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Thread: Intolerance In France

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    Report outrages France's Muslims
    by
    Friday 12 December 2003 2:29 PM GMT


    French Muslims say a hijab ban would be discriminatory


    French Muslims have reacted with anger to an official report which recommends that Islamic headscarves in schools be banned.



    Muslims argued on Friday that they were being targeted by a new tool of discrimination.

    Drawn up by a 20-member committee under former minister Bernard Stasi, the secularity commission report was handed over to President Jacques Chirac on Thursday.

    The key proposal is that "conspicuous" religious insignia such as headscarves, Jewish skull-caps and "large" crosses be prohibited in the classroom.

    Chirac will deliver his verdict on Wednesday, but judging from past pronouncements he seems likely to follow its recommendation to put the ban into law.

    Social disharmony

    However, Muslims have questioned whether a law aimed primarily at the country's five million-strong community could do anything to improve social harmony.


    Stasi also wants skull-caps and
    large crosses banned in schools

    The country's most-visited Islamic Internet site, Oumma.com, issued a blistering rejection of the proposed law, saying it exposed the hypocrisy of a nation supposedly wedded to the principle of free expression.

    "What is happening in France? The country that once elevated reason above all other forms of thought is now beating itself into a frenzy.

    "How could the nation that forged the rights of man descend to such obscurantism? Our 200 year-old republic is shaken by a piece of clothing," it said.

    According to Oumma.com's editorial director Said Branine, ordinary Muslims who grew up in France feel deeply offended by the Stasi committee's recommendations.

    Archaic France

    "This is a law that targets Muslims. Up till recently there were two religions in France. Now there are three, but in typical French fashion the establishment is years, even decades, behind reality.

    "France likes to boast of being 'exceptional.' It's rubbish. France is just archaic."

    He added: "French Muslims are republicans, democrats, secularists. But we also have our Islamic identity transmitted from our parents. We are not going to give it up. To expect us to is a colonial frame of mind."

    "How could the nation that forged the rights of man descend to such obscurantism? Our 200 year-old republic is shaken by a piece of clothing"

    Oumma.com editorial

    Others warned that a headscarf ban would be self-defeating, encouraging the kind of "extremism" that France is trying to combat.

    French establishment

    "My fear is that a law would be seen by the most militant part of the Muslim community as a frontal attack against Islam. We would end up with even more headscarf problems than we have now," said sociologist Jean-Yves Camus of the European Research Centre on Racism and Anti-Semitism.

    But France's leading Islamic cleric, the rector of the Paris mosque Dalil Boubakeur, said he would urge Muslims to obey any law, although he suggested a grace period of several months so that families could get used to the new situation.

    However, as President Jacques Chirac began deliberating the findings, politicians, religious leaders, teachers and editorialists gave a guarded welcome to Thursday's ruling.

    Most French newspapers applauded what they saw as the reassertion of the country's secular identity, with the conservative Le Figaro pronouncing it "is not for the republic to adapt to Islam, but for Islam to adapt to the republic".


    AFP
    By

    You can find this article at:

    http://english.aljazeera.net/NR/exeres/E7B...F3ADDDD487F.htm

  2. The Drawing Room   -   #2
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    I'm in full areement with them T Mkr, all religous trappings should be kept out of school and colleges/universities, they should be kept at home or churches etc.
    where they belong.
    Man U fer eva

  3. The Drawing Room   -   #3
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    If you are banning religious trappings, then you should ban them without discrimation. This not only includes headscarves, small neck-worm duas and burkas, but crosses, yamakas (sp? very sorry if wrong as I am not Jewish), etc.

  4. The Drawing Room   -   #4
    Biggles's Avatar Looking for loopholes
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    Originally posted by haxor41789@18 January 2004 - 01:19
    If you are banning religious trappings, then you should ban them without discrimation. This not only includes headscarves, small neck-worm duas and burkas, but crosses, yamakas (sp? very sorry if wrong as I am not Jewish), etc.
    They have banned all religious trappings in State schools not just Islamic ones.

