Page 2 of 5 FirstFirst 12345 LastLast
Results 11 to 20 of 44

Thread: Bowling For Columbine

  1. #11
    jetje's Avatar former star
    Join Date
    Sep 2002
    Location
    Netherlands
    Posts
    4,453
    Originally posted by hobbes@3 November 2003 - 00:00
    It is important to note that non-Americans will get a horribly skewed view of the average American from this movie and their input is not helpful. You really have to live and breathe our society, before you know how to couch this movie in the big picture.
    A bit shortsided view from you imo, as if people that have an outside view on things and problems don't have good things to say about these issues??

    If your assumption is true how come western politicians can interfer in for instance middle east issues or the balkan conflict? By your standards "they haven't lived and breathe that society, so they don't know how to couch this"

    I guess everyone with an open mind can take a look at this kind of issues and have (or form) a good opinion.
    Think these kind of movies gives "outsiders" a chance to get a closer look at the internal US issues on gun control and stuff, and helps us to try and understand you folks over there a bit better

    I think in Europe these gun issues and shootings (on schools) are not such a big problem as in the US (yet) but over here these things take place too.
    On the subject, i thought it was a very good documentry. And for me made it clear that gun control "all over the world" is needed , imo it can take away a lot of big "accidents". No guns = no shootings.

    The Americans like to feel to have a right to protect yourself. Maybe it is better to protect yourself by not allowing guns at all, then to have a bigger gun.
    I like to think of a scene from Crocodile Dundee, where the crocodile figure is ambushed by a street gang in new York. They threaten him with a stileto. The cool dude sais "that ain't a knif, this is a knife (while taking out a very big hunting knife). The gang back of... is this fun? yes it is but also it is exactly why having a gun is not protecting you, if everyone has a gun, the "bad guys" just gonna use bigger and better guns... so everyone protects themselves better and... well the only ones who benefits this is the arms industry.... And imo those are the ones that like to have "the right to have arms" alive... for nothing more then money issues...

    On a bigger scale if we can control guns/weaponary we maybe can find solutions for the big African problems, where war lords can destabilize complete countries and terrorize millions of people just because they are rich enough to buy and wear arms. The fact i mention this is that sometimes i ask myself, that if we can't control guns how far off are we "civilized nations" to get the same as what is happening over there????

  2. The Drawing Room   -   #12
    I watched about half of B for C and while i completely agree with the theme of gun control, I just couldn't get over the fact that Micael Moore is a complete pillock.
    He told that for example if a provider or compagny doesn't provide punctually one of its customers then the compagny gotta pay financial penalities. This doesn't exists in France.
    Isn't that just breach of contract? ie not delivering on time? Surely every country in the world has that law, it would be impossible to do business without it?

    A bit shortsided view from you imo, as if people that have an outside view on things and problems don't have good things to say about these issues??

    If your assumption is true how come western politicians can interfere in for instance middle east issues or the balkan conflict? By your standards "they haven't lived and breathe that society, so they don't know how to couch this"
    Imo Hobbes is probably justified in saying that it doesn't portray america(ns) fairly, it seems a highly one sided piece of media, but I was a bit surprised that he seems to not want (non-Americans) outsider opinions, as I think it does provide an interesting alternative perspective. Perhaps just trying to avoid comments from people who swallowed it without question?

  3. The Drawing Room   -   #13
    You keep family problems, in the family.

    I was just more interested in Americans' thought on the movie in this case. It is an unflattering look at ourselves. Do we dismiss it, ignore it, or learn from it?

    Late for work, so just this quickie.

    @Echi- I found the reporter covering the girls death to be chilling as well. He turned his emotions off and on with the camera. She was a story to him not a person. Moore did a good job showing what a "business" the news has become. They like the shock of a shooting, and view it as ratings and not as a tragedy. I don't think the reporter was even aware how Moore was using him to make a point.
    Aren't we in the trust tree, thingey?

  4. The Drawing Room   -   #14
    j2k4's Avatar en(un)lightened
    Join Date
    Nov 2002
    Location
    Oh, please...
    Posts
    15,890
    I'm plumb worn-out from bitching about Michael Moore, so I'll let someone else do it:

    Michael Moore: Flatulent Shit-head

    by Dr. Rufus Jackson
    March 21, 2003

    The media just loves Michael Moore. Of course not as much as Michael Moore loves himself and his fallacious attacks on "authority."

    Moore has a history of pissing up ropes. "Roger and Me" was Moore's first foray into being an irritating prick. It's a documentary in which Moore follows General Motors CEO Roger Smith. Moore tries to embarrass him into explaining layoffs at a GM plant in Flint. The layoffs are never explained. My guess would be that GM came to the realization that Flint sucks and is inhabited by uneducable troglodytes. Michael Moore was born there. Maybe that was the beginning of the end for Flint.

