Euro 2012

[manker]

Wait, what. You said they didn't take the friendly games seriously. I didn't watch them, I only know they didn't score, but I guess now you're saying that they did take them seriously right?
That being the case and, as you say, they decided to play attacking football - it doesn't appear to have worked out for them.

they didnt give a fuck about the results but it at least gave an idea of the evolution of their football.

anyway, i didn't mean they became an attacking team like magic but that they tended to play a more offensive football and take more risk to score... unlike england that, on the other hand, is a true defensive team.

do you guys watched the england-italy game ? see what i'm talking about now ?

It seems I did previously:
"Sure, the midfielders, Pirlo in particular, played some decent stuff. But he always has done. Italy's defensive integrity was paramount and then they let their more talented players try to take the game forward. It's always been so."
That's what they did against England. Italy were far superior, especially in midfield.


England were terrible and ultra-defensive except for the first 25 minutes. it was kindof embarrassing to watch that last half hour. I wasn't sorry to see them lose on penalties.

[IdolEyes787]

they didnt give a fuck about the results but it at least gave an idea of the evolution of their football.

anyway, i didn't mean they became an attacking team like magic but that they tended to play a more offensive football and take more risk to score... unlike england that, on the other hand, is a true defensive team.

do you guys watched the england-italy game ? see what i'm talking about now ?

It seems I did previously:
"Sure, the midfielders, Pirlo in particular, played some decent stuff. But he always has done. Italy's defensive integrity was paramount and then they let their more talented players try to take the game forward. It's always been so."
That's what they did against England. Italy were far superior, especially in midfield.


England were terrible and ultra-defensive except for the first 25 minutes. it was kindof embarrassing to watch that last half hour. I wasn't sorry to see them lose on penalties.

"England played a coward's game"..."ran from the Italians for two and a half hours".

http://www.thestar.com/sports/soccer...final-shootout

[manker]

Can't really disagree with the sentiments of the writer of that blog - even if he does write like a twelve year old with no thumbs.

[IdolEyes787]

Can't really disagree with the sentiments of the writer of that blog - even if he does write like a twelve year old with no thumbs.

In Canada that level of literacy is considered genius so fuck off.

[redwhitevision]

Missed for a few days, read just now the comments and I must say the last comment, although off-topic, made the whole discussion funny haha

I'd also like to say that without Xavi, Iniesta and Messi, the style wouldn't work against an especially good counter attacking team. Merely mortal players wouldn't be able to hang onto the ball long enough to negate the threat. Barca weren't all that good with the same style of football when they didn't have these three players. When Xavi and Iniesta retire, Barca will again need to rely upon their wide players much more.

I don't really agree with what you said, of course these 3 players are paramount for Barcelona, very talented, probably the best in the world in their positions. But there are very many young players that Pep promoted, many others before too, in fact, their Academy is top, if not the best, one of the best in the world for sure.

Besides, Messi is only 25 and I don't think Barca is planning to sell him, I also like Alexis Sanchez, among the younger ones Thiago Alcantara, Tello, Cuenca and others. They seemed to blend in almost perfectly in the over-all game style and this, plus the fact that I'm sure there are still youngsters waiting to make the big step towards the first team, makes me think that unless they want to change the game style, it's almost certain that it won't die once those players retire.

Of course these are only suppositions, we'll just have to see how it turns out.

@cinephilia - didn't have the chance to watch the whole game because of bad timing of a phone call from work, thing which I didn't really regret because both teams had a bad game in my opinion.
Of course England played even worse, but seeing Balotelli missing at least 4 chances wasn't that entertaining, I wonder how you were living that moment if it was annoying for the rest of us. About the final result, won at penalties, still nothing spectacular, congrats for the result but there's not much to be proud about winning against the brits.

[manker]

Missed for a few days, read just now the comments and I must say the last comment, although off-topic, made the whole discussion funny haha

I'd also like to say that without Xavi, Iniesta and Messi, the style wouldn't work against an especially good counter attacking team. Merely mortal players wouldn't be able to hang onto the ball long enough to negate the threat. Barca weren't all that good with the same style of football when they didn't have these three players. When Xavi and Iniesta retire, Barca will again need to rely upon their wide players much more.

I don't really agree with what you said, of course these 3 players are paramount for Barcelona, very talented, probably the best in the world in their positions. But there are very many young players that Pep promoted, many others before too, in fact, their Academy is top, if not the best, one of the best in the world for sure.

Besides, Messi is only 25 and I don't think Barca is planning to sell him, I also like Alexis Sanchez, among the younger ones Thiago Alcantara, Tello, Cuenca and others. They seemed to blend in almost perfectly in the over-all game style and this, plus the fact that I'm sure there are still youngsters waiting to make the big step towards the first team, makes me think that unless they want to change the game style, it's almost certain that it won't die once those players retire.

Of course these are only suppositions, we'll just have to see how it turns out.

