than blown up..

I'd rather they spent the Billions on road safety and take the risk, thanks.

I don't agree that the terrorists won, and I don't agree that wrecking one person's life means we've lost.

Hell, our IRS wrecks more lives domestically than terrorists or the Patriot Act, but they're a government organ, and so escape the label.

I'm curious that you'd "take the risk" on terrorism, though.

Also, I'd like you to expand on the idea of terrorist "laws totally destroying" our country(s).

I am (and have been all of my adult life) dissatisfied with many things I have to live with in my country, but I am by no means whatsoever of the opinion it has been "totally destroyed".

The WTC, on the other hand...

[Rat Faced]

I didn't say they totally destroyed our countries.

I said they totally destroyed what our countries stood for. Big Difference.

Neither country can now take the moral highground, however its the smaller things such as Freedom of Expression and Free Association as well as the Big Brother mentality I'm looking at.

Hell, this country just turned away a Dutch Politician and 2 US Christian preachers.

I may not agree with anything that these cunts say, but until recently we could justifiably claim we'd fight for their right to express it.

We lost. Fact.

[j2k4]

I didn't say they totally destroyed our countries.

I said they totally destroyed what our countries stood for. Big Difference.

Neither country can now take the moral highground, however its the smaller things such as Freedom of Expression and Free Association as well as the Big Brother mentality I'm looking at.

Hell, this country just turned away a Dutch Politician and 2 US Christian preachers.

I may not agree with anything that these cunts say, but until recently we could justifiably claim we'd fight for their right to express it.

We lost. Fact.

I'll grant there are some things needing attention; your examples fit the bill.

We haven't lost, though; not yet.

We need something along the lines of a scratch start.