Attention FST (Staff and Users)

[IdolEyes787]

Some people don't know (or act as) simple English.

Simple English




Plain English






English muffin

[The_Martinator]

Lol, I guess I gotta brush up on that kinda stuff.

[deadalive1]

And you say we can't stop traders or cheaters, does that mean we should stop fighting them?

Do you honestly think a tracker would be better or even equally good if trading and cheating was allowed? Have you ever managed a tracker? Have you ever seen a "trader tree" and what kind of users it usually consists of? Do you know what would happen with the ratio economics and seed times if everyone cheated? Because I do, and I can assure you it would be the least successful tracker of all times. If you want trading and cheating to be allowed, use a public tracker and stay way from private trackers who got rules against stuff like that.

All in all the ENDLESS work tracker staff put down in catching cheaters, traders and sellers is for YOUR good so I REALLY don't understand why you are fighting this. The only users who do NOT benefit of this is... cheaters, traders and sellers.

Being staff myself this post is 100% accurate. Most traders (not all, after all there are always exceptions to any given rule) don't think about that at all. They are generally a selfish lot, the "me first" attitude tends to be the mantra of most of them.

A lot of them say it isn't about any sort of level, but look in the trade section and see for yourself, hell there's one now titled want lvl 8,9,10.

Why not instead of trading make some friends (the right way, not the trading way) and if you are a quality human being you wouldn't even have to ask for ANY trackers. Good people search out other good people and can see qualities that they think could add something to a particular tracker/forum/IRC..

It seems that people who trade can't/don't want to take the time and make friends (it's too slow for them apparently) and just want what they want when they want it (proving the "me first" selfish attitude).

Undoubtedly some trader will respond with some bullshit about how trading doesn't do any harm to any site and that they are well within their rights to trade. That is utter bullshit in and of itself. Just about EVERY single tracker out there has 1 hard and fast rule...NO ACCOUNT TRADING,SELLING..NO INVITE TRADING OR SELLING. <-- what part of that is not understandable?

Traders who say they use and respect trackers they have traded for conveniently forget they violated another trackers rule to get into the one they wanted. So apparently it is ok to violate 1 site to gain access to another (until of course something better comes along and then that site they wanted NOW becomes a means to gain entrance to somewhere else and therefore violate THAT trackers rules to get into another).

The fact that FST has a trade section and openly supports it (yes, you are supporting it by keeping it alive, whether you want to admit it or not) is a direct slap in the face to Admins, staffers and the quality users of any tracker.

[bilkenter]

And you say we can't stop traders or cheaters, does that mean we should stop fighting them?

Do you honestly think a tracker would be better or even equally good if trading and cheating was allowed? Have you ever managed a tracker? Have you ever seen a "trader tree" and what kind of users it usually consists of? Do you know what would happen with the ratio economics and seed times if everyone cheated? Because I do, and I can assure you it would be the least successful tracker of all times. If you want trading and cheating to be allowed, use a public tracker and stay way from private trackers who got rules against stuff like that.

All in all the ENDLESS work tracker staff put down in catching cheaters, traders and sellers is for YOUR good so I REALLY don't understand why you are fighting this. The only users who do NOT benefit of this is... cheaters, traders and sellers.

Being staff myself this post is 100% accurate. Most traders (not all, after all there are always exceptions to any given rule) don't think about that at all. They are generally a selfish lot, the "me first" attitude tends to be the mantra of most of them.

A lot of them say it isn't about any sort of level, but look in the trade section and see for yourself, hell there's one now titled want lvl 8,9,10.

Why not instead of trading make some friends (the right way, not the trading way) and if you are a quality human being you wouldn't even have to ask for ANY trackers. Good people search out other good people and can see qualities that they think could add something to a particular tracker/forum/IRC..

It seems that people who trade can't/don't want to take the time and make friends (it's too slow for them apparently) and just want what they want when they want it (proving the "me first" selfish attitude).

Undoubtedly some trader will respond with some bullshit about how trading doesn't do any harm to any site and that they are well within their rights to trade. That is utter bullshit in and of itself. Just about EVERY single tracker out there has 1 hard and fast rule...NO ACCOUNT TRADING,SELLING..NO INVITE TRADING OR SELLING. <-- what part of that is not understandable?

Traders who say they use and respect trackers they have traded for conveniently forget they violated another trackers rule to get into the one they wanted. So apparently it is ok to violate 1 site to gain access to another (until of course something better comes along and then that site they wanted NOW becomes a means to gain entrance to somewhere else and therefore violate THAT trackers rules to get into another).

The fact that FST has a trade section and openly supports it (yes, you are supporting it by keeping it alive, whether you want to admit it or not) is a direct slap in the face to Admins, staffers and the quality users of any tracker.

