Iraqi Abuse Photos Spark Shock

[lynx]

Originally posted by vidcc@30 April 2004 - 18:01
does anyone remember the eyebrow raising around the world at Bushes refusal to sign up to the International Criminal Court ? I thought at the time it was more to protect his own arse

ICC and immunity for Americans

I have just seen Bush on CNN and he is not backing away from this particular case, in fact he has condemed it, subject to confirmation of facts ( for once i agree 100 % .... the facts need to be confirmed first )

I agree that troops should be given certain protections from prosecution in conflict situations, however not from the sort of things that are alledged to have occured here.

If you believe the stories that Bush intended to invade Iraq right from the start it puts that decision in a whole new perspective, doesn't it.

[Rat Faced]

Like i said....

Let me make it clear though... every Army has its psycho's.

Those UK troops, and the American ones, have brought total disgrace to their respective Armies/Countries.

They were all trained on the Geneva Conventions and Rules of Engagement, there is no excuse...

In both Armies, Civil Law has precidence over Military Law, they broke the Law in Iraq....

I think they should all be locked up by the Iraqi authorities, in Iraqi jails, and see how they like it. If they broke the Law in Germany, they'd be in a German Jail now, Italian Law an Italian Jail......so why not?

'Course, im quite "liberal" that way......

[sArA]

Originally posted by Rat Faced@1 May 2004 - 13:48
Like i said....

Let me make it clear though... every Army has its psycho's.

Those UK troops, and the American ones, have brought total disgrace to their respective Armies/Countries.

They were all trained on the Geneva Conventions and Rules of Engagement, there is no excuse...

In both Armies, Civil Law has precidence over Military Law, they broke the Law in Iraq....

I think they should all be locked up by the Iraqi authorities, in Iraqi jails, and see how they like it. If they broke the Law in Germany, they'd be in a German Jail now, Italian Law an Italian Jail......so why not?

'Course, im quite "liberal" that way......

I agree here,



Pretty embarrassing state of affairs isn't it? As is usually the case in these stories, the odd bad apple is seen as representative of the whole barrell.

[BigBank_Hank]

Originally posted by Rat Faced@1 May 2004 - 08:48
'Course, im quite "liberal" that way......

I never had you figured to be liberal Rat

[chalice]

Obviously, these images are photoshopped. It is inconceivable that enlightened Westerners could commit such attrocities.

It reminds me of the lies I heard, first hand, of how Bristish Soldiers tortured untried Northern Irish suspects during internment.

Oh, how we laughed when Uncle Kevin recounted the adventure he had while having been dropped out of a helicopter (blindfolded) six feet off the ground. Or when Uncle Brendan regailled us with his escapades of his naked testicles being pushed against scorching radiators. These are only the offences that I have inccurred within my family. I could go on ad nauseum with the stories I've heard.

I would submit that visciousness is a military endemic. Especially within the dubious ranks of the Paras and the SAS.

I honestly believe that this kind of brutality is quite institutional.

[Rat Faced]

Some of the SAS do that to the other British Troops on excercise....

I was once stripped down to my pants and put on the edge of a "cliff", just standing there by my heels.... luckily it was only a 1' drop, and i "knew" that in my head..i mean they wouldnt, would they?

...still scared the crap outa me





My "crime" was getting caught... and i wasnt even on their bloody excercise...




This apart though, please believe me when i say that it is a minority of psychos, with another minority of "peers" that go along with them (and when seperated from their "friends" havent the guts to instigate themselves)...

The vast majority are normal people, and the vast majority of mishaps are accidents that happen under pressure, not planned "torture" that these civilians underwent.

Even the majority of these physco's will not risk "physical" torture, they go with mental humiliation and putting the fear of God into their victims.

[Biggles]

This is a major shame. Things are pretty damn hard over there as it is without having to fight a rear guard credibility action.

Whether this problem is endemic or simply isolated to a few dozen individuals is probably no longer relevant. Images of women humiliating Iraqi men have been beamed around the whole of the Arab world. Iraqi manhood has been called into question in front of their neighbours, friends and rivals.

It is probably too early to say what damage these clowns have done, but George Bush's anger would suggest that his advisors have told him it is considerable. Ironically, these soldiers have probably done more damage to US interests in the region than AQ, the Iraqi insurgants and the whole of the anti war movement (i.e. most of the rest of the world) put together.

I thought at the outset that this war was ill advised and have not seen anything yet to change my mind, but we are there for the duration now whether we like it or not and this has just made things really really hard.

[Snee]

EDit: had it wrong, or at least i can't find it now.

The prisoners were to be broken and demoralised, presumably to facilitate interrogation.
And only in block "A1" or somesuch. I don't get why it was done in the first place.

EDit: again, did hear a radio broadcast, where it was said that this was reported much earlier by soldiers present.

[james_bond_rulez]

Western societies, civilized or not, are still consisted of humans, they are just as fallible as people from developing countries and undeveloped countries.

In war, people do all kinds of nasty stuff to other human beings. Americans soldiers got humilated and dragged around the street and displayed as trophies. American prison officiers and the army secretly torturing Iraqis prisoners illegally.

Who is to say who is right and who is wrong?

We are all sinners.

[Ariel_001]

Does anyone see something wrong with this?



That head does not look right. I think it has ben pasted there.