    More recently, Moore weighs in on the Columbine massacre. The poor delusional jackass is always trying to get to the bottom of something in his own hapless, socially retarded way. This time the NRA and guns get in Moore's sizeable craw.

    Michael, blaming guns for Columbine is the moral equivalent of blaming spoons for you being an obese asshole.

    Moore is just one in a long line of idiots that doesn't understand that a gun is an inanimate object. I've personally carried a gun in my car for five years and haven't killed anyone yet. Of course I've yet to meet Michael Moore.

    Moore's latest foray into half-baked ideas is his letter to President George W. Bush on the verge of Operation Iraqi Freedom. You can read his drivel, in it's entirety on michaelmoore.com. You might want to have an empty bucket handy as his inane ramblings tend to induce vomiting in most sentient beings.

    In this, my first "You're An Idiot" column, I'm going to take this asshole's logic apart, piece by piece. Moore's blather is in red, just like his political leanings. This is easier and almost more fun than kicking a drunk's ass.



    George W. Bush
    1600 Pennsylvania Ave.
    Washington, DC


    Dear Governor Bush:

    Hey cock-bite, even my six-year-old daughter knows he's the President of the United States. Had we gone to war under that lecherous, congenital liar Bill Clinton, I'd have at least shown him some respect. It must be tough being such a smarmy prick, but you seem to have adapted well.

    So today is what you call "the moment of truth," the day that "France and the rest of world have to show their cards on the table." I'm glad to hear that this day has finally arrived. Because, I gotta tell ya, having survived 440 days of your lying and conniving, I wasn't sure if I could take much more.

    So I'm glad to hear that today is Truth Day, 'cause I got a few truths I would like to share with you:
    Apparently the 2,920 days of Bill Clinton were no problem for you. You remember Bill Clinton, the former President who bombed a laxative factory in Sudan and a "terrorist camp" in Afghanistan in a lame attempt to get people to stop talking about his blow jobs at the hands and mouth of a fat Jewish girl from Beverly Hills. He was so great. His attacks may not have actually done anything, but by golly, he tried real hard.

    [Read President's Clinton's "Hey-look-at-me-aren't-I-Presidential-stop-thinking-about-fat-girls-giving-me-head" speech.]


    1. There is virtually NO ONE in America (talk radio nutters and Fox News aside) who is gung-ho to go to war. Trust me on this one.

    Sure Michael, obviously you've done your homework: cnn.com Poll: Two-thirds of Americans support Bush ultimatum Walk out of the White House and on to any street in America and try to find five people who are PASSIONATE about wanting to kill Iraqis. YOU WON'T FIND THEM!Nice straw-man argument, lard-ass. Since you appear to be such a fucking moron, let me give you a little lesson in fallacious reasoning:

    Straw-Man:


    Person A (Bush) has position X (The liberation of Iraq).

    Person B (Michael Moore) presents position Y (which is a distorted version of X - George Bush wants to kill Iraqis).

    Person B (Moore) attacks position Y (killing innocent Iraqis – "George, you shouldn't do that!")

    Therefore X (liberating Iraq) is false/incorrect/flawed.

    I guess we can't really blame you for the University of Michigan failing to teach this sort of thing in freshman English. Maybe if you'd stuck around and gotten an education then a "gun nut" wouldn't have to teach you how not to be an ignorant asshole. But where's the fun in being thorough when you can just throw bombs and convince the media to kiss your wide ass, right Mike?! Why? 'Cause NO Iraqis have ever come here and killed any of us! No Iraqi has even threatened to do that. You see, this is how we average Americans think: If a certain so-and-so is not perceived as a threat to our lives, then, believe it or not, we don't want to kill him! Funny how that works! Ignorance is bliss, isn't it Michael? Apparently not long after you wrote this fantasy piece, Iraq launched missiles…missiles they claimed they didn't have. Wonder what else they have hidden? Being the genius you are, I'm sure you know that Hussein would never try to attack this country. I'm sure you're on the CIA's mailing list. You must know we're only going there for oil and the fun of hunting innocent civilians.


    2. The majority of Americans -- the ones who never elected you -- are not fooled by your weapons of mass distraction.

    Of course if you weren't such a moron, you'd know that a majority of Americans have NEVER elected a President. Can't you just say what you mean or do I have to interpret EVERYTHING for you? It's odd that once the war began, U.S. Special Forces have secured…a facility containing…WEAPONS OF MASS DESTRUCTION!, something the limp-wristed U.N. weapons inspectors couldn't find while prancing through Iraq.

    We know what the real issues are that affect our daily lives -- and none of them begin with I or end in Q. Here's what threatens us: two and a half million jobs lost since you took office, the stock market having become a cruel joke, no one knowing if their retirement funds are going to be there, gas now costs almost two dollars -- the list goes on and on. Bombing Iraq will not make any of this go away. Only you need to go away for things to improve.

