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Thread: How can people be so naive?

  1. #1
    Rart's Avatar Hold The Line
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    I have recently seen an older thread that seemed completely unrelated to my searches on usenet providers, and what I saw really surprised me. I was looking at the fiasco over donations on Pedro's BTMusic, and I see this:

    Peace to all those who share for the love of music not profit,
    I just don't understand how so many people in that thread can be so shocked and disturbed by something where the staff are profiting from the donations (Not saying that the allegations were right or wrong). How could anyone be so naive to what running a tracker truly requires of a person?

    Now, don't get me wrong, I'm sure that there are torrent staff or moderators who keep sites running for "the sake of sharing". But at least in my belief, those are far and few between and it would be too naive to think about it any other way.

    Just think about it. While it's not like being in the scene, running a torrent site is still a a pretty shady and tedious business. Just to name a few of the things they probably have to come up with and maintain, although I'm not saying I know the inside-outs of trackers.

    Coming up with a concept and layout.

    Extensive knowledge of scripts, torrents, web development, programming, ect. ect

    Knowledge in the programs/OS's/other crap needed to run a server (sorry I don't know much about this lol)

    Hefty monthly server costs.

    Constantly fixing bugs and maintaining the site.

    Finding willing moderators, FLS, coders, designers, ect. (I'm not sure if they get paid on most sites, but if not you're gonna need some pretty damn good incentives to encourage them to help).

    Uploaders with high speed seedboxes and scene access.

    Paying for those seedboxes and scene access to keep the site running and maintained.

    Promoting and/or generating interest for the tracker.

    And on the off chance your tracker creating endeavor is successful, you'll end up with even more users and have to consider increasing server loads and upgrading servers, which in turn means even more money is needed.

    Most importantly, running a site is risky. Under the constant threat of the feds and running an extremely thin line between whats legal and not, complete and absolute anonymity is a must. Scene access, copyrighted content, ect. all result in a need for offshore banking accounts, offshore hosting, basically a trust no one and suspect everyone approach. You don't want to turn into the next TPB or Oink do you?

    Add that all up together and you finally have a recipe (or at least part of it, I won't pretend to know everything about trackers) for a successful tracker. Now tell me honestly how many people would go through all that JUST for the "sake of sharing". Why not just go to another existing site and upload some stuff for the "sake of sharing"? Maybe there are a couple people who truly which to share files with the world, but those are most likely far smaller in number. Running a tracker is certainly not childs play, and I find it amazing that so many people could be so shocked and outraged if site owners take some of the donations for themselves.

    How could one be so naive

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  3. BitTorrent   -   #2
    PackMeIn Staff
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    I went through all that. It wasn't for the sake of sharing really. It was mostly because I was bored. I definitely didn't do it for profit though (to be honest I have serious doubts I'd ever be able to profit from it anyway as we don't offer invites to donors or upload or any of the other massive donation grabbers). I don't think I'd want to turn it into a business either. I don't want to profit from the hard work of the people who produce the shared media. I just wanted to do something nice and a little different. Running a torrent site is kind of a cool conversation starter.

    As far as Pedro's goes if you check the site you can literally donate for an account. You don't even need to be a member nor know anyone else there to get invited. You just need money. If that couldn't tip people off then maybe the world isn't quite as cynical as I'd have thought.

    Unfortunately I might find out later that I know one of Pedro's staff or have offended one of my friends who does and may have to edit this post. Oh well...

  4. BitTorrent   -   #3
    Rart's Avatar Hold The Line
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    I have checked the site and as far as I could tell the site doesn't allow you to donate for an invite. If that was true that would certainly destroy any thought I had as to PedrosBt not taking money for themselves =/. However I can see the giant donation buttons on the log in screen, whereas most sites don't let even let you see any of the site until you log in...

  5. BitTorrent   -   #4
    PackMeIn Staff
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    Hmm, they must've changed it. Well that's an improvement because for awhile I remember being able to donate for an invite to the site. Good for them I guess.

  6. BitTorrent   -   #5
    djerholler69's Avatar Love Bytes! BT Rep: +3
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    yep, its been a while since they closed the donate for invite system.

