Usa And It's Influence.

[hobbes]

I really get so sick of USA bashing when it all comes down to impotent nations pretending that they are somehow different, when, in fact, they would be no different from the USA if they had the ability.

When an uncontested super power appears upon the Earth you will know it by this sign, the impotent will join in a confederacy against it.

Really, it is simple human psychology. All men/nations want autonomy over their lives, their destiny. When this is removed, it causes unrest, anger, and resentment.

Like all the low level workers who gather in the break room talking about how stupid their boss is, slapping each other on the back and laughing. They discredit any achievements of the boss as a ruse to mask their impotence. They demean the boss and his integrity. They wouldn't be caught dead being such an ass kissing low life as their boss who was obviously pandered to all his live.

The Boss acts without caring about others. Yeah, like any country, ever, has passed up something to strengthen itself because it wouldn't be "nice". Humans are humans.

So all I see is anger and specious moral high ground acting as a facade to mask fear and impotence.

[leftism]

Originally posted by hobbes
I really get so sick of USA bashing when it all comes down to impotent nations pretending that they are somehow different, when, in fact, they would be no different from the USA if they had the ability

Lets say another hypothetical superpower was overthrowing governments and supporting coups etc etc.

Would you defend their right to do so? US citizens dont have to support these actions but many do. Either that or they cast them aside as irrelevancies that have no bearing on the current global situation. I've always held the belief that if you want to fix a problem you have to understand what caused it in the first place. In my experience most Americans are not prepared to do this when it comes to their Governments foreign policy.

I think you'll find its often frustration at this attitude that drives, what you perceive, as USA bashing. I think the rest of us just cant understand why your governments wrongdoings are such a sore point with many of you. We'll happily criticise our own Governments all day long should the need arise, and if jonny foreigner wants to join in with fair criticism we dont seem to take it to heart as severely as many Americans do.

I could bring up loads of other issues relating to this subject but its getting late, and I can see it getting extremely hot in here within 10 minutes so I think I'll make a quick exit

[hobbes]

I don't even support our right to do so, just talking about a political reality which would be done by any country which could.

I want to dissect out what is unique to American policies over those of the rest of the world.

My conclusion: nothing but the ability to achieve them.

[leftism]

Originally posted by hobbes+--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td>QUOTE (hobbes)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'>I want to dissect out what is unique to American policies over those of the rest of the world.

My conclusion: nothing but the ability to achieve them[/b]

And if another country had the ability to achieve them we would be criticising them too. I dont see whats so unfair about it to be honest.

If it were my country instead of yours I wouldnt be at all bothered by the criticism, I&#39;d probably feel more comfortable joining in too because then I couldnt be accused of being anti-myowncountry

edit:

<!--QuoteBegin-hobbes
I don&#39;t even support our right to do so[/quote]

But many of your fellow countrymen do. I genuinely dont think you&#39;d get this with other countries. We dont seem to take criticism of our Gvts as personally as many American citizens do.

[vidcc]

ok , but if you look at what you said (is there an echo in here) you just insulted every other country apart from the usa..impotant...which is just the kind of attitude that makes everyone bash the usa at any given chance.we need the rest of the world and just because we have more WMD than anyone else doesn&#39;t make us better.
we constantly tell the world we are better than them and that we have power, well with power comes responsibility and if we are perceived as abusing that power then we will draw criticism. Unfortunately some of the criticism comes in the form badly thought out personal attacks. Many people lump all americans into one heap in their attacks just as many americans lump all the middle eastern peoples as being bad
i&#39;m kind of glad that the rest of the world is vocal because it acts like a conscience so we don&#39;t get too above ourselves and start thinking we are God.
i fully understand how you feel, this board is mostly western Europeans where americans although considered allies are also perceived as being arrogant bullies.
in most cases the attacks aren&#39;t anything personally directed at you even though it seems like it is. That said some of the Americans on the board haven&#39;t helped our cause and it all ends up with a shooting match off topic...pity really because some of the topics are worthy of proper debate.
no doubt this one will draw a lot of insults...you used one of my post as an example but i think this one will outdo mine but a long way lol

[hobbes]

I only take offense when people pretend that what is going on is uniquely American, the specious moral high ground.

You know that I am pretty open in my expression of my opinions as my posts on invading Iraq demonstrate.

Criticism about cruel and unique actions are well appreciated, criticism based on jealously and impotence are pathetic.

[leftism]

Originally posted by hobbes
Criticism about cruel and unique actions are well appreciated, criticism based on jealously and impotence are pathetic.

Speaking from experience a sizeable proportion of your fellow Americans are simply unable or unwilling to make that distinction.

[hobbes]

Originally posted by leftism+11 January 2004 - 06:39--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td>QUOTE (leftism &#064; 11 January 2004 - 06:39)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteBegin-hobbes
Criticism about cruel and unique actions are well appreciated, criticism based on jealously and impotence are pathetic.

Speaking from experience a sizeable proportion of your fellow Americans are simply unable or unwilling to make that distinction.[/b][/quote]
As are most citizens of any country. Again I go back to what is unique about Americans.

But, more seriously. I can fully appreciate how morons can irritate the world with their idiotic gung - ho mentality.

As an individual, I don&#39;t know how to stop this barrage of idiocy, but I hate being placed in the same category as these dolts.

People are people, and unfortunately, all countries have their share of inflammatory idiots.

[vidcc]

Hobbes

but without being in the mind of the poster can you say how the reason for the critcism is motivated ?
again i do get entirely your point...many people don&#39;t give justification for the critic but instead just throw insults.
i have heard the arguement that the usa is attacked out of jealousy many times..trust me we are not looked upon with envy as we might think we are and many times, to use your analogy, it&#39;s not that we are resented because we are the boss but because we think we are and people are rightly telling us we are not. the world is much more powerful than the usa on its own.
and as for impotence...well didn&#39;t GW just take us to war to stop a country doing just what the usa wants to do...have power?...so with our guns and ammunition we are just as guilty of bashing oursleves.

gosh you started a good topic here..i doubt it will be able to maintain intelligent debate but it cetainly deserves it from whatever side of the fence one sits

[leftism]

Originally posted by hobbes
As are most citizens of any country. Again I go back to what is unique about Americans.

I think this is where we disagree. I dont know why this is the case but you really do seem to be unique in as much that you guys seem to take huge offence at any criticism of your Gvt. I mean fair criticism here too.

Sometimes it seems like the Gvt and the people are synonomous in the USA.

Im not talking about the gung-ho types you mentioned either. I mean decent normal people who seeem to have an uncharacteristically violent reaction to any criticism of US foreign policy.

To us, on the other side of the pond, this just seems really bizarre. We genuinely dont understand it

As an example I think its a commonly held view in Europe that the foreign policy of the US has been a major contributing factor to 9/11. Of course we dont think your citizens deserved that but we dont see why its offensive to link your Gvts actions to it.

I have in the past tried to explain this to various Americans but you just cant seem to seperate the citizens from the government and, inevitably, huge offence is taken.

I hope I&#39;ve explained that reasonably coherently but you have to understand I&#39;m really tired.

PS

Was there any need for you to start a really interesting thread in the early hours of the morning?