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Thread: Giganews DMCA Rampage: Embrace 100% data loss.

  1. #41
    Thanks for that reply. When people descend to posting nothing but personal abuse I know they know they've lost their argument.

  2. Newsgroups   -   #42
    mjmacky's Avatar an alchemist?
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    Quote Originally Posted by temisturk View Post
    When people descend to posting nothing but personal abuse
    Personal abuse or wordplay, you've misread the context... you need to keep up Mr. K. Just because you haven't conceded defeat doesn't mean you didn't already lose the debate. Now we are having post debate drinks and tomfoolery.



    Also, no one responding to my allegations in post 12 makes me think they never read my posts or that they must be true.
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  3. Newsgroups   -   #43
    Now I'm just confused.

  4. Newsgroups   -   #44
    Quote Originally Posted by temisturk View Post
    What I'm saying is that if you pay money to a company on the internet to protect yourself from hostile eyes, you are making an assumption that the company will act in good faith now and in the future and that it will not buckle to any pressure. And I'm saying that pressure can be applied to any sort of company and that some of them will buckle. And I don't know why you all keep insisting that every VPN keeps detailed logs of everything that people download from them and hands them over to the copyright police at the drop of a hat and that no Usenet company anywhere in the world ever has or ever will log anything and they'll all literally blow up their computer rooms before they would ever turn anything over to anybody. Especially when usenet companies actually host copyrighted content on their servers and accept money from people to download it which is exactly what companies like megaupload do and they're coming under very heavy legal fire at the moment, far more than any vpn provider has (because vpn providers only provide a conduit so there is no grounds to sue them for anything).
    Usenet providers are protected by DMCA safeharbor provisions. Not responsible for content thats posted as long as they make reasonable efforts to comply with DMCA takedowns. VPNs have the same protection, but you'll get your account canceled in the process for attracting abuse complaints. (Assuming that you're using a VPN that cares about abuse complaints of that nature).

    No usenet provider is going to track downloads since the logging itself would take too much space. Even if they're logging what IPs are connecting and nothing else, I doubt they keep it longer than a few days. Also, what would be the point of logging who downloads what? Takes space that can be used for actual usenet posts. Serves no point.
    Last edited by cola; 12-04-2011 at 05:10 AM.

  5. Newsgroups   -   #45
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    I took back my hasty quip about temisturk's self-admitted excretory distress. (maybe I need sensitivity training?)

    Quote Originally Posted by temisturk View Post
    Now I'm just confused.
    I think many of us noticed that a long time ago.

    If you're going to continue to insist that an illegal act carried out in public view (i.e. torrenting) is no riskier than a legal** act done in private (usenet downloading) then there's probably not much more we can say to try to convince you otherwise.

    **I'll concede that the act of (strictly) downloading copyrighted content is unlawful in a very few countries such as Japan, so usenet downloading (from an in-country server) might be less safe in those countries. But that's not the case here.

  6. Newsgroups   -   #46
    Quote Originally Posted by cola View Post
    usenet providers are protected by dmca safeharbor provisions. Not responsible for content thats posted as long as they make reasonable efforts to comply with dmca takedowns. Vpns have the same protection, but you'll get your account canceled in the process for attracting abuse complaints. (assuming that you're using a vpn that cares about abuse complaints of that nature).
    Well we already know from the evidence supplied by usenet supporters in this very thread that supernews, newsdemon, highwinds and giganews "care about complaints of that nature" but I've never seen any report of a VPN which does so.

    So do you have any evidence to support your accusation or are you just clutching at straws?

    Quote Originally Posted by cola View Post
    No usenet provider is going to track downloads since the logging itself would take too much space. Even if they're logging what ips are connecting and nothing else, i doubt they keep it longer than a few days. Also, what would be the point of logging who downloads what? Takes space that can be used for actual usenet posts. Serves no point.
    If it "serves no point" for usenet providers to do so then it serves no point for VPN providers to do so. QED.

    Quote Originally Posted by zot View Post
    If you're going to continue to insist that an illegal act carried out in public view (i.e. Torrenting) is no riskier than a legal** act done in private (usenet downloading) then there's probably not much more we can say to try to convince you otherwise.
    If you're going to start insisting that the mere use of BitTorrent is inherently and globally illegal and will inevitably result in criminal or civil sanctions even when one's identity is being shielded by a VPN provider (whose entire business model is based solely on that shielding) and that the use of Usenet is inherently and globally legal and can never possibly result in any sanctions then you're right--nobody can trust you to even follow the debate let alone contribute anything sensible to it.

