Are We Jsut A Bunch Of Theives?

[DragonFlame]

I've never had a problem buying Music Cd's and Dvd's it when you get to Game's that I have a problem. A cd or dvd when you buy it you at least feel like your getting your money's worth.
Think about it. Million's upon Millions of dollas are spent on movies so they can hire actors and make their movie, and music also has alot of money behind it. I'm not saying that Game companies don't spend a lot of cash on their Game but not the amount that the Movie & Music companies spend. And then they have the nerve to charge us around 4 to 5 times the amount of a Dvd or Music Cd. I buy my music Cd's and Dvd's but you would never catch me buying a game unless it was really worth it and I tell you most of them are not.

[vader]

I would like to add that Finding Nemo, one of the biggest downloads and best representations of original work on the net sold 8 million copies on day one on DVD . Madden series Sports Games are through the roof and similiar hot video tittles are carrying their companies to leading edge. Thats why nemo does well and madden and so on. If you waist my time and money with hyped crap then your actualy- robbing me- of money and time. -- And so, am I stealing when I am going to buy it anyway...no. -- Am I stealing when I download something, find I do not like it, and would not have spent a dime on it ,so as the company does not loose what they would not have recieved...no -- Are there people out there profitting when they should not be and Law suites in every direction, company v.s company -company v.s individual-indiviual v.s government vise versa and bla bla bla ...yes .- The answer is most p2p are not theives and the Digital Millenium act is a joke . How in god's name can you expect to put the genie back in the bottle now. The industry's have to get on board or they can wait untill the RIAA disharten's enough folkes either into downloading ( wich is what has happened) or pisses off enough people truly affect over the counter sales. Either way it's a flamming way to go out. Wish I had a buggle

[globalterminator]

no. its just like going to a video store, and copying the video

[O'Neill]

Ive done that with a few games before, brought it, copied it and took it back claiming it wouldnt work for me
And of course the law over in the UK states that if I have a reciept they mustrefund my money, all in all a free game

[Adster]

we ain't stealing where using it for our own entertainment and we ain't getting the full package that i on teh store for sale

what if I buy a apple and plant teh apple core in teh garden and grow more apples/? Artist forget that peopel download their stuff to hear it and then buy the real thing because it's so great

No no I'm not a f*cking thieve

Blah



BTW thought I bump this for another debate

[Sid Hartha]

Originally posted by Adster@18 March 2004 - 13:30
Artist forget that peopel download their stuff to hear it and then buy the real thing because it's so great...

Is that what you do?


I never called you a thief, but I will say you're a hypocrite.

[Mystikan]

Consider this:

Big Name Artist writes a song. She spends maybe 18 hours composing lyrics, perhaps another 20 working up the music. She and her band of 3 other players practice the song for perhaps 2 weeks @ 10 or so hours per day = 140 hours x 4 band members = 560 man-hours. Then they go to the recording studio. They spend maybe 6 hours getting the recording right, plus 4 technicians to handle the equipment = 6 x (4 + 4) = 48 man-hours. Then the resulting recording is mass duplicated for distribution.

Let's tot up the hours here:

Write lyrics: 18
Write music: 20
Band practice: 560
Recording: 48
Total Man-hours to produce song = 646

Let's be generous and say Big Name Artist and her band and techs time is worth $100 per hour each. Total break-even revenue required = $64,460 (not counting distribution). Yet they'll make FAR more than that selling even second-rate CDs!

Now, here's my point:

Once that total is reached, any extra money is money received FOR NO WORK. If anyone is making money and not working for it then IMHO they are a fucking parasite. This is the fundamental flaw of capitalism - it allows people to make money simply by having money, or by the artificial cultural artifact of "title". Thus the "rich get richer and the poor get poorer", as the saying goes. As someone earlier in this forum astutely stated, pure Capitalism is as destructive as pure Communism. He/She also mentions a "middle of the road" solution. There is one. Not Capitalism. Not Communism...

Socialism ROCKS!!! Down with Capitalism! Read the works of Jack London (an American, I might add)! Especially read The Iron Heel and The People Of The Abyss. Any sane, altruistic person must agree with what London says in these works. That was 80 years ago! And what he predicted about the Iron Heel has indeed come to pass. You are now living it, every day!