THANK YOU hearing that meant a lot, someone who actually understood us! for the other parts, just have one thing to say, if they were to come to a staff and say, hey my friend, Lets take into account a metal music specialized site,

i am in luv with metal music that your site can provide, My favourite bands are those, and i have these files at my disposal et cetera, i am really interested in getting to know metal music luvers and share what i have with them. You dont have to invite me now or anything, but i would really luv to be in your site, and i think i can contribute it in my own war, may be active on irc, post some of my own staff, try to be a good member as much as i can be. You dont have to get me in now, just get to know me my(as an example) music style et cetera, if you think i am worth having as a member, then please consider my application to join the site, i am willing to be in that site.

now i havent written quite a nice presentation i know it, imagine that someone with interest in metal music pmed a metal music staff about it. Would he give him an invite?BTW i am not saying he has to, all i am saying is that there is no such a place for the people with same interests to talk and invite each other especially for a dedicated tracker, if that is the case, where do you expect them to get it? friends? Not everyone is as demanding as others. One might not have the courage to ask for an invite from someone because that would be seen as a friendship based on invite. Or one might not like to post requests because some others might ridicule them for what they requested.Anyway quite a complex issue.

sorry not a very good post... but still hopefully you got the main idea, thank you for the previous words really. It meant a lot.

[TrueBusiness]

First of all, I want to say The Flying Cow's assessment of the Cold War is correct. There was of course a Communist threat, and the Rosenbergs and the Venona files clearly proved that. I took an overly simplistic view (as you said) of this, as no one is really interested in a history lesson and to exemplify one point. What I aimed to do was mention the lack of communication, which you must admit, was a major issue in this. You are correct though; it's a more complicated issue and linking this is bittorrent was rather a bad move. Truman was a very brusque character, and had FDR been President (who was on friendly terms with Stalin, mind you), perhaps much of this could have been avoided.

Regarding the majority of the posts in this thread, I am NOT scapegoating FST. I am, however, wondering about some of the things that make FST what it is. T.S.O.L. mentioned that communication will not help anymore. Sure, talking to tracker staff is one thing, but providing the actions behind it is another.

It is an obvious reason, but the reason FST is a scapegoat for most of these matters is the trader forum. I, of course, am biased for those who wish to remove it. I do not understand the mentality of traders because 1) it's actually harder to get traders and 2) they DO breach site security, and as sexton noted, have pretty bad invitees.

@bilkenter, the point isn't about free speech. I am all for that. I mentioned in my original post that instead of having a trading section, members could guide these traders along instead of bashing them. I understand what you mean bilkenter. There is a sudden urge to join sites, and trading just seems the quickest way to do it. Is getting banned eventually really worth it though? It's harder to get into trackers by trading than by actually progressing.

@Albo Da Kid. You say that I give this too much importance. From the posts I have seen you made, I can safely say that YOU are pretty much entrenched in the drama that this forum provides. I KNOW FST staff are intelligent. It is obvious from the posts that they make. I am not pointing fingers at them saying they are doing everything wrong. I am just wondering about their motives in keeping some of the forums that this contains.

FST is not completely at fault. Tracker staff have seemingly gone too far in some cases in protecting their sites, some situations I am well aware of. As Artemis said, the WTAW and trader forums bring much attention to trackers who just don't want it, and in turn, brings in cheaters and traders who are not really good characters. I know that FST has had a notorious stance among trackers as being extremely defiant and taking a hard stance in keeping reviews up, etc. From a thread I have seen, Bittorrent has now transcended the simple Internet identity. People are at risk of their personal identity. This, in my opinion, is getting extremely out of hand for something that is already not particularly safe doing already. For the reviews: sure, free speech, but again, I have never understood revealing sites that clearly are risking themselves from the very beginning for the enjoyment of others.

[bilkenter]

First of all, I want to say The Flying Cow's assessment of the Cold War is correct. There was of course a Communist threat, and the Rosenbergs and the Venona files clearly proved that. I took an overly simplistic view (as you said) of this, as no one is really interested in a history lesson and to exemplify one point. What I aimed to do was mention the lack of communication, which you must admit, was a major issue in this. You are correct though; it's a more complicated issue and linking this is bittorrent was rather a bad move. Truman was a very brusque character, and had FDR been President (who was on friendly terms with Stalin, mind you), perhaps much of this could have been avoided.

Regarding the majority of the posts in this thread, I am NOT scapegoating FST. I am, however, wondering about some of the things that make FST what it is. T.S.O.L. mentioned that communication will not help anymore. Sure, talking to tracker staff is one thing, but providing the actions behind it is another.

It is an obvious reason, but the reason FST is a scapegoat for most of these matters is the trader forum. I, of course, am biased for those who wish to remove it. I do not understand the mentality of traders because 1) it's actually harder to get traders and 2) they DO breach site security, and as sexton noted, have pretty bad invitees.