    There's nothing more pathetic than watching people hitch their fate and that of the economy to the President. If you were here in front of me (no doubt blotting out the majority of light in the vicinity) I'm sure you would proceed to tell me how bad the Reagan economy was and how great the Clinton economy was. I'm sure you'd tell me how that is "truth" too. You're a partisan prick of the lowest order. Truth is as foreign to you as a salad.

    3. As Bill Maher said last week, how bad do you have to suck to lose a popularity contest with Saddam Hussein? The whole world is against you, Mr. Bush. Count your fellow Americans among them.

    Are you fucking blind? Check the poll results.

    4. The Pope has said this war is wrong, that it is a SIN.

    The Pope! The Pope knows ALL about sin. Hell, he heads the world's largest organization of pedophiles. Mabye Il Papa should concentrate on the Catholic Church's problems – like keeping the clergy from fucking young boys. That being said, there's a deeper issue here. Apparently you think the Pope is taking a moral stand on the issue of war. Of course if we look at your WORDS in an interview with Tikkun.com in December 1998, it would almost appear that you don't like what the Pope stands for. You said: "Then there's a much larger group of Catholics who have just chosen to ignore the idiocy of the edicts from Rome on birth control, abortion, women's rights." So the "edicts from Rome on birth control, abortion, and women's rights" are "idiocy" but he's right on when criticizing the war. The Pope may think the war is wrong, but I don't take any advice from men who wear dresses and take life-long oaths that involve swearing off pussy, and neither should President Bush. It's no surprise that this Pope has turned his head. He's not the first Pope to do that and probably won't be the last.

    But even worse, the Dixie Chicks have now come out against you! And we all know what geniuses of public policy the Dixie Chicks are. "That's it President Bush! The Dixie Chicks don't want this! Call it all off!!" That's almost as ridiculous as Martin Sheen doing political ads because he pretends to be the president on a tv show. Someone needs to tell you and your friends that PRETENDING to be someone doesn't inject you with any degree of intelligence. How bad does it have to get before you realize that you are an army of one on this war? You're really a fucking moron, aren't you? Of course, this is a war you personally won't have to fight. Just like when you went AWOL while the poor were shipped to Vietnam in your place. You mean like Bill Clinton? Hey, if it's good enough for poor Bubba, it should be good enough for everyone else.


    5. Of the 535 members of Congress, only ONE (Sen. Johnson of South Dakota) has an enlisted son or daughter in the armed forces! If you really want to stand up for America, please send your twin daughters over to Kuwait right now and let them don their chemical warfare suits. And let's see every member of Congress with a child of military age also sacrifice their kids for this war effort. What's that you say? You don't THINK so? Well, hey, guess what -- we don't think so either!

    Last time I checked, dickhead, we have a VOLUNTEER military. That doesn't mean that we Shanghai kids who DIDN'T FUCKING VOLUNTEER. I don't think anyone in the military doesn't understand going in that they could be killed in combat. You on the other hand appear to be so stupid that it might be news to you. You also slipped in the word "enlisted." So what's up, now officers don't count? Do your homework, lard-ass.

    6. Finally, we love France. Yes, they have pulled some royal screw-ups. Yes, some of them can be pretty damn annoying. But have you forgotten we wouldn't even have this country known as America if it weren't for the French? That it was their help in the Revolutionary War that won it for us? That our greatest thinkers and founding fathers -- Thomas Jefferson, Ben Franklin, etc. -- spent many years in Paris where they refined the concepts that lead to our Declaration of Independence and our Constitution?

    Isn't that rich? You're extolling the virtues of France by brining up events that happened 225 years ago? Aren't you going to bring up Jefferson fucking his slaves? I mean he was white, why not take a crack? I guess that wouldn't exactly bolster your airtight case, now would it. That it was France who gave us our Statue of Liberty, a Frenchman who built the Chevrolet, and a pair of French brothers who invented the movies? Well, how could we have survived without the ol' surrender monkeys! Them's some fabulous inventions! Can't live without Chevys! We all know how much you love General Motors!

    And now they are doing what only a good friend can do -- tell you the truth about yourself, straight, no b.s. Quit pissing on the French and thank them for getting it right for once. You know, you really should have traveled more (like once) before you took over. Your ignorance of the world has not only made you look stupid, it has painted you into a corner you can't get out of.

    Oh, you're right on this one. I agree, the French couldn't POSSIBLY have any reasons for being against war with Iraq. Only the same reason you continue to pump out your low-brow blather: TO MAKE MONEY.

    Well, cheer up -- there IS good news. If you do go through with this war, more than likely it will be over soon because I'm guessing there aren't a lot of Iraqis willing to lay down their lives to protect Saddam Hussein.