  7. BitTorrent   -   #6
    megabyteme's Avatar PROF MALINGERER BT Rep: +18BT Rep +18BT Rep +18BT Rep +18
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    I had a recent discussion with one of the prominent site owners. For him, it all came down to community. That was it. He just wanted a place where people shared common interests (and brought together loosely with file-sharing). It certainly wasn't about money. It was whole heartedly based on peoples' need to socialize. Also, he mentioned the benefits of being online and anonymous- lack of prejudice. All of the biases and assumptions that we have are moot online.

    Anyway, the conversation did a lot for me. I hope it helps shine light on some of your questions. IRL, everything is somehow based on money or inequality. It's nice to escape that once in a while.
    Quote Originally Posted by IdolEyes787 View Post
    [...] any Science fiction that doesn't have Tom Cruise in it is ghey.

  8. BitTorrent   -   #7
    1000possibleclaws's Avatar BT God BT Rep: +100BT Rep +100BT Rep +100BT Rep +100BT Rep +100BT Rep +100BT Rep +100BT Rep +100BT Rep +100BT Rep +100BT Rep +100BT Rep +100BT Rep +100BT Rep +100BT Rep +100BT Rep +100BT Rep +100BT Rep +100BT Rep +100BT Rep +100
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    Quote Originally Posted by DonkeyPacker View Post
    I went through all that. It wasn't for the sake of sharing really. It was mostly because I was bored. I definitely didn't do it for profit though (to be honest I have serious doubts I'd ever be able to profit from it anyway as we don't offer invites to donors or upload or any of the other massive donation grabbers). I don't think I'd want to turn it into a business either. I don't want to profit from the hard work of the people who produce the shared media. I just wanted to do something nice and a little different. Running a torrent site is kind of a cool conversation starter.

    As far as Pedro's goes if you check the site you can literally donate for an account. You don't even need to be a member nor know anyone else there to get invited. You just need money. If that couldn't tip people off then maybe the world isn't quite as cynical as I'd have thought.

    Unfortunately I might find out later that I know one of Pedro's staff or have offended one of my friends who does and may have to edit this post. Oh well...
    So I QFT

  9. BitTorrent   -   #8
    DISABLED PRIVS
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    On the topic:
    Am I the only one who finds it rather disturbing that on most sites, when n00bz ask ratio-questions like; "oh noez! my ratio's in danger! wat should i doh?!" Mods often reply like this:"You can always donate to get upload or VIP, that'll probably the best way out.." instead of redirecting them to ratio-guides, giving them useful tips etc. It seems like they want to instill the user that donating money is the only way to getting a better ratio/more upload, instead of taking some time and writing something useful. And yes, this'd be rather hard work to do every time when a noob ask a question, but come on! I've seen this on many sites(to mention one, bitmetv) and at least I find it rather...weird.

  10. BitTorrent   -   #9
    megabyteme's Avatar PROF MALINGERER BT Rep: +18BT Rep +18BT Rep +18BT Rep +18
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    charlie, That isn't really a bad suggestion from my POV. The way I see things, everyone has a responsibility to bring something to the site(s) they join. This could be bandwidth, interesting discussion, new files, system necessary skills (for the site), or money.

    If someone is new, and they are having trouble "paying back" what they have taken, why couldn't/shouldn't it be money (we aren't talking about large amounts here) to help the site stay running?

    To me, it's kinda like Thanksgiving dinner...the host donates the turkey and hams (w/e) and guests are asked to bring some side-dishes. Some people bring rolls, potato salad (usually something to avoid), chips, and even sometimes napkins. Think of the few dollars donated as bringing the napkins. They are needed for the party and the host shouldn't have to supply everything. And honestly, some people are such lousy cooks that you wouldn't want them to bring anything else.

    Anyway, take this FWIW.

    Edit- BTW, there is nothing wrong with donating to a site you use and enjoy. Even if you already bring something else to the "table".
    Last edited by megabyteme; 08-28-2009 at 10:44 PM. Reason: Added ending note on donations.
    Quote Originally Posted by IdolEyes787 View Post
    [...] any Science fiction that doesn't have Tom Cruise in it is ghey.

  11. BitTorrent   -   #10
    DanielleD87's Avatar bunny
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    I've thought about making a tracker out of a wiki like wikipedia but a tracker where anyone can come in and alter the code to the site in nearly real time. It would be like extreme open source and everyone could mod everyone. No one would truly run the site.

    But, I'm not cool enough to jump into the lime light to create something like that. If I did I would have to make it a living breathing entity that could go on its own without an owner. It is a much bigger and more creative challenge than it seems it would be.

    /offtopic

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