@bilkenter, the point isn't about free speech. I am all for that. I mentioned in my original post that instead of having a trading section, members could guide these traders along instead of bashing them. I understand what you mean bilkenter. There is a sudden urge to join sites, and trading just seems the quickest way to do it. Is getting banned eventually really worth it though? It's harder to get into trackers by trading than by actually progressing.

@Albo Da Kid. You say that I give this too much importance. From the posts I have seen you made, I can safely say that YOU are pretty much entrenched in the drama that this forum provides. I KNOW FST staff are intelligent. It is obvious from the posts that they make. I am not pointing fingers at them saying they are doing everything wrong. I am just wondering about their motives in keeping some of the forums that this contains.

FST is not completely at fault. Tracker staff have seemingly gone too far in some cases in protecting their sites, some situations I am well aware of. As Artemis said, the WTAW and trader forums bring much attention to trackers who just don't want it, and in turn, brings in cheaters and traders who are not really good characters. I know that FST has had a notorious stance among trackers as being extremely defiant and taking a hard stance in keeping reviews up, etc. From a thread I have seen, Bittorrent has now transcended the simple Internet identity. People are at risk of their personal identity. This, in my opinion, is getting extremely out of hand for something that is already not particularly safe doing already. For the reviews: sure, free speech, but again, I have never understood revealing sites that clearly are risking themselves from the very beginning for the enjoyment of others.

Honestly, if i knew that some staff are willing to listen those traders and try to get to know them and not generalize the fact that all traders are bad selfish and a security breach bla bla, i would definitely try to help them keep their site secure. I would encourage my trader friends to give up what they were doing and ask what they need really. This is why i am saying, dont ban them, try reasoning with them. Honestly, i do it for some trackers like bcg(banned) scc(banned) revtt tdc , i dont want to see any traders or someone that is detrimental to the site either because that would be like the cutting the branch that you are sitting on. But not all traders are the same. I luv the staff there, they are mature really, stoi is open to reason like scc or others. This is the reason why i dont wanna see anyone harmful to the site no more than you do. But Trading shouldnt be a sin, the sin must be what they do afterwards (only leeching?, causing site problems et cetera)

[sez]

First of all the war on terror is in pakistan,iraq has always been the wrong frontier...i'll explain.there are sites that are dedicated to trading and yes there is this one that is solely for selling of invites,so if its safety that worries u,be rest assured u are fighting a myth.if they want u they will have u with or without fst.

Secondly,I don't understand why you blame society for you having birthed,adopted and raising your kids into prostitutes and pedophiles yet you are the parent...
These traders/sellers are your beloved donors.you made them with this policy of give me money i give you invites,so its really immature and hypocritical for anyone to lay full blame on one party here(please challenge that to see how ignorant u are)....

Hypothetically speaking,its only the scene that can end all this level bs(they stop this release racing for a while)...maybe then we could have bt as it used to be,community,spirit and genuine filesharing(who here remembers the demonoid forums of old?)and even today,their fora are still miles ahead of some of these so called elite trackers...

I don't know,how many trackers today can survive by just having the community part alive...
Also what happened to open sign ups,i mean seriously,i recall bitme having a /signup.php every so often(and this argument of MPAA will signup is pure bullshit as again thanks to *************s they will buy their way in,if they want in)and i also tend to believe that people who care whether sites are open are genuine BT users..(just look at the trackers open for signups sticky)so in essence whether u want to acknowledge it or not,its you who made these traders and sellers..whether its by making access impossible or this money for invites policy...it all comes down to the tracker,ScL is as good as any of those trackers,yet you barely hear them complain or pick fights all over the net coz of traders/sellers...just take a look at bribery and you will see the corelation with this trader/seller e-drama.

[1000possibleclaws]

For the reviews: sure, free speech, but again, I have never understood revealing sites that clearly are risking themselves from the very beginning for the enjoyment of others.

I have always seen them as a way of countering the value put on trackers by the the WTAW thread. People can see from the reviews what a tracker is like without having to get an invite/account.

[Skiz]

From the threads I have seen, it seems as if the FST staff and tracker staff are pitted against each other in a perpetual quandary and battle. Being somewhat in this kind of situation for quite a while, I feel it is really essential for both sides to stop the miscommunication.

That's where you're dead wrong. We (mods) don't really care about any of this stuff nearly as much as you guys and the staffers. We don't get worked up enough about any of this to bother with the name calling and whatnot.

I can assure you that the "battle" they are fighting is completely one sided; no one is fighting back with the petty games and pseudo-attacks. We aren't pushing back at all for that matter. We've got our backs turned and are enjoying our own site as usual. They can have the drama.

[niceguy4]

Hi.