    However, France is a pretty secular country, so the new rules have little or no impact on non-Muslims. It is still permitted to wear small icons such as crosses, star of David, bracelets etc., as long as they are discrete - i.e. no 6" crosses worn over everday clothing.

    Personally, I think it is a mistake. It merely serves to create a trench mentality in the minds of those who are most affected by the ban. In some ways it is a gift to radicals as they struggle to keep their young to stick with these symbols. They can now sell it not as a rather untrendy clinging to the past but rather as a radical political statement of their heritage. Expect more not less headscarves because of this ruling.
    Cogito cogito ergo cogito sum


  5. The Drawing Room   -   #5
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    I cannot see the point of the ban, who do the "trappings" offend and what is it intended to achieve.

    My one over-riding rule is that a law should apply to everyone. Without fear or favour.

    So if crash helmets are compulsory, then it should be for everyone, whether they wear something else on their head or not. If a photographic driving licence is compulsory, then that is for everyone and matters not a jot whether they want a photograph taken or not.

    In these instances it is simple. If you don't agree you don't get the licence, not a problem. However it is different for schoolchildren. They must be educated, but the state is forcing them to remove something which is deeply significant to them and their families.

    This is not like girls insisting on equal rights to wear trousers ( no offence intended, merely a real life example). This is something which is an integral part of people's belief system and life. I don't understand it myself, but I do accept the depth of feeling of people who do.

    Unless it is deeply offensive to someone else, I see no point in the ban.

  6. The Drawing Room   -   #6
    j2k4's Avatar en(un)lightened
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    If the respective banners of the various religions are not soon taken up, all except the secularists will find life nigh unto intolerable.

    To shift the focus ever so slightly:

    In Chicago, just before Chistmas, a passerby happened to look into the window of a neighborhood firestation and glimpse, deep in the bowels of the building, a Christmas tree and decorations.

    A formal complaint forced the immediate and summary removal of the "offending" items.
    "Researchers have already cast much darkness on the subject, and if they continue their investigations, we shall soon know nothing at all about it."

    -Mark Twain

  7. The Drawing Room   -   #7
    100%'s Avatar ╚════╩═╬════╝
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    I find this whole policy offending and unjust
    and just as provoking as other topics found in this World of news

    Two items on the side
    A French friend told me a few years back that French radios must play atleast 75% Fench music.

    In some local neighbourhood in the UK the local muslim community complained about a woman who had a hobby of collecting ceramic pig sculptures, which she placed in her window - this was seen as very offensive to the muslim community as they had to pass her house on the way to the nearby mosque.
    She removed them from the window but there was ofcourse alot of hubhub

  8. The Drawing Room   -   #8
    clocker's Avatar Shovel Ready
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    Originally posted by j2k4@17 January 2004 - 19:57


    In Chicago, just before Chistmas, a passerby happened to look into the window of a neighborhood firestation and glimpse, deep in the bowels of the building, a Christmas tree and decorations.

    A formal complaint forced the immediate and summary removal of the "offending" items.
    How (or where) did you hear about this, j2?

    It has the ring of "urban legend" about it, to me.
    "I am the one who knocks."- Heisenberg

  9. The Drawing Room   -   #9
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    I totally agree with Biggles and J'Pol.

  10. The Drawing Room   -   #10
    Originally posted by clocker+17 January 2004 - 20:56--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td>QUOTE (clocker @ 17 January 2004 - 20:56)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'> <!--QuoteBegin-j2k4@17 January 2004 - 19:57


    In Chicago, just before Chistmas, a passerby happened to look into the window of a neighborhood firestation and glimpse, deep in the bowels of the building, a Christmas tree and decorations.

    A formal complaint forced the immediate and summary removal of the "offending" items.
    How (or where) did you hear about this, j2?

    It has the ring of "urban legend" about it, to me. [/b][/quote]
    i wonder if all the hard feelings that arise from such incidents wouldn&#39;t be sufficiently ironed out by a few more Jesus Day proclamations per year.

    http://www.snopes.com/religion/jesusday.htm

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