So I am a thief. But I have no ethical problem stealing within a system that allows the greedy and idle to prosper without giving anything back to the people. Ensure that wealth is fairly distributed amongst those who make wealth possible, instead of having 98% of the world's wealth in the hands of 2% of the people, and I'll pay. Gladly. Because I'll actually BE ABLE TO!

[Sid Hartha]

Originally posted by Mystikan@29 March 2004 - 19:10
Consider this:

Big Name Artist writes a song. She spends maybe 18 hours composing lyrics, perhaps another 20 working up the music....

Socialism ROCKS!!! ...

Interesting, but I think your math is way off, especially regarding expenses. Read this* article by a well-respected independent producer, then tell me if you still think recording artists are the greedy ones.

If you think (generally speaking) that recording artists live extravagantly, you're dreaming. And probably watching too much TV. Don't bother citing Madonna or Britney or whoever as an example - they only represent 0.00001% of all recording artists.

People who create something are not parasites. The real parasites are the recording industry, which prefer to keep a low profile and remain nameless and faceless.


edit/
*here is an excerpt from that article:

Advance: $250,000
Manager's cut: $37,500
Legal fees: $10,000
Recording Budget: $150,000
Producer's advance: $50,000
Studio fee: $52,500
Drum, Amp, Mic and Phase "Doctors": $3,000
Recording tape: $8,000
Equipment rental: $5,000
Cartage and Transportation: $5,000
Lodgings while in studio: $10,000
Catering: $3,000
Mastering: $10,000
Tape copies, reference CDs, shipping tapes, misc expenses: $2,000

Video budget: $30,000
Cameras: $8,000
Crew: $5,000
Processing and transfers: $3,000
Offline: $2,000
Online editing: $3,000
Catering: $1,000
Stage and construction: $3,000
Copies, couriers, transportation: $2,000
Director's fee: $3,000

Album Artwork: $5,000
Promotional photo shoot and duplication: $2,000

Band fund: $15,000
New fancy professional drum kit: $5,000
New fancy professional guitars (2): $3,000
New fancy professional guitar amp rigs (2): $4,000
New fancy potato-shaped bass guitar: $1,000
New fancy rack of lights bass amp: $1,000
Rehearsal space rental: $500
Big blowout party for their friends: $500

Tour expense (5 weeks): $50,875
Bus: $25,000
Crew (3): $7,500
Food and per diems: $7,875
Fuel: $3,000
Consumable supplies: $3,500
Wardrobe: $1,000
Promotion: $3,000

Tour gross income: $50,000
Agent s cut: $7,500
Manager's cut: $7,500

Merchandising advance: $20,000
Manager's cut: $3,000
Lawyer's fee: $1,000

Publishing advance: $20,000
Manager's cut: $3,000
Lawyer's fee: $1,000

Record sales: 250,000 @ $12 = $3,000,000 gross retail revenue Royalty (13% of 90% of retail): $351,000
Less advance: $250,000
Producer's points: (3% less $50,000 advance) $40,000
Promotional budget: $25,000
Recoupable buyout from previous label: $50,000
Net royalty: (-$14,000)

Record company income:
Record wholesale price $6.50 x 250,000 = $1,625,000 gross income
Artist Royalties: $351,000
Deficit from royalties: $14,000
Manufacturing, packaging and distribution @ $2.20 per record: $550,000
Gross profit: $710,000

The Balance Sheet: This is how much each player got paid at the end of the game.

Record company: $710,000
Producer: $90,000
Manager: $51,000
Studio: $52,500
Previous label: $50,000
Agent: $7,500
Lawyer: $12,000
Band member net income each: $4,031.25

[puk:))]

yes we are stealing & no i dont have a problem with that... & i'll tell ya why...

just as an example i really like the LOTRs films & saw the first 2 in the cinema (i also own 1 & 2 on dvd) ... now when the 3rd one came out.... i decided i didnt want to spend 3 1/2 hours sitting in a room tightly packed in uncomfetable seats where i cant have a joint.... so i downloaded it & watched it at home.

now i did feel guilty about this for a while (because there good films) until i read that it made $500,000,000 in the opening weekend (3 days!!!!&#33.

now for the LOTR i have spent (2 dvd's & 2 tickets) = $40..... have they lost out.... have they shite.... do we get robbed by companys like fox & sony every week..... damn right we do.

what goes around comes around.

[B.Helto]

Originally posted by puk)@30 March 2004 - 17:52
do we get robbed by companies like fox & sony every week..... damn right we do.

Really? How does that happen, how do they rob you?