@cinephilia - didn't have the chance to watch the whole game because of bad timing of a phone call from work, thing which I didn't really regret because both teams had a bad game in my opinion.
Of course England played even worse, but seeing Balotelli missing at least 4 chances wasn't that entertaining, I wonder how you were living that moment if it was annoying for the rest of us. About the final result, won at penalties, still nothing spectacular, congrats for the result but there's not much to be proud about winning against the brits.

I was actually pretty impressed with Italy. I doubt they'll beat Germany but they deserve their place as one of the best four teams in Europe, imo.
Cinephilia was probably onto something when he said that they were more attacking now as they did create a lot more chances than I'm used to them creating. More and more, it seemed, the deeper they went into the tournament.
If they had someone like Vieri or Inzaghi up top, they'd be formidable, indeed.

They're still defensive minded but that's hardly a crime and also something that would be hard to stamp out of the players' dna just because one coach decides to try something different.

re; Barca. They've had the same academy for decades and it this is basically the first time they've ever dominated so completely. Sure, Messi will still be there after the other two go, but he looks like a different player for Argentina. Mediocre isn't a word you'd normally associate with him but I've only seen him have one good game for them - and that was their last one against Brazil.

I don't think Barca's younger players will be anywhere near the level of the current stars, certainly not the ones you mention. If they were that good, then he wouldn't have pursued Fabregas for so long since he is approximately half the player either Xavi or Iniesta is. Also, I wasn't saying that the system would stop once Xavi and Iniesta retired, I said it would be less effective - which it definitely will be. Those two (plus the genius of Messi) make the system almost perfect, with inferior players they will be eminently beatable.



This is, anyway, what I'm hoping

[redwhitevision]

If they had someone like Vieri or Inzaghi up top, they'd be formidable, indeed.

With all those 4 (or more) chances that Balotelli had, Inzaghi would have scored 5 times.

[cinephilia]

@cinephilia - didn't have the chance to watch the whole game because of bad timing of a phone call from work, thing which I didn't really regret because both teams
had a bad game in my opinion.
Of course England played even worse, but seeing Balotelli missing at least 4 chances wasn't that entertaining, I wonder how you were living that moment if it was annoying for the rest of us.
About the final result, won at penalties, still nothing spectacular, congrats for the result but there's not much to be proud about winning against the brits.

huh? are you for real? this was by far the best game out of the four quarter finals, a high-level match ending with 35 shoots and 837 passes for italy (probably a record at this stage of the competition).
i mean, what more did you expect ??? or are you saying it was not entertaining because there were no goals ? if so, i can tell without a doubt that you can't be anything but an occasional football spectator.
england may not be brilliant, it's still an annoying team that has great players in its ranks such as steven gerrard, ashley cole, john terry, lescott or wayne rooney. italy did the job and did it well, always trying to score and go forward even in the extra time. this new italy play a great football and can be proud of what they achieved so far.

They're still defensive minded but that's hardly a crime and also something that would be hard to stamp out of the players' dna just because one coach decides to try something different.

it's not in the players dna but in the philosophy. the coach takes the players that he knows will fit in his tactical system, that's all. even the serie A is changing and a few teams played occasionally in a offensive 3-5-2 formation this season. and it doesn't seem to disturb anyone even tho you need time to adapt.


edit : i invite you to read this short article about prandelli's work http://www.football-italia.net/20424...lis-revolution

[manker]

I didn't mean literally in their DNA. I know it's much to do with how the coach tells the players to play.
However, it's also to do with the players' psychology and what they're used to - which is to be defensive as I imagine that the overwhelming majority of coaches each of those players will have worked with will have instilled a defensive mindset.

So even though Prandelli might be urging them to abandon this, it won't come easily.
I think we actually agree on this :]

Also, I'll definitely read that article.

[redwhitevision]

huh? are you for real? this was by far the best game out of the four quarter finals, a high-level match ending with 35 shoots and 837 passes for italy (probably a record at this stage of the competition).
i mean, what more did you expect ??? or are you saying it was not entertaining because there were no goals ? if so, i can tell without a doubt that you can't be anything but an occasional football spectator.
england may not be brilliant, it's still an annoying team that has great players in its ranks such as steven gerrard, ashley cole, john terry, lescott or wayne rooney. italy did the job and did it well, always trying to score and go forward even in the extra time. this new italy play a great football and can be proud of what they achieved so far.

Uhm, I don't think you understood me right. Although it's just 1 game, yes they did attack, I didn't say it was a bad attacking game for the team, I said it was boring to see every attack finishing with a miss from Balotelli. I mean like seriously. Besides, having all those chances and missing every single one, you believe to be a good game? How ? Don't jump into conclusions saying that I'm nothing more than an "occasional football spectator", judge your team critically and blame their inefficiency in front of the goal, which with your help and the statistical numbers you provided is "too damn high". Don't take like everything personal, it's not the case.