Does going No-Ratio really help peer activity?

[sez]

You beat me to this thread .

I like the way that you put it(pay it forward i.e)it gives more responsibility to us members without neccesarily the need to be baby sat on by ratio rules and of course the admins.This system while with its own cons I feel its much less of a gamble than the prevalent no ratio system(responsible for the death of nearly all the startups that chose to go the 'cool' way).Infact this traditional ratioless system is just bad and utterly unsustainable.I guarantee you if you got rid of the l33+ factor from those sites that still stand they'd probably be facing the same fate as their cousins..I'd go on forever but thats just another plus for TvT(i'll probably put up a thread about this soon).

and so imo if a tracker wants to go ratioless it should make sure it has the proper license to do so first i.e be l33+ otherwise its bound to fail or struggle all through.Otherwise its high time sites try out the TvT system which imo is far more superior than any other system that be.word yo!

[mrnobody]

exclude 2 or maybe 3 no-ratio tracker, the rest are pure shit.

[megabyteme]

It seems there are 2 kinds of users who look for ratio-free sites.

1) Adults who appreciate being trusted and treated like adults. These members like to give back (and probably then some)and like being part of a thriving, prospering community.

2) Immature kids. They act like kids, need to be treated like kids, and don't have a clue what community means. When the site goes to shit, they say, "lame" and keep moving on...

I don't think that there is an inherent failing in the ratio-less site philosophy. The problem(s) occur when too many "kids" are allowed to play in the "adult" world.

Damn. I sound like a grouchy old bastard this morning.
Now, stay off my lawn!!!

[Duckater]

It seems there are 2 kinds of users who look for ratio-free sites.

1) Adults who appreciate being trusted and treated like adults. These members like to give back (and probably then some)and like being part of a thriving, prospering community.

2) Immature kids. They act like kids, need to be treated like kids, and don't have a clue what community means. When the site goes to shit, they say, "lame" and keep moving on...

I don't think that there is an inherent failing in the ratio-less site philosophy. The problem(s) occur when too many "kids" are allowed to play in the "adult" world.

Damn. I sound like a grouchy old bastard this morning.
Now, stay off my lawn!!!

Can I have me ball back please sir??

Like mentioned and I have to agree it all depends on the user/member base and there attitudes.
I think an established tracker that has had no new members in a while and provides and does well does not really need a ratio system or seed time.
Another thing that does make a difference to how long people seed for on a seed box is if that seed box is used mainly for uploading to other sites as they will want a good turn around of torrents for that site.
I have done this several yrs in the past but on stuff I got for myself as well once seed box had finished and it was on me home pc would then seed from there for a long time on top of origional seed amount.

[megabyteme]

*Gives ball back to Duckater*

[c0pyr1ght]

I think FTN owes much of its success to being a pioneer of the no-ratio system. It isn't a huge site with a tremendous archive of well-seeded torrents, but that's not really the point of torrents in my opinion (and that of some uploaders I've chatted with).

But I've noticed in the last year, since they've opened up a lot more invites, that the explosion of seedboxes has affected FTN as well. I've noticed that most of the new users have quickly surpassed my fairly high upload amount. These people are pushing out TBs within a few weeks/months. How? By downloading everything popular in every format available and every pack and then even cross-seeding on other sites. Why would anyone cross-seed a new torrent on FTN? There is no ratio and the guise of "I'll help seed" is bogus. It's all about the epenis.

So I've noticed in this time that there are probably a lot of peers, especially in the first wave of snatches and first couple of days, that are not at FTN to benefit from the no-ratio system. In fact, the no-ratio system should be discouraging them from downloading at FTN. Yet, the peer numbers overall are inflated by the seedbox phenomenon.

I've only been a member of PTM for a few months and frankly don't use it all that often. Plus I cannot observe the peers list on site (and am not familiar with most of the older users like at FTN). However, I think their variation of the no-ratio system works great. Most of the users are on home connections. Some are on shared seedboxes or decent dedis. Overall this means speeds are a little slower, but with the larger userbase, the swarms are still really fast. I'm sure there are some cross-seeders and other forms of kids playing with their seedbox there as well, but from what I can see, there are still a lot of people benefiting from the no-ratio system.

All that being said, I think you're misinterpreting two key points.

1) No-ratio systems are not intended to prevent hit and runs.
No-ratio systems are intended solely to encourage leeching, especially for slower home connections and those who come a few hours after the swarm. The reason a number of torrents are 1/0 is almost always because it is something nobody really wants (some lame tv show) or it is really old and being kept alive by one of the handful of people who everything forever no matter what.
2) Most new trackers fail. I think there are more than enough trackers out there. There probably were more than enough a year or two ago, but they keep on coming out. Just going no-ratio will not save any site, no matter how awesome it is in theory. I think one of the biggest problems in this over-saturated marketplace is the fact that so many trackers make it difficult to even hear about them, let alone get in. Keeping things small and private is great, but not when the server costs are still high and the lack of torrent activity makes people who finally do get in go, "that's it?"

I truly believe in the no-ratio system. By having some stats and rules in place and providing good content, you'll encourage people to be responsible users. They might not seed forever, but if they seed for a few days or close to 1:1, I think that's pretty damn good. I don't know if it would work on a big site, but I doubt it will ever be implemented. Big sites are big because they are established and most of them are not going to radically change their ways.

[n00bz0r]

Quoted for truth.. minus the actual quote.

[lisabritpop]

For the ratio-free tracker,i think a primary consideration is Community and Friendship,then maybe the content or peers...you konw,Popular torrents will always seeded well in all over the trackers....As far as I know,Many secret ratio-free trackers works well throughout.....

[Zip]

It really depends on the site.

[The_Martinator]

People have said it comes down to staff and the users. Imo it only comes down to the members. The staf consists of what 10, 20 people? that's too little to make a real difference in peer numbers. There are other ways in which the staff can influence users, but in the end it comes down to the question each member has to ask himself: ''Do you want to seed, just for seeding's sake?''

Come to think of it, I wonder what would happen if the usergroups were removed alltogether at say FTN. I bet the peers number would drop. I mean FTN is great, but some people are still there for the epen and if being a Hero increases it, then so be it.

Nothing wrong with the number of seeboxes though. I take advantage of it and then seed till I bleed.