I feel it is time that FST has had a real thread full of honest questions and clear answers. I will look at both sides of this recurring issue and hope to address it once and for all, which seems rather unlikely. For years (literally), lack of coherent communication has hindered an enjoyable process that was once "merely sharing files." The online drama, funny enough, is rather a immature evolution from what we truly wanted.

From the threads I have seen, it seems as if the FST staff and tracker staff are pitted against each other in a perpetual quandary and battle. Being somewhat in this kind of situation for quite a while, I feel it is really essential for both sides to stop the miscommunication.

Bittorrent, in its core sense, is to share files. No doubt since it's appearance in 2001, and its widespread use starting in 2004, it has escalated to much more than that. While it had been mostly used as a method for friends online to share files at first, we have developed into a hypocritical online network full of liars and backstabbers. Since their commencement, trackers are now exhibited in a "What Trackers Are Worth" thread, apparently largely catered to "traders." This is no doubt a violation of site rules, sites of which many FST staff are on.

Now, I ask you, why? Traders, in reality, rarely use the trackers they trade. Ironically, they use the the trackers they have successfully traded as "trophy trackers," trackers that represent nothing but its face value as a name. Now rather than actually use the site, they again trade accounts and invites for what they deem as a "higher level tracker," a number superficially branded based on rarity to represent a tracker.

Traders, in real life, are normal human beings like you and me. Online, however, they can have ten or even twenty alternate identities. We have all heard of trader hunters. Their essential goal is to rid of these users from trackers, mostly for one reason. Traders compromise site security, just as the reviews in the WTAW thread do. While FST staff seems to value their members' security and deem it their admirable quality, it is a paradoxical action when they do not seem to realize trackers are doing the same. What most of us is illegal, yet they condone the fact that traders should be helped in their desires to achieve the delusional goal of attaining a "tracker." Is there some hidden motive behind this? I leave this to FST staff to ponder, whether or not they decide to announce it publicly. Don't tell me it's to satiate the needs of traders. If FST really cared about them, they would advise them with a thread of the detrimental qualities of trading and lead them in the right direction instead of condoning these actions.

On another note, allow me to make an example with history that pretty much sums up the e-drama that has been going on for quite a while now.

After World War II, America again deemed the Soviet Union as its main rival. While an ally in the second World War, the Soviet Union was angry that America had arrived so late in the war. The USSR, during the whole course of the war until D-Day, thought the US had viewed them as rivals, and allowed the Soviets to "bleed" and exterminate the Nazis AND the Communists for the convenience of Americans. This, however is untrue, as FDR had been slowly pushing America out of its isolationist status. After the war, Truman, now the President, announced his plan for a Truman Doctrine or, as it was widely known, containment. The plan was to keep Communism from spreading and for the USSR to give up the countries it had obtained during the war. The Soviet Union said no, and America thought that they had planned to spread Communism across the world. What they did not realize is that Russia had lost 20 million soldiers in the war until D-Day, and invaded THREE times since Napoleon last invaded the country. The "Iron Curtain" (countries the USSR obtained in the war) was to act as a buffer zone from future invasions, while Truman believed it was the start of the spread of Communism. Thus, the Cold War began.

Please excuse my language, but this stupid shit ran on for decades, an arms race that lasted caused of disillusioned retards who never communicated. Both sides were CLEARLY apprehensive of each other, but always assumed the other side was making a move.

If you haven't realized yet, this analogy fits rather perfectly in our Bittorrent world. Tracker staff, being Soviet Russia, are apprehensive of invasions from bad users. They closed their doors, and people started characterizing them as being "1337." FST staff, being America, keep a staunch position on keeping their traders and reviews, sadly not admitting the fact that trackers are having their security ruined by these users. No matter the experience of a tracker staff, they are there to protect their site, regardless of they seeming immaturity.

On the other hand, tracker staff are so ruthless in their catching traders that people start thinking they're crazy. It's a dog eat dog world to them, and they will do anything to protect their site rather than protect YOU. It may not be entirely understandable to everyone, but they are more secretive about their trackers and members, as they are so conspicuously doing something more wrong than hosting a public site about file sharing. Some tracker staff are truly immature; it's a pity. The situations at hand is the amount of traders FST hosts and the paranoia of staff to protect their sites.

I have typed enough to prove my point. Most of you probably did not read it entirely due to your lack of wanting to read long paragraphs, but I strongly suggest we take a clear approach to this right now rather than go on for months with meaningless topic. You may accuse me of having no life, but I will say, that if you have any opinion concerning this, that you partake in this thread with some explanations that will elucidate this situation.

This topic may not change anything. So be it. However, I strongly hope we will change the attitude of both sides, both of whom are very protective of their stances, largely due to dearth of cooperation between both camps.

I will probably return to this thread and reply again, with a much shorter post to address the short attention span of the majority of bittorrent users.

With that, bye for now and good luck.

dam... i will never get back the 2 minutes i wasted to read this post.... nor the beer.... i hate my life