How Far Does The Whole Universe Go?

[Barbarossa]

Originally posted by james_bond_rulez@19 December 2003 - 10:54
i dont need a source it's a proven fact

using doppler effect (the light spectrum) scientists were able to determine the light emitted from the stars are getting from violet to red (far to near)

i guess you dont watch nova channels or discovery channel they've got some wonder documentaries on this topic

I realise I'm getting a bit high-brow for the lounge, but here's a couple more points for you to duck under as they fly straight over your head..

1. The doppler effect is produced when objects are seen (or heard) to be moving with respect to the frame of reference of the observer (i.e. you or me). When objects are moving towards the observer then the spectrum is "blueshifted", i.e. observed at a shorter wavelength. When objects are moving away from the observer then the spectrum is "redshifted", i.e. observed at a longer wavelength. This effect can be observed every day by listening to police sirens, when the police car is moving towards you the sound is of a higher pitch than when it is moving away from you.

With respect to the light of stars and galaxies, the light has been observed to be all redshifted, which means the objects in question are moving away from us, implying that the universe is expanding.

2. No, I don't watch those channels, I read books, and studied astronomy at university, it might have been over a decade ago now but I hope I've remembered enough to explain this to you adequately.

Of course, the universe may have done a u-turn within the last 10 years which I'm not aware of, but then again, I don't think so...

[james_bond_rulez]

http://www.angelfire.com/ca6/aliou/expanduniverse.htm

http://www.astro.queensu.ca/~hanes/p014/No....html#why%20not

there are conflicting views on this so i am not sure if the universe is expanding or shrinking

the big bang is called in question and there are proof that the redshift is not explaining why the universe is not expanding either.

so i dunno

[james_bond_rulez]

barbarossa wow you have an astronomy degree? how is that working out for ya?

u work in an observatory? can i visit?

[Barbarossa]

http://www.angelfire.com/ca6/aliou/expanduniverse.htm

Personally, I think there needs to be more explanation of the following statements:

Most astronomer agree that the Universe is not a Euclidean

Almost all astronomy agrees that the Universe is not Euclidean space

From the evident we have so far most agree it is not a Euclidean space


F. CONCLUSION

In my opinion, "LIOU'S STRETCH EFFECT" in the Hyperbolic Universe with curvature is more reasonable than the DOPPLER EFFECT in the Euclidean Universe

Also..

If there is no expansion of the Universe, there is no Big Bang.

..without a big bang it's kind of hard to explain the 3 degree background radiation (observed) and the presence of deuterium in the centre of stars (big bang is the only known natural source of deuterium)

[Barbarossa]

Originally posted by james_bond_rulez@19 December 2003 - 11:17
barbarossa wow you have an astronomy degree? how is that working out for ya?

u work in an observatory? can i visit?

I said I studied astronomy, I didn't say I passed.....

[james_bond_rulez]

hmm fasinating, deuterium...

Deuterium
Deuterium, stable, nonradioactive isotope of hydrogen with atomic weight 2.01363 and symbol D, or 2H. It is commonly called heavy hydrogen because its atomic weight is approximately double that of ordinary hydrogen, but it has identical chemical properties. Deuterium has about twice the atomic weight of normal hydrogen because its nucleus contains a proton and a neutron, instead of just a proton.Hydrogen as it occurs in nature contains approximately 0.02 percent of deuterium. The boiling point of deuterium is -249.49° C (-417.08° F), or 3.28° C (5.90° F) higher than that of ordinary hydrogen. Heavy water (deuterium oxide, D2O) boils at 101.42° C (214.56° F) as compared to 100° C (212° F), the boiling point of ordinary water. It freezes at 3.81° C (38.86° F) as compared to 0° C (32° F) for ordinary water. Its density at room temperature is 10.79 percent greater than that of ordinary water.

Deuterium, which was discovered by the American chemist Harold Urey and his associates in 1932, was the first isotope to be separated in a pure form from an element. Several methods have been used to separate the isotope from natural hydrogen. The two processes that have been most successful have been fractional distillation of water and a catalytic exchange process between hydrogen and water. In the latter system, when water and hydrogen are brought together in the presence of a suitable catalyst, about three times as much deuterium appears in the water as in hydrogen. Deuterium has also been concentrated by electrolysis, centrifuging, and fractional distillation of liquid hydrogen.

The nuclei of deuterium atoms, called deuterons, are much used in research in physics because they can be readily accelerated by cyclotrons and similar machines and used as “atomic bullets” to transform an atom of one element into another element. Deuterium also has important uses in biological research as a tracer element for studying problems of metabolism (see Isotopic Tracer).

Regular hydrogen and deuterium are not normally metallic, meaning they are not shiny or malleable. Scientists have used pressure and heat, however, to force deuterium to act like a metal, making it shinier and easier to compress. In 1998, scientists announced that they had used lasers to shock a sample of deuterium, compressing it and heating it enough that it behaved like a metal. Studying deuterium in these conditions can help scientists understand how hydrogen behaves in the hot, heavily pressurized interiors of planets such as Jupiter and Saturn and in the interiors of stars such as our Sun.

The use of heavy water as a moderator in atomic piles was suggested during World War II but in the first U.S. piles, graphite was employed instead (see Nuclear Energy). Deuterium, either in deuterium oxide or in lithium deuteride (LiD), and tritium are essential components of nuclear fusion weapons, or hydrogen bombs (see Nuclear Weapons).


Microsoft ® Encarta ® Reference Library 2004. © 1993-2003 Microsoft Corporation. All rights reserved.

[Barbarossa]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Deuterium

The existence of deuterium in stars is one of the arguments in favour of the big bang theory over the steady state theory. Stellar fusion destroys deuterium and there are no known processes other than the big bang itself which produce deuterium.

[james_bond_rulez]

ok wtf i went into the forum to check on a few thing why am i hooked in this topic?

damn u barbarossa i was reading porn.....

now back to business

[Snee]

Originally posted by muchspl2@18 December 2003 - 11:45

Also, according to M-Theory, M-space would be a type of Makroverse, containing a large or infinite number of parallel universes, it's been said that anything that could possibly happen, happens somewhere.

According to that theory, forces that are comparably weak in this universe, are actually derived from other universes. In the instance of gravity, for example, it is believed that we "leech" it off from another universe we are connected to (through a quantuum-tunnel?). A concept, derived from, I think, the Earlier "Super-Gravity" theory, which also accounts for an extra dimension.

And like I've written before, our universe is believed to be a sort of membrane- the former superstrings have now become this membrane- models I've seen have shown this membrane in a globular or spherical shape, giving me the impression of a curved universe.

It's been said that M-theory is the closest yet to a "theory of everything".

However, there's also the matter of the holographic universe, I believe it is Hawking that has said that no information is ever lost in the universe. For this to be true, black holes have to be holographic, but for black holes to be holographic alone makes no sense.

Since there is a limit to the degree of compression possible on the surface of a black hole, as all information absorbed by the black hole has to be stored on the surface (Information here meaning the structure and composition of everything absorbed, I believe, this is however unclear to mean as I've only just become aware of the theory). Therefore it has been put forth that the entire universe is, holographic, and in essence a projection of something flat where all information the universe contains is constant, or something.

There may be more edges to the universe than we think.

There are of course other ways to look at the universe as well, though some seem less likely to me.

[bigboab]

Though I believe in principle, what you say Snny, I do not agree in its entirety.