    No shit? I wonder why that is? Maybe because he has starved the Iraqi people for the last twelve years? Maybe because he likes to kill people for looking at him the wrong way?

    After you "win" the war, you will enjoy a huge bump in the popularity polls as everyone loves a winner -- and who doesn't like to see a good ass-whoopin' every now and then (especially when it's some third world ass&#33. So try your best to ride this victory all the way to next year's election. Of course, that's still a long ways away, so we'll all get to have a good hardy-har-har while we watch the economy sink even further down the toilet!

    More scintillating bullshit from the college drop-out…aimed directly at the "idiot" who has an undergraduate degree from Yale and an MBA from Harvard. That's nothing compared to a college dropout who used to run a weekly rag in Flint, Michigan.

    But, hey, who knows -- maybe you'll find Osama a few days before the election! See, start thinking like THAT! Keep hope alive! Kill Iraqis -- they got our oil!!

    "Blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, half-truth, blah, blah, innuendo, blah, blah, blah, red herring, blab, blah, blah.

    Yours,

    Michael Moore
    www.michaelmoore.com

    Hey! You finally got something right! Congrats, jackass. You're An Idiot.


    The Esteemed Dr. Jackson
    "Researchers have already cast much darkness on the subject, and if they continue their investigations, we shall soon know nothing at all about it."

    -Mark Twain

  5. The Drawing Room   -   #15
    Ex-member
    Join Date
    Jan 2003
    Posts
    5,450
    How very reasonable and even-handed.











    Michael Moore may be sensationalist, he may be excessive, but in many cases he has a strong point.


    To take but one example:
    Michael, blaming guns for Columbine is the moral equivalent of blaming spoons for you being an obese asshole.
    Eddie Izzard does a rather good quote on this subject:
    Sure, guns don't kill people, people kill people. True. But the guns help!

  6. The Drawing Room   -   #16
    j2k4's Avatar en(un)lightened
    Join Date
    Nov 2002
    Location
    Oh, please...
    Posts
    15,890
    Originally posted by Lamsey@3 November 2003 - 11:30
    How very reasonable and even-handed.











    Michael Moore may be sensationalist, he may be excessive, but in many cases he has a strong point.


    To take but one example:
    Michael, blaming guns for Columbine is the moral equivalent of blaming spoons for you being an obese asshole.
    Eddie Izzard does a rather good quote on this subject:
    Sure, guns don't kill people, people kill people. True. But the guns help!
    How moderate of you to notice, Liam.
    "Researchers have already cast much darkness on the subject, and if they continue their investigations, we shall soon know nothing at all about it."

    -Mark Twain

  7. The Drawing Room   -   #17
    Ex-member
    Join Date
    Jan 2003
    Posts
    5,450
    Originally posted by j2k4@3 November 2003 - 15:35
    How moderate of you to notice, Liam.
    Oy. The pun thread is in the Lounge

  8. The Drawing Room   -   #18
    BANNED
    Join Date
    Aug 2003
    Location
    Cairns, Queensland.
    Posts
    2,002
    I'm rather surprised at you j2, posting this tripe. I wonder what you would have said if someone else had posted it?

    It's odd that once the war began, U.S. Special Forces have secured…a facility containing…WEAPONS OF MASS DESTRUCTION!, something the limp-wristed U.N. weapons inspectors couldn't find while prancing through Iraq.
    Really?? Why haven't we heard about this?




  9. The Drawing Room   -   #19
    Ex-member
    Join Date
    Jan 2003
    Posts
    5,450
    I love that one.


    "No, you can't possibly have weapons of mass destruction. That's not allowed. You're far too irresponsible. You might actually use them. We'd never do such a thing as to use a massively powerful weapon and wipe out millions of innocent civilians' lives at the same time. We're the good guys."

  10. The Drawing Room   -   #20
    echidna's Avatar Poster
    Join Date
    May 2003
    Location
    Vladivostok
    Posts
    387
    Apparently not long after you wrote this fantasy piece, Iraq launched missiles…missiles they claimed they didn't have.
    U.S. Special Forces have secured…a facility containing…WEAPONS OF MASS DESTRUCTION!
    1. what missiles?
    2. someone better tell georgey, rummy and the world media that they've found the fabled WMD, i'm sure tony blair will be releived aswell [this one sentence completely negates Jackson as even a vaguely reliable source]
    for someone supposedly concerned with correcting the facts Dr Jackson is seems obsessed with michaels girth, between what i've seen of jackson's writting vs. moores writting it's the later who comes across better.

    i hope that this isn't the best rebutle [sic] of moore you have j2.

Page 2 of 5 FirstFirst 12345 LastLast

Bookmarks

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •