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Thread: Part Of Usa Patriot Act Unconstitutional

  1. #1
    In response to five groups and two US citizens not being able to receive legal counsel while being on trial for helping Kurdish refugees, Judge Audrey Collins declared that portion of the USA PATRIOT act unconstitutional.


    IMHO, this is the first step to the repealment of this unjust law.

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  3. The Drawing Room   -   #2
    Did anyone ever think it was constitutional? The whole we-can-take-you-away-without-a-layer-for-as-long-as-we-want-and-never-tell-anyone thing does seem to go against the "Life, liberty and justice" idea somewhat.

  4. The Drawing Room   -   #3
    Originally posted by Alex H@27 January 2004 - 04:17
    Did anyone ever think it was constitutional? The whole we-can-take-you-away-without-a-layer-for-as-long-as-we-want-and-never-tell-anyone thing does seem to go against the "Life, liberty and justice" idea somewhat.
    I totally agree with you. Saying "rush job" is not an excuse for these terrible laws.

    The Patriot Act:

    Violates the First Amendment freedom of speech guarantee, the provision allowing the right to peaceably assemble, and the provision allowing the right to petition the government for redress of grievances.

    Violates the Fourth Amendment guarantee of probable cause in astonishingly major and repeated ways. The Fourth Amendment to the Constitution reads: "The right of the people to be secure in their persons, houses, papers, and effects, against unreasonable searches and seizures, shall not be violated, and no Warrants shall issue, but upon probable cause, supported by Oath or affirmation, and particularly describing the place to be searched, and the persons of things to be seized." The Patriot Act, now passed and the law of the land, has revoked the necessity for probable cause, and now allows the police, at any time and for any reason, to enter and search your house. Under the act they are not required to even tell you why.

    Violates the Fifth Amendment by allowing for indefinite incarceration without trial for those deemed by the Attorney General to be threats to national security. The Fifth Amendment guarantees that no person shall be deprived of life, liberty or property without due process of law, and the Patriot Act does away with due process. It even allows people to be kept in prison for life without even a trial.

    Violates the Sixth Amendment guarantee of the right to a speedy and public trial. Now you may get no trial at all, ever.

    Violates the Eighth Amendment (cruel and unusual punishment).

    Violates the 13th Amendment (punishment without conviction).

    The following are the ACLU's objections with my italicized comments:
    • It minimizes judicial supervision of telephone and Internet surveillance by law enforcement authorities in anti-terrorism investigations and in routine criminal investigations unrelated to terrorism. Unrelated to terrorism? WTF? More like suppressing dissidents? Ya think?
    • It expands the ability of the government to conduct secret searches in anti-terrorism investigations and in routine criminal investigations unrelated to terrorism. Again...
    • It gives the Attorney General and the Secretary of State the power to designate domestic groups as terrorist organizations and block any non-citizen who belongs to them from entering the country. Under this provision the payment of membership dues is a deportable offense. That means, among other things, that Bush and Ashcroft can decide that even obviously peaceful organizations are terrorists, and under this law, can put them in jail.
    • It grants the FBI broad access to sensitive medical, financial, mental health, and educational records about individuals without having to show evidence of a crime and without a court order. I can't help you if you don't see the danger in this.
    • It could lead to large-scale investigations of American citizens for "intelligence" purposes and use of intelligence authorities to bypass probable cause requirements in criminal cases. PATRIOT authorizes the use of "sneak and peek" search warrants in connection with any federal crime, including misdemeanors. A "sneak and peek" warrant authorizes law enforcement officers to enter private premises without the occupant's permission or knowledge and without informing the occupant that such a search was conducted. This could apply to anyone.
    • It puts the CIA and other intelligence agencies back in the business of spying on Americans by giving the Director of Central Intelligence the authority to identify priority targets for intelligence surveillance in the United States. The Government can monitor an individual's web surfing records, use roving wiretaps to monitor phone calls made by individuals "proximate" to the primary person being tapped, access Internet Service Provider records, and monitor the private records of people involved in legitimate protests. Powers under the existing Foreign Intelligence Surveillance Act (FISA) have been broadened to allow for increased surveillance opportunities. FISA standards are lower than the constitutional standard applied by the courts in regular investigations. PATRIOT partially repeals legislation enacted in the 1970s that prohibited pervasive surveillance of Americans. This can also apply to anyone.
    • It allows searches of highly personal financial records without notice and without judicial review based on a very low standard that does not require probable cause of a crime or even relevancy to an ongoing terrorism investigation. They can do any of this without any reason whatsoever. This is the kind of freedom fascists have always wanted - freedom to put everyone who disagrees with them in jail.
    • It creates a broad new definition of "domestic terrorism" that could sweep in people who engage in acts of political protest and subject them to wiretapping and enhanced penalties. This means they can jail anyone who disagrees with them, and keep them in jail for life without a trial.
    • PATRIOT eliminates Government accountability. While PATRIOT freely eliminates privacy rights for individual Americans, it creates more secrecy for Government activities, making it extremely difficult to know about actions the Government is taking. Surprising?
    And especially since Bush extended FBI powers in 12/03 and is considering the DESA, the USA PATRIOT act would become even more powerful and terrible.

    And with that KL Board members, I bid you a good night.

  5. The Drawing Room   -   #4
    I'm sure that came as no suprise but it was a great tool for a year and I'm sure another one's on the way.

  6. The Drawing Room   -   #5

    PATRIOT 2: The Return of the PATRIOT Act

  7. The Drawing Room   -   #6
    Join Date
    Jun 2003
    Mexico city, México
    Wow! I knew the patriot act was unconstitutional scince it was aproved. Now I know that all you americans are really out of reality...

    BTW, if you read the constitution very carefully, you can notice that it was made for the 'people' that are rich, powerfull and/or landlords...

    The most effective way to control population is under 'terrorism fear' everyone is scared, and they dont really mind if they have to pass naked under the metal detector 'Its for your own safety'.

    They also violate almost all your rights, it is, again, "for your own safety", but it is, obviously, a very simple form of control.

    Locally, you can organize your community to (i dont remember the word in english, its something like 'disaprove' or 'not to comply', 'disable it in your community' ) So that you are not a victim of federal abuse.
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