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Thread: The U.n., Oil-for-food, And Saddam...

  1. #21
    j2k4's Avatar en(un)lightened
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    Quote:ilw:

    ...basically agree, I think as it stands the UN is useless in many ways, but its better than the alternative of not having it. It also suffers from the petty machinations of its member states' politicians who sometimes use it as a pawn in their domestic political struggles.

    How is a "useless" U.N. better than none at all?

    A U.N. which presumes to speak as the voice of reason, spewing platitudes from a mouth with no teeth?

    The U.N. needs to be freed of politics.

    This cannot be done, absent a scratch start.


    QUOTE
    This is, to my way of thinking, a very big story, one I have been aware of for over a month, and I posted about it, in a "details to come" fashion, when I first heard it.

    It garnered no attention whatsoever at the time, and, given the overall favorable opinion of the U.N. held by the majority of board members, I didn't waste any time wondering why.


    I think we have different ways of thinking, clearly this situation casts aspersions on the work of the UN, but it seems to me to have been an almost non-story in England and this may be part of the reason you haven't heard from us UN fanboys as much as you'd like. I think if you wanted to demonstrate that the UN is no good then i think you could have picked a better scandal to run it under, there are quite a few of them eg Rwanda and Kosovo.

    True enough, but Rwanda and Kosovo weren't problems created, fomented, or complicated by countries which were taking kickback money from backdoor deals; countries which would deny even the appearance of impropriety given their Security Council votes and their heretofore unknown actions.

    See the difference?
    "Researchers have already cast much darkness on the subject, and if they continue their investigations, we shall soon know nothing at all about it."

    -Mark Twain

  2. The Drawing Room   -   #22
    Biggles's Avatar Looking for loopholes
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    Shameless bump as Kofi Annan has just set the wheels of an inquiry in motion.

    It would seem in addition to kickbacks to some UN officials, the tentacles of corruption reach into a number of regular political circles too. It will be interesting to see how it all falls out.
    Cogito cogito ergo cogito sum


  3. The Drawing Room   -   #23
    j2k4's Avatar en(un)lightened
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    'Tis getting a bit frothy, eh?

    Let the games begin.
    "Researchers have already cast much darkness on the subject, and if they continue their investigations, we shall soon know nothing at all about it."

    -Mark Twain

  4. The Drawing Room   -   #24

  5. The Drawing Room   -   #25
    j2k4's Avatar en(un)lightened
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    Originally posted by sara5564@22 April 2004 - 16:44
    Hmmmmm very interesting



    http://www.theage.com.au/articles/2004/04/...2616268968.html
    Hi, Doc!

    Sounds like what I've been waiting for.

    Now, let's see if they really mean it; I would hate to come away with the cynical conclusion the results of an investigation were "sold" for future U.N. votes to avoid the diplomatic difficulty of embarrassing certain members of, say, the Security Council, or the Human Rights Council, or....
    "Researchers have already cast much darkness on the subject, and if they continue their investigations, we shall soon know nothing at all about it."

    -Mark Twain

  6. The Drawing Room   -   #26
    BigBank_Hank's Avatar Move It On Over
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    What should be the punishment of the ambassadors found guilty? Should they be thrown out of the security council?

    This is of course if any wrong doings are uncovered.

  7. The Drawing Room   -   #27
    j2k4's Avatar en(un)lightened
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    Originally posted by BigBank_Hank@22 April 2004 - 20:42
    What should be the punishment of the ambassadors found guilty? Should they be thrown out of the security council?

    This is of course if any wrong doings are uncovered.
    Therein lies the quandary:

    What to do?

    I doubt this will end with an disciplinary action against a nation proper, but sanctions (severe ones) against individuals should certainly be forthcoming.

    None of it will address the real problems at the U.N., however.
    "Researchers have already cast much darkness on the subject, and if they continue their investigations, we shall soon know nothing at all about it."

    -Mark Twain

  8. The Drawing Room   -   #28
    Biggles's Avatar Looking for loopholes
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    From a recent discussion I saw on the topic, it would appear that there are some interesting questions regarding how much the Security Council knew and for how long.

    The layers of this onion will take a bit of peeling, but I suspect it will not just be the UN that is embarrassed by this one (assuming the trail is not effectively blocked by interested parties.)

    With regards penalties, UN officials if proved implicated will undoubtedly lose careers and may face criminal charges - what will happen to individual Government and Business interests is anyone's guess (probably little or nothing.)
    Cogito cogito ergo cogito sum


  9. The Drawing Room   -   #29
    j2k4's Avatar en(un)lightened
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    Originally posted by Biggles@25 April 2004 - 12:11
    The layers of this onion will take a bit of peeling, but I suspect it will not just be the UN that is embarrassed by this one (assuming the trail is not effectively blocked by interested parties.)

    Let us await the former with interest, and bemoan (LOUDLY) the first sign of the latter.

    Biggles-

    I'd be terribly pleased to wait with you, I think there are still a few seats left in the front row?

    I'll make the popcorn.
    "Researchers have already cast much darkness on the subject, and if they continue their investigations, we shall soon know nothing at all about it."

    -Mark Twain

  10. The Drawing Room   -   #30
    j2k4's Avatar en(un)lightened
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    An update:

    Fugitive financier Marc Rich has been implicated in the scandal.

    Rich made headlines in 2000 by gaining a pardon from Bill Clinton as Clinton was leaving office, prompting expressions of outrage from every corner of the known universe.

    For those who don't remember who Bill Clinton is....
    "Researchers have already cast much darkness on the subject, and if they continue their investigations, we shall soon know nothing at all about it."

    -Mark Twain

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