  7. Newsgroups   -   #47
    mjmacky's Avatar an alchemist?
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    Quote Originally Posted by temisturk View Post
    Well we already know from the evidence supplied by usenet supporters in this very thread that supernews, newsdemon, highwinds and giganews "care about complaints of that nature" but I've never seen any report of a VPN which does so.

    So do you have any evidence to support your accusation or are you just clutching at straws?

    If it "serves no point" for usenet providers to do so then it serves no point for VPN providers to do so. QED.

    If you're going to start insisting that the mere use of BitTorrent is inherently and globally illegal and will inevitably result in criminal or civil sanctions even when one's identity is being shielded by a VPN provider (whose entire business model is based solely on that shielding) and that the use of Usenet is inherently and globally legal and can never possibly result in any sanctions then you're right--nobody can trust you to even follow the debate let alone contribute anything sensible to it.
    If this is what you are saying in response, that means you are still very confused about both how Usenet works and how it's completely different than VPN. All the information that would un-confuse you is contained in this thread, but here's something supplementary (with explanation). It's a privacy policy of a VPN service:

    Quote Originally Posted by HideMyAssPrivacyPolicy
    VPN connection:
    What data we collect: We will store a time stamp and IP address when you connect and disconnect to our Site. We do not store details of, or monitor, web traffic data for each VPN session, including but not limited to, details of website URL's you have visited or the protocols you have used.
    Why we need this data: We do this so that we can monitor the performance of our Site, for example it enables us to sort server nodes by the amount of Users connected, to limit your account to one concurrent IP address per VPN connection (to prevent abuse and shared accounts), resource analytics (to carry out usage graphing for administrative purposes). We reserve the right to store this data on our system for up to two years unless we are required, for legal reasons or under exceptional circumstances, to retain this data for an extended period.
    What you need to notice here is that they retain who you are and which IP addresses you've used for the past 2 years. They do not log your activity, and even if they did, that's not what gets you into trouble. A DMCA investigator would already know your ACTIVITY from monitoring a torrent, all they need from the VPN is your identity. And you would find in the privacy policies of many VPN providers that they do log your identity and comply with legal requests.
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  8. Newsgroups   -   #48
    @temisturk - Don't know if this helps, but if your looking for evidence and proof positive of how it is so much easier to get caught torrenting over VPN take a look here - Giganews has been handing out IPs of anyone has been torrenting through their VPN because the copyright mafia have been able to collect enough visible information of download activity through the torrent - then all they need is the identity of the torrent offender and apparently for Giganews that is no problem
    Digital World...You can't handle the Digital World! What did your Mom buy you a PUTER for Christmas!
    http://usenetgeeks.com

  9. Newsgroups   -   #49
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    Temisturk's argument (as I understand it) is that all the VPNs that claim not to keep logs are 100% trustworthy, and when put to the test, would choose to fall on their swords rather than betray a customer's faith.

    Those inclined to believe this theory might want to recall that a few years ago the US telecommunications companies were all willing to let the NSA conduct massive wiretaps (basically entire trunks were recorded) on customers' telephone lines without a warrant -- an action which was absolutely illegal under the Foreign Intelligence Surveillance Act (FISA) and other laws.

    But despite numerous examples of companies willing to break not just promises, but even to outright break the law when pressured by authorities, temisturk wants us to believe that VPNs are somehow different: i.e., no VPN that promises anonymity (even those that put it in writing in their TOS contract) would ever -even if up against extreme pressure and legal threats- secretly log users and turn them in, therefore breaking both its promises and its TOS contract --which unlike warrant-less wiretapping, is not a criminal offense.
    Last edited by zot; 12-06-2011 at 06:48 PM.

  10. Newsgroups   -   #50
    Just wanted to bash GN a bit more... lol


    as a heavy uploader my main complaint about giganews\supernews is not really DMCA(if we dont take into account console games that is, if it gets worse on the other hand... well..)... but the sad fact that they actively pursue on behalf of copyright mafia those ones who upload stuff

    At first you have posting privileges suspended until you log in to your control panel and click somewhere stating that you wont do that anymore.

    If you get caught the second time then either you account get completely blocked or posting privileges banned forever


    this happened several times to me( i used temporary CC to register)

    one account was totally blocked, other two were deprived of posting privileges
    Last edited by Hypatia; 12-06-2011 at 08:47 PM.

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