Is Bush On His Way Out?

[Rat Faced]

Im not taking sides here.

The UK police use pepper spray too.

Although i'm sure its abused by a minority, i'm also sure the majority of the Police in both countries use the crap sparingly (although the US Police may use it quicker due to the likelyhood of Arms being used etc.) and not at all unless needed.

As you have pointed out, using it indoors will magnify its affects, as it will not be dispursed as quickly...even here though, im sure that the hostages would rather be hit by a couple of canisters of Tear Gas than a couple of magaizines of bullets (US senario). The likelyhood of a "Lethal Dose" of Tear Gas is much less than a lethal dose of "Lead"....

I'm not getting on a moral highground re: CS, Tear Gas or Pepper Spray.. although they all have risks. I would get on my "Moral Highground" over the use of a fentanyl derivative however...but as the USA hasnt started using this crap then it would hardly be worth it, i'll leave that to the US citizens if and when

For crowd control/dispersment, i still think the Fire Brigade have the best equipment....cold water does wonders to disperse an angry mob

[j2k4]

Originally posted by Rat Faced@17 November 2003 - 13:36
For crowd control/dispersment, i still think the Fire Brigade have the best equipment....cold water does wonders to disperse an angry mob

I think this last, regardless of it's utility, has been dispensed with as "cruel and unusual", since it was used to quell race riots once upon a time, and as such is looked at as "non-PC".

[DL.]

Originally posted by Rat Faced@17 November 2003 - 17:36

Im not taking sides here.


(although the US Police may use it quicker due to the likelyhood of Arms being used etc.)


would rather be hit by a couple of canisters of Tear Gas than a couple of magaizines of bullets  (US senario). The likelyhood of a "Lethal Dose" of Tear Gas is much less than a lethal dose of "Lead"....

How typically UK of you.
It surprises me just how offensive you people have become in such a short time. Or was it just better hidden in the past?

Bigotry and possibly racism is what I read here.

Repeatedly.

I wonder if you might all have been a bit more well mannered if your law enforcement had the use of firearms. It must be wonderfull growing up in a country that allows you to run rampant and rude without the slightest consequence.

It's no wonder your little islands can no longer dominate the world as you once tried to, with much bloodier results and for a much longer period than anything the US has done.

Context is a bitch isn't it?

[Rat Faced]

Erm, no...just facts of life, due to the nature of the 2 countries.

Im bloody sure that if it was likely that someone i was aprehending was armed, then i'd be quicker off the mark with pepper spray than if it was extremely unlikely...

I'm quite willing to expand it to include many other countries...however as the discourse was with an American, i was using our 2 countries as reference points. The last point...I was talking of hostages in the US...where Tear Gas is likely to be used, where possible, prior to any SWAT team going in. I think the hostages would rather that happen, dont you?

I think you should re-read the post...

Where does "Racism" come into the equation?

I believe the USA has as mixed a cultural heritage as the UK, with just about every "Race" being well represented there....

[J'Pol]

I have a simple view on the matter.

If people are rioting in the streets of my city (whether they call it a demonstration, protest or whatever) I expect the Police to put a stop to it. No matter how many people are involved in the riot they are as naught compared to the size and rights of the innocent John Q Publics who are quietly going about their business. Or at least attempting to.

If their rioting causes the streets to be congested then we need to get them moved quickly. So as not to prevent the emergency services doing what they do. With another nod to John Q who has every right to make his way about the city without fear.


If they are vandalising the place then they lose any sympathy I have for their cause and if the Police need to use weapons to disperse them, then so be it. They are no better than common hooligans and should be treated as such.

If they wish to make a peaceful demonstration, working in co-operation with the local authorities and the Police, then more power to their elbow I say.

My bottom line, if they act like reasonable people, treat them as such. If they act like thugs ....

[j2k4]

Originally posted by J'Pol@17 November 2003 - 17:30
I have a simple view on the matter.

If people are rioting in the streets of my city (whether they call it a demonstration, protest or whatever) I expect the Police to put a stop to it. No matter how many people are involved in the riot they are as naught compared to the size and rights of the innocent John Q Publics who are quietly going about their business. Or at least attempting to.

If their rioting causes the streets to be congested then we need to get them moved quickly. So as not to prevent the emergency services doing what they do. With another nod to John Q who has every right to make his way about the city without fear.


If they are vandalising the place then they lose any sympathy I have for their cause and if the Police need to use weapons to disperse them, then so be it. They are no better than common hooligans and should be treated as such.

If they wish to make a peaceful demonstration, working in co-operation with the local authorities and the Police, then more power to their elbow I say.

My bottom line, if they act like reasonable people, treat them as such. If they act like thugs ....

A simple view indeed, and a paragon of reason.

Thank you, J'Pol.

[Billy_Dean]

Originally posted by DL.@18 November 2003 - 04:10
How typically UK of you.
It surprises me just how offensive you people have become in such a short time. Or was it just better hidden in the past?

Bigotry and possibly racism is what I read here.

Repeatedly.

I wonder if you might all have been a bit more well mannered if your law enforcement had the use of firearms. It must be wonderfull growing up in a country that allows you to run rampant and rude without the slightest consequence.

It's no wonder your little islands can no longer dominate the world as you once tried to, with much bloodier results and for a much longer period than anything the US has done.

Context is a bitch isn't it?

I'm always wary of posts that begin with lines like "I don't want to offend anyone here" as they invariably go on to do just that.

Then along comes an idiot calling himself DL. His first comment is "How typically UK of you", then goes on to run the whole of the UK down.

He then goes on to say "Bigotry and possibly racism is what I read here. " That's right you arsehole, from you

It must be wonderfull growing up in a country that allows you to run rampant and rude without the slightest consequence.

Yes thank you, it is, it's called Freedom of Speech.

It's no wonder your little islands can no longer dominate the world as you once tried to, with much bloodier results and for a much longer period than anything the US has done.

No comment needed there!

Context is a bitch isn't it?

That's right, irony is too eh?

This forum has plenty of intelligent, helpful and likeable Americans who are quite capable of discussing and defending their ideals and their country, they don't need idiots like you.

[DL.]

A little reversal goes a long way. Got a mirror handy? Oh you're a wonderfull representative!

Very much loved here

You sir or madam are exactly what I was refering to, rude and proud of it by your own admission.

Actualy, we do have one thing in common.

Yes, when I come across people like you, I too wish all cats had been killed. Before bringing the rat population and bubonic plague under control so many years ago.

[Billy_Dean]

I'm rude you prick, go read your own posts!

I wonder how many of your fellow countrymen will come and defend you.

[DL.]

About as many as might defend you I suspect.

We aren't too different in that respect then are we?

Anyway,

On the topic of Bush, I don't recall him being a part of your political system.
I can live with it if he is reelected. You all may not like the way he gets things done but at least he is making the effort.
Maybe it would have been more honest to come right out and say there was an absolute need to position themselves strategically in the arab world before it got even more out of control instead of the reasons they did use. That would have been politically incorrect though wouldn't it? Where's your freedom of speech when it's worth something?

1942 saw the US taking a lot of shit as well. For not coming to the rescue of the world sooner.
Now you bitch and complain when we act preemptively